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Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.03.31 02:28:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 31/03/2008 15:33:00

I've always appreciated the work and honesty with which BIG has done its thing for EVE at large and respect the job it has done for the EVE community.

That said I think that while BIG does expand EVE in unique and interesting ways BIG is not in it because they are altruistic. The bottom line is BIG is a self-serving entity that happens to provide a unique EVE service. While that is totally fine I am not sure it waves a magic wand that implies your motives are nothing but for the betterment of EVE.

As candidates started announcing their candidacy I started to wonder to myself where these folks have come from. In case I missed something I took to looking up their posting history and here is yours.

I want to see candidates who have been fighting the good fight long before CSM and a free trip to Iceland was on offer. Your posting history tells me you have done no such thing. If we take away the postings in Events (which are BIG specific) your posting history goes in the crapper. Lots of CAOD posts...doesn't really get interesting as for the overall community till your posts to Market Discussions and those are thin when spread across the years. I looked at your GD postings and looks like you made five in all of 2007.

I'll grant GD can be a hassle with trolls and what not but nevertheless some spend time trying to throw out ideas and discuss issues. They place themselves on the line and take what comes. Some ideas are good, some bad, plenty of flames but many stay with it.

Your lack of GD/Ships & Mods and other gameplay related forum posts I find disturbing. Now I cannot see what ideas you have floated or how you handled the inevitable flames. I do not doubt your sincerity in your campaign website but mostly it is kissing babies and glad-handing.

I want someone on the CSM who has proven themselves in trying to better EVE long before trips to Iceland were a part of it. Part of that is the EVE forums and I am sorry to say your attempts there are sorely lacking. Looks like another Alliance interested in nothing beyond their own, narrow world in EVE.

On the upside for you this lack of posting history is not unique to you and although it concerns me more than a little at least you have a golden reputation for honest gameplay. That is no small thing in my view.

So I will wait and see. Best of luck to you just the same.

Tassadar Beta
Amarr
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
Posted - 2008.03.31 15:01:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Tassadar Beta on 31/03/2008 15:07:32
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I want someone on the CSM who has proven themselves in trying to better EVE long before trips to Iceland were a part of it. Part of that is the EVE forums and I am sorry to say your attempts there are sorely lacking. Looks like another Alliance interested in nothing beyond their own, narrow world in EVE.


While posting on the forums may be part of a candidates appeal I don't think it is necessary. Being loud and easy to spot on the forums can be annoying as it can be informative. I think TS would make a good CSM as he is intelligent and well thought out with his ideas. He can come up with weird and wacky ideas that upon discussion don't come to fruition. Or they get changed based upon other peoples suggestions at least he does within our corporation. I believe that shows someone who can accept constructive criticism and as such may make a few more posts, I don't know Wink.

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
On the upside for you this lack of posting history is not unique to you and it concerns me more than a little and at least you have a golden reputation for honest gameplay. That is no small thing in my view.


I know more than most people that TS is a trustworthy, honest and straight up guy so I agree with you there, they are often rare commodities in EvE. I'm sure people can point at mistakes he has made but I'm sure the same can be said of everyone.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.03.31 15:31:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 31/03/2008 15:34:01
Originally by: Tassadar Beta
Edited by: Tassadar Beta on 31/03/2008 15:07:32
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I want someone on the CSM who has proven themselves in trying to better EVE long before trips to Iceland were a part of it. Part of that is the EVE forums and I am sorry to say your attempts there are sorely lacking. Looks like another Alliance interested in nothing beyond their own, narrow world in EVE.


While posting on the forums may be part of a candidates appeal I don't think it is necessary. Being loud and easy to spot on the forums can be annoying as it can be informative. I think TS would make a good CSM as he is intelligent and well thought out with his ideas. He can come up with weird and wacky ideas that upon discussion don't come to fruition. Or they get changed based upon other peoples suggestions at least he does within our corporation. I believe that shows someone who can accept constructive criticism and as such may make a few more posts, I don't know Wink.



Well, I am not interested in folks who are just "loud" on the forums. Some can and do provide well thought out posts that aim to improve EVE overall. Some ideas are crap, some good, many need tweaks and that is all fine. The point is if TS has this wealth of ideas I would have liked to have seen them on the forums. Weird and wacky or not it is all good. Often just the kernel of a good idea is enough to get fleshed out by the community to something that works.

TS (and to be fair other candidates) are advertising their desire for a better EVE but till now they seem to have mostly kept these pearls of wisdom to themselves. Supposedly CCP reads the forums and will pay attention to good ideas. I'm not so sure they really do as I have seen numerous great ideas come and go with nothing from CCP (heck, people were pining for sec cans to get cleaned up and everyone liked the idea...only took CCP 3 years to get around to it). Nevertheless I think a candidate's bona fides for their concern for EVE would be better served with a track record of trying such than what amounts to an advert and just hoping they actually have a clue.

Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.31 17:29:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
Well, I am not interested in folks who are just "loud" on the forums. Some can and do provide well thought out posts that aim to improve EVE overall. Some ideas are crap, some good, many need tweaks and that is all fine. The point is if TS has this wealth of ideas I would have liked to have seen them on the forums. Weird and wacky or not it is all good. Often just the kernel of a good idea is enough to get fleshed out by the community to something that works.

TS (and to be fair other candidates) are advertising their desire for a better EVE but till now they seem to have mostly kept these pearls of wisdom to themselves.


Unfortunately, those who have good ideas don't seem interested in this CSM thing. Probably because it requires travel, revealing RL info, and more work than neccessary.

For me, the best candidate would be one who's had it with CCP's crap and would be almost hostile towards them, not with language, but in pursuing the issues and making sure that stuff finally gets done. Determining what the issues are is somewhat easy: take any thread that reaches 10+ pages in 2 days, and there's an issue being discussed in there. The problem is getting CCP to do anything about it fast.

I hate their "Soon" policies.
I hate that we still have this overview bug that hasn't been fixed yet.

Burnharder
Posted - 2008.03.31 17:34:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
My application for the CSM has been submitted.

Campaign website is available - Go check it out.

The purpose of this thread, apart from making my candidateship known, is to answer any questions people might have before casting their votes.

So fire away Razz



It was fun podding you in TPAR as you left the station back when we were in CFS. If you win the CSM, Will you make yourself available for further podding at some point in the future?

Omber Zombie
Gallente
Frontier Technologies
Posted - 2008.03.31 20:17:00 - [36]
 

welcome to the party Very Happy

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.01 17:13:00 - [37]
 

@Imperator Jora'h

First of, thank you for the many kind words (interwoven with the rest)
I appriciate those more than you perhaps know.

--

Free trip to Iceland... Tbh it's an inconvinience for me, as, if elected, I'd have to take some days of work.
And I've been to Iceland already (FF´06 & FF´07) so the free trip is more in the con than the pro category for me unfortunatly.

---

Forum posting. Valid facts mentioned.
If you plan to, or already have, it would be pretty cool if you could do the same evaluation for the other candidates. I find it interesting.

Another fact : Once I used to have one of the highest post counts on these forums (top 5 or top 10) - Thats however some years ago (when post counts where listed).
While I don't post as much as I used to, I still read, and read and read...
But most often I don't have anything _new_ to add to a thread that is already 2-4 pages long.
And unlike many on these forums, I actually bother to read all posts in a thread, excactly to not add the same things over and over (as many does these days...)
Thats at least part reason. It's at least the best reason I can give you (in a short manner).

---

I would also like to point out (and that goes to others in this thread as well) that the job of the CSM is to _listen_ (ie. read) to what everyone else are saying.

The CSM are not supposed to be the ones with the solutions for everything.
They are supposed to _represent_ everyone else, and (hopefully) wisely pick those topics that are the "hottest" to present to CCP.
This doesnt exclude the CSM members of having ideas of their own ofc, and spheres of interest.

And I've simply listed my spheres of interest, so that people will know that I would probably be a good person to "lobby" for changes/additions in those areas (should I get elected).

Originally by: Letouk Mernel

For me, the best candidate would be one who's had it with CCP's crap and would be almost hostile towards them, not with language, but in pursuing the issues and making sure that stuff finally gets done.


Well, as I write on my campaign website, I am known for beeing pretty stubborn (or *erherm* willfast/principled )Wink
I wouldnt call it hostile, but I'll definatly not stand for any nilly-willy answers from CCP.
It better be well founded argumentation, based on provable facts, or I'll simply push the paper back over the table and have them redo it.
And if they refuse, I'll definatly make it known to the public.
That much I can promise you.

----------------

Hi to

Ankhesentapemkah
Jade Constantine
Omber Zombie

Looking forward to the race Razz

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.01 17:15:00 - [38]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 01/04/2008 17:16:45
@Zenst

I have a wet dream that roughly looks something like this

Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.
It should be self evident what it shows - And I'm not going to spend alot of thought on it here, unless by demand.

As I honestly dont see CCP ever going that far - Or in fact most people wanting them to (as it would upset all kinds of current power balances and stakes on space and what not - But it's how EVE *should* have been made imo)


Letouk Mernel
Caldari
Posted - 2008.04.01 18:15:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 01/04/2008 18:21:18
Edited by: Letouk Mernel on 01/04/2008 18:17:41
Originally by: TornSoul
I would also like to point out (and that goes to others in this thread as well) that the job of the CSM is to _listen_ (ie. read) to what everyone else are saying.



I disagree.

First of all, most CSM candidates point out how much they know about the game, etc. If you (CSM people) only needed to _listen_, why would you need that knowledge? Just jot down whatever we're saying and pass it on to CCP, simple no? Anyone could be CSM.

I think you need to participate. In any discussion on the forums here, we're trying to convince each other of various points and nuances related to whatever topic. And it's better for us to convince you that what we're saying makes sense than it is for you to just copy it down to give it to CCP without caring about or understanding the details. I'd rather argue with you than write "TornSoul, give this to CCP: blah blah blah. And bring back an answer."

Besides, sometimes a "this won't work because of X reason" is just as valid coming from you as it is coming from CCP, since you have all that experience with the game and can tell what works and what doesn't. We don't need to wait for CCP to tell us that they won't add Arkonor roids to lowsec, for example, you can explain just as well as they can why that's not balanced and won't be added, should a discussion about it spring up.

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.01 18:33:00 - [40]
 

I agree experience and knowledge is important attributes for CSM members
Which is excactly why I also said
Originally by: TornSoul

They are supposed to _represent_ everyone else, and (hopefully) wisely pick those topics that are the "hottest" to present to CCP.



I didnt intend to imply that the CSM should simply take anything thrown at them and present to CCP without giving it some thought and giving some feedback themself as well.

In fact I believe that feedback will be the main factor by wich the CSM members ultimatly will be judged.

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.04.01 18:51:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Imperator Jora''h on 01/04/2008 18:55:14
Originally by: TornSoul
Forum posting. Valid facts mentioned.
If you plan to, or already have, it would be pretty cool if you could do the same evaluation for the other candidates. I find it interesting.


I implied in my earlier posts in this thread that I have done that and considered listing them here as well. But it seemed this thread was about you so I did not deem it appropriate to expand it to include your opponents in here. Actually it was another candidate that got me checking up because from my view it seemed they sort of appeared out of nowhere. I appreciate the addition of more calm and well reasoned voices on the forums. I just wish they had been around more and found the reason they now appeared was for the CSM. Why not before if they are so interested in EVE?

Quote:
Another fact : Once I used to have one of the highest post counts on these forums (top 5 or top 10) - Thats however some years ago (when post counts where listed).
While I don't post as much as I used to, I still read, and read and read...
But most often I don't have anything _new_ to add to a thread that is already 2-4 pages long.
And unlike many on these forums, I actually bother to read all posts in a thread, excactly to not add the same things over and over (as many does these days...)
Thats at least part reason. It's at least the best reason I can give you (in a short manner).


Well, it is not necessarily repeating when responding to a lengthy thread. Your voice can be used to further debunk an idea or to support it (with new arguments or just a vote as it were for the idea) or you can modify the idea and bend it a different direction based on what others have written.

Quote:
I would also like to point out (and that goes to others in this thread as well) that the job of the CSM is to _listen_ (ie. read) to what everyone else are saying.

The CSM are not supposed to be the ones with the solutions for everything.
They are supposed to _represent_ everyone else, and (hopefully) wisely pick those topics that are the "hottest" to present to CCP.
This doesnt exclude the CSM members of having ideas of their own ofc, and spheres of interest.


Well, you are correct CSM should listen but presumably the CSM members are elder statesmen of EVE who can sort through the muck and recognize the gems to present to CCP. It is fine and indeed good if they present ideas of their own for consideration. This shows the rest of us the thrust of their thinking and how they handle themselves in the face of flames and their willingness to modify their ideas as more information and new ideas are offered. For instance if someone was just *sure* that CONCORD should be in every system a and will not bend from that view I think it is safe to say we would not want to see that person on the CSM (I am not implying you do, just using an extreme to illustrate the idea).

Not trying to be a pain here but with no posting history to speak of along those lines how are we really to judge?

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.01 19:00:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I implied in my earlier posts in this thread that I have done that and considered listing them here as well. But it seemed this thread was about you so I did not deem it appropriate to expand it to include your opponents in here.

I was thinking along the lines of perhaps putting it in Winterblinks thread, with a post for each candiate, that could then be linked to along with the other links - and perhaps Serenity Steele will pick it up as well Wink


Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.04.01 19:14:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I implied in my earlier posts in this thread that I have done that and considered listing them here as well. But it seemed this thread was about you so I did not deem it appropriate to expand it to include your opponents in here.

I was thinking along the lines of perhaps putting it in Winterblinks thread, with a post for each candiate, that could then be linked to along with the other links - and perhaps Serenity Steele will pick it up as well Wink




Good idea...I had not considered that. I was waiting for the other candidates to stick their necks out here for me have at. Wink

Serenity Steele
Dynamic Data Distribution
Posted - 2008.04.02 20:24:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h
I implied in my earlier posts in this thread that I have done that and considered listing them here as well. But it seemed this thread was about you so I did not deem it appropriate to expand it to include your opponents in here.

I was thinking along the lines of perhaps putting it in Winterblinks thread, with a post for each candiate, that could then be linked to along with the other links - and perhaps Serenity Steele will pick it up as well Wink


The "Forum Stats" were added to all candidates on Monday night Wink
Now if I could just get XML of those stats and show it in a graph ...


TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.02 20:58:00 - [45]
 

Yeah I saw that Steele.

However, what Imperator Jora'h did was more of a qualitative analysis of the numbers, rather than just listing them.

The quantitative listings you've provided (via EVE-search) are handy as well - Not taking away from that at all.

But I'd like to see the qualitative analysis for the others as well ;)) I find it interesting ;)


Athre
Minmatar
The Higher Standard
Posted - 2008.04.02 22:34:00 - [46]
 

This is going to be hard to pick. I agree with the agenda you are putting for the Torn. Luck to you.


Voltaire Leriel
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.03 05:12:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Voltaire Leriel on 03/04/2008 11:14:15
Good luck, Torn.

Me and TS go way back, we've built BIG together as a team. Me behind the scenes with all the crazy ideas and him in the foreground being steady and cautious.

I know Torn personally as a reliable and level-headed person. He's not going to storm into CCP with ideas for sweeping and ultimately unrealistic changes. He'll be able to get the job done, I think, better than anyone.

I think that his campaign website is a prime example of his ability to be realistic about what he can accomplish and how he plans to accomplish it.

I'm of course about as biased as one could be, but wouldn't you be biased if your best friend ran for election?

BIG and TornSoul both care very much about this game, we've built up a family around it whose ties run deep. We regularly meet in Iceland for FanFest, having a large percentage of our members attend both '06 and '07.

As for the old website's record of TornSoul being a member since 2002, I believe that TornSoul founded BIG as soon as he found out what EVE was, long before beta even started. So BIG has existed as a group since long before the game was released, through beta, from the very beginning until the present.

He's watched the game develop from the start and I think has a good grounding in what EVE was meant to be, and where it can feasibly go.

And as far as anything Soul of Fountain has done, we've just joined so I'm sorry if you've had misgivings about them - but we've only been in the group for a few days.

TornSoul isn't that active on these forums for two good reasons. First of all because BIG's forums are quite active in themselves and tough to keep up with. Second because the trolling in these forums can be so intense as to drown out any real discussion about basically anything. Me and Torn have both felt that one of the best places to discuss anything about EVE in a civilized manner is to be at FanFest drinking beer :P

People with long forum resumes or a history of combat experience does not automatically make them a good candidate. You've gotta look at the whole picture, you're not sending a character to Iceland, you're sending a person. And you don't want that person to be nothing more than just an angry nerd or obsessed combat pilot with lots of time to kill. Just because that character has been loud on the forums and gotten many kills in-game does not make them the best person to guide CCP in developing EVE.

I don't think it really matters much that he's not been engaged with the Ships & Modules forum. Is mere ship balance or module fitting issues the only thing that you're concerned with in this game? There is a lot more to EVE than ships and shooting! I like my share of pew-pew, but this is a have with far more levels.

People only have so much time an attention to spend on a game in the first place, and you can't be everywhere at once - on all of the forums, all the fan sites, running a corp, being in-game, having a social life and a job IRL.

PS: we were never in CFS. We were in FA, who conquered CFS space (and were subsequently booted out).

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.06 19:24:00 - [48]
 

It would seem Volt silenced everyone Wink

There must be more people though, who would like to know my stance/interest on this or that subject though?

Or something completly different... ?


Neermark
x13
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.04.06 21:24:00 - [49]
 

Er du dansk ?

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2008.04.07 03:59:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Neermark
Er du dansk ?

Tjah, mit bud er at danskerne vil overtage CSM. Shocked

eldiabloroho
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.04.07 06:53:00 - [51]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Maliendan
Posted - 2008.04.07 07:07:00 - [52]
 

## Last but not least : The stuff that really really needs to be fixed, because it's outright broken.


Can you name 3 or more outright broken things with the game currently?


TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.07 17:46:00 - [53]
 

Ja - Jeg er dansk Razz

And I'll be at the Gankaton this comming saterday Twisted Evil

-

3 broken things, at the top of my head :

Territorial warfare (POS warfare beeing just one aspect of this - But probably the most "visible"/moaned about thing)

Jumpgate/lane distribution (Leading to such things as Jita)

A myriad of GUI stuff/menus/interfaces that really should be fixed... (admittedly, few are "game breaking" but still...)


Wu Jiun
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.04.07 18:50:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
Edited by: TornSoul on 01/04/2008 17:16:45
@Zenst

I have a wet dream that roughly looks something like this

It should be self evident what it shows - And I'm not going to spend alot of thought on it here, unless by demand.

As I honestly dont see CCP ever going that far - Or in fact most people wanting them to (as it would upset all kinds of current power balances and stakes on space and what not - But it's how EVE *should* have been made imo)




Ermm... okay call me stupid but i don't think its self evident. Will you elaborate?

Or is it to say empires should be spatially divided by lowsec/nullsec? Oh if so then that is hot...

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.07 20:00:00 - [55]
 

Edited by: TornSoul on 07/04/2008 20:03:08
Originally by: Wu Jiun

Or is it to say empires should be spatially divided by lowsec/nullsec? Oh if so then that is hot...


Self evident after all then Wink

I could write page after page after page after page, about all the Good Stuff(tm) such a distribution would do, and fascilitate in EVE.

But again... Way to radical...
I don't see the majority of the player bases wanting it.
I don't see CCP wanting it (or rather, deal with the outraged player base if forcing the change)

Too radical - Is why it's just my wet dream Wink


Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.04.07 20:27:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Voltaire Leriel
TornSoul isn't that active on these forums for two good reasons. First of all because BIG's forums are quite active in themselves and tough to keep up with. Second because the trolling in these forums can be so intense as to drown out any real discussion about basically anything. Me and Torn have both felt that one of the best places to discuss anything about EVE in a civilized manner is to be at FanFest drinking beer :P

People with long forum resumes or a history of combat experience does not automatically make them a good candidate. You've gotta look at the whole picture, you're not sending a character to Iceland, you're sending a person. And you don't want that person to be nothing more than just an angry nerd or obsessed combat pilot with lots of time to kill. Just because that character has been loud on the forums and gotten many kills in-game does not make them the best person to guide CCP in developing EVE.

I don't think it really matters much that he's not been engaged with the Ships & Modules forum. Is mere ship balance or module fitting issues the only thing that you're concerned with in this game? There is a lot more to EVE than ships and shooting! I like my share of pew-pew, but this is a have with far more levels.

People only have so much time an attention to spend on a game in the first place, and you can't be everywhere at once - on all of the forums, all the fan sites, running a corp, being in-game, having a social life and a job IRL.


If TS does not have time for EVE Forums why should anyone suppose he has time for CSM? He certainly had time to promote BIG stuff on the forums.

If TS cannot stand the trolling why should anyone suppose he is now able to stomach it? What about the inevitable trolls that will pound on the CSM?

Having a forum history does not make a good candidate but it does give people here and ability to see who the candidate is. What they are about. What ideas they support and how they respond to varying ideas and people.

We just have to go with you and a few other peoples' opinion that TS is a really good guy. He probably is but I would really like to have seen someone who exhibited a concern and put in an effort to make EVE better before the CSM came on the scene. If not for the CSM I think it is safe to assume we'd never see any of TS's ideas.

Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2008.04.07 21:10:00 - [57]
 

Really not going to vote for someone running a lottery.

TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.07 21:15:00 - [58]
 

Erherm...

"TornSoul isn't that active on these forums" doesnt equal
"If TS does not have time for EVE Forums"

I've already said that I read a humongous amount of posts on the EVE forums
I'd say I spend an average of 1h a day, give and take, keeping up-to-date on various topics of interest - And watching for new interesting posts/trends.

I'm (no longer) the most prolific poster around (aka "active on these forums"), granted. I (mostly) prefer to listen (read), and internalize what's going on - For that BIG picture feel...

Most issues have most sides debated to death by thousand of other people.
While I understand where you're comming from (with regards to knowing "who I am"), I simply don't (or rarely) have the urge to repeat what has already been said, just to say "see me, I *also* think X", on issues 1 through 5000. I'm sorry but that just doesnt ring my bell.

If it makes no difference if I make a comment to a post or not, I (usually) prefer not to make it.

I prefer to make my opinion known where I feel it either makes a difference or add's something new.

The frequency of this seems to not be to your personal liking - So be it.

Will it mean I won't get enough votes - Maybe. So be it.

============

You said
I've always appreciated the work and honesty with which BIG has done its thing for EVE at large and respect the job it has done for the EVE community.

And now you say
"I would really like to have seen someone who exhibited a concern and put in an effort to make EVE better before the CSM came on the scene. If not for the CSM I think it is safe to assume we'd never see any of TS's ideas."

Those don't equate...

One paragraph is about BIG, the other about me specifically (and honestly... Saying I haven't done anything for EVE before the CSM... Rolling Eyes)

Those two go very much hand in hand though... So what you say about one, goes for the other as well, to an extreme degree.

So both can't be correct.



TornSoul
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2008.04.07 21:18:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel
Really not going to vote for someone running a lottery.

(I'll take the bait...)

Why on earth not?

I'd be very intersted in you elaborating on that - Seriously.





Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.04.07 21:36:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: TornSoul
You said
I've always appreciated the work and honesty with which BIG has done its thing for EVE at large and respect the job it has done for the EVE community.

And now you say
"I would really like to have seen someone who exhibited a concern and put in an effort to make EVE better before the CSM came on the scene. If not for the CSM I think it is safe to assume we'd never see any of TS's ideas."

Those don't equate...

One paragraph is about BIG, the other about me specifically (and honestly... Saying I haven't done anything for EVE before the CSM... Rolling Eyes)

Those two go very much hand in hand though... So what you say about one, goes for the other as well, to an extreme degree.

So both can't be correct.


I do not think those two statements are at odds.

First though realize my last post was debunking the notions I quoted in that post.

As to what you said BIG has expanded EVE in interesting directions. But as I noted before it did so entirely for its own benefit. That is 100% fine and cool. EVE as a whole benefitted from what BIG does but it is not altruism that drives BIG.

TornSoul as a CSM candidate is a different matter. While pointing to what you did with BIG is worth noting it is not the whole answer. TornSoul is not a BIG representative in CSM. TornSoul is supposed to be a representative of all the players of EVE on the CSM.

What happens if an idea comes before the CSM to propose to CCP that is contrary to BIG's interests? If you had posted in the past I and others would have a sense if you will argue for changes that you feel are overall better for EVE or if you will protect your corner of it. You can see this clearly in many threads from other people (some few will argue for a better EVE, most will kick and scream if you mess with whatever it is no matter how unbalanced).

I find the notion that you do not reply because all you have to say has already been said puzzling. Surely you have some spipn to offer to an idea. Or lend support for a really good idea so maybe CCP will pay attention. Or have a new idea all your own you would like vetted on the forums. You certainly seem a bright guy and it sounds like you have lots of ideas. I for one would have liked to hear them and discuss them.

I am merely noting I have no good way to assess the above. I also noted before there are some others running who are equally lacking in this department so I'll have to wait and see (and I do mean to point this out in the CSM candidate thread when I get some time). I know it looks like I am here to bust your balls but that really is not my intent.


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