open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked What part of "cold, uncaring universe" do you not understand - CCP?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:51:00 - [1]
 

Insurance payout after Concordoken?

My oh my, what a loving and caring world.
Makes my heart go soft.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:54:00 - [2]
 

Yay, cause we really needed another thread on this Neutral

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:54:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Rawr Cristina
Yay, cause we really needed another thread on this Neutral


A change is overdue. Until then, whatever.

Kylar Renpurs
Dusk Blade
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:06:00 - [4]
 

I like the risk of suicide ganking being there, but I agree with dropping insurance. It's a shocking ISK injector, and while people argue "Oh, there's zero risk to people hauling round and making their ISK in hi sec, it's about time they felt the sharp end of a blade" that's obviously not the case anymore with suicide ganking being the obvious risk there.

Being able to churn out a suicide-ganking ship for less than 10 mil (ship cost + insurance is 5 mil less than total purchase, then add fittings) is obviously way out of whack.

Ironically, if CCP nerfed insurance way back before sucide gankings were as prolific as they are now, nobody would've given a flying ****. Now, if CCP nerfs insurance, everyone (suicide gankers anyway) will be up in arms about it.

Rock, hard place, you know the rest.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:09:00 - [5]
 


Insurance needs looked at.

Assassination should be possible in hisec it just shouldn't be that risk free.

Criminality needs Darwinism too.

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:13:00 - [6]
 

I agree, what insurance company would continue to insure paper-thin industrial ships with no protection? Good suggestion. If the value of your cargo is more than 2x the value of your ship + modules, then no insurance should be paid out.

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:14:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Kylar Renpurs
Ironically, if CCP nerfed insurance way back before sucide gankings were as prolific as they are now, nobody would've given a flying ****. Now, if CCP nerfs insurance, everyone (suicide gankers anyway) will be up in arms about it.


Would they? If the gankers are not just hot talking potatoes, they would love to see insurance get removed when killed by Concord. They like the toughness of EVE afterall, dont they?

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:17:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp
I agree, what insurance company would continue to insure paper-thin industrial ships with no protection? Good suggestion. If the value of your cargo is more than 2x the value of your ship + modules, then no insurance should be paid out.


Who cares? With the exception of freighters, industrial ships give peanuts for insurance payout anyway. I never even insure mine...

Anubis Xian
Ministry of War
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:18:00 - [9]
 

Insurance is not needed. It just dilutes the economy.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:36:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Insurance payout after Concordoken?

My oh my, what a loving and caring world.
Makes my heart go soft.


Isn't it time for you to post a ridiculous thread about perhaps changing the game without any reasoning? Oh....wait.

WineOh
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:41:00 - [11]
 

it makes sense, if you break the law and have a shoot out with the cops and your car gets damaged, do you think your insurance company would pay out to fix it?

Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.27 11:51:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Dianeces
Isn't it time for you to post a ridiculous thread about perhaps changing the game without any reasoning? Oh....wait.


The reasoning is apparent and sound, whereas your post is entirely devoid of it.

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:18:00 - [13]
 

I was just thinking that we didn't have enough suicide ganking threads.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:31:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Insurance payout after Concordoken?

My oh my, what a loving and caring world.
Makes my heart go soft.


The problem is, removing it will not fix suicide ganking, and will hurt people who get killed by Concord because of a mistake / lag.

It is a very weak, knee-jerk proposal, which lots of people have latched on to because of the apparent unfairness (whereas in reality the system is perfectly fair, and that is what people actually hate) of criminals being paid insurance.

Looking for punishment from the game mechanics is understandable, but ultimately futile.
If tools are available to mitigate the risks to the victim, they should be expected to use them.
If they take all reasonable steps, and yet the risk is still unfairly high, then the tools need balancing, or new ones added.

Punitive punishment will serve to do more harm than good.

Gaven Blands
Caldari
Cosmic Fusion
Systematic-Chaos
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:51:00 - [15]
 

What has lead to this explosion of misguided threads?

Could it be...... STEAM?

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:00:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Insurance payout after Concordoken?

My oh my, what a loving and caring world.
Makes my heart go soft.
Just think about it, if there was no insurance after Concordoken, would there be so many suicide gankers tirelessly working on making your life miserable, to give you that fulfilling sense of cold and uncaring world?

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:18:00 - [17]
 

Edited by: Tarminic on 27/03/2008 14:19:30
Originally by: Gaven Blands
What has lead to this explosion of misguided threads?

Could it be...... STEAM?

No, Soulita has been posting misguided threads for quite some time now.

EDIT: See here

Exlegion
Caldari
Salva Veritate
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:24:00 - [18]
 

Insurance adds a nice dimension to the game and I'd hate to see CCP do away with it completely. However, it definitely needs a revision.


Zarin
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:27:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp
I agree, what insurance company would continue to insure paper-thin industrial ships with no protection? Good suggestion. If the value of your cargo is more than 2x the value of your ship + modules, then no insurance should be paid out.


If this were closer to reality there would be more heavily HP buffered haulers available, people would have worked it out and there would be T3 haulers, whose only advantage would be that they could tank alot of fire over a short period of time. They might be expensive, but they would be near impossible to gank. As it stands the firepower has increased greatly and the cost to bring that firepower to bear has decreased but there has been no real change to the surviveability of the transports.

Quote:
The problem is, removing it will not fix suicide ganking, and will hurt people who get killed by Concord because of a mistake / lag.


I don't think anyone wants to 'fix' suicide ganking, they just want it to be reserved for:
a) people that have ****ed other people off
b) people that carry way too much isk worth of cargo in ships not designed for it.

As opposed to the current situation where it's used against
- People that are carrying a reasonable cargo, who are warping to zero and at the keyboard in ships designed to avoid being ganked, but are unable to do anything vs the gankers until after it is too late. While the gankers get a negligible sec status hit, and a negligible financial penalty. When it's a reliable way of making huge sums of isk, it's a problem.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:28:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: Dianeces
Isn't it time for you to post a ridiculous thread about perhaps changing the game without any reasoning? Oh....wait.


The reasoning is apparent and sound, whereas your post is entirely devoid of it.


Hahaha. There is no reasoning in the OP. Also, you are a terrible troll.

JoDirt
Infinite Improbability Inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:29:00 - [21]
 

and while you're at it, can you look at insurance for T2 ships. I think a better payout would make everyone happy. well except the masochist. Laughing

Amarth Thargan
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:31:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Amarth Thargan on 27/03/2008 14:32:17
get fired and become unable to pay the bills, lose a friend in a car-accident, get beaten-up and left to die, move to a war-zone, get abused, be betrayed by your partner and best friend, have your kid die of an overdose...

This is a game, there is nothing cold or uncaring about it, nor should it be. Normal people play games to forget the real world, not to show how though they are by virtualy living in a cold and uncaring gamingverse.

Suicide Ganking vs Insurance Pay-Out is part of the game-mechanics (broken maybe), I can't stress "game" enough. The piracy vs trade thing is a simple choice than can always be reversed. Getting shot up doesn't cost you anything, you lose nothing, as this is a game, like in not real but made for fun.
If you feel that you lose a part of yourself when pixels go from drab brown to bright yellow and some red then get some proper threatment.

Cheers for those who realise this is a game, pitty for those who think that all this really matters.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:39:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Soulita
Insurance payout after Concordoken?

My oh my, what a loving and caring world.
Makes my heart go soft.


Unlimited free invincible NPCs to make any nasty men go away if they hurt you?

Yes, you're right. We should get rid of CONCORD, or at least reform them. Perhaps they should start charging for their services?

Inconstant Moon
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:43:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Dianeces
you are a terrible troll.


I take my time to write constructive replies, although I admit I lose my cool very occasionally when goaded by baiters such as yourself. As your contributions to this forum are mostly one-line insults, I think you are actually the troll.

Overwhelmed
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:43:00 - [25]
 

Congratulations on starting a new thread with an idea that has been stated a thousand times already.

Zarin
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:43:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
Unlimited free invincible NPCs to make any nasty men go away if they hurt you?

Yes, you're right. We should get rid of CONCORD, or at least reform them. Perhaps they should start charging for their services?


That's a great idea, they should charge for their services, like traffic cops, guess who they charge?

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 15:02:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Zarin
Originally by: Malcanis
Unlimited free invincible NPCs to make any nasty men go away if they hurt you?

Yes, you're right. We should get rid of CONCORD, or at least reform them. Perhaps they should start charging for their services?


That's a great idea, they should charge for their services, like traffic cops, guess who they charge?


The answer to this question is right there on your local government tax bill.

Of course, if they're not supported by taxation, well, limited resources and all that. They might have to start prioritising at little. And EvE being the nasty corrupt place that it is, well who could blame these guys for maybe coming to the aid of their best contributers, I mean friends a little quicker.

How about this system: instead of taxes, you pay for a week of CONCORD protection, and you get to choose the level of your protection, just like you can choose your level of ship insurance.

Insurance level Protection
No cover plan CONCORD don't give a **** about you. Faction
. police and gate guns are all you get, cheapskate.

Basic cover plan CONCORD will help - eventually. They take 50%
. longer to arrive. Hope you make it.

Standard cover plan CONCORD will help - as soon as they can. As now.

Premium cover plan CONCORD will help - and you're their buddy! They
. take 10% less time to arrive than usual.

VIP cover plan CONCORD will help - and you're the Captain's buddy
. They take 25% less time to arrive than usual.


Basic cover should only cost a few mill a week. Call it 5M, and you get 2 weeks free when you start the game. Standard gets a little more expensive: you gotta find 10M a week to maintain a good relationship. Premium, well those CONCORD guys don't impress easily, and they don't hurry up for less than 25M a week. VIP? Well if you want to be very important to these guys, you'd better be very generous to them as well. 100M a week will keep friendships alive.

Soulita
Gallente
Inner Core
Posted - 2008.03.27 15:37:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Soulita on 27/03/2008 15:46:13
Originally by: Avon
The problem is, removing it (insurance payout) will not fix suicide ganking...


This depends on what you define as "fixing suicide ganking".
I think most people see suicide ganking as not a problem in itself.
The problem, as I see it, is due to insurance it has became a cheap thrill, with the possibility of large isk gain, and no possibility of large isk loss. In this case removing insurance payout for Concord kills, would indeed be the fix to suicide ganking, while at the same time not removing the possibility to suicide gank.


Originally by: Avon
...(removing concord insurance payout) will hurt people who get killed by Concord because of a mistake / lag.


Usually the consequences for mistakes on the user side in EVE can be grave. CCP has stated repeatedly that this is intended. Do you realy want different, softer, treatment for people who make a mistake which involves concord?


Originally by: Avon
It is a very weak, knee-jerk proposal, which lots of people have latched on to because of the apparent unfairness (whereas in reality the system is perfectly fair, and that is what people actually hate) of criminals being paid insurance.


Why would the proposal be weak? It is a very strong proposal which would solve many problems.
I find it very frustrating that CCP has not implemented this fix yet.
Where is the current system fair? As has been discussed in previous threads the current system seems very broken. If you find it unfair if criminals would not get insurance why do you find this unfair? Act and consequence, isn`t it?
Besides, as has been suggested in this thread before, I would not even mind the complete removal of insurance.

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.27 15:58:00 - [29]
 

Edited by: Dianeces on 27/03/2008 15:59:09
Originally by: Inconstant Moon
Originally by: Dianeces
you are a terrible troll.


I take my time to write constructive replies, although I admit I lose my cool very occasionally when goaded by baiters such as yourself. As your contributions to this forum are mostly one-line insults, I think you are actually the troll.


Not a troll so much as maybe a ****poaster. And most of my ****poasts are at least multiple lines.

Edit: The post above me has reasoning, btw. You will note the differences between it and the OP.

Morfane
Quam Singulari
Session Changes
Posted - 2008.03.27 16:06:00 - [30]
 



Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only