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blankseplocked Suicide ganking is FINE. It's YOU who's broken.
 
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techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:25:00 - [91]
 

Originally by: Barek Ironfist
you missed scenario eight
After making a few freightor runs, and then snuffing it you decide to upgrade to a jump freightor and become immune to anything but a vast number of suicide ganking battleships.

Barek
I saw one cyno to a highsec gate in lowsec. I was 80k off so I didn't make it in time to bump him... but someone is going to teach that guy a very expensive lesson one day. Rolling Eyes

Lara Renquist
Minmatar
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:51:00 - [92]
 

Edited by: Lara Renquist on 27/03/2008 08:52:54
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 27/03/2008 04:31:45
Originally by: Terminus adacai
Problem is, not all gankers are after haulers and goods.


2++ bil ISK mission-boats are just another symptom of what's wrong.
You only need such a killing machine if you want to do solo-work.
AGAIN, we don't need yet another reason to discourage teamwork.
A small group of dirt-cheap battlecruisers can easily tackle L4 missions... hell, that's what OUR corp is for.
Sure, some do solo work, but everybody's welcome to cooperate.



I may be a complete idiot on this point but why are +2 billion mission runners wrong?
I fly a 4.5 billion one and my mate well he is even way over that, you have any idea how long it took to get that amount of isk on missions?

True indeed there is almost zero risk in missions, and this should be changed.
then again the numbskull's who say that mission running is sooo lucrative... get a bc go rat in 0.0 for a while, and you will know what i mean.

Thing is you are not in a position to say what is right and what is wrong, this is a sandbox mmo and i play it the way I want, true we need to adapt and yes i only haul stuff in phoon's these days, this does not mean thata anyone else's playstyle is wrong.

Imo all these people who keep on going into this subject on the forum's and making new post's about it, are completely cluelles.
So basicly, yes i have a dapted to the playstyle of others, especially gankers, but NO i will not play like you want me to simply cause you find yourself so important to make posts about it on the forum.

Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:06:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Lara Renquist
I may be a complete idiot on this point but why are +2 billion mission runners wrong?
I fly a 4.5 billion one and my mate well he is even way over that, you have any idea how long it took to get that amount of isk on missions?

The "wrong" part comes when they DO get suicide-ganked, then come here complaining about "how the hell else am I supposed to make money" or other somesuch nonsense.
Want to fly solo ? FINE.
Just don't complain when your expensive toy gets popped.
You knew the risks. Or if you didn't, now you do.

Quote:
Thing is you are not in a position to say what is right and what is wrong, this is a sandbox mmo and i play it the way I want, true we need to adapt and yes i only haul stuff in phoon's these days, this does not mean thata anyone else's playstyle is wrong.

I don't have to say that, the devs already made it pretty clear from day one.
They don't want people to succeed in "solo ops" unless they're either insanely skilled or fly insanely expensive ships, and even in that case, they have to be pretty lucky too, to compete against a team of cheaply fit, moderately skilled pilots.
It's now what I'm saying, it's what the core game design is SCREAMING : teamwork is essential, and highly desirable.
You're free to swim against the current if that's your choice though.

Quote:
Imo all these people who keep on going into this subject on the forum's and making new post's about it, are completely cluelles.
So basicly, yes i have a dapted to the playstyle of others, especially gankers, but NO i will not play like you want me to simply cause you find yourself so important to make posts about it on the forum.

You can play any way you like.
You CAN'T go ahead whining every couple of days that the game is broken because it doesn't fit YOUR vision, and ask for a major change.
Well, not "you", you... the generic "you", the "suicide ganking is imbalanced" crowd.


See ? A simple matter of perspective.
Matter of fact, the official CCP developement team perspective.
It's not a secret, and if it isn't common knowledge to "you guys and gals" yet, not my fault.

Lara Renquist
Minmatar
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:21:00 - [94]
 

The "wrong" part comes when they DO get suicide-ganked, then come here complaining about "how the hell else am I supposed to make money" or other somesuch nonsense.
Want to fly solo ? FINE.
Just don't complain when your expensive toy gets popped.
You knew the risks. Or if you didn't, now you do.


Mission runners who get popped by suicide gankers deserve it.
What bug's me to hell is the fact that IF the suicide gankers are stupid enough to engage me, it is ME who get's the whines, and no you won't see this on the boards.

The thing is, suicide ganking exists, and it will stay here for quite some time, however, what is wrong on this part is the fact that people who have acumulated quite some isk, are able to pop any miner, any hauler, no matter how you are fitted in almost no time with a small gang.

I'm not interrested in suicide ganks myself, but if i was i would trow 1000 ravens away just to get some kill's.... those 1000 ravens would mean a whole lot of destroyed hulks and haulers, and i would probably even benefit from the suiciding.
how can this not be wrong?

Oftherocks
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:23:00 - [95]
 

Wow, I am a total carebear, and even I thought this was a humorous post. Do you people really want all risk removed from the game? If I am hauling valuable goods, I want, no I demand, that my pulse races and I get very nervous. Come on people, it is a game, and part of the fun in this game is taking real risks... without those risks it would be a pretty boring game imho.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:06:00 - [96]
 

Originally by: Akita T
You are a brand new character.
You just bought an industrial and fit it, and you spent half a mil ISK doing it.
You load it with 50 mil worth of goods and you go on your way to sell them 10-20 minutes later for 55 mil ISK.


If you're a brand new character, where did you get 50mill isk of goods from in the first place? If a corp-mate gave it to you to haul, then get a better corp, as the corp-mate clearly doesn't know what they're doing either.

Originally by: Akita T
In a suicide-gank free world, you just made 5 mil with minimal effort.
Would you have bought a mining frigate, it would have taken you the better part of THREE TO FIVE HOURS do do this.


A mining frigate is the wrong comparison here. If you have enough isk for an industrial and 50mill worth of cargo, then you could easily get yourself into a mining cruiser instead for negligable extra training and considerably less isk investment.

Originally by: Akita T
Learning from scenario four, you got a blockade runner this time.
You might carry less, but fit for speed and agility, nobody catches you.


Well, in the warp-to-zero world (and as we're talking high-sec ganking, there's no bubbles to worry about), speed is irrelevant, it's all about the agility - well, actually it's inertial mass which is a combination of the agility and mass attributes.

Interesting fitting debate to be had here. While the blockade runners built-in warp stabs are nice, an agility fitted transport ship is surprisingly nimble, and far more flexible when you deal in a variety of goods with varying value densities, as it's easier to refit for what you're carrying at the time. Of course the best option for flexibility is to have a blockade runner, transport ship and freighter, and pick your ship and fittings to match the job at hand.

Originally by: Akita T
Suicide ganking is FINE !


Suicide ganking for profit is fine.

However you have done nothing to address the question of suicide ganking for fun.

People can and do blow others up for the sheer joy of doing it, or the joy they derive from the other players angry reactions. Should they be able to do this? Yes, of course. Should they be able to do this as cheaply as they do now? Probably not.

To demonstrate what I'm talking about, lets take a different version of scenario one:

You are a brand new character.
You just bought an industrial and fit it, and you spent half a mil ISK doing it.
Your corp-mate warns you of the dangers of suicide ganking, and to not put too much in your cargo at once.
You load it with 5 mil worth of goods and you go on your way to sell them 10-20 minutes later for 5.5 mil ISK.
It's no longer profitable to gank you, but the guy in the 5 million isk cruiser does it anyway, because it makes him laugh.
You did everything right, but you still lost. The ganker lost less isk than he'll earn recovering his sec status.

While some people might consider just having to mission or rat to recover sec-status a punishment, many do it by choice. Under the current system, a player who enjoys suicide ganking and ratting is exceptionally well-catered for.

The problem is that recovery of sec status is currently a side-effect of what is a viable occupation in it's own right. Not only does insurance mean that you get paid for getting your ship blown up by police, but the bounty/loot system means you get paid to recover your sec status too.

Matthew
Caldari
BloodStar Technologies
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:08:00 - [97]
 

Being forced to choose between bounty/loot and sec status bonus (rebalancing sec status bonuses to achieve a reasonable isk per bonus ratio) would make the sec status hit more meaningful, and more of a real punishment. Like insurance removal, it would increase the cost of the gank, but in a different way - it would be a fixed cost rather than a cost that scales with the size of the gank. As such it would have minimal impact on the profitability of ganking experienced players who should know better anyway, but offer an appreciable discouragement of the "just for fun" ganking of newbies in crappy ships.

Originally by: Cpt Fina
The freighter can't haul anything worth more than 1,000 ISK/m3 at full load.
The freighter can only haul 1,05 times its own worth.


Sounds pretty much in line with the design brief of the ship to be honest. Freighters were designed for bulk transport of bulky (i.e. low isk/m3) goods. They were not designed to be a super-hauler suitable for moving an empire's worth of megacyte at a time.

Freighters are also still more efficient than other (empire) hauling options even when partially loaded. In terms of time per m3 the breakeven point is at about 1/3 full compared to a fully expanded occator IIRC, and the freighter is still more resilient in a gank than the transport ship.

agent apple
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.27 10:36:00 - [98]
 

You see the problem isn't with how well you tank your ship, or how much insurance I get. It's called being AFK or thinking high security applies to your estamel fit golem.

A long time ago you'd have been told to stfu and adapt or die. Now CCP will happily dumb the game down to cope with your stupidity.

TBH I really don't care, because I will always be there to kill your ****, even if it costs me isk. I will make damn sure there is never anywhere 'safe' for multi billion isk ships flown by idiots.

Priest Amarr
Amarr
Temple's Gate
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:00:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: Priest Amarr on 27/03/2008 12:02:30
There is another scenario. The guy waits at the gate scans random ships. He finds a good cargo, but he has no prior plan, no friends, no thought invested in it. Just goes straight to suicide gank while rushing his second account to collect loot.

Most people are not angry because of the nature of suicide attacks, they are usually not against team work, good planning and execution and effort. People feel cheated because they know other party will always metagame, will always abuse game mechanics, and they have got no chance against it without doing the same.

So they respond to this in the same matter , but their own style. They say, fine CCP keep multiple accounts in game, and make your money but give us a safe space to live away from it. Keep disposable alts in game but ban suicide ganking. They say let people abuse every game mechanic but make us immune to it.

Maybe one day, a mining corp will declare war on another and their small group of fighters will target the other corp. And other corp will see they have a chance against this company, and they will form a small fighter group too, and they will lose some and they will gain some and they will feel like they have a chance protecting themselves or gaining an advantage over other corporation. That day, you will see people dont feel like victims anymore. That day they will be happy to be part of it.

Until then, as long as attackers motto is "if its a fair fight, you are doing something wrong" , the victim will also adapt this motto , but use it in his own style, and pressure CCP anyway he can to stop attacker entering his own little space. People, you call whining, are not doing anything different than other party, They are also trying to use out of game methods for gaining an advantage.

Maybe one day, a new star will shine , somewhere in this universe, give people hope and their dreams back.

May Blessings Be With You
Priest Amarr

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:13:00 - [100]
 

Suizid ganging might be fine .. IF (and that the most important part) you do not make profit just from ensurence as it is now!

Suizide ganging might be fine .. IF (second important part) the victim can do somethink to counter the ganging trough fitting WICH IS IMPOSIBLE for Firghters atm!
Even a T2-Transport can't be fittet to survive a full DPS blaster BS.

But yea, we all got that you (this sucking suizder) don't care about "fairplay" and that you (selfish highsec Pirate) will whine at the forum to prevent any changes that will help your victims.
Absolut normal reaction to protect your assotial doings.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:21:00 - [101]
 

Originally by: Priest Amarr
Edited by: Priest Amarr on 27/03/2008 12:02:30
There is another scenario. The guy waits at the gate scans random ships. He finds a good cargo, but he has no prior plan, no friends, no thought invested in it. Just goes straight to suicide gank while rushing his second account to collect loot.

Most people are not angry because of the nature of suicide attacks, they are usually not against team work, good planning and execution and effort. People feel cheated because they know other party will always metagame, will always abuse game mechanics, and they have got no chance against it without doing the same.

So they respond to this in the same matter , but their own style. They say, fine CCP keep multiple accounts in game, and make your money but give us a safe space to live away from it. Keep disposable alts in game but ban suicide ganking. They say let people abuse every game mechanic but make us immune to it.

Maybe one day, a mining corp will declare war on another and their small group of fighters will target the other corp. And other corp will see they have a chance against this company, and they will form a small fighter group too, and they will lose some and they will gain some and they will feel like they have a chance protecting themselves or gaining an advantage over other corporation. That day, you will see people dont feel like victims anymore. That day they will be happy to be part of it.

Until then, as long as attackers motto is "if its a fair fight, you are doing something wrong" , the victim will also adapt this motto , but use it in his own style, and pressure CCP anyway he can to stop attacker entering his own little space. People, you call whining, are not doing anything different than other party, They are also trying to use out of game methods for gaining an advantage.

Maybe one day, a new star will shine , somewhere in this universe, give people hope and their dreams back.

May Blessings Be With You
Priest Amarr


What an enormous load of bad logic and dishonesty. By your argument, DDoSing people so they can't log in is "just the same" as being better at tactics and strategy.

oh noes! Some people cheat by maximising their chances of success when engaging in PvP! Crying like a little girl to get the rules changed is an appropriate response!



tl;dr: You are contemptible.

nossler
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:37:00 - [102]
 

Holy "There's 10 ravens on that gate!" Batman. Easy fix to this problem. All industrialist stop working! You probably sold that raven/tempest/megathron or whatever that popped your Azz in the first place. Want the ganking to stop? Easy don't make ships for them to use! They will get bored and go back to 0.0 or onto the next craze. This is just a fad, CCP can't afford to have the core of the game players screaming for change and not respond. These gankers are a small portion. Most likely limp, bored out of their little mind kids, using Daddy's Credit Card to play the game. Seriously get a life and learn to play smart! You slow boat your Azz across the system, Hell I'd pop ya just because your being stupid! Fly smart! Don't set auto pilot and then walk away! Don't fly the same route eveyone else is. Don't go into Jita with a billion worth of crap and expect to be safe. Go to another system and use a hauler to bring it in smaller amounts. You worked hard and used your brain to make ISK in the game now use that brain to keep it! just please and I am begging here stop posting about it! We all know whats happening out there, kinda hard not to when almost every sector has a butt load of Concord on the gate! I gotta say my hats off to the gankers you have added that extra bit to the game. Now if you could just put that tallent into something more constructive, like, "How to make billions of isk with little or no money of my own!", well I may just buy that info! LOL

My Name is Nossler and I endorse this MessageRolling Eyes

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:43:00 - [103]
 

"CCP can't afford to have the core of the game players screaming for change and not respond."

CCP can afford to ignore a dozen or so whorumers who are making noise all out of proportion to the issue.

Nephiam
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:13:00 - [104]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Terminus adacai
Considering that anyone can start a free trial account with a simple email address, your advice is worthless.

You said they do it to make a profit for their main, right ?
Reporting the "throw-away" alt, in case it's confirmed to be a throw-away alt, following the cashflow you get to the main.
BAMF, main gone.

Yes and it is also against the EULA that u have Macro Miners and ISK sellers and a whole bunch of other things - POINT IS - the effort to prove this is just not worth it.

I liked the remove insurance if u have a low-sec status or criminally flagged - That is great. Many countries these days have FICA laws stating that u do not do business with criminals - Know Your Client. so yeah - u want to gank - no insurance - Very Happy That has my Vote

Of course, unless you make a trial alt just to inflict damage but make no profit from it.

In case you don't know, CCP stores not only your IP address but also your windows product hash key, so they can tell ith's the same Windows install playing several accounts or not.
While you might have access to a good deal of proxies, and even if some false positives might result from that, rest assured, the guy doing something like this WILL eventually wind up without his precious "main account" he's trying to protect.



Dathias
Bohemian Veterans
Fatal Ascension
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:18:00 - [105]
 

Worst thing in EVE is alt character. Perfectly anonymous for gank, scam etc. Recyclable, reusable. Thats why there is too many scams, ganking, stealing etc.

Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:23:00 - [106]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 27/03/2008 04:22:00
Originally by: Ava Santiago
At some point the market will crack and I won't be able to get the materials moved so nothing will be sold.

At some point, the only people moving goods will be those that can properly balance their ship's "resistance" with the value of the cargo.
You unload your risk to them, they get paid, you get paid, everybody's happy.

Except the suicide-gankers that is, they start getting too bored because nothing worthwhile comes along often.
Stupid people that haul milions in an untanked Badger I will always die, then whine.
Smart people know how to mitigate their risks.

Originally by: Terminus adacai
I understand you mean well, but rahter then TRUST CCP or rely on investigations (BOB ring a bell?), just get rid of flagged insurance pay outs...


And then you end up with a highsec that's TOO secure, especially for those in NPC corps.
There are enough incentives to NOT leave the NPC corp, we don't need another good reason not to join a player corp.



Look, now just stop making wholly subjective and unreasoned statements as if they are some kind of fundamental truth. TOO secure? How so? Why is your opinion more valid than everyone elses if you cant actually provide reasoning to support it? You haven't actually undermined a single counterpoint so far this whole thread and you're making some fairly arbitrary predictions on how the eve economy works without seemingly having any kind of demonstrable evidence to support your case.

If suicide gankers dont get their insurance payout (some punk who stole my car wouldn't get to claim insurance - someone who charged their truck into it with intention to kill isn't going to get a cheque to replace or repair it). Stop defending mechanics that unreasonably support a playstyle that any sane person can see is an unintended design oversight.

The change in no way alters the benefits of being in an NPC corp, being in an NPC corp has no baring on insurance payouts.

Nephiam
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:24:00 - [107]
 

Here is another twist for u all:
The big thing about suicide ganking is that the loot is picked up by an unassociated second account ie STEALING, but as he is 'with' the gankers it does not matter. If he is IN the gang the loot is his to take - so he can take it.

SO Let Concord and Gate guns - shoot the 2nd account for STEALING the loot (as he was not in the killing gang).

Oh and btw he normally steals it in a crappy fitted T1 hauler Laughing. At least nw - he wil have to ensure he is uber tanked in his hauler

Farham
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:25:00 - [108]
 

Edited by: Farham on 27/03/2008 13:26:01
"CONCORD provide consequences"

I believe the main argument from those being suicide ganked is that there really isn't real consequences. No one logically argues (or can argue) that high sec should be carebear heaven but on the same theme the consequences from Concord should match or at least come closer to the consequences of the gankee.

Suicide ganking is fine but there definately needs to be more pain in doing it so that people have to really decide "is this worth it?".


Ryoji Tanakama
Caldari
Indicium Technologies
Hephaestus Forge Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:26:00 - [109]
 

Originally by: Oftherocks
Wow, I am a total carebear, and even I thought this was a humorous post. Do you people really want all risk removed from the game? If I am hauling valuable goods, I want, no I demand, that my pulse races and I get very nervous. Come on people, it is a game, and part of the fun in this game is taking real risks... without those risks it would be a pretty boring game imho.


I'ts not about removing all risk, it's about removing an illogical reward from what is supposed to be a criminal action. If anything it adds risk for the suicide ganker, who currently suffers no risk for his rewards as all his costs are covered.

cRazYf1St
tempered steel
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:29:00 - [110]
 

just fix the insurance tbh.

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:42:00 - [111]
 

Originally by: Nephiam
STEALING, but as he is 'with' the gankers it does not matter. If he is IN the gang the loot is his to take - so he can take it.

Uhh, no, he can't. The loot belongs to the owner of the ship that got destroyed.

Wreck ownership in PvP =/= wreck ownership in PvE - the "Thief" gets aggroed to the gankee and his corporation.

Also, are you seriously proposing making stealing from a wreck/can a concordable offense? LaughingLaughingLaughing

Nephiam
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:51:00 - [112]
 

Uhh, no, he can't. The loot belongs to the owner of the ship that got destroyed.

Wreck ownership in PvP =/= wreck ownership in PvE - the "Thief" gets aggroed to the gankee and his corporation.

Also, are you seriously proposing making stealing from a wreck/can a concordable offense?


Yes - at least for the gates.
I like taking out Ore thieves - so let them steal and not let concord get the fun of killing them Twisted EvilTwisted Evil

Imperator Jora'h
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:55:00 - [113]
 

Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 27/03/2008 07:34:53
Originally by: Roid Hunter
Originally by: Reem Fairchild
Originally by: Imperator Jora'h

2) See hauler
2a) Scan hauler (which he can do nothing to prevent)
2b) If hauler defense < Z-Damage proceed to step 2c else abort
2c) If mods + cargo / 2 > Y-ISK proceed to step 3 else abort

3) Target hauler
3a) Press F1-F?, web and scram, bump for good measure if you are bored
3b) Wait for hauler to pop, wait for you to pop


If you haven't warped long before those steps can be taken, you're probably on auto-pilot.


Or in a hauler........


...with nearly no agility skills trained... ...or on auto pilot.

Edit: Actually scratch that. On auto pilot. It should not take that much for any ship to get into warp. And if it does, you can always simply put on a mwd and pulse it, to sharply reduce the time it takes.


You know the untruth in this because auto-haulers DO get ganked.

Additionally the gankers are not doing everything I listed in one go. They have a scanning ship up the line somewhere to spot targets. When the target hauler jumps in it is all over.

Align to warp? They will scram you and bump you. Mid slots dedicated to scrams and increased targeting speed.

In short if you are identified as a target chances are excellent they will get you.

Originally by: Willow Whisp
Risk: The good loot will pop.
Risk: The target will be on it's toes and gets away
Risk: Ship Loss - Insurance + Modules + Dropped loot may not be enough to offset losses
Risk: Some other noob in a hauler steals the dropped loot before their alt can scoop it...



- Good Loot will pop? Maybe but only a stupid ganker goes for a ship where the chances are they may lose money on a random dice roll. Ships are chosen that will be profitable no matter what drops.

- Target on its toes and escapes? Not likely at all if the suicide ganker has a clue of what they are about (they have already ship scanned and know the target's tank and possible stabs or speed mods).

- Ship loss > loot? Only if the ganker is stupid and ganks at random which pretty much never happens. The ganker knows full well what they stand to gain and only do it if the money balance is in their favor.

- Other noob steals loot drop? Well...maybe. At least the ganker is ready for it and prepared to swoop in to nab the stuff giving them a distinct advantage here. There are many things they could do to ensure the loot remains theirs. I seriously doubt many gankers lose much to this at all.


NeoTheo
M'8'S
Posted - 2008.03.27 14:46:00 - [114]
 

Edited by: NeoTheo on 27/03/2008 14:46:06
I have been ganked, and i have also been the ganker.

i would have no problem with CCP taking away insurance on any kill where concord got the killing blow. (or for that matter gateguns in 0.5 and above).

most people that get ganked are unfortuantly stupid. sometimes however you take all the sensible precautions and still get ganked, well you know what, some times i cook food in exactly the same way as i did the first time and it turns out crap.

thats life, even in eve a game, sometimes life and eve life just sux.

i am getting a bit sick of people screaming "high sec is supposed to be 100% safe", these people need to READ about the game and not make assumptions (then carrying them assumptions for years cause they have been lucky enough to not getganked or wardec'ed).


fivetide humidyear
Gallente
Fool Mental Junket
Posted - 2008.03.27 15:27:00 - [115]
 

SCENARIO 9

or is it 10?

Buy jump freighter, think your invulnerable (again) die to a slightly larger suicide squad, losing all your stuff and an expensive freighter, moan on forums, threaten to quit your (n+1) accounts.

suicide ganking is fine, it makes hauling fun and exciting.....

Priest Amarr
Amarr
Temple's Gate
Posted - 2008.03.27 16:10:00 - [116]
 

Originally by: Malcanis

What an enormous load of bad logic and dishonesty. By your argument, DDoSing people so they can't log in is "just the same" as being better at tactics and strategy.
....



Temple never gets involved into arguments, only states the current situation. I can see it is not possible for you without meta gaming, but its ok, its not our place to judge you. If playing one character is too difficult , you must be accepted for who you are.

And as for everyone else, you all can make your own choices.

There is a room for everybody in the Temple
Priest Amarr


Julius Romanus
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.27 16:27:00 - [117]
 

Originally by: Roid Hunter
Originally by: Julius Romanus
Originally by: Arian Serpintus
Edited by: Arian Serpintus on 27/03/2008 03:49:09
And to those that reply that not insuring such losses would chase new players away, give me a ****ing break. New players aren't setting up gank squads, and if they are, **** em, we don't need em...


The one's setting up gank squads are using throw away alts or free trials. That in and of itself should end this discussion.




No, it could be broken with a single sentence or two =P

I got concorded 3 times in a row when i first came back to eve. There's even a forum post from me asking if it would ever stop. Myself and a friend wanted to test our "named" guns :)

I dont personally think a half afk mission drake/raven should get insurance payouts if by some twist of eve it somehow pops. But it does. And thats not going to change. Insurance is how it is. Besides, the language of the contract is clear "i pay you x, if my ship blows up before y you pay me z". No stipulations on how or why the ship pops.


That could be fixed with a simple sentence or two....



TechnoTits
Gallente
Genital Warthogs
Posted - 2008.03.27 17:37:00 - [118]
 

Originally by: Cpt Fina

Escorts are often not financially viable.


This is where you fail. You need an escort. If it's not financially viable, you are in the wrong business.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.03.27 18:05:00 - [119]
 

- Everyone is a target, always
- if you're stupid, ignorant or just unwilling to put in effort you become a bigger (and easier) target
- more idiots, more kills
- idiots who learn get killed less
- idiots who don't learn whine on the forum while getting killed frequently, apart from that they send you hatemail.


I don't see the problem in this pvp game.



Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
Posted - 2008.03.27 19:59:00 - [120]
 

Edited by: Akita T on 27/03/2008 20:06:56
Originally by: Ryoji Tanakama
Look, now just stop making wholly subjective and unreasoned statements as if they are some kind of fundamental truth. TOO secure? How so? Why is your opinion more valid than everyone elses if you cant actually provide reasoning to support it? You haven't actually undermined a single counterpoint so far this whole thread and you're making some fairly arbitrary predictions on how the eve economy works without seemingly having any kind of demonstrable evidence to support your case.

Hmm, let's see... my "arbitrary predictions" have been always right so far, I HAVE provided reasoning, and please point out the so-called "counterpoints I have not undermined" yet.

The "risk-vs-reward" thing ?
IF the ones getting ganked would stop being greedy/lazy/stupid/whatever and cease trying to move too much value in one trip, the risk-vs-reward for the gankers themselves would be quite peachy too !
Since the ones getting ganked are NOT carrying appropriate loads, sure, the gankers DO get less risk and more reward.
But, is it the system's fault ? The ganker's fault ? NO ! It's the ganked people's fault 100% !

The "it doesn't make sense" argument ?
Well, let's see, we "live" in a game where internet spaceships handle like submarines flying through space soup, guns hit better the farther the target is, shots go through rocks and other ships hitting the intended target, missile have an explosion radius but hurt nobody else in it except the one who's getting shot and so on and so forth.
It's a game. It's supposed to resemble something believable, but not be completely believable if it means sacrificing gameplay.

The "recycled alts omfg" craze ?
Somebody, somewhere, somehow cheats at <gameX>. Ban <valid thing> in <gameX> because a lot of players cheat using that as base for their cheating.
REPORT the damn alts and let CCP sort it out. If you don't trust them to handle anything properly, why do you even bother asking for a change in sucicide gank mechanics ? I mean, you can't trust they'll do it anyway, so why bother ?

No, seriously, WHAT other so-called "counterpoint" wasn't "addressed" yet ?

Quote:
If suicide gankers dont get their insurance payout (some punk who stole my car wouldn't get to claim insurance - someone who charged their truck into it with intention to kill isn't going to get a cheque to replace or repair it).

To be quite honest, IF you are to change anything about insurance, then I would fully support either a complete removal of insurance, or a complete revamp of insurance premiums to take into account previous COLLECTED insurances.
Doesn't matter you lost your ship to CONCORD, to a badly aggroed mission, to another player or you self-destructed it.
Either NOBODY gets insurance, or EVERYBODY gets insurance depending on individual previous insurance collection history.

Or... you might as well just leave it the way it is now.

Quote:
Stop defending mechanics that unreasonably support a playstyle that any sane person can see is an unintended design oversight.


Who died and made you game historian ?
In the beginning, there was almost no protection at all.
Slowly, the more people got into the game, and the more violent attacks began to target "innocents", measures to discourage excessive use of "kill people in highsec because we can" were gradually introduced.
CONCORD shoots all damage types (so you can't tank for CONCORD specifically), they NOS you dry (say goodbye smartbombs), they jam you badly (say goodbye to guns and missiles).
The LATEST change to CONCORD was a bit more even damage spread (boosted what was "lacking") and the fact they now "disable" your drones too when they arrive (and this mainly because Dominixes were being ABUSED as a suicide-gank platform).

The FACT you CAN and WILL be attacked in highsec if you present a much too juicy target IS A FULLY INTENDED DESIGN GOAL.


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