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Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.03.27 06:17:00 - [151]
 

Originally by: Marcus TheMartin

if fixing the bugs was always #1 then nothing would never get done.


Well... you got me there. Confused

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.27 06:46:00 - [152]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy
Originally by: Venkul Mul


All that can be constructed only at a POS, included reactions and moon mining.


Nonsense. You simply create a 1 man corp with 5 minutes of training, anchor the pos with your 9.9 standings from grinding missions all day, and then use a placeholder alt to hold the corp.

Reactions and moon mining cannot be done in highsec, NPC corp protections don't matter once you go into lowsec. Red herring.


1) And then the alt in a 1 man player corp and wardeccable, so you have your target exactly as you want and the main can't use the POS.

2) Capital construction can't be done in high sec, moon mining can't be done in high sec, but NPC corp player can go in low sec. We are speaking of the drawback of NPC corps, not of high/low sec. Don't use straw man arguments.


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Can't rent hangar in station, can't put up pos, can't purchase labs for pos.


What would you do with a hanger exactly in your 1 man corp? Yes you can put up a pos, and yes you can purchase labs for the pos.


Again, 1 man corp are PLAYER corps. So not NPC corp

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No, even if I would be very curious to see how someone can use a supercapital in a NPC corp. but probably using alts it is possible to manage it.


Why wouldn't it be possible?


Minimum 2 Account, and a lot of trouble as you can't leave it at a POS so you must keep alwais a character in.


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Beside the above? Can't be helped by other players in the corp when aggressed. Can't be helped by other player in the corp when can is stolen. Essentially if you get aggro you don't get anyone that can help you.


None of which has to do with npc corps and everything to do with your chosen playstyle of being solo. 1 man corps don't get these benefits either.


1 man corps again. LaughingLaughing

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Weakest safety net as some NPC corp players can help you, but in a good corporation they will support you much more.

Can't access corporation BPO (a good corporation will have a noticeable number of researched BPo for production, locked against corp thieves, but usable.


Bull****. The vast majority of corps don't have BPOs available for you to just use. The ones that do tend to use those BPOs in production.


Perfect, contradict yourself. BTW: My corp has several BPO/BPC cor member use. A I think we are a mediocre corp.


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No access to a corporation hangar with plenty of "free" ammunition and low metalevel modules.


Red herring, corp hangers are only stocked because members contribute towards it. You contribute nothing, therefore you get nothing.


Pft. In most corps some of the tax isk are used to build ammunitions. And the meta 1 items are a godsend for new players.

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Can't wardec someone (rarely, but you can want to do it).


Bull****. You can setup a corp in 2 seconds and immediately vote to wardec with your one man corp.


Again.

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Harder to set up group operation.


Not really, setup a common channel for you and your friends and voila, instant organization.


Harder is not impossible. You cant collaborate fully, so it is harder (no remote rep, remote boosting, ecc.).

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A good corporation is way better than the NPC corp, sadly there is a large percentage of bad corporation and hardly a good system to recognize the good from the bad.


Which is just a red herring, because the real reason you're in an npc corp is to dodge wardecs, otherwise why wouldn't you be in a 1 man corp?Rolling Eyes


Again and again and again. You can ave only 1 thought in your head? "1 man corp"

To repeat it: 1 man corp are player corps, so they have no bearing on the advantages disadvantages of NPC corps, as they don't have them.

1 man corp means meet no new people, while in the NPC corp channel you meet a lot of people.

EnslaverOfMinmatar
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.27 06:49:00 - [153]
 

To the OP: what a crappy idea.

Lillith Vitae
Posted - 2008.03.27 07:33:00 - [154]
 

Only 2 reasons I could really see you wanting character forced to leave NPC corps.
1. You are to affraid to come to low sec or null sec and fight people who know how to fight back. And thus instead spending the time to learn to PVP you want the easy way and what to PVP with people who are still learning the game so you can feel like a big dog.

2. you want people forced in to your corp so that you can do what I have fond to 70% to 80% of what player corps have to offer and that is expoiltation of new players.

And to clear up the misconception the majority of carebears hide in NPC corps so they can not be wardec'ed honestly is only about 20%. Most of the ones that stay in NPC for long a times is ether cause they don't want to with corps politics or have dealt with them and got truely tired of it. If you find good corp then you have found a true gem among mostly fakes.

As for NPC corps having an unfair advantage of no tax's most of the bottom line production done in the game is done by large and sizable player corps. Also if you think your corp is making it so you can not compete then talk to your CEO or director about it cause they are the ones ending up with your tax ISK not NPC's.

If you want to recruit new people to your corp then take a couple of minutes to explain what your corp does, how memebers in your corp interact with each other, what your corp can offer them and what they can offer the corp. And please sake don't spout the same lies that corps do in the recruitment channel.

That is 2 on the matter there many advantages and disadvantages to being in NPC a player corp. Currently in my opinion they are pretty balanced.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2008.03.27 07:39:00 - [155]
 

Originally by: Lillith Vitae
Only 2 reasons I could really see you wanting character forced to leave NPC corps.
1. You are to affraid to come to low sec or null sec and fight people who know how to fight back. And thus instead spending the time to learn to PVP you want the easy way and what to PVP with people who are still learning the game so you can feel like a big dog.




You are making assumptions

1. every one in lowsec or 0.0 does not know how to fight
2. npc corp characters have nice things that they don't have to worry about losing unless its a little "too" nice.
3. npc corp alts to fund pvp mains
4. Obelisks in The Scope because fix got wardecced (yeah I saw what they did there)

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:24:00 - [156]
 

Edited by: Mika Meroko on 27/03/2008 08:28:42
safe... risk free.....

HA!!! BS

tell that to the hundred's (okay, more like just over 100 since last I checked... but probley more)of hulk pilots who got ganked in highsec in npc/player corps without wardecs =P

theres NO safe place in eve:

I repeat, NPC corps/empire /= safe...

it just makes it more expensive to kill you. if someone wants you dead bad enough, you will die... even if you are in npc corp. the only way to avoid it is stay docked... (which if you are doing that anyways, why are you paying subs?.. and yah, that results in CCP accounting not being happy, which could lead to less booze for the devs =P...)


NPC corps are already nerfed... no corp hanger for swapping stuff (contracts is still hassle.. and gives rise to fun, potential screw ups.), no POS, no pos labs/copying/research, no moon mining, KOS by everybody in 0.0... and tons of handicaps for peace and *relatively quiet...

thats a huge chunk of content/perks not accessable to npc corps.

nerf it more and you might as well give people a trial account...


if you want targets.. head over to goon/RA space =P... TONS of bees =P... fun times...

(granted, you might not get out alive though.)

if you want isk.. ransom a highsec POS research corp... *but yeah, expect a fight...most would hire mercs to protect...those who actually put up large/many poses will defend it... oh, and dont bother wardec alt pos corps... they just take it down since they know they cant defend it by themselves... more signs that not everybody wants to pew pew when they know they have no chance of winning. *kudos are those who fight against the odds and dont pull a logoffski.*



it is bad business practice to force anybody to do anything when you are charging them...if you charge them money, you should let them do whatever they want within the contract they signed (EULA)

CCP isnt stupid. nerfing npc corps, they get rid of alot of causal players. (surprisingly, those are the ones who doesn't complain much about balance/etc and stays longer than those who burn out fast...due to running out of content fast =P...)


and yeah, Devs already said quite awhile ago...

(search button....*edit: but then again, that might not be too helpful, since this kind of post pops up every few weeks.. theres TONS.. and I mean TONS of discusssion on it... pretty much everything that could be think of has been thrown out... at the end of the day, is less work to achieve the same result without upsetting a good portion of paying customers just by leaving things as it is...)

...that they WILL let people have a place to recoup/recover, till whenever they FEEL ready to get back into the "politics" of eve...

*caveat: the feeling is subjective.. but hey, I dont mind if Joe Smoe stays in NPC corps if he is paying CCP...



but heres a tip:

if you are REALLY looking for a game where you can gank newbies in their starter zones:

sign up for pirates of the burning seas: the pvp areas can be generated anywhere... even "safe" starter towns...

granted, that game might not last long though, since is mostly pvp.. the pew pew kind...that game is sinking fast...

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:24:00 - [157]
 

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1) And then the alt in a 1 man player corp and wardeccable, so you have your target exactly as you want and the main can't use the POS.

2) Capital construction can't be done in high sec, moon mining can't be done in high sec, but NPC corp player can go in low sec. We are speaking of the drawback of NPC corps, not of high/low sec. Don't use straw man arguments.


You don't even understand what the term strawman means. Nothing happens in a vacuum, ultimately npc corp protection is ONLY immunity from wardecs, which is irrelevent should you choose to go into lowsec.Rolling Eyes

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Again, 1 man corp are PLAYER corps. So not NPC corp


Dodge the point more please.

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Minimum 2 Account, and a lot of trouble as you can't leave it at a POS so you must keep alwais a character in.


Please, only idiots left supercaps floating around in space, the people that do this tend to lose them very quickly.

Every supercap pilot has more than one account anyways, I have 3 for example. How is this a disadvantage of the npc corp?

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1 man corps again.


Dodging the point again.

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Perfect, contradict yourself. BTW: My corp has several BPO/BPC cor member use. A I think we are a mediocre corp.


Learn English? Where is the contradiction?

I'm in a very good corp and we don't have BPOs just sitting around for people to use. Corp quality has nothing to do with whether the corp just has random bpos sitting around for members to use.

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Pft. In most corps some of the tax isk are used to build ammunitions. And the meta 1 items are a godsend for new players.


Corp building ammunition isLaughing

All you need is one player and some corp wide contracts.

Not to mention no one cares that a new player is sitting in NPC corp, the problem is when 4 year old vets sit in them with their CNRs grinding missions 10 hours a day. Even worse is when that is an alt supporting a main with endless source of safe income that can never ever be taken away, thus negating one of the major ways to wage war in eve, attrition.

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Again.


You just love dodging the point dont you.

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Harder is not impossible. You cant collaborate fully, so it is harder (no remote rep, remote boosting, ecc.).


And what prevents you from remote repping/boosting exactly?Rolling Eyes

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Again and again and again. You can ave only 1 thought in your head? "1 man corp"

To repeat it: 1 man corp are player corps, so they have no bearing on the advantages disadvantages of NPC corps, as they don't have them.

1 man corp means meet no new people, while in the NPC corp channel you meet a lot of people.



Yes it does, because 1 man corps can be made in minutes for a specific purpose, after which it can be disbanded so you can return to npc corp immunity.

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:44:00 - [158]
 

Originally by: Lillith Vitae
Only 2 reasons I could really see you wanting character forced to leave NPC corps.


And there's only one reason why a rich man would give money to charity; ensuring the good health of people in under developed countries so that they will have a effective workforce once slavery gets reestablished.

Not all opinions have to reflect ones (most obvious) personal agenda.

I think that alot of the people that endorse this idea are doing so with the game’s best interest in mind.

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:53:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Lillith Vitae
Only 2 reasons I could really see you wanting character forced to leave NPC corps.


And there's only one reason why a rich man would give money to charity; ensuring the good health of people in under developed countries so that they will have a effective workforce once slavery gets reestablished.

Not all opinions have to reflect ones (most obvious) personal agenda.

I think that alot of the people that endorse this idea are doing so with the game’s best interest in mind.



Whats the game's best interest again?... =P subscribers or errrm... hardcore pvp world (like POTBS?? well, okay, POTBS isnt that harsh to established players..)

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:06:00 - [160]
 

Edited by: Cpt Fina on 27/03/2008 09:07:11
Edited by: Cpt Fina on 27/03/2008 09:06:09
Originally by: Mika Meroko
Originally by: Cpt Fina
Originally by: Lillith Vitae
Only 2 reasons I could really see you wanting character forced to leave NPC corps.


And there's only one reason why a rich man would give money to charity; ensuring the good health of people in under developed countries so that they will have a effective workforce once slavery gets reestablished.

Not all opinions have to reflect ones (most obvious) personal agenda.

I think that alot of the people that endorse this idea are doing so with the game’s best interest in mind.



Whats the game's best interest again?... =P subscribers or errrm... hardcore pvp world (like POTBS?? well, okay, POTBS isnt that harsh to established players..)


The shareholders of CCP's stocks would hold the quantity of subscribers or the stock yield as their best interest. The bank or third party that CCP have loaned money from will have CCP's financial status in their best interest.
As far as I know CCP aren't even on the stockmarket.

CCP as a company probably don't have financial growth as a main objective, that would be pretty rare. Companies usually have a vision for their company and it's product(s) and then they have short and long term goals on the road to achieve said vision.

The game, as a product, most certainly have been given a vision, a long term goal by CCP. Improving the prodoct attributes is one way to move towards the long term goal and that is what we are discussing in this thread. A product attribute, not the interests of third party actors.

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:12:00 - [161]
 

hmmm, CCP is also getting on that vampire mmo....

but yeah... only the devs can decide... oh well.

*shrugs*

*just a trader who sits in station all day.. trading... *

Cpt Fina
Red Dwarf Mining Corporation
space weaponry and trade
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:25:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Mika Meroko
hmmm, CCP is also getting on that vampire mmo....

but yeah... only the devs can decide... oh well.

*shrugs*

*just a trader who sits in station all day.. trading... *


CCP has showed potential of standing up against the crowd and implement or hold on to unpopular gamemechanics before. This imo, is a sign of great integrity from CCP. Even more so if they were adviced against it from marketing.
On the other hand they've also showed signs and of listening to the playerbase. This can be a very good thing indeed. However some gamechanges made in the past show traces of a CCP making gamechanges that may not be in line with the given vision of the game.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:43:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: Tippia on 27/03/2008 09:48:50
Originally by: Cpt Fina
"No, being war-dec:able is the price you pay for having control over your own allegiance and being able to expand your empire."

"Having control" as in being given the means to control it? If not then what?
Exactly that. Wardecs are a part of the jockeying for control over space.

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Also not to forget. Your argument is based solely upon that you personal belief about this matter holds tight. If one were to say the direct opposite their argument would bear as much weight (in this particalar mattter) as yours.
Of course - if I didn't assume that I was right, I'd hardly push the point (and even if I did it as a devil's advocate play, it would still be based on the assumption that what I said was right, even if I personally didn't believe so). Wink

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If so then I could simply claim that the transactiontax of all NPC-players actually goes to the restauration-cost of the NPC-stations and not the actual transaction. Thereby an additional tax should be implemented to compensate for this.
The repairbill that all NPC-players recieves when repairing ships actually only covers the repair-staff's sugar used on their coffeebreaks and therefor an additional fee should be implemented.
Which leads us back to the question of NPC taxes. My original point (30% tax is ok if we get our destroyed equipment back for free) is based on the simple fact that, yes, PC corp players (usually) pay taxes, but they still get to keep their money. It is just retained within the corp, rather than in their personal wallet, but as members of that corp they have a stake in how that money is used - and hopefully that use is to their benefit. They may have to put the CFO's nuts in a vise before he wines-and-dines them personally, but they money still exists for them to use. An NPC corp tax would mean that the ISK is destroyed.

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No, I don’t counter my own points here. To make sure that NPC-corps doesn’t compete at the same efficiency as the rest of us you basically have to nerf them.
Yes, but the effects from direct and indirect nerfs are very different. It's the age-old carrot and/or stick problem: do you want to attract players to PC corps (through a buff to PCCs / indirect nerf to NPCCs) and reward them for the move, or do you want to repel players from the NPC corps (through a nerf to NPCCs / indirect buff to PCCs) and punish them for not leaving?

There is an entire field of study connected to the issue of positive and negative sanctioning, and how the different approaches causes different responses in the target, so while yes, one man's nerf is another man's buff - no argument there - the means and ways of implementing those buffs and nerfs can (and often will) vastly change the outcome.
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A decrease in tax/fee for the Player-corp guy would not be sufficient. You’d have to increase the tax/fee for the NPC-guy to have any significant effect.
...which leads to capital destruction (not to mention "omgz we got teh nerfed" whines), which is a bad thing. Yes, if taxation is the way you want to go, I agree that this is the way it needs to happen, but the results (that I can see) of such a change suggest that this might not be a good way to go. What you're doing here is lowering the baseline, rather than increasing the height of the ceiling by improving other PC corp benefits.

Corp-specific equipment, corp bonuses to production, higher corp insurance payouts (to make up for the hypothetical scenario that PCC players have better access to higher-tiered gear)... there are plenty of ways to increase the benefits and heightening the ceiling in player corps, without affecting the baseline of the NPC corps.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:45:00 - [164]
 

Also...
Originally by: Cpt Fina
The goal is to have NPC-corpers compete at a decreased efficiency since they override the very means players have to fight competition.
Really? We might be talking at cross-purpose then. I read this...
Originally by: Raediearn
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
...as trying to make people join the PC corps. Due to the limitations in what services and benefits NPC corps provide, the NPCC players already compete at decreased efficiently.

Rod Blaine
Evolution
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:53:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: Rod Blaine

NPC corps break the balancing act Eve does that says that any action may have a consequence determined by other players. That consequence is generally of the form chosen by the player(s) that provide it.



Btw. five years of experience tells me that CCP don't see it that way.


Not really. They've expressed similar sentiments in the past. Their porblem is that they are afraid of the effects possible solutions could have. Much like changing the standings system to provide more rewards and consequnces they are afraid that the game economy and game playerbase aren't robust enough to support what the playerbase would use such tools for.

An example. Inmy sig you see a very old blog thing about changing some things so that it becomes easier for people to affect each other directly by means other then just shooty-shooty. Industrial warfare if you would like. Their counter argument at the time was (and still is i imagine) that they are afraid that too many unaffiliated players would suffer from a shortage in availability of goods.

The intent to allow players to affect eachother directly and in an aimed way by different means (social engineering, industrial/economic, and through warfare), is there. But the practical implementation is a quite large leap from where we are now.

I don't see NPC corps change much tbh. Too many players would feel overly inconvenienced. Even when that's not a realistic argument, it is the perception that matters most.

It's a pity however that CCP also haven't done anything with the possibilities that are realistic ways of empowering those that would choose to participate. They don't have to force, but htey still haven't chosen to go the way of rewarding people that participate in a wider sense either.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:24:00 - [166]
 


First you tell us that hisec in npc corp is safe.

Then you tell us theres no safety in Eve.

Which is it?

I feel safer in 0.0 than hisec.

I'm not here for safety. I'm here because your alliance sucks. I'm here because your alliance leader is an a-hole. I'm here because the alliance game sucks. I'm here because I will not spend my own money to PvP on your behalf for free. I'm here because I won't set an alarm clock. I'm here because you won't let me put my POS on the good moon. I'm here because you tried to charge your own alliance members rent. I'm here becaue 0.0 is not end game. I'm here because I'm not your mining slave. I'm here because I won't pay your corp tax for nothing in return. I'm here because if I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you. But most of all...yeah...most of all...

I'm here because I'm free.

Remember that word? Freedom?

Beholden to no one?

What Eve claims to offer?

Do what you want, when you want, without asking "mother may I?"

You know why you hate hisec dwellers?

You hate us because we don't have to be your alliance leaders b*tch like you are.

"Mandatory alliance mining op at 1800" BWAHAHAHAHAHAA yeah right.

"Required to pay 20 mil per member per week" BWAHAAHAHAHAH yeah right.

"These guys are blue now don't shoot them" BWAHAHAHAHAHA yeah right.

So here is a big "SCREW YOU" to all the alliance knuckleheads posting here who think they're playing "Eve endgame" or "Eve as its supposed to be played."

Every single day people like me are proving how irrelevant you are.

Stop posting here and go rat for money SLAVE.

Stop posting here and go mine SLAVE.

Stop posting here and go do your mandatory alliance op SLAVE.

Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:33:00 - [167]
 

Edited by: Gamesguy on 27/03/2008 12:34:41
Edited by: Gamesguy on 27/03/2008 12:34:19
Originally by: Cipher7

First you tell us that hisec in npc corp is safe.

Then you tell us theres no safety in Eve.

Which is it?

I feel safer in 0.0 than hisec.

I'm not here for safety. I'm here because your alliance sucks. I'm here because your alliance leader is an a-hole. I'm here because the alliance game sucks. I'm here because I will not spend my own money to PvP on your behalf for free. I'm here because I won't set an alarm clock. I'm here because you won't let me put my POS on the good moon. I'm here because you tried to charge your own alliance members rent. I'm here becaue 0.0 is not end game. I'm here because I'm not your mining slave. I'm here because I won't pay your corp tax for nothing in return. I'm here because if I want your opinion I'll beat it out of you. But most of all...yeah...most of all...

I'm here because I'm free.

Remember that word? Freedom?

Beholden to no one?

What Eve claims to offer?

Do what you want, when you want, without asking "mother may I?"

You know why you hate hisec dwellers?

You hate us because we don't have to be your alliance leaders b*tch like you are.

"Mandatory alliance mining op at 1800" BWAHAHAHAHAHAA yeah right.

"Required to pay 20 mil per member per week" BWAHAAHAHAHAH yeah right.

"These guys are blue now don't shoot them" BWAHAHAHAHAHA yeah right.

So here is a big "SCREW YOU" to all the alliance knuckleheads posting here who think they're playing "Eve endgame" or "Eve as its supposed to be played."

Every single day people like me are proving how irrelevant you are.

Stop posting here and go rat for money SLAVE.

Stop posting here and go mine SLAVE.

Stop posting here and go do your mandatory alliance op SLAVE.



Oh shut up! Just because you were in KOS or some other crap alliance where the leadership ran it like an isk farmer operation doesn't mean every other alliance is like that.

Its pathetic how much you try to justify the fact that you are in empire. Do I need to crush your stupid "all 0.0 players are slaves to their CEO" argument again? Because if I recall you basically conceeded last time.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:49:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Gamesguy

Oh shut up! Just because you were in KOS or some other crap alliance where the leadership ran it like an isk farmer operation doesn't mean every other alliance is like that.

Its pathetic how much you try to justify the fact that you are in empire. Do I need to crush your stupid "all 0.0 players are slaves to their CEO" argument again? Because if I recall you basically conceeded last time.


I think you should run more missions and build yourself another mom.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.27 12:52:00 - [169]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

I think you should run more missions and build yourself another mom.

Maybe you could get your NPC corp to help build you one to prove how much better not being an alliance slave is?

Oh, wait .. you can't.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:00:00 - [170]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cipher7

I think you should run more missions and build yourself another mom.

Maybe you could get your NPC corp to help build you one to prove how much better not being an alliance slave is?

Oh, wait .. you can't.


I'd need it for what? To defend my cynojammer?

Oh wait ..

Holy circular logic batman.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:03:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

Holy circular logic batman.

Sorry, I thought that you were arguing that alliances weren't the endgame.
I didn't realise that the real endgame involved placing limitations on what ships you could possibly build.

For some silly reason I thought endgame meant more, not less.

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:07:00 - [172]
 

Having been in NPC corps and in player corps I will offer my perspective. The benefits of NPC corps is freedom from being war dec'd which translates to freedom of movement. Considering how easily war decs are thrown around in this game (I hazard to guess most war dec's are done out of boredom not for any actual meaningful purpose) as well as the extensive amount of training time it takes to fly effective ships in combat, or at least defend yourself from combatants, I can see why many players would opt to remain in NPC corps. Being in an NPC corp makes the game a lot less stressful and for those who do not have large amounts of time to commit to the game and are looking for for some enjoyment in the few hours here and there they do play, being in an NPC corp is the way to go.

I think being in a player corp/alliance would be a lot more attractive to Empire huggers if war decs weren't thrown around like a rockstar's bedsheets. Too I think there needs to be stronger ties between the player corps and NPC corps/Faction element of the game. Meaning that player corps should have a much stronger relationship with Empire factions as oppose to there being two different EVE universes, one storyline and one player driven.



Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:10:00 - [173]
 

Originally by: Avon

For some silly reason I thought endgame meant more, not less.


For some silly reason I thought Eve didn't have an endgame.

What level are you?

ThaDollaGenerale
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:12:00 - [174]
 

Originally by: Decard Sune


The biggest question is why do you really care? Does it ruin your enjoyment of EVE that some players simply don't have the time and/or inclination to pvp?


As much as I hate carebears. Agreed.

Amarth Thargan
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:13:00 - [175]
 

kids with beards how amusing
it seems a long time since games were games
the wind blows in strange directions

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:35:00 - [176]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
Having been in NPC corps and in player corps I will offer my perspective. The benefits of NPC corps is freedom from being war dec'd which translates to freedom of movement. Considering how easily war decs are thrown around in this game (I hazard to guess most war dec's are done out of boredom not for any actual meaningful purpose) as well as the extensive amount of training time it takes to fly effective ships in combat, or at least defend yourself from combatants, I can see why many players would opt to remain in NPC corps. Being in an NPC corp makes the game a lot less stressful and for those who do not have large amounts of time to commit to the game and are looking for for some enjoyment in the few hours here and there they do play, being in an NPC corp is the way to go.

I think being in a player corp/alliance would be a lot more attractive to Empire huggers if war decs weren't thrown around like a rockstar's bedsheets. Too I think there needs to be stronger ties between the player corps and NPC corps/Faction element of the game. Meaning that player corps should have a much stronger relationship with Empire factions as oppose to there being two different EVE universes, one storyline and one player driven.



I think you're on the wrong track.

In every single game there is a reward for PvP. You capture this, you get X points, with enough points you get Y reward.

When I first started Eve (not on this acct) I wanted to be a mercenary. I figured "okay I'll fight for you, and you make it worth my while."

I thought alliances were basically a band of mercenaries, they band together and fight to take sovereignty, and they share in the rewards of that.

But in Eve people carebear in highsec, to send money to their PvP alt.

Or they carebear in the belts and spend their money on PvP.

PvP doesn't bring rewards, it IS the reward.

I still haven't found what I'm looking for, which is a way to fund my PvP that is highly passive, meaning I do ???? for 15 minutes a day and never have to rescue the damsel ever again.

I'm just looking for a way to cut out the garbage and get to the good stuff.

If I could PvP every day and never look at another asteroid belt again, that's my version of Eve happiness.

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 13:54:00 - [177]
 

@Cipher7 - Agree to an extent.

I forgot to add that mission running is boring as hell and that with exception of the arse-backwards NPC markets virtually every aspect of EVE is based upon a military industrial complex and so therefor there is virtually nothing you can do in EVE that isn't part of a greater PVP war machine. So really you can't play EVE in any capacity and say you are not interested in PVP.

Now, honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing some more constructive goals in EVE. I think EVE would be a lot more dynamic and interesting with a broad base of player types. As it stands now the game pretty much is moving towards, if not already there, the FPS gamer who likes spaceships. Which makes EVE a rather shallow universe but I can see how many would have no complaints.

But yeah, as it stands now, whatever you do in EVE is a part of PVP.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.27 16:54:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Cpt Fina

CCP has showed potential of standing up against the crowd and implement or hold on to unpopular gamemechanics before. This imo, is a sign of great integrity from CCP. Even more so if they were adviced against it from marketing.


Careful, hold someone's ideals (or your perception of their ideals) on too high a pedestal and you are guaranteed to be disappointed Wink

Admiral Serrano
Posted - 2008.03.27 17:11:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Raediearn
Carebears in NPC corps who stay in high security space all day and farm isk with no real risk and cannot be war dec'ed.
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
Maybe this has been suggested already.


I think you and others like you have no right or cause to demand changes to the game to force others to play as you believe they should.

Its arrogant, ignorant and completely against the spirit of this game and its wider community.

I also find it ironic that you cower in a NPC corp with an alt rather than posting with your main.

There are no "right" ways to play Eve-Online and there are no wrongs ways either.

Biirk
Posted - 2008.03.27 18:29:00 - [180]
 

{I dunno who may have already said this. I, am too busy to read all six pages of this stuff.}
{{But not too busy to gift you with my valuable insight. Thank goodness}}

~'Said they wanted to declare war on NPC corps. or get innocent players out of them, to where they could more easily ***** them at will.

Well if one did declare war on an NPC corp. That corps Friends would become Thier Ememy!

What happens when you declare war on State War Acadamy? Well, then probly you get attacked by NPC of that State whenever they see you. Right?

So to gank thier SWA 'As,,perations' in high sec. Well maby so if you can catch them out of Caldari space. 'Get Them!' on thier way to um, Ren. (or whatever that Minmatar Shopping mall is called) But you give up, the ability to haul your 'Pirate As,perations' in Caldari space. (or if you lust after Minmatar asperations, then it would be minmatar space you would recieve your just reward in and other places you could enlarge your smaller Eparts. Etc.)

This sort of thing might go well in with the 'faction war' thing comming up.



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