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Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:15:00 - [61]
 


My solution.

Raise all bounties and payouts by %15.

Add %15 tax to NPC corps.

Voila.

Suddenly if there is a corp with low tax rate, there is a benefit for me to join.

I'm not going to pay someone isk for the privilege of fighting for them.

I fight for you, YOU pay ME, not the other way around.

Maybe next you want me to wash your dishes and pay you a salary.

DrAtomic
Atomic Heroes
Chain of Chaos
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:16:00 - [62]
 

NPC Corps should have a scaling tax rate...

0-3 months = no tax
then for every month they are in a npc corp they'll get taxed 10% with each month adding another 10%, for every month he/she is in a player run corp they'll get one months of npc corp tax deducted.

So 4 months in npc corps means you would pay 10% tax, then if you'd stayed 4 months in a player corp you'd be able to go back to the npc corp and pay 0 tax again.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:21:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/03/2008 14:22:13
Originally by: Cipher7

My solution.

Raise all bounties and payouts by %15.

Add %15 tax to NPC corps.

Voila.

Suddenly if there is a corp with low tax rate, there is a benefit for me to join.

I'm not going to pay someone isk for the privilege of fighting for them.

I fight for you, YOU pay ME, not the other way around.

Maybe next you want me to wash your dishes and pay you a salary.


What is the point of taxing at 15% if you raise all the payout by 15%?

I do not see the logic. Doesn't mean it is not there, I just don't see.

EDIT: Keep payouts the same tax at 10-20% NPC corps, then you have a reason to move on to player corps. YOu should pay for the protection that the Empires and Concord provide.

Slade

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:28:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/03/2008 14:22:13
Originally by: Cipher7

My solution.

Raise all bounties and payouts by %15.

Add %15 tax to NPC corps.

Voila.

Suddenly if there is a corp with low tax rate, there is a benefit for me to join.

I'm not going to pay someone isk for the privilege of fighting for them.

I fight for you, YOU pay ME, not the other way around.

Maybe next you want me to wash your dishes and pay you a salary.


What is the point of taxing at 15% if you raise all the payout by 15%?

I do not see the logic. Doesn't mean it is not there, I just don't see.

EDIT: Keep payouts the same tax at 10-20% NPC corps, then you have a reason to move on to player corps. YOu should pay for the protection that the Empires and Concord provide.

Slade
What he's saying is that if you then leave the NPC corp for one with a 5% tax rate, you're going to get 10% extra for doing missions.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:31:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Originally by: Cipher7

My solution.

Raise all bounties and payouts by %15.

Add %15 tax to NPC corps.

Voila.

Suddenly if there is a corp with low tax rate, there is a benefit for me to join.

I'm not going to pay someone isk for the privilege of fighting for them.

I fight for you, YOU pay ME, not the other way around.

Maybe next you want me to wash your dishes and pay you a salary.


What is the point of taxing at 15% if you raise all the payout by 15%?

I do not see the logic. Doesn't mean it is not there, I just don't see.

Slade


Bounties and payouts go up %15.

NPC corp taxes me %15.

I gain nothing, I lose nothing.

Suddenly I see a PvP corp recruiting. %0 tax. Pew Pew.

I join, because I get an extra %15 income.

There is a benefit to me for joining.

Right now PvP is not a profession. It is an isk sink. It is a way to DISPOSE of your income.

PvP should be advantageous, people should have BENEFITS for doing it, to encourage it.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:44:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
Bounties and payouts go up %15.

NPC corp taxes me %15.

I gain nothing, I lose nothing.

Suddenly I see a PvP corp recruiting. %0 tax. Pew Pew.

I join, because I get an extra %15 income.

There is a benefit to me for joining.

Right now PvP is not a profession. It is an isk sink. It is a way to DISPOSE of your income.

PvP should be advantageous, people should have BENEFITS for doing it, to encourage it.



I see now. Now that is clear then that is why I said in my 1st statement that the NPC corps tax rate should really be between 20 and 30% considering the level of protection they recieve without any obligation to the Empire. The NPC player pilots have no obligation to logistics, protection of territory, etc. so all they do is profit. No Empire would stand for that. I say again NPC corp tax should be 25% or so.

Slade

SoftRevolution
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:45:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Raediearn
Carebears in NPC corps who stay in high security space all day and farm isk with no real risk and cannot be war dec'ed.
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
Maybe this has been suggested already.


Player corps are gay.

Amarth Thargan
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:45:00 - [68]
 

Why do some you people even play games? So what if someone has a trillion isks but doesn't fly around doing pew-pew?

If you want a lot of the precious isk you need to spend time on that aswell...the average age EvE is said to be 27, i think the forum's average age is 16: confused, eager to impress and unwilling to take responsibility for their own choices or acts.

SoftRevolution
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:48:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: SoftRevolution on 26/03/2008 15:02:47
Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2008 11:26:17
I think there needs to be a difference between an NPC starter corp and other NPC corps.

New players in a starter corp should have the same benefits as the currently enjoy, but with the same restrictions which are placed on trial accounts.

When they are ready they can move to an NPC corp of their choice (within RP background selectivity).
These NPC corps would be pretty much the same as they are currently, except they could be war dec'd, but with consequence.
The cost of going to war with this type of NPC corp should be much higher, and should include corp & faction standings penalties, and ultimately retaliation (Stations refusing docking, station guns firing, and ultimately faction navy support for the NPC corp).

A system such as this would also remove one of the obstacles which stand in the way of heavily nerfing suicide ganks.
It would also make a great starting point for factional warfare.


This, OTOH is an interesting idea.

Especially if you make empire standing more important somehow.

That's a real penalty for the guys missioning too.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:49:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

I see now. Now that is clear then that is why I said in my 1st statement that the NPC corps tax rate should really be between 20 and 30% considering the level of protection they recieve without any obligation to the Empire. The NPC player pilots have no obligation to logistics, protection of territory, etc. so all they do is profit. No Empire would stand for that. I say again NPC corp tax should be 25% or so.

Slade


Then PC corps will make their tax %35.

After all most of them are %15 now for no benefit and most people join them like tools.

The alliance game is not end game, it's midgame.

First you're a noob.

Then you join an alliance and all excited, then you find out you're a tool.

Then you go your own way and do your own thing. That's endgame.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:51:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Slade Trillgon

I see now. Now that is clear then that is why I said in my 1st statement that the NPC corps tax rate should really be between 20 and 30% considering the level of protection they recieve without any obligation to the Empire. The NPC player pilots have no obligation to logistics, protection of territory, etc. so all they do is profit. No Empire would stand for that. I say again NPC corp tax should be 25% or so.

Slade


Then PC corps will make their tax %35.

After all most of them are %15 now for no benefit and most people join them like tools.

The alliance game is not end game, it's midgame.

First you're a noob.

Then you join an alliance and all excited, then you find out you're a tool.

Then you go your own way and do your own thing. That's endgame.


LMAO!!! I can totaly see that happening. I will enjoy my noob times while I am there.

Slade

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:53:00 - [72]
 


Furthermore I propose a tax on trading.

If the big alliances want to bring freighterloads of moon minerals to hisec to trade, they should pay %30 for the privilege.

Nomakai Delateriel
Amarr
Ammatar Free Corps
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:54:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Amarth Thargan
If you want a lot of the precious isk you need to spend time on that aswell...the average age EvE is said to be 27, i think the forum's average age is 16: confused, eager to impress and unwilling to take responsibility for their own choices or acts.


No, not really. It's merely one more proof supporting John Gabriel's Greater internet ******* theory.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:54:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

LMAO!!! I can totaly see that happening. I will enjoy my noob times while I am there.

Slade


Oh yes it will happen youngin.

The alliance game is a mafia. Only the top %1 eat. The other %99 are dumb slaves.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:58:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

Furthermore I propose a tax on trading.

If the big alliances want to bring freighterloads of moon minerals to hisec to trade, they should pay %30 for the privilege.


I also propsed a tax on trading originally. Itmakes no since in a game system where taxes exist that profits from trading would not be affected by it.

Slade

Amarth Thargan
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:58:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Amarth Thargan on 26/03/2008 14:58:49
BTW why can't a pilot be independent? Or only affiliated by their race and bloodline. Would have been to simple maybe.

If you quit a corp one is put into a npc one automaticly. Instead of forcing people to either create their own or find a new one immediatly, you could give the option to be independent.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 15:02:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Amarth Thargan
BTW why can't a pilot be independent? Or only affiliated by their race and bloodline. Would have been to simple maybe.

If you quit a corp one is put into a npc one autmaticaly. Instead of forcing people to either create their own or find a new one immediatly, you could give the option to be independent.


CCP wants people to "get involved" and "mix it up" and "be part of the politics" but they never put in the mechanics to make that advantageous.

I can think of about a dozen ways to make Eve rock. And by that I dont mean a PVE game, but purely a PvP game with more destruction and an economy that isn't stagnant.

But it doesn't matter since there is no competing game, there is no reason for change, the subs will go up up up until a better company comes along to pick up the genre.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.03.26 15:06:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Overwhelmed
There are times when they discuss PC corps and many of them either don't feel ready - or even more commonly - haven't found a corp that stands out.

And there is the root of the problem. Newbies have 5,000,000 corps to choose from and they can visit the recruitment channel where they are subjecting to 10ish corps spamming identical sales pitches (usually promise of stuff for joining). The forums are similar in this regard.

So the point is, its not that newbies suck at leaving, its that you guys suck at recruiting - and if you're in one of those very common elitist "reference-only" corps, you also have no right to speak on the matter.
QFT

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:29:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 26/03/2008 16:29:35
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Why should anyone care how someone else chooses to play the game? They pay their money just as you do.



Because no-one plays Eve in a bubble.


I tell you what, pay my sub fees, and you can tell me how to play the game.

Deal?



You're confused. Pay his sub fees, and maybe he'll let you tell him what he can post on the forums.

I doubt it though.

Tsanse Kinske
WeMeanYouKnowHarm
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:41:00 - [80]
 

Edited by: Tsanse Kinske on 26/03/2008 16:41:46
Originally by: Cipher7

My solution.

Raise all bounties and payouts by %15.

Add %15 tax to NPC corps.

Voila.

Suddenly if there is a corp with low tax rate, there is a benefit for me to join.

I'm not going to pay someone isk for the privilege of fighting for them.

I fight for you, YOU pay ME, not the other way around.

Maybe next you want me to wash your dishes and pay you a salary.


I like this line of thought, though I don't particularly like the idea of subsidizing ratting and missions even more than they are already, especially over other isk-making activities.

Maybe base service, transaction, and broker fees could also be raised somewhat, and then discounted a little below where they are now for people in player corps.

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:50:00 - [81]
 

You're wasting your time with these kinds of ideas. For several reasons.

The only real protection an NPC corp gives a player is protection from wardecs.

Someone who doesn't want wardecs at all, ever, is not going to have them. They can simply make their own one-man corp and then bail if they get wardecced. This is not terribly inconvenient to do, only requires a few minutes of training, and costs very little isk.

The end result is that players who don't want to be wardecced have to live a miserable existence in a one man corp with nobody to talk to. But they still won't be able to be forced into PvP because they do not want to be.

There is no isk faucet. EVE is experiencing a deflation right now, despite all of the highsec mission running carebears. I wonder why.

Taxes for NPC corps probably wouldn't be a bad thing, but would penalize new players just for being new. I think having pitiful skill points and lack of experience is good enough.

Just leave it alone. The amount of players who actually enjoy living and playing in an NPC corp is pretty small and aren't really affecting you in the big picture. I see no reason to worry about it currently. Maybe if it becomes an epidemic...

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:54:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Amarth Thargan
BTW why can't a pilot be independent? Or only affiliated by their race and bloodline. Would have been to simple maybe.

If you quit a corp one is put into a npc one autmaticaly. Instead of forcing people to either create their own or find a new one immediatly, you could give the option to be independent.


CCP wants people to "get involved" and "mix it up" and "be part of the politics" but they never put in the mechanics to make that advantageous.

I can think of about a dozen ways to make Eve rock. And by that I dont mean a PVE game, but purely a PvP game with more destruction and an economy that isn't stagnant.

But it doesn't matter since there is no competing game, there is no reason for change, the subs will go up up up until a better company comes along to pick up the genre.
I think CCP does want the things you mentioned...but I'm also pretty sure they figured out early that there's no money to be made in forcing people to become serial victims. They are letting people find their own way and make their own fun - running a sandbox game, in a word. The rules are there to make sure that some groups don't trample all over others and drive the game under.

What those of you with a yen to make this a "pure PvP" game seem to miss is that there has never been a successful, purely PvP MMO to the degree you want (else you would all be playing it). Half of you only mean PvP in the context of "me ganking the defenseless crafters/industrialists". Sorry, no one is going to sign up to be victimized for very long. Why do you think UO introduced Trammel, and EVE put in Empire? The other half want all of EVE to be like low sec and 0.0. Great. Low sec is almost depopulated, so that won't do anyone any good. But what if every single high sec miner and it's player vanished tomorrow, along with high sec? My guess...mining alts would sprout all over null sec, and there would be immediate whining about how defenseless miners are, and how they need protection.

Lurana Jade
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:55:00 - [83]
 

Yawn*

Oh look Ma, yet another nerf Empire so I can shoot unskilled bears whine.

Go to LowSec if you want to shoot someone, I GUARANTEE you will have plenty of customers. Only thing is...there they know their buisness and you are likely to be putting your prong on the chopping block.

Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente
The Industrial Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:57:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Barzam
Carebears in NPC corps are not contributing to the online experience anyway. They are playing a solo game void of contact with other people. Just forget about them.

This is just so inaccurate it is not true.

Here is newsflash for all those player corp dwellers who can't understand why some people don't move out of newbie corps: because *gasp, shock, horror* there is a sense of community within those corps for those that intend to stay there. Strange I know, people actually interacting with each other in a MMO game.

That they are doing so in a fahsion that is different from how you do so in no way invalidates it. That your perception is inaccurate however does invalidate your comment, and the comments of several others here.

DOC PIC
Posted - 2008.03.26 16:58:00 - [85]
 

\☻/ I am in post # 432,123,569,879,001,999 about carebears and npc corps \☻/

Tellnan Matkiel
Gallente
The Industrial Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:04:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Avon

The thing is, quite often that is exactly what is happening.
Not direct attacks, but NPC corps are used not just by new players, or low SP players, but also as a "safe" way to provide industrial and logistical support to PvP organisations.

If that is the problem, which would apparently be pvpers acting like the carebear-stereotype they so despise, why seek to punish those people who are not complicit in such?

If the above is true your real problem is with you fellow pvpers. But then, that is the logical consequence of the easy use of alts in this game. I believe empire dwellers are constantly told to 'adapt or die'? It is a phrase that has wider application.

Bror yster
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:27:00 - [87]
 

Quote:
Carebears in NPC corps who stay in high security space all day and farm isk with no real risk and cannot be war dec'ed.
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
Maybe this has been suggested already.


Raediearn:
come to 0.0 for some real pvp, and stop whining on ppl in empire, seems your no better then the carebares your self.

flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:33:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Raediearn
Carebears in NPC corps who stay in high security space all day and farm isk with no real risk and cannot be war dec'ed.
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
Maybe this has been suggested already.


Get a life dumbass...WTF does it concdern you what someone does with his own playtime.Jeez idiots these days all cry cry about what a carebear does or does not.GET A FRIKKING LIFE PEOPLE.

Cybele Lanier
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:37:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: Decard Sune
The biggest question is why do you really care? Does it ruin your enjoyment of EVE that some players simply don't have the time and/or inclination to pvp?


Before I read these forums, I had no idea it was so hard for some players to find people who wanted to fight them.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:39:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: Cybele Lanier

Before I read these forums, I had no idea it was so hard for some players to find people who wanted to fight them.

There are plenty of people that want to "fight"; there are a lot fewer that aren't trying to gank you.

Everyone wants to be the ganker, not the gankee. Hence the whole reason behind the OP, to force more players to be gankees....


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