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Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.26 12:49:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 26/03/2008 12:52:54
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Just another "we want weak players for target practice" trolling thread. Not even going to bother replying to this garbage.


Yep.

There are a lot of griefers though who exploit NPC corp membership.

If there was to be a change, I think it should be this: You can stay in your initial NPC corp forever if you want, but once you leave you CANNOT rejoin a NPC corp, if you leave your player corp without joining another you should be forced to create a corp.



So you should be forced to train skills you are not interested in?

So when would become mandatory to know Caldari frigate at 1 or diplomacy or minign or whatever?


Originally by: Malcanis


POS?

Step #1: grind standings protected by NPC corp
Step #2: form 1-man corp, anchor tower etc.
Step #3: Create alt, make alt CEO
Step #4: return main to NPC corp.


And with that you do what?

Production? the alt must train the skill
Research? the alt must train the skills
Moon mining? the alt must defend it
ecc.

Very useful a POS in the hand of 1 man corp formed by an unskileld alt.

Dimebag Abbott
Posted - 2008.03.26 12:57:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon
Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 26/03/2008 12:44:24
I do not think there needs to be much done with NPC corps, starter corp or re-entry NPC corp. One of the primary complaints I have heard, in my short time, about player corps is that they tax their members.

I do not believe a single one of the factions would allow their people to milk the system without paying taxes. Taxes in NPC corps should be as high as 20% (EDIT: Maybe even higher /End Edit) to give an incentive to find a good corp that has a smaller tax or keep paying for the protection they are receiving. I mean the richer your player corp the better their defenses should be.

This would create a direct isk sink to one of the primary isk faucets (alt accounts), so to speak.

These are the opinnions of a newer member of the EVE community and one who has an alt that runs level one missions and plays the market and helps out rookies in the starter systems when I do not have the time to log on with Slade. Knowing that being productive with, Slade here, is a time sink, the rookie NPC alt gives me the oportunity to help out new players and maybe get a few solid players to join after the trial period. I would say that a tax on all my earnings, missions and trades, is not an unreasonable option considering the relative security that is provided by the Empire and CONCORD.

This is all in comparison to 0.0 life.

Slade



I play the market Rolling Eyes and that is all the PvP I want and I would not disagree with a tax.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.26 12:59:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Why should anyone care how someone else chooses to play the game? They pay their money just as you do.



Because no-one plays Eve in a bubble.


I tell you what, pay my sub fees, and you can tell me how to play the game.

Deal?



No, he pay my work rate and he can tell me how to play. If I should work under some other person direction I mean to be payd for the work.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:08:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Jakke Logan

I tell you what, pay my sub fees, and you can tell me how to play the game.

Deal?



Tell you what, you pay my sub fees and I won't use a bunch of alts and a locator agent to prove my point.

Deal?

Nick Endymion
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:10:00 - [35]
 

Gotta love what kind of horse manure the op is sprouting. When new player comes ot EVE, the oler players make sure to let em know what they should do before they can do anything i.e. having 10 mil sp before flying anything bigger that tugboat. Then comes the suicide ganks in empire, after that we get this. Some pvp douchebag who wants even easier targets because he is bored of gate camps with his blob friends.

Pvp with your own league, nubs will come when we're allowed to fly something we fancy after we get premission from older players to be something else than cannon fodder (which we still be since there's no way to comppete with resources and sp that older players have, unless you play over year straight)

Point being is that shut the **** up and go tell your daddy how to make children. Then you know how usefull it is to tell other people what they should do.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:21:00 - [36]
 


But if you nerf NPC corps, how will SirMolle get his moon minerals to market? Laughing

Hayane
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:22:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Jakke Logan
Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Jakke Logan
Why should anyone care how someone else chooses to play the game? They pay their money just as you do.



Because no-one plays Eve in a bubble.


I tell you what, pay my sub fees, and you can tell me how to play the game.

Deal?



We have a winner! Cool

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:26:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Raediearn
Carebears in NPC corps who stay in high security space all day and farm isk with no real risk and cannot be war dec'ed.
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders. This would give those in player corps a tangible advantage and provide an incentive to get out of the NPC corps which are really for new players only.
Maybe this has been suggested already.

What about non-carebears in NPC corps who do not stay in hi-sec?
What about carebears in huge alliances which (realistically) cannot be war dec'ed?

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:26:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Nick Endymion
nubs will come when we're allowed to fly something we fancy after we get premission from older players to be something else than cannon fodder (which we still be since there's no way to comppete with resources and sp that older players have, unless you play over year straight)


I personally love being the cannon fodder!!! At least if we are trying to kick someone up and out of their safe spots I am the one that is warping around trying to tackle their ship, alot more adrenaline running then sitting at the gate waiting for someone to warp in.

Slade

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:27:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Avon
These NPC corps would be pretty much the same as they are currently, except they could be war dec'd, but with consequence.
The cost of going to war with this type of NPC corp should be much higher, and should include corp & faction standings penalties, and ultimately retaliation (Stations refusing docking, station guns firing, and ultimately faction navy support for the NPC corp).

That would make sense.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:39:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Nick Endymion
Gotta love what kind of horse manure the op is sprouting. When new player comes ot EVE, the oler players make sure to let em know what they should do before they can do anything i.e. having 10 mil sp before flying anything bigger that tugboat. Then comes the suicide ganks in empire, after that we get this. Some pvp douchebag who wants even easier targets because he is bored of gate camps with his blob friends.
1) Don't let anyone else tell you what to do, including the dink that says that you must have "10 mil sp before flying anything bigger than a tugboat." My combat alt is 6 mil sp, and has been flying a battleship effectively for a month, now, and made great use of a battlecruiser since she had 3 mil sp.

2) I think your last sentence sums up the OP's intent fairly well. As much as people are tired of the "nerf suicide ganking" whine threads, the "force people into lowsec so I can pop them" and "I want more people to wardec" whine threads are just as old. CCP should not be forcing anyone into anyone else's play style any more than the rules already permit...and anyone who doesn't want to PvP or doesn't feel ready should have a viable way to avoid most of it.

Originally by: Nick Endymion
Pvp with your own league, nubs will come when we're allowed to fly something we fancy after we get premission from older players to be something else than cannon fodder (which we still be since there's no way to comppete with resources and sp that older players have, unless you play over year straight)
Again, there is no "permission" or "allowed" or "own league". It's all about focus, not total sp. Earn your sp in the areas that will do you the most good for your chosen profession, and soon you'll be more than able to compete, even if the other guy has 5 times your SP. Let's put it this way: one of those high-SP (two years old, in fact) pvp players recently wardec'ed the corp I'm in, none of which has been playing for more than 9 months. By your viewpoint, we should have been dead meat. Instead, he took out one afk and a tackler, and then got attacked by small groups often enough that after four days he took off and hid as far from us as he possibly could, until the wardec ran out.

Point is, the OP seems to just be bugged that he can't wardec and pop all the younger characters that still aren't completely familiar with the ins and outs of PvP. Equally, there are people that want to keep their exposure to PvP to a minimum, and he figures they have lots of faction items he's being denied the chance to loot. It's a harsh, cruel world, isn't it OP?


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:42:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Annaphera

Point is, the OP seems to just be bugged that he can't wardec and pop all the younger characters that still aren't completely familiar with the ins and outs of PvP. Equally, there are people that want to keep their exposure to PvP to a minimum, and he figures they have lots of faction items he's being denied the chance to loot. It's a harsh, cruel world, isn't it OP?



Of course it is equally possible that he just wants all players to have to play on an even field, without some taking advantage of unearned protection from the game mechanics.

Just sayin'.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:49:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Avon

Of course it is equally possible that he just wants all players to have to play on an even field, without some taking advantage of unearned protection from the game mechanics.

Just sayin'.


But doesn't everyone have access to those same game mechanics? Including you?

Just sayin'.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:50:00 - [44]
 

It is a simple fix tax all NPC corps 20% on all earnings and never increase the current rewards for missions to counter this balance. This will slow down that isk faucet a tad and has easy RP explanations. Read my 1st post on 1st page for that explanation.

Slade

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:50:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Cipher7

But doesn't everyone have access to those same game mechanics? Including you?

Just sayin'.


Good call.
Let's scrap all player organisations.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:55:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Avon
Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2008 11:26:17
I think there needs to be a difference between an NPC starter corp and other NPC corps.

New players in a starter corp should have the same benefits as the currently enjoy, but with the same restrictions which are placed on trial accounts.

When they are ready they can move to an NPC corp of their choice (within RP background selectivity).
These NPC corps would be pretty much the same as they are currently, except they could be war dec'd, but with consequence.
The cost of going to war with this type of NPC corp should be much higher, and should include corp & faction standings penalties, and ultimately retaliation (Stations refusing docking, station guns firing, and ultimately faction navy support for the NPC corp).

A system such as this would also remove one of the obstacles which stand in the way of heavily nerfing suicide ganks.
It would also make a great starting point for factional warfare.


I like this concept except the restrictions on Rookie corps to be the same as trial accounts. My alt occasionally give small amounts of isk to help new players that i deem worthy. Everything else I like.

Slade

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:56:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Annaphera

Point is, the OP seems to just be bugged that he can't wardec and pop all the younger characters that still aren't completely familiar with the ins and outs of PvP. Equally, there are people that want to keep their exposure to PvP to a minimum, and he figures they have lots of faction items he's being denied the chance to loot. It's a harsh, cruel world, isn't it OP?



Of course it is equally possible that he just wants all players to have to play on an even field, without some taking advantage of unearned protection from the game mechanics.

Just sayin'.
If they were attacking you from behind that protection, rather than using it EXACTLY as it seems to have been intended, then you might have a case. They either don't have the skills and/or ship they feel they need for PvP, or are playing the game to relax, not for the twitch pure PvP'ers are. It's their call, and CCP put in a mechanic to give them the option if they're willing to give up the benefits of a player corp.

As it is, the OP's idea would make a target-rich environment for those wishing only to pop others who are not prepared or equipped to fight back. Whether or not that was HIS intent is a matter of debate (though I think it's pretty obvious), but that would be the result. Total SP matters very little beyond a point, but until then the person who has more fully trained for their ship has a distinct advantage.

My advice to the OP - go wardec a merc corp or something if you want the thrill of PvP. If all you're after is easy targets, go whine to your corp buddies...we don't want to hear it.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:57:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Slade Trillgon

I like this concept except the restrictions on Rookie corps to be the same as trial accounts. My alt occasionally give small amounts of isk to help new players that i deem worthy. Everything else I like.

Slade

I meant specifically the skill restrictions, but I was not clear about that.
By bad.

Loyal Servant
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:00:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Avon

Of course it is equally possible that he just wants all players to have to play on an even field, without some taking advantage of unearned protection from the game mechanics.

Just sayin'.


But doesn't everyone have access to those same game mechanics? Including you?

Just sayin'.


NO!
They do not have access to the same mechanics.
A noobcorp member or group of members can do as they want almost without retaliation.
Take isk farmers.... cannot hurt them very easily.
Cannot wardec a noobcorp...

So, do they have access to the same mechanics?
For the most part, yes... but no, not really.
They get a different set of rules to play by which includes reduced risk.


Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:01:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Slade Trillgon

I like this concept except the restrictions on Rookie corps to be the same as trial accounts. My alt occasionally give small amounts of isk to help new players that i deem worthy. Everything else I like.

Slade

I meant specifically the skill restrictions, but I was not clear about that.
By bad.


Got ya. Then yes I agree with that also. So all of your first post plus a 10% tax on all earnings.

Slade

Overwhelmed
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:03:00 - [51]
 

Actually, if any of you dolts even made an alt in an NPC corp for even 5 minutes, you'd realize the majority of the players are trial accounts, less than 3 months old (not enough skills), with maybe one player who has been playing for a couple years and still likes to talk to newbs.

There are times when they discuss PC corps and many of them either don't feel ready - or even more commonly - haven't found a corp that stands out.

And there is the root of the problem. Newbies have 5,000,000 corps to choose from and they can visit the recruitment channel where they are subjecting to 10ish corps spamming identical sales pitches (usually promise of stuff for joining). The forums are similar in this regard.

So the point is, its not that newbies suck at leaving, its that you guys suck at recruiting - and if you're in one of those very common elitist "reference-only" corps, you also have no right to speak on the matter.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:04:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Loyal Servant
Originally by: Cipher7
Originally by: Avon

Of course it is equally possible that he just wants all players to have to play on an even field, without some taking advantage of unearned protection from the game mechanics.

Just sayin'.


But doesn't everyone have access to those same game mechanics? Including you?

Just sayin'.


NO!
They do not have access to the same mechanics.
A noobcorp member or group of members can do as they want almost without retaliation.
Take isk farmers.... cannot hurt them very easily.
Cannot wardec a noobcorp...

So, do they have access to the same mechanics?
For the most part, yes... but no, not really.
They get a different set of rules to play by which includes reduced risk.


Are you REALLY trying to make us believe you only want this so you can go after isk farmers?? Please, if you find someone who buys this, give me their name. I've got some ocean-front property in Kansas I'd like to sell them!

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:06:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Overwhelmed
Actually, if any of you dolts even made an alt in an NPC corp for even 5 minutes, you'd realize the majority of the players are trial accounts, less than 3 months old (not enough skills), with maybe one player who has been playing for a couple years and still likes to talk to newbs.

There are times when they discuss PC corps and many of them either don't feel ready - or even more commonly - haven't found a corp that stands out.

And there is the root of the problem. Newbies have 5,000,000 corps to choose from and they can visit the recruitment channel where they are subjecting to 10ish corps spamming identical sales pitches (usually promise of stuff for joining). The forums are similar in this regard.

So the point is, its not that newbies suck at leaving, its that you guys suck at recruiting - and if you're in one of those very common elitist "reference-only" corps, you also have no right to speak on the matter.
I'd also add that the better corps seem to have pretty heavy restrictions on how many SP you must have to join, especially those with a null-sec presence.

Loyal Servant
Caldari
The Knights Templar
Strategic Operations Brigade
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:06:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
Are you REALLY trying to make us believe you only want this so you can go after isk farmers?? Please, if you find someone who buys this, give me their name. I've got some ocean-front property in Kansas I'd like to sell them!


Actually, yes.
I hate empire and the only reason I go there on occasion is to harass a farmer in his mission.
I don't hunt players anymore.... the days of TSBS are over.

Mardig
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:06:00 - [55]
 

Stupidest thread ever. Evil or Very Mad

cRazYf1St
tempered steel
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:08:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Raediearn
with no real risk

Suicide ganks, mission invasions, etc
No real risk ? I think not.
Quote:
and cannot be war dec'ed.

So what ?
Quote:
I think they should have to pay higher taxes and broker fees when placing market orders.

You think wrong.
Quote:
NPC corps which are really for new players only.

Says who ? You ? Devs say otherwhise. Devs >>> You



arrogant much? please be a little more polite it's only ideas.


Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:08:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Mardig
Stupidest thread ever. Evil or Very Mad

This. Sad

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:12:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: Cipher7

But doesn't everyone have access to those same game mechanics? Including you?

Just sayin'.


Good call.
Let's scrap all player organisations.


Yes lets.

The problem isn't npc corps.

The problem is that corps in Eve don't have a point or a use.

How many billions did you spend fighting for BoB?

How many billions did they collect from you in taxes?

And what was the benefit to you?

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:13:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Avon on 26/03/2008 14:15:43
Originally by: Annaphera

If they were attacking you from behind that protection, rather than using it EXACTLY as it seems to have been intended, then you might have a case.

The thing is, quite often that is exactly what is happening.
Not direct attacks, but NPC corps are used not just by new players, or low SP players, but also as a "safe" way to provide industrial and logistical support to PvP organisations.
The problem with NPC corps has nothing to do with new players (which is why proposal treats them seperately), and everything to do with artificial layers of protection being abused by players who wish to avoid the consequence of conflict.
This could be pirate alts replacing ships or selling loot; or PvP alts earning ISK or grinding faction ammo to fund their fighting; or entire alliance industrial organisations using the game mechanics to protect the weaker parts of their infrastructure; or one of a whole bunch of other alternatives.

The aim of my proposal (rather than the OP's) is to protect new players, whilst making it possible for a determined foe to engage those who seek unearned protection, whilst making the consequences high enough that more casual "easy target" war decs are effectively put off.

The upshot of that may be that it becomes possible to take a harder line in the mechanics involving suicide ganks, which are currently the only way to target people "hiding" their infrastructure.

Ultimately the aim has to be to try and keep everyone happy, and even make things more interesting (such as faction warfare consideration).
I think my proposal could get close to that, but as ever the devil is in the detail. The idea is sound, it is just a case of finding the right "numbers" to throw in to balance it.

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:15:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
Originally by: Mardig
Stupidest thread ever. Evil or Very Mad

This. Sad


As stupid as it may be I would expect more out of your post, or not expect one at all.

Originally by: Mardig
Stupidest thread ever. Evil or Very Mad


Excellent contribution. Thank You. 0_\

Slade

Feel like trolling today?


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