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blankseplocked Eve is a cold, dark, harsh place - oh, really?
 
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Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:05:00 - [61]
 

Quote:
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).


Umm... What?

Have you played wow? Stop posting.

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:05:00 - [62]
 

Quote:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.


If there was one colossal mistake CCP made in the initial development of EVE is allowing alts on the same server as their mains. All games have rules in order to function as a game. If you allow people to circumvent the rules the game breaks down to the point of being unplayable. CCP can apply all the small fixes they want, patch the tire a million times, but sometimes the simplest solution is the best one, change the tire.

Ace Frehley
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:15:00 - [63]
 

If you fly t2 ships, the insurence is pretty useless. So for newer players who fly t1, insurence is good.

Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:39:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
First, I get to stand around and laugh when you try to go through a gate without a scout and get ganked. On a more serious note, removing alts on the same account is useless when only one character per account can train skills; removing multiple accounts would not only be very difficult (How do you prove two accounts are the same person?), financially harmful to CCP, but also ultimately pointless in game where eventually every character can have every skill anyway. Using disposable alts to get around sec loss is already considered an exploit...I think that's enough.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
Trade, null sec mining, low sec hauler ganking, insurance fraud, high sec mining, exploration, owning a T2 BPO, owning a well-researched large T1 ship BPO, invention...do I need to go on? It all depends on your definition of "easier" and "with less effort". Many of the above are even safer...want to nerf the lot?
Originally by: Bklyn 1
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
With some provision made for allowing people to defend themselves somehow, I'd agree. As it is, however, local is also the main defense miners have from suicide gankers - without it, they would be effectively sitting ducks. You notice that the Jihad still managed to nail 800 or so exhumers, even with local?
Originally by: Bklyn 1
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
Payouts on suicide ships need to be removed. Otherwise, insurance provides some means for newbies to replace a lost ship. Those that fly T2 ships aren't really covered, nor are the faction fittings on the ships the mission runners end up in. I think insurance is working just fine.
Originally by: Bklyn 1
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).
Apparently they can, since high sec gate camping is alive and well, and it is by far the hardest form of camping. I sense the whine of a camper who sees all the smart people with high-value goods getting by him, while he's left preying on the less common morons with high-value goods. Thy tears are sweet indeed...

Originally by: Bklyn 1
Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.
Well, Ctrl+Q as a defence I'm not too keen on, but if you can't see the 'cold, dark, harsh' part of EVE, you've been sitting in a station knitting, or not playing the same game I am.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:43:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Iain Cubair
Originally by: Bklyn 1

2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.



Trade.


And high sec ganking.

Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.26 18:28:00 - [66]
 

It might not be all that rough but it's harsh compared to the other MMOs I've played.

Although when I played the beta, jumpgate's pvp could be pretty harsh and you couldn't warp away to safety.

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:01:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Benco97
Originally by: Ulstan
Alts are practically mandatory.

The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training



None of these things need an alt. They just need the player to "man up" and do it alone


Read. Think. THEN post. You fail.

I'd love to see you open a cyno alone.
Every activity you can't do on your own with one account is CCP practically begging you to open another alt account so you *can* do it. See the repeated power of two ads.

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:07:00 - [68]
 

you know what would be hardcore?

110 volt 1 second electric shock for every time you lose a ship.
And when you get podded, your PC motherboard gets fried.

Imagine what combat would mean then! I'd still pvp, just much more carefully Smile

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:07:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Originally by: Benco97


None of these things need an alt. They just need the player to "man up" and do it alone


Read. Think. THEN post. You fail.

I'd love to see you open a cyno alone.
Every activity you can't do on your own with one account is CCP practically begging you to open another alt account so you *can* do it. See the repeated power of two ads.


Or get a friend.

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:14:00 - [70]
 

Quote:
Or get a friend.


Boring and oft repeated activities that require a friend = deliberate appeal to alts.


Ulstan
Posted - 2008.03.26 19:16:00 - [71]
 

Quote:
To earn any decent amount of ISK from Trading usually involves taking huge economical risks that may or may not pay off, so is generally a lot 'riskier' than most would think.


You can make tons of money trading without even leaving your station, with virtually no risk whatsoever.

The only risk to major financial loss is if you're engaged in long term market manipulation or speculation.

Is a risk that can be completely eliminated through planning and intelligence really a risk?

Bklyn 1
Posted - 2008.03.26 20:54:00 - [72]
 

Edited by: Bklyn 1 on 26/03/2008 21:04:29
Originally by: Dahak2150
Originally by: Bklyn 1

1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.



Says the 2 year newbcorp character with no standings to speak of...


Quite true. But that doesn't make it right. FYI, I've never logged this character in since he was first created and I'm posting with him so as not to offend those that know the real me (and use all these things that make Eve NOT a cold, harsh place).

Nonetheless, I would be the first to sign off on getting rid of alts, not that they would ever do that.

In any event, I do not fault players from using these mechanics if they are available. Just stop pretending that Eve is so cold and harsh because it's not. Colder and harsher than any other game? To my experience, yes (and yes, I did try WOW, but just for a short time, on the recommendation of some friends who were playing it, and quickly realized the error of my ways).

But people like to throw around this cold, harsh phrase to justify buffoonery and pretend that they are so leet. It's only cold and harsh when it is the other guy complaining about something. That is just silly.

Djinn Phluxx
Posted - 2008.03.27 03:28:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Arana Tellen
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).

Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.


4) WOW does not have this because you dont loose anything when you die Razz otherwise I can understand the other points.


You do take damage to your gear, though, and there's no way to insure against that. For the average player that doesn't have 40man raid teams in his/her pocket, even cloth repair adds up fast.

Sybbiana Dawning
Posted - 2008.03.27 04:45:00 - [74]
 

Well, for what its worth, I actually use my character slots for actual characters. I'm not consumed with maximizing every single millisecond of training time to make some super uber character. I enjoy having several characters with distinct personalities and specializations. So, I'm rather against removing the ability to create additional characters as well as marking other characters on an account as an alt. Besides, we all seem pretty capable of spotting an alt anyway, right?

nihlanth
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.27 04:59:00 - [75]
 

Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?



...You don't want to to know.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2008.03.27 05:01:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: nihlanth
Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?



...You don't want to to know.


is it an alliance with a photoshopped tiger as a logo?

nihlanth
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.27 05:05:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: nihlanth on 27/03/2008 05:06:12
Originally by: Marcus TheMartin
Originally by: nihlanth
Do you know what else is a cold, dark, harsh place?



...You don't want to to know.


is it an alliance with a photoshopped tiger as a logo?


Hmmm, I didn't even realize that was a tiger, let alone any sort of tangible person, place or thing. Thought it was a new form of abstract art? Surprised

Tecknoblaze
Priory of Empire
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2008.03.27 05:07:00 - [78]
 

I have to agree with the OP. EVE seems to have gotten a lot more newb friendly with all the welcome help pages and whatnot as well.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2008.03.27 05:10:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Tecknoblaze
I have to agree with the OP. EVE seems to have gotten a lot more newb friendly with all the welcome help pages and whatnot as well.


Noobs are good

Motsu communes are bad

Shakuul
Caldari
RuffRyders
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.03.27 07:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).

Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.


1) That wouldn't matter, since you could multi account.
2) Yes, trading.
3) Good point.
4) Replacing your ship is a much bigger hassle than ghostwalking in WoW, but yeah insurance is excessive.
5) WTZ was added mostly because of bookmarks...also because travelling blows. If you want to stop them get a bubble or a scram.

If you really wanted to make it hardcore, remove clones.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:11:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Shakuul


5) WTZ was added mostly because of bookmarks...also because travelling blows. If you want to stop them get a bubble or a scram.

If you really wanted to make it hardcore, remove clones.


1.Shuttles, and agility fitted ships in highsec
2. WTZ was added because of bookmarks only

Kyra Felann
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.27 08:36:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Ulstan
Alts are practically mandatory.

The alt to check if you're jumping into a station camp
The alt to see what's outside the station since you don't have windows
The alt to put up a cyno field
The alt to check prices in a different region
The alt to do POS logistics
The alt to experience a part of the game your main couldn't experience without 5 more years of training

There are all kinds of ways in which alts are encouraged. Then of course they also do things like let you haul stuff for your pirate chars or scoop loot after a suicide attack.



Eve is not a single-player game. None of those things need alts. What do you think corporations are for?

I only have one character and I have no alts and somehow I've managed.Rolling Eyes

Mika Meroko
Minmatar
Crayon Posting Inc
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:01:00 - [83]
 

1) so... what about the people with 3+ accounts? (most ppl I know who are past half a year and hooked on eve have atleast 2....)
2) Scamming, 0.0 ratting... *used to go semi afk ratting while looking up girly pictures too... but requires you to be an alliance slave. And.. yeah, importing Mining barges BPOS... some people would pay abit *granted, market is over saturated now* to get the bpos into high sec. oh, and yeah, I made more money manufacturing/playing the market than I do missioning..*hell, I havnt shot at any npc in a long time on my main...oh.. and T2 materials are HOT right now..*well, hotter a month or so ago....processed materials are GREAT isk...
3) yeah, no arguments there...
4) We USED to NOT have insurance when eve started.. but back then, nobody wants to pew pew as much (too expensive)... so, insurance was added to soften the blow... and helps facilitate pew pew (that was before T2 stuff was introduced...)
5) meh, you can still kill them on the other side of the gate... =P in fact, WTZ creates a false sense of security =P..

6) meh, is all marketing jorgan... advertising... thats all... but is cold... and dark in certain regions =P... the harsh part is provided by all the gankbears... =P


Primnproper
Posted - 2008.03.27 09:39:00 - [84]
 

My alts are merely my mains slaves so whats not dark and brutal about that.

For instance this slave is made to post my opinions on the forum because my employers have a policy against posting here Razz

Though my favourite slave is my minmatar slave, i often make her perform acts of piracy within her races space, thus earning me money, making her feel dirty inside for attacking her own race and lowering her races opinion of her to the point where she isn't allowed in their most secure systems, of course she's not to happy about this but thats whats the vitocs for Twisted Evil


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