open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Eve is a cold, dark, harsh place - oh, really?
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2] 3

Author Topic

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.26 01:33:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Sereifex Daku
Originally by: Hasak Rain

How do you figure that they are "very hard to do on one's own?"

Seriously, don't post on things in which you have no clue.


You may ask me how I have come to this conclusion, but only an arrogant **** would assume that I know little about this. Level 4 missions are somewhat difficult for the majority of players. That is what I have learnt from talking to many players, as well as doing them myself. It is, I assume, because of this that I have encountered a lot of people who do level 4s with others.

So, if you are missioning with others then you shouldn't complain if these missions were to be moved to low sec.


No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.

The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.

I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.

If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.

Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.03.26 01:39:00 - [32]
 

Insurance has to go really... It mostly benefits suicide gankers, real PVPers use T2 ships / rigs / costly fittings anyway.


Sereifex Daku
Firestorm Projects
Capital Storm
Posted - 2008.03.26 01:39:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 01:40:01
Originally by: Hasak Rain

No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.

The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.

I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.

If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.

Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.



Fair enough. I only do missions every now and then, so I conceed that you are right on this point.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.26 01:47:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Sereifex Daku
Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 01:40:01
Originally by: Hasak Rain

No sorry but they are not difficult unless you are a new player just now making the transition from lvl 3's to 4's and don't know what to expect or are just now getting the skills to fly a Battleship. Yes, they would be difficult to anyone under 5-10 million SPs depending on where those pts are spent.

The only lvl 4's which are even remotely difficult are Worlds Collide and The Blockade and even those are easy once you learn the tricks.

I do all lvl4's solo in a T2 fitted Raven or Geddon. No Faction equipment whatsoever. Hell, I don't even have T2 guns or Launchers for either ship as I am really a Minni pilot.

If you fly into one with a bad fit or have no clue to what you are doing or no beforehand kwowledge of the missions, then yeah, they will be hard. Just like anything else in this game, you have to prepare and know what you are doing.

Regardless, Go to the Mission board and tell everyone how they are too difficult to solo so I can watch 100 people laugh at you. You clearly don't know what you are talking about.



Fair enough. I only do missions every now and then, so I conceed that you are right on this point.


Well you are the first person here to ever admit I am right about anything. Laughing

I apologize for sounding so gruff. It is just that you never really know what someone's agenda is when they post something and your post just sounded like propaganda to send lvl4's into Low sec. If that was your intent, you would have a better argument mentioning how much easy isk is made off of them.

If mission running didn't bore me to tears, i would probably be a trillionare in this game but I can never stomach doing more than a couple a day when I do them.

Daelin Blackleaf
White Rose Society
Posted - 2008.03.26 02:04:00 - [35]
 

1) Alts.

I hate the presence of alts, but I finally gave in and got myself one a few months ago. The problem is that having an alt in EVE simply provides so much benefit that it pays for itself and opens up a lot of options. Cyno's, supercapitals, and outlaws being locked out of the market hubs would be my top three reasons on why they might be almost mandatory for some players.

2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.

Trade. Very Happy

3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"

Coming soon I hear.

4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists.

So that people don't quit before they learn how to make at least a couple hundred mill a week.

5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape.

I'm a big fan of WTZ, it's sadly made EVE a lot smaller but it's also made a lot less dull. I also recall having more bookmarks than there could ever be considered healthy for the game.

OP has made a very good point, EVE is colder, darker, and more brutal than most on-line games but it is not some mystical realm of hardcore leetness that some players think it should be. Why? Because it's a game and it's a business.

Sereifex Daku
Firestorm Projects
Capital Storm
Posted - 2008.03.26 02:26:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Sereifex Daku on 26/03/2008 02:27:12
Originally by: Daelin Blackleaf

OP has made a very good point, EVE is colder, darker, and more brutal than most on-line games but it is not some mystical realm of hardcore leetness that some players think it should be. Why? Because it's a game and it's a business.


Sure, but wasn't the game a lot more unforgiving when it first came out? Did the game crash and burn, leaving CCP penniless?

I hear this argument far too often these days, and I believe that CCP has always been successful by doing the opposite to other companies. Any member of the oh so hated marketing department would tell any company to make a game based on wizards and goblins! Won't that be fun...Instead, CCP made EVE, a game about spaceships, a realistic game that encourages people to feel adrenaline when their ship is in danger. CCP is losing that particular edge imo. EVE is far too stable and predictable now.

Grim Vandal
Burn Proof
Posted - 2008.03.26 02:31:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).

Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.


It is a shame ccp went the carebear way imho.
u are da man, fix this and I will love ccp again



Dahak2150
Arm of Orion
Posted - 2008.03.26 02:53:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1

1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.



Says the 2 year newbcorp character with no standings to speak of...

couger malthas
Amarr
Violent Purge PLC
Posted - 2008.03.26 03:20:00 - [39]
 

Edited by: couger malthas on 26/03/2008 03:21:36
Originally by: Bklyn 1
I keep seeing words to this effect, but it simply is not so. To prove that it is not, I present the following:
1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.
2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.
3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"
4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).
5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).

Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.



FFS stop your crying, thats all i hear on the forums now is a buch of children crying because its not what they want... i started in second gen, and alot has changed since then, you know what i did? I changed with it... i got over it, i learnt to deal with it. So i got a plan for you there grow up, shut up or GTFO.

and Insurance is a good idea, its like buying a car, crap happens you need the little bit of help to pay the dmg off.

Faife
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.26 04:50:00 - [40]
 

Fix 0.0, remove all clones. You die, you reroll

Or wait, you mean "make the game hard for everyone else" again, m'bad.

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.03.26 06:05:00 - [41]
 

First point is main 'harsh cold universe breaker', rest of the points are just pebbles next to mountain.

So alt's eh? Main point why they break the 'cold and harsh' part is that you can use them to avoid results of your actions. Using them to scam, haul your stuff during wars or into low sec if you are outlaw, post smack and flames in forums, suicide scouts and so on.

As long as it is possible to avoid results of your actions it's going to be soft and pink and with padded walls.

Victor Forge
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.26 07:45:00 - [42]
 

1. Agree, remove alts already!

2. Move out lvl 4 and casual players and PvE players will do lvl 3s in high-sec instead and complain that the game is a damn grind comparable with Linage 2. If anything this will mean fewer will go to low-sec since it will take longer time to replace ships lost in PvP.

3. Agree. Remove local chat.

4. WoW has a free 100% insurance for being killed in pvp. Meaning they can be killed dozens of times every hour in battlegrounds etc and can pvp for weeks before they need to farm anything for an hour to replace ammo etc. Insurance in EvE is somewhat odd, it is making it pointless to stop bots in Industrial ships doing lvl 4 quality 20 trading missions 23/7 in low-sec, they will lose nothing of being destroyed or even podded.

However how much do one get back of losing a fully T2 fitted Sacriligie? Not much. You have just insured the T1 hull of a Maller. Meaning that pirates using such ships only attacks when they are 100% sure they will win. In the end encouraging Gatecamping and blobs, since that will decrease the risk.

Imagine what will happen with no insurance at all.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.03.26 07:50:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Rawr Cristina on 26/03/2008 07:50:27
Originally by: Benco97
My personal feelings on your points are as follows:
3) I agree, something should be done really, local is a powerful intel tool.
5) I was much happier with eve before WTZ was introduced, I've not lost a ship ONCE to pirates since WTZ.


me either. It's silly really. If you fit for travel and have any sense whatsoever the chances of you dying in low-sec are incredibly low.

oh and QFT^

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.03.26 08:50:00 - [44]
 

Really, those ideas must not be handled black and white. The 2 concerning me in particular are alts and local.

I understand that it would limit too much, if one can only have one character per account. And basically, i don't see a problem with having the ability to create 3 or more caracters. The point with alts is their disguise. Possible options could be, that one has to choose a main, and if you click on "show info" on any non main char, u should see that. Problem solved.

Local is a bit harder, as u can't simply remove it. Possible options could be, that one can chose to apear in local or not, but being always visible in constelation. If he's not in local, he obviously shouldn't be able to read or write. Probably there should be kind of station/agent service to check local .. or check recent stargate activity like who jumped in and out in the last 10 - 60 minutes fe. The only problem i see there is, without local one may just undock into a fleet of hostiles hanging in front of the station. Imho this would be stupid, as no one would undock if he can see the ships hanging in front of it by simply looking through the window. Yeah, a station service to check jump in/out systems and scan the starbase surrounding like at least 500km could do the trick. And cloacked ships shouldn't appear on the starbase scan Twisted Evil

Changing local would really be my main request for a change in EvE, as i see it the main reason why people avoid fights with even or bad odds, resulting in a lot of waiting outside system. Also having hostiles only in constelation would add a lot of new tactical options.

Ilvan
Gallente
Post with your Brain
Posted - 2008.03.26 08:58:00 - [45]
 

The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.

Arakidias
The Legion of Spoon
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.26 09:20:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Ilvan
The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.


The problem is that it also gives a huge income boost to ccp :)

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:03:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Arakidias
Originally by: Ilvan
The problem with alts isn't having more than one character per account (because you can't play them - or even train them - at the same time), it's the fact that having two or more accounts grants a huge advantage in just about every aspect of the game.


The problem is that it also gives a huge income boost to ccp :)


I would not have big objections if all my characters over all my accounts would be condensed into one supercharacter altho it would rise slight problems about what to do with say 3 sets of caldary battleship lev 5 for example. Ofc it would be uncomfortable as between 4 accounts I have total 10 character (most of em just out of box lab alts with week of training running 9 labslots each).

It would create some really 'super' characters tho. Imagine a character you get by merging say 4 x 70 mil chars over one user accounts :)

Liu
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:10:00 - [48]
 

i agree with all the points, except warp to zero. i can't believe how with the technology present ingame, ships are unable to warp as close to the gate as they want. so, for me, WTZ is a good thing

about insurance, i think that like on real life, it should be voided by ilegal acts. it is stupid that high sec suicides get 90% of their ship value back. but regular deaths (on missions, "when you are working for the government", i believe the insurance is ok)

Roxanna Kell
Anormalii S.A.
Vera Cruz Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:22:00 - [49]
 

You all just say i agree, wow. whatever. Besides asking for Constellation means that you can spot your enemy further away, if you remove local, it means you remove local.
No alternatives.

As for eve is a cold dark place, Thats just advertisment for you, you ve been misslead by more than just ccp marketing team.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:41:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1

1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.


Well, people use alts to escape from ******ed mechanics. I know I have a hauling alt / selling alt (both 800K SP, pure win) to be able to actually, you know, play the game (mostly) solo. I still have to harrass other people to haul me ships. I'd fully support their removal, but some mechanics are a bit too idiotic and need changing.

At any rate, multi-accounting is even more annoying, there's already a ton of people with falcon alts and crap.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:45:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
Insurance has to go really... It mostly benefits suicide gankers, real PVPers use T2 ships / rigs / costly fittings anyway.




Ha ha, nonsense.

Iain Cubair
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:53:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1

2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.



Trade.

Burnharder
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:08:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Bklyn 1

1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.



Well yes, but when you have "Uber" gate-camping mechanics, alts and meta-gaming become necessary for travel, particularly in certain ship classes.

Originally by: Bklyn 1

2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.



My guess is a large proportion of people doing Level 4's in high-sec are mission alts of PvP'ers. They need to quickly pay to replace stuff lost in combat and this is one of the ways they do it.

Originally by: Bklyn 1

3) Local. For goodness sake, you can see your (known) enemies coming from a mile away. Why is this not changed to "Constellation?"



Again, huge thread on this recently. My personal opinion is that removing it is fine as long as you can balance it properly. I think the social aspect of the game would be nerfed quite a bit if you did so though.

Originally by: Bklyn 1

4) Insurance. Explain to me again why this even exists. You won't find a more carebear game mechanic anywhere, (WOW included).



Agreed. I don't like it either. It's particularly useless for T2 stuff, which I mainly fly and doesn't cover mods, which are often more expensive than the ship.

Originally by: Bklyn 1

5) Warp to Zero. Can we make it any easier to escape (please not that I support WTZ because I hated bookmarks or sitting staring at a station or gate doing nothing while I'm waiting to get there).



Agreed, I supported WTZ as well. It's done wonders for my will to live when playing Eve.

Originally by: Bklyn 1

Throw in all the non-game mechanic metagaming like logging off because people are terrified of being on a kill mail and I really don't get the cold, dark, harsh part.


It's said to be "cold, dark and harsh" only because it encourages a lot of ass-hattery (and therefore attracts those kinds of players) without consequences.

Kharadran Sullath
Caldari
Subordination
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:58:00 - [54]
 

1) 1 character per account? To what end? If alts are to be of any use they have to be on a second account. So, what exactly would that solve again?
2) Step 1. Join corp in alliance with safe 0.0 space. Step 2. Rat for 50-60mil/h.
3) Agreed. 100%.
4) It may need some alteration, but I don't see the point as it is now.
5) Camp both sides of the gate. Too bad for pirates camping in lowsec/highsec border systems. But they could always camp both gates in a border system.

Logoffski also needs a serious nerf. Worst, mechanic, ever. Make a logoff timer starting after you've entered pvp combat like every other good mmo has.

Noxic
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:13:00 - [55]
 

CCP = COD

Cyberman Mastermind
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:48:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/03/2008 13:48:59
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
5) WTZ has destroyed my perception of the EVE universe. It used to feel good playing in a vast universe. Now it jsut feels as small as Azeroth.

Out of curiosity, how often do you leave your home system, what was the largest distanced travelled?

If I'd be to guess, I'd say once a month and perhaps 3 jumps.

If WTZ really destroyed your perception of the Eve universe, I suggest doing extensive travels - something like 10 to 20 jumps - ideally in a freighter, so you'll learn to appreciate the benefit of WTZ in regard to travel time.
But perhaps you simply don't value your time, and don't mind waiting mindlessly?

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.26 13:51:00 - [57]
 


Nah mechanically eve is not harsh.

Just slow and boring at times.

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:51:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Cpt Branko
Originally by: Bklyn 1

1) Alts. If Eve were a cold, harsh place, there would be no alts. 1 character per account. Live with the results of your actions tough guy.


Well, people use alts to escape from ******ed mechanics. I know I have a hauling alt / selling alt (both 800K SP, pure win) to be able to actually, you know, play the game (mostly) solo. I still have to harrass other people to haul me ships. I'd fully support their removal, but some mechanics are a bit too idiotic and need changing.

At any rate, multi-accounting is even more annoying, there's already a ton of people with falcon alts and crap.



Even if faction navies are a crappy game mechanic (midsec is much needed) removing alts completely would majorly improve piracy , in many ways. Eve's failure as a social game is twofolds : overly profitable highsec life , and easy autonomous lowsec life.

The reason the fracture between carebears and pirates is so large is that neither party directly needs the other to survive. Carebears just keep running missions in highsec , free of worries (until they fall prey to highsec piracy mechanics) and pirates can shoot each other if there's nothing else to do. Without alts , it wouldn't be possible to survive as an outlaw without making money from piracy. Currently , lots of people who treat lowsec as a pvp arena do.

The current game balance does nothing to encourage cooperation between industrialist and combat specialized players in empire. Piracy loses its meaning as its focus shifts from stealing to killing.

If I want a battleship moved to lowsec , I have to pay at least 5m to a reliable third party to get it delivered. With alts , it is free of charge - autopilot to last highsec , scout for your own alt , board ship with main. Yellow friends are not of any use to a pure outlaw corp , they offer nothing alts can't do.

Industrialists offering to build ships for us in exchange for standings ? Nope , we got our own production alts. Researchers offering free BPCs if we stop shooting their research POS ? Nope , we got our own research alts. Day old newbie impressed by our corp , wanting to help but not even combat capable ? Right , we prefer to use our scout alts. Turncoat in an antipirate corp contacting us ? Who cares , we already have a spy alt there.

CCP failed to protect Eve's RP background , so the game's depth is half of what it could be. Alts shortcircuit half of the needs for interaction in the game. Removing them would go a long way to fix long time issues like bounties , being unable to pod yourself surely makes a large bounty much more significant and trust (with friends and corpmates) much more valuable.

I'm an altless outlaw , my game experience is as hardcore as its gets in Eve. Still I'm not satisfied with the challenge - so make the game harder for me and more involving for everyone.

Sereifex Daku
Firestorm Projects
Capital Storm
Posted - 2008.03.26 14:58:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Cyberman Mastermind
Edited by: Cyberman Mastermind on 26/03/2008 13:48:59
Originally by: Sereifex Daku
5) WTZ has destroyed my perception of the EVE universe. It used to feel good playing in a vast universe. Now it jsut feels as small as Azeroth.

Out of curiosity, how often do you leave your home system, what was the largest distanced travelled?

If I'd be to guess, I'd say once a month and perhaps 3 jumps.

If WTZ really destroyed your perception of the Eve universe, I suggest doing extensive travels - something like 10 to 20 jumps - ideally in a freighter, so you'll learn to appreciate the benefit of WTZ in regard to travel time.
But perhaps you simply don't value your time, and don't mind waiting mindlessly?


I don't really have a home system. I jump about all over the place. I used to find it fun, now it feels like opening the map in Guild Wars and insta-teleporting to wherever I click on.

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.03.26 17:04:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Iain Cubair
Originally by: Bklyn 1

2) Level 4 missions in high-sec. Is there an easier way to make isk with less effort? If so, please let me know what it is.



Trade.


To earn any decent amount of ISK from Trading usually involves taking huge economical risks that may or may not pay off, so is generally a lot 'riskier' than most would think.


Pages: 1 [2] 3

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only