open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked Before you whine, read this:
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

Author Topic

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:17:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Vikarion on 25/03/2008 08:18:40
First, I hope this isn't considered spam or a rant.

Now, this is for all of you carebears and piebears out there, from me, a fellow bear. I've been noticing an increasing torrent of whines about suicide ganking, JihadSwarm, etc., and I'm getting a little tired of it. So, I'd like to make a few things clear.

What part of "cold, uncaring universe" do you not understand?
Seriously, if you want to play a game that doesn't end up with you losing a ship/module/implant/exatic dancers/etc now and then, play WoW. Or DDO. Or Guild Wars. Or something else. For the love of pretty girls named Susie, what makes you think that this game, in any way, is designed to cater to people who want to play it safe? Sure, you have stuff like Concord, but that's mainly to make it possible for the more-risk-averse to survive. Not to be a vault for all your pretty little toys.

CCP is not interested in making you safe. That's not what they plan for the game. So whining on the forums isn't going to get you anywhere, 9 times out of 8. If anything, CCP may increase the Insurance payout, and increase Concord response times, just to get you guys to finally leave. (Well, maybe not. But please pretend they will, ok?) I know I'm starting to consider it in a good light. You are not guaranteed safety. Anywhere. Ever. Ever. Ever.

No one cares
Period. If they say they do, they're lying. No one cares about the 2 months it took you to get that CNR, or that Hulk, or the many hours you've spent training for that battleship that you just spent all of your money on right before you undocked it in front of R.E.P.O. Your freighter that went up in smoke? Too bad. Can I have your stuff?

In EvE, you can either hack it, or you can't. The rest of us frankly aren't interested in what you think of the other person, or what you think of CCP, or how you think that the game should be changed to fit YOUR play style. What we are interested is in taking your stuff. Or keeping you away from our stuff. And we may be mildly impressed by people who take their losses well.

If you died, it was probably your fault.
Goonswarm didn't kill you, you killed you when you AFK mined without setting them to -10. Shinra didn't suicide gank you, you suicide ganked yourself when you decided to fly a ship with more mods on it than its worth. You jumped into low-sec? Your fault. Undocked during a war in front of TRAPS? You. Used smartbombs in hi-sec trying to kill rats? Yup. You dumb.

Just because you can fly a CNR with officer fit doesn't mean you should. Just because you canAFK mine in Perimeter doesn't mean it's a good idea. When you take certain actions, you assume certain risks. And if you can't be bothered to investigate the risks of what you are doing, well, we can't be bothered to care much, either.

Learn a little perspective
Just because you lost a hulk doesn't mean you have to quit the game. A while back, I lost a nicely fit CNR to a couple of twerps who pulled a variant of the Lofty trick on me. I got careless, and paid for it. I was steamed, partly because I was so dumb, partly because I hadn't even managed to use it with all the nice fittings on it, partly because I only had 100 million left in the ol' wallet. But, oddly enough, I didn't suddenly find myself canceling my accounts or screaming on the forums. I simply got over it.

Every setback in this game offers you the chance to come back better, stronger, and smarter than before, while having fun. You may derive great enjoyment from piloting a hulk, but who says you can't enjoy the journey getting there again? I recently went back to running level 1 and 2 missions, and it was still fun. There are always new challenges, new fittings, new ways to do things that can give them a new twist of flavor while you climb your way back to the top.

Perhaps one of the greatest features of EvE is that it's never really over, for anyone.

Unless you buy ISK.

Mikey mike
Gallente
Heretic Militia
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:21:00 - [2]
 

[quote=Vikarion
No one cares


Myshella Drake
Caldari
Omega Exploration And Reclaimation
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:27:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Vikarion

Every setback in this game offers you the chance to come back better, stronger, and smarter than before, while having fun.


QFT, this is one of the greatest things about EVE IMO

Riho
Gallente
Drop of Blood
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:34:00 - [4]
 

good post by the op :)

well written

Zaqar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:39:00 - [5]
 

Agreed, but I fear you are preaching to the choir.

The people who whine only come to the forums to whine. They are paying customers, don't you understand? Why should they have to *read* something to inform themselves?

But good post anyway.

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:40:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Vikarion on 25/03/2008 08:40:51
Yes, Zaqar, so I fear. But every one I reach and redeem makes a difference, no? Laughing

EDIT: ZaqaR. Oops. "R", not "m".

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:43:00 - [7]
 

I honestly believe that most of the suicide ganking and Kiddieswarm threads are created by goon alts disguising themselves as victims to keep bringing attention to the subject.

Most of the people who really need to read your post probably never actually read the boards because if they really can't handle this type of game, they would have quit already.

As much as you are tired of the whining, I am tired of whining about the whining. Seems like there are more threads lately from Vets trying to make themselves sound "hardcore" and willing to educate the masses about how EvE's pixels are sooooooo harsh than there are people actually making threads about getting ganked in high sec.

Danui
Gallente
Intaki Liberation Front
Posted - 2008.03.25 08:49:00 - [8]
 

You know, i think of myself as a noob. I play the game for about 3 weeks and when i notice some posts about people loosing there ships when the go in lowsec space i always try to understand why the hell they do it.

I don't even think about going to 0.4 or below, knowing what danger awaits me. If i loose my ship i know it would be my fault because i didn't ask my corpmates to come with me or by flying a very slow ship that isn't meant to be alone in lowsec space.

You made a very good post and i can only second it. The first week i played eve, i read lots of topics, lots of advices so i would know how to be safe out there. if people whine about loosing, most of the time is't because the didn't read the board.

Of all the mmo's i played (wow,lotro,guild wars,...) this community is the best. You get the best answers and have lots of good guides thet tell you almost everything you should know about the game so please, read before you play and stop whining...

Just my 2c

mahj
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:00:00 - [9]
 

One Question? if all you say is true then why did zombie corp get banned? and within hours of ganking in empire....of course it might be before yr time

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:01:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Danui
You know, i think of myself as a noob. I play the game for about 3 weeks and when i notice some posts about people loosing there ships when the go in lowsec space i always try to understand why the hell they do it.

I don't even think about going to 0.4 or below, knowing what danger awaits me. If i loose my ship i know it would be my fault because i didn't ask my corpmates to come with me or by flying a very slow ship that isn't meant to be alone in lowsec space.

You made a very good post and i can only second it. The first week i played eve, i read lots of topics, lots of advices so i would know how to be safe out there. if people whine about loosing, most of the time is't because the didn't read the board.

Of all the mmo's i played (wow,lotro,guild wars,...) this community is the best. You get the best answers and have lots of good guides thet tell you almost everything you should know about the game so please, read before you play and stop whining...

Just my 2c


Ditto. Pretty much the same thing I did. I make no claims to be hardcore, I'm just a little tired of seeing "change this! nerf that! boost x! get rid of y!"

Vikarion
Caldari
State Trade Consortium
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: mahj
One Question? if all you say is true then why did zombie corp get banned? and within hours of ganking in empire....of course it might be before yr time


Zombie got banned because he/they exploited Concord rules. Well, actually, they didn't get banned for that, they got banned for that AFTER a GM asked them to stop, IIRC.

CCP has always held that Concord will destroy suicide gankers. But they have not made, and will not make, hi-sec into a safe-zone.

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:18:00 - [12]
 

Now, this is for all of you gankers and grievers out there, from me, a little carebear. I've been noticing an increasing torrent of whines about suicide ganking, JihadSwarm, etc., and I'm getting a little tired of it. So, I'd like to make a few things clear.

Seriously, if you want to play a game that doesn't end up with you losing a ship/module/implant/exatic dancers/etc now and then, play any other MMO. bla bla, what makes you think that all players in eve have to adopt your playing style?

CCP is interested in making money. That's what they plan for the game. So whining on the forums isn't going to get you anywhere, as ccp will not care about your playing style rather than loosing customers.

No one cares
Period.If they say they do, they're lying. No one cares about you, being unable to pick easy targets in high sec. You quit eve cause you can only fight in low/zero sec? Too bad, but good luck finding another MMO that gives you that much pvp experience. btw ... i don't want your stuff.

In EvE, you can either hack it, or you can't. The rest of us frankly aren't interested in what you think of the other person, or what you think of CCP, or how you think that the game should not be changed to fit YOUR play style. What we are interested in is, having fun playing the game. And we may be mildly impressed by people who take their restrictions well, in order to provide fun for EVERY playstyle.


Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:19:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: mahj
One Question? if all you say is true then why did zombie corp get banned? and within hours of ganking in empire....of course it might be before yr time

For ignoring GM instructions.
But you knew that, right?

Malbolge
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:21:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Malbolge on 25/03/2008 09:21:13
Originally by: Vikarion
What part of "cold, uncaring universe" do you not understand?


The part with high security space where the gankers can't be shot on a whim by anybody when they undock without concord interfering. The part where gankers actually get insurance money after they do what they do. Why, that's practically warm and fuzzy!

Originally by: Vikarion
No one cares
Period. If they say they do, they're lying.


Translation: I don't care, some other people don't care, and I have a selective memory that has filtered out the comments of anyone who doesn't agree with me.

Originally by: Vikarion
Just because you can fly a CNR with officer fit doesn't mean you should.


Progression: reserved for pvpers!

Originally by: Vikarion
Learn a little perspective


Learn to understand that it is not enough to sweep game design problems under the rug of "eve is a harsh place." Or else give 0.0 POSes the hitpoints of a Mackinaw and we'll shrug it off with the same justification.

Because in the end it is not the loss of a Hulk that makes people want to leave. It is the fact that there is no meaningful way to get revenge.

P.S.: Flying down to goon space and shooting them or hiring mercs to do so is not revenge, it is feeding the monster.

Vanessa Vasquez
Quantar Swords
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:28:00 - [15]
 

nicely said Malbolge Very Happy

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:39:00 - [16]
 

This post has been cleared of inappropriate content.

Regards,
The EVE Online Moderation team

Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Naqam
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:40:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Myshella Drake
Originally by: Vikarion

Every setback in this game offers you the chance to come back better, stronger, and smarter than before, while having fun.


QFT, this is one of the greatest things about EVE IMO


I agree. I originally had a 2003/05 char, then a 2004/02 char... but lost both and have nothing whatsoever ingame to show for it either - but I still play and IMO I have more fun flying PvP Drakes than I ever had flying Carriers Confused

so /signed

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:41:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Malbolge
A post where Malbolge complains that everyone is treated equally by the game mechanics.


And?

What should we do?

The solutions must come from expanding existing mechanics, or refining them in a way which is aligned with Eve's core values.

Insurance - bit meh with me, scrap the lot or keep it as is - don't really care which.

Market revenge - Absolutely agree that people should be able to restrict sales as they choose (as mentioned elsewhere)

Civilian defence - I suggested elsewhere ablative shields/armor mods - vastly increase HP, but no ability to repair the extra amount in any way. Make it expensive. Doesn't eliminate suicide ganks, but makes the requirement for participating ships much higher.

The solutions to perceived problems is not to whine or moan about them, or name calling.
Try a more constructive approach which suggest real improvements to the game, more complexity; not dumbing down or nerfing.

mahj
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:41:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Avon
Originally by: mahj
One Question? if all you say is true then why did zombie corp get banned? and within hours of ganking in empire....of course it might be before yr time

For ignoring GM instructions.
But you knew that, right?

nullyou didnt read my whole post?"if all you said"he saidthat ccp didnt care and if that was true there would have been no banning by devs. They did care and it took a crapload of work for them to replace all the ships

Malachon Draco
eXceeded
Posted - 2008.03.25 10:08:00 - [20]
 

I don't see the point of this topic. Eve is a cold harsh place, true. But if people wanna complain and try to convince the Devs to change certain mechanics, why not let them go ahead and try it. People have the right to complain.

I've never been suicide ganked so I don't really care either way, but if they for example ask for insurance not to be paid out to people getting concorded for suicide ganking, I'd be fine with that.

Malbolge
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:06:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Malbolge on 25/03/2008 11:45:46
Originally by: Avon
A post where Avon totally mischaracterizes Malbolge's but then continues on with some excellent suggestions.


Yes, I am all for any solution that adds complexity and is in harmony with EVE's brutal spirit. The following has just popped into my head: how about asteroid mines that a)require a lot of specialized knowledge about asteroids to use and are consequently usable only by highly skilled miners and b)only deployable in 0.0? Perhaps covertly deployable in a suitably cat-and-mouse way. Much fun could be had making life interesting for alliance mining ops, one might think. I doubt I am the first to think of this and undoubtedly the devil is in the details, of course.

Edit: Or, you know, tradable kill rights and a tweak to the insurance system, if you want to be all serious about it and don't like imagining asteroids going boom.

In any case, OP and you make very different points. Yours are sensible and I have little more to add. OP, on the other hand...

Exile Devaltos
Caldari
Ministry of Destruction
SCUM.
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:09:00 - [22]
 

Epic.

Skram
Armored Elite
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:22:00 - [23]
 

I endorse this message.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:50:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 25/03/2008 11:53:55
Originally by: mahj
One Question? if all you say is true then why did zombie corp get banned? and within hours of ganking in empire....of course it might be before yr time
Zombie got banned because they refused to obey the GMs.

If they had packed up and gone home when they were told all would have been fine although you're sort of right because CCP did make adjustments so that it wasn't possible to repeat the camp.

Some of us are old enough to remember Yulai. I'm one. My mate actually lost his noobish frigate to it (which made me laugh quite a lot).

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.25 11:52:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 25/03/2008 11:54:51
Deleted.

Nemesis Kai
Posted - 2008.03.25 12:04:00 - [26]
 

It seems to me that a lot of the miners are really leaving or complaining because they had a system where they used to be able to mine with Exhumers in sectors that offered them no threat and mass profit.
Now that situation has changed to what EVE was always ment to represent, a very dangerous enviroment no matter what security level you are in they simply can not deal with it. They threaten to leave or do leave because suddenly kindergarden got a little dangerous or call for all sorts of nerf's to protect them.
Now I can understand that it's harsh to lose your ship but the Goonswarm has given clear warning of its intended actions and where you would be left in peace should you want to mine.
Now these areas of peace are dangerous area's themselves and require organised corps to be able to mine with any success so I guess this is not the enviroment they desire either.
Trouble is the enviroment that these players do desire is not what EVE was ever intended to be about, so I guess they will either have to adapt or leave.

Agif
UnderDog Industries
Free Trade Zone.
Posted - 2008.03.25 12:07:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Zaqar
Agreed, but I fear you are preaching to the choir.

The people who whine only come to the forums to whine. They are paying customers, don't you understand? Why should they have to *read* something to inform themselves?

But good post anyway.


Agreed we all know its the minority that get ****ed off :)

You have to be cruel to be kind to teach some ppl :)

Malbolge
Posted - 2008.03.25 12:12:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Malbolge on 25/03/2008 12:13:16
Edit: response to a deleted post.

Thenoran
Caldari
Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2008.03.25 12:14:00 - [29]
 

I remember when I jumped into Low-sec (0.4 Otsela from Hentogaira...I know) for the first time with my cute Badger Mk II with my first load of Mexallon, I was like..."I'm gonna make 5 mil!".

Naturally when I jumped my ship got ganked so fast I didn't even get time to see the bars go red and I was back in my clone in High-sec with killrights to this shifty -10 Neomaximus character.
I was ****ed (especially that bit from Aura "Haha, you got killed you silly pilot" or something), but I lived with it, mined three times as much Plagio, sold it in Highsec and went on from there.
I learned my lesson, Low-sec is a deathtrap.

Now I'm working towards the point of having my own POS...heh...

Pax Ratlin
Gallente
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2008.03.25 12:15:00 - [30]
 

From one carebear to another

Well Said! Very Happy


Pages: [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 ... : last (11)

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only