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blankseplocked scrapped, gonna post an even simpler better idea presented to me soon
 
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Rob Buie
Little Garden
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:08:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Rob Buie on 24/03/2008 20:35:26
I'm scrapping this post, thanks to Willow Whisp theres a way more effective idea thats worth posting once I put a little more thought into it and hash it out.





Through conversations with past mmo peers of other games I've learnt there must be a significant enough population of mmo'ers that becuase trial time tends to not provide enough time/information for a new player to understand he isn't placed at any unecessary disadvantage by not being able to specialise effectively in a tech 2 ship within the first two months of play CCP is missing out on profit, and EvE is missing out on having more quality players. What a mouthful that run-on sentence was.
Further I guarantee there are people being turned off by the inability to actively effect their characters statistical progression in a meaningful fashion. Nevermind that tech 1 pvp is effective in 0.0 considering the minimal monetary loss at any death, in a 14/21 day trial he never gets to experience this. So heres a suggestion to 'trick' the new player into thinking he can actively level like any other mmorpg without actually breaking the game mechanics in any way. I would appreciate any and all well thought out criticisms.

Skillpoint boosters:

These would be low cost items that could be used until your character has reached 8 million sp. They would enhance your skill training rates.

***Any character above 8 million sp would not be able to do this.***

-In my envisionment I see different ranked boosters which affect your training times in various degrees but require exponentially more time for even faster skilling rates beyond the initial booster.

Why do I feel this isnt broken or should infuriate anyone? 8 million sp for the new player would only define specialisation in tech 2 frigate and cruiser class ships. No sane, worthwhile, new player would tolerate not flying these ships for the sake of accelerating his training speed towards capital ships.

Of course the numbers I present are very much up for debate but heres what my dream would be, each booster would affect your skilling rates for a week and would be remarkably cheap because of their limited effectiveness (8 million sp cap)
100% faster skilling: 500,000 isk
200% faster skilling: 4,000,000 isk
300% faster skilling: 32,000,000 isk
400% faster skilling: 250,000,000 isk

This way its basically 8x more farming to receive a 100% increase compared to the previous booster. For most missioning or empire mining the 100%, 200%, and 300% would be the most reasonable booster. Those that were 0.0 grinding might go the extra mile, but ultimately everyones receiving a huge benefit but only for a very limited time.

Currently if one wants to call tech 2 cruiser class ships the initial 'endgame' of EvE, CCP is asking players to wait 3-5x longer than one would actively grind in any other mmorpg to reach endgame level. This would create a more initially appealing leveling system to those transitioning from other mmorpgs. It would trick the new player into thinking he can grind level long enough to realise that EvE doesnt revolve around that.

Frankly those of you who still hold that such a feature would be game-breaking, I ask are tech 2 frigates and cruisers really defined by being able to just pilot them? or is it their remarkable cost that defines when one would choose to fly these? I feel what defines when I'd opt to use tech 2 is whether I have the confidence to put this ship on the line which comes from user skill, not character skill. Otherwise i'll pilot in a fully insured ship and do as much monetary damage to my opponent as possible. 15 battlecruisers lost for the sake of taking down 3 hac's is still a monetary win (mind you other factors do come into play mainly the ability of each side to produce ships at a necessary rate).


Benco97
Gallente
Terraprobe Dynamics
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:11:00 - [2]
 

They do not know the meaning of disadvantaged in terms of SP these days, learning skills, ADVANCED learning skills and implants! Good gods...

When am I going to be retroactively credited all those SP I wasn't just given when I started?

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:14:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: "Rob Buie"
and EvE is missing out on having more quality players.


No, it isn't. Quite the opposite. The solution you propose would ensure we get exactly the kind of player we don't want.

I'll let you figure out why, because honestly, I really don't feel like rehashing this conversation yet again.

Rob Buie
Little Garden
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:17:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Rob Buie on 24/03/2008 19:22:08
Originally by: Benco97
They do not know the meaning of disadvantaged in terms of SP these days, learning skills, ADVANCED learning skills and implants! Good gods...

When am I going to be retroactively credited all those SP I wasn't just given when I started?


But in a competitive game you were at no disadvantage and therefore deserve no retroactive credit. Today tech 2 is far more a staple of pvp than it was for those who came to the game prior to their introduction. The nature of competitive games is that the only reason to be infuriated is when an opportunity is being provided to another you dont have at that exact moment. Today the opportunity not being provided is the ability to fly tech 2 in a reasonable amount of time now that it is such a far more meaningful staple of pvp.

Take an fps, everyone is provided the same opportunity and the only thing thats reflected is player skill. Hacking is when one is provided an opportunity others dont have access to, or choose not to access becuase its gamebreaking and ruins the element of player skill. Here EvE also has to manage the issue of supply and demand though. The rarity of capital ship pilots still makes them a valuable commodity to compete for, but the majority of tech 2 cruiser class ships pilots does not make them any kind of resource to compete over. this should be recognised

Rob Buie
Little Garden
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:19:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Rob Buie on 24/03/2008 19:19:29
Originally by: Willow Whisp
Originally by: "Rob Buie"
and EvE is missing out on having more quality players.


No, it isn't. Quite the opposite. The solution you propose would ensure we get exactly the kind of player we don't want.

I'll let you figure out why, because honestly, I really don't feel like rehashing this conversation yet again.


So you feel a player who likes to grind in some fashion is a worse player? Trying to make such an argument is clearly unfounded in a game that revolves around a full fledged economy based around grinding. If all resources came from moon mining you'd have an argument, but the fact is grinding fuels this game. I'm sorry you really need to elaborate if your to argue that EvE is not based around grinding, or argue that the current EvE playerbase is not a quality playerbase. Both are equally stupid arguments.

000Hunter000
Gallente
Missiles 'R' Us
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:47:00 - [6]
 

remembers the time there were no advanced learning skills, and the highest imp u could get were +3's costing u a ffing fortune! so pretty much impossible to get for a noob player.

Stop whining and start playing allready.

DmitryEKT
Clandestine.
Posted - 2008.03.24 19:58:00 - [7]
 

I fail to understand what you're saying here. Are you claiming that players leave because they think they can't get hacs fast enough? If that's all someone wants from eve, then it's no big loss to see them go. I've been playing... 3 and a half months now... got my battleship and a couple t2 frigates (inty and af) and the way I see it, that's pretty alrite- you shouldn't get everything in the game instantly, you shouldn't be able to fly a dread in your first year. Eve is not about that. It's a long game, and if you're looking for an instant "you win" button, you won't find much support for it here. I like how long it takes to get a new ship, I like how drawn out it is, because once you get there, you feel a totally different sense of achievement compared to what you would if you did it some easy way. Next thing you know, you'll be suggesting that up until a certain cap, they sell SP directly for ISK. Oh wait, that's what you're saying anyway. It's unneeded, the current system is fine as it is, and I don't see that someone who doesn't realise what eve is about in the first few months, will do so by getting a hac 4x faster. Eve is not about the ships. Eve is not about the combat. Eve is not about the mining. Eve is about the people, the politics. If you fail to understand that eve is about the people rather than the items, you may aswell go and play a singleplayer game, for you will find it just as enjoyable.

Tippia
Caldari
Sunshine and Lollipops
Posted - 2008.03.24 20:09:00 - [8]
 

As a representative of the "new player" contingent, I'm wavering on this issue. On the one had, I want to say "no"; on the other hand, I want to say "hell no!".
Originally by: Rob Buie
Currently if one wants to call tech 2 cruiser class ships the initial 'endgame' of EvE, CCP is asking players to wait 3-5x longer than one would actively grind in any other mmorpg to reach endgame level.
This is the fundamental problem with your reasoning: there is no endgame in EVE, so technically, CCP are asking players to wait infinitely longer.

It's what sets EVE apart from the run-of-the-mill MMOs, and is one of the main reasons I felt it was worth joining, even though "the oldtimers" had half a decade's head-start: they are no closer to the endgame than I am.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.24 20:10:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp
Originally by: "Rob Buie"
and EvE is missing out on having more quality players.


No, it isn't. Quite the opposite. The solution you propose would ensure we get exactly the kind of player we don't want.

I'll let you figure out why, because honestly, I really don't feel like rehashing this conversation yet again.


Exactly this.

Fortunately, the OP's suggestion isn't even remotely likely to be implemented, so i won't waste any more time on it.

Lori Carlyle
Posted - 2008.03.24 20:18:00 - [10]
 

TBH, I find that the SP/Hour thing is great!

No rushing off to get the latest and greatest items & it gives you time to learn the game.

Need a lvl 70 on WOW fast.. just get 2 of ya mates to help quest ya!
Need a Carrier in eve fast... TOUGH FRACKING LUCK.

Rob Buie
Little Garden
Posted - 2008.03.24 20:31:00 - [11]
 

after talking in game with Willow Whisp hes presented an even better idea. I'm scrapping this post altogether.


 

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