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blankseplocked Current: Outdated Clone = Loos of SP = Loss of money - Possible fix?
 
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Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.23 11:14:00 - [1]
 

Currently when you have an outdated clone you loose SP when you die. That's about the same as if you loose money. Money that you invested in months of training...

How about fixing it like that: When you die and your clone is outdated, you still loose SP, but they aren't gone for good... The often wanted "dual skill training" would be a good fit for that...
What about changing the whole "loss of SP" in that way:

When you die, you still loose SP, but it's more like a temporal amnesia. You remember more and more of the stuff you learned in all those months before. Maybe there would be something like "it'll take two weeks until your amnesia wears off"...
Ingame that works like that: You cannot train the skills where you lost the SP until they are restored. While you're training skills you want to learn, those skills you lost SP on are showing "progress" as well, representing how you overcome the amnesia.
However, if you loose SP again while already under the effects of amnesia, those SP you lost before - and aren't restored yet - are gone for good.

Let's put that to an example: Let's say Player XY flies through 0.0 and comes across a player that likes shiny explosions and has no brain to speak of. The other player shoots Player XY and while his Pod breaks he realizes that he forgot to upgrade his clone.
Player XY looses 20.000 SP in Amarr Frigate and currently can't fly his slicer back to the clone station to upgrade his clone. Player XY can still fly around and train for Caldari Cruisers while his Amarr Frigate skill slowly regenerates 20.000 SP over a week.
However, a few days before that time is over, he flies his new caldari cruiser for a round across the belts and player "Me likes shineh explosion" shoots him and just before Player XY's pod breaks he realizes that he wanted to fly somewhere to update his clone... Player XY now looses all SP that were not regenerated on Amarr Frigate because he looses 1.000.000 SP on spaceship command and needs to remember what he learned there...

Godd idea? Bad idea? Give me some feedback please...

Akane Miyamoto
Habitual Euthanasia
Dystopia Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.23 11:45:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Akane Miyamoto on 23/03/2008 11:47:31
It's been like this for years and I really don't see any reason to change it.. It's worked fine for all those years and I've been really happy to loose my SP if I make the mistake of not updating my clone.

Sure. It stings. But it's become a solid part of EVE that has worked for as long as it's been ingame. Why change it?

The idea itself seems pretty nice but there's one two point, one of which I just pointed out. Second one is that it would create further calculations to the serverside thus increasing the used resourced and possibly creating a lot or a little more stress to certain parts of the server software or database

Y3R M4W
Posted - 2008.03.23 13:15:00 - [3]
 

Ok, here's what I think:

I think that when our ship or pod is 'destroyed', instead of actually dying and meaning something, it all just goes back to the station with your clone. I mean, it's completely insane that we should have to think or worry about losing a little ISK to being pod killed, or ship killed.

In fact, I believe that space is far too harsh an environment for us to be expected to play in. Tbh it'd be far more suitable on an environmentally varied planet, running around in armor with axes.

Rolling Eyes

Sahjahn
Caldari
Temporal Weapon Against Time
Posted - 2008.03.23 13:16:00 - [4]
 

Quote:
Let's put that to an example: Let's say Player XY flies through 0.0 and comes across a player that likes shiny explosions and has no brain to speak of.


You lost any form of credability right here.

Vek NaVek
Posted - 2008.03.23 13:23:00 - [5]
 

Eve also needs a pause button, if your in a fight and you need to really go, just hit pause, the fight will resume when you get back.


Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.23 15:13:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Katana Seiko
Let's say Player XY flies through 0.0 and comes across a player that likes shiny explosions and has no brain to speak of. The other player shoots Player XY and while his Pod breaks he realizes that he forgot to upgrade his clone.


At this point, Player XY realizes that he's the one with no brain to speak of. There is nothing "Broken" about the current game mechanics that needs "fixing".

Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2008.03.23 16:30:00 - [7]
 

Wow. Everytime I change skill I check my clone again. EVE is built upon the idea that there are serious consequences for mistakes. Like accidentally warping your new expensive ship into low-sec or no-sec and getting toasted. Or clicking OK to buy that unit of tritanium for 1,000,000,000 ISK.

Seth Ruin
Minmatar
Ominous Corp
Circle-Of-Two
Posted - 2008.03.23 18:24:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Norjia Blacksteel
EVE is built upon the idea that there are serious consequences for mistakes.


End of thread right there.

If you want a consequence-free game, play some other MMOG (Okay, okay... go back to WoW, as the cliché goes)

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.23 20:32:00 - [9]
 

The thing is that it adds nothing to the game. There are risks involved in combat and I dont mind losing my ships or my stuff or anything like that. It's just stupid that you get punished for forgetting something. It's not like people intentionally risk it and dont update their clone. If you want to keep losing sp, fine. Just add a checkbox for "automatically buy new clone when clone is destroyed". There, solved.

Tekashi Kovacs
Posted - 2008.03.23 21:11:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Juha85
The thing is that it adds nothing to the game. There are risks involved in combat and I dont mind losing my ships or my stuff or anything like that. It's just stupid that you get punished for forgetting something. It's not like people intentionally risk it and dont update their clone. If you want to keep losing sp, fine. Just add a checkbox for "automatically buy new clone when clone is destroyed". There, solved.


Why not just delete them? As you said, they give nothing. I agree and by saying that I mean *NOTHING*.
After being podded we would just respawn at nearest(?) station - why do we have to care about useless clones?

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.23 21:25:00 - [11]
 

There's still a point in having a clone and NOT respawning in the nearest station. The fact that you need to update your clone is a remnant from the past when we didnt have implants. Now it already hurts to lose your clone because you lose your implants. The only thing about upgrading your clone is that it costs you a bit of ISK. But there is no reason to go out in an outdated clone so they should just add something that lets you set it so that you automatically buy a new clone when u need it. Or atleast add a freaking warning for undocking in an outdated clone.

I have played for one and a half year, only once did I lose SP because of forgetting to update my clone. It still sucked.

Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.03.23 22:16:00 - [12]
 

And I've played for a year, only lost SP due to forgetting to an outdated clone once, and have always remembered to update it since.

Your claims that losing implants is penalty enough doesn't really factor into account people like myself who use implant free jump clones to PvP in so as not to lose expensive implants.

Personally I like the whole clone system, it ties in very well with the back story, and frankly rewards those who remember to update, and punishes those who don't. Otherwise you end up with PvP with no risk to the actual player, just their wallet. And I like PvP with an actual chance to hurt the player.

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.23 22:18:00 - [13]
 

Actually yes, lets just make it so that when you get killed you go back to 800k sp.

Jakus Cemendur
Caldari
Invicta.
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.03.23 22:21:00 - [14]
 

Way to read my post. Do I mention that anywhere? No, no I do not. I said:

Quote:
And I like PvP with an actual chance to hurt the player.


Now you could of course try and extrapolate that into what you said, but what you said is not what I said.

In simple terms, view the SP loss from getting podded with an un-updated clone as a lesson to always update it. The SP loss is arsh enough to make you remember to do that, but not too harsh in my opinion. What you are effectively asking for is reduced risk for PvP, and frankly given the current cost of ships in many areas being lower than their insurance cost, I think the amount of risks is about right.

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.23 22:33:00 - [15]
 

The problem is that losing the pod once doesnt mean that you will still allways remember to update it.

Christari Zuborov
Amarr
Ore Mongers
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.03.24 04:05:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Juha85
The problem is that losing the pod once doesnt mean that you will still allways remember to update it.


You'll remember if you lose a months training. That will be the last time you do it... Guaranteed.

Suck it up capsuleer.

BlackDeej
Aquila Astralis
Posted - 2008.03.24 08:37:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Juha85
The problem is that losing the pod once doesnt mean that you will still allways remember to update it.


True, but tbh if you value your time spent training so little that you constantly forget to update your clone (which is hardly difficult or time-consuming), then maybe you need a different game - one with Elves and Fairies perhaps ?

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.24 09:42:00 - [18]
 

Did you not read what I said? I said I have played for 1 and a half year and forgot once. However I dont want to forget again in another one and a half year.

Achuramale
Posted - 2008.03.24 10:47:00 - [19]
 

Unlike some claim having the chance of losing sp definitely adds something to EVE. It adds the chance to laugh at/with your corpmate who forgot to update his clone and is now cursing about it on vent, it adds the fear of losing your sp(one of the most addreline filled experiences I have had in EVE was moving through hostile filled 0.0 space without any clone to reach npc station to update my clone), it adds to frustration of having lost sp, it adds amusement of seeing someone like juha85 whine about losing sp on the forums, it adds the hope that the enemy you just podded hadn't updated his clone and maybe lost some important skill, etc. Plus it's extremely easy to keep your clone updated if you just pay attention.

Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2008.03.24 16:49:00 - [20]
 

I've had this reply window open for a long time now, and I just can't think of anything useful to say. ugh

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.24 17:22:00 - [21]
 

I'd agree it adds something to eve if it was even remotely related to skill or anything alike. But the problem is it isn't, its only related to remembering to do something. I agree it's easy to keep your clone updated but there is still a chance that you sometimes forget it. There are warning messages for more stupid things in EVE, like smartbombing in empire or shooting at someone in empire, or warping to a gate when you are aggressed. So why can't there be one for updating your clone?

If you want this "feature" to stay in game then just make it so that you lose SP everytime you die no matter if u had a clone or not. Now thats an adrenaline rush.

Maliber
TALON'S GRIP
Green Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.25 02:16:00 - [22]
 

It ads flavour to the game. It been in there since the start and makes getting podded more expencive for more experianced players. Its not a bug its a feature....

Norjia Blacksteel
Gallente
Blacksteel Mining and Manufacturing
Renaissance Federation
Posted - 2008.03.25 03:10:00 - [23]
 

Get over it. There are far more important things that need to be fixed. Like giving alliance members access to make copies of BPOs in a communal POS. We can get access to research ML and PL, but we can't make copies. That's truly horrible, as it affects many of us in AMC on a weekly basis, not just on the off chance we forget to update our clones.

xOm3gAx
Caldari
Stain of Mind
Posted - 2008.03.25 03:15:00 - [24]
 

if it aint broke dont fix it

Kujin
Mad Bombers
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2008.03.25 04:43:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Kujin on 25/03/2008 04:44:43
i have a lot of SP... i have been known to loose the occasional pod and a lot of SP. But I still think this is a crazy idea. Confused

If you remove things like this it takes away what makes EVE different. There is a risk to being careless.

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2008.03.25 09:01:00 - [26]
 

Then add a warning to it. There are warnings to alot of "useless" things in EVE. Why not this one?

Katana Seiko
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.25 14:06:00 - [27]
 

Edited by: Katana Seiko on 25/03/2008 14:26:51
Some people like the fact that it's easy to "hurt" the other players - okay... No problem with that...
The Problem I have with it is the fact that loosing 100$ is too easy... The system I offered means four more values - but no additional load. SP ammount, Skill name, Time started, Time finished.
And while the system up to now means "Oops, I just lost a hundred bucks!", the offered one means "Okay, I lost something but it's likely I get that back, I just can't die during the next week." and "Well, I lost a clone and there's no medical service in this station (in an outpost there's a good chance!). But I have a chance to reach one."

Sorry to the 0.0 inhabitants that feel affronted by the first post... There ARE some tactics going on - but there's still quite a lot of players that just roam around randomly attacking players. There's more of them in lowsec, but there are quite a number of them in 0.0...

Bronson Hughes
ADVANCED Combat and Engineering
Posted - 2008.03.25 14:45:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Bronson Hughes on 25/03/2008 14:46:36
Should you get reimbursed for skillpoints when you forget to start a new skill training after another one finishes? In effect, you lost training time, you lost money, you should be reimbursed right?

No.

If you don't take proper care in protecting your investment of time/money into EvE, be it by maintaining your contract clone, remembering to start new trains when others finish, or using good implants/learning skills to train faster, then you have nobody to blame but yourself. The current system is fine.

Make choices, live with the consequences. That's EvE.


 

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