open All Channels
seplocked Test Server Feedback
blankseplocked Shield Amplifiers
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2 3 4

Author Topic

CCP Nozh


C C P
Posted - 2008.03.19 17:38:00 - [1]
 

Quick update, I'm still taking a look at these stats. Unfortunately I won't have time to finish today. But, the current version, has the Estamel's version pushed up to -46 in line with the armor counterpart. Balance between the faction Shield Amplifiers will be more in-line with the Shield Boost Amplifiers / armor counterparts. Update after easter holidays or maybe during the weekend if I have time.

Ciao.



zacuis
Great Big Research
Posted - 2008.03.19 18:41:00 - [2]
 

ok.....

what exactly is the armour counterpart of the sheild boost amp ??

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:01:00 - [3]
 

good to know.... but by your balance dont forget that:

base armor resist is higher
armor tank is much more worth in pvp because let your mids free(so equal armor tank strenght is more lucrative)


So u should by balance make a bit shields more usable for the pvp part of eve too. that would help to amarr too, evn without to nerf other ships

Castelo Branco
Caldari
Forcas armadas
Moon Warriors
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:03:00 - [4]
 

Please, as I born caldari, only fly caldari ships, and Im very pround of it, I really ask you to do not nerf more stuff.. People spend lots and lots of isk in faction gears that are now nerfed to "ordinary" stuff. Preaty please, do not do this again..

Johnster
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:12:00 - [5]
 

Great to see this is being looked into again.

This is maybe not the place for this, but since your looking into module changes, would it be possible to look at fixing missiles so that they move faster (200% to 500% or so) for less time (equal to the speed increase), so that in PVP, we (a) actually hit something before the fleet blows it up Very Happy and (b) can at least hit nano ships (even though damage will still be extremely low when you do). This is a huge issue since the speed rigs were introduced. Note that this would also reduce lag in fleet battles as the missiles will not be active for as long.


Waxau
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:23:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: zacuis
ok.....

what exactly is the armour counterpart of the sheild boost amp ??


Shield Amplifiers and Shield Boost Amplifiers are different.

Vrenth
Gallente
The Program
Controlled Chaos
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:27:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: zacuis
ok.....

what exactly is the armour counterpart of the sheild boost amp ??


Shield Amplifiers and Shield Boost Amplifiers are different.


Yes, and shield resistance amplifiers are different from shield amplifiers, dev should have clerified Confused

Buyerr
Posted - 2008.03.19 19:55:00 - [8]
 

YOU ROCK!!! just for posting :D :D

nice to see that devs are alife on the forum ^^


and ty for the info :D

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.19 20:05:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Vrenth
Originally by: Waxau
Originally by: zacuis
ok.....

what exactly is the armour counterpart of the sheild boost amp ??


Shield Amplifiers and Shield Boost Amplifiers are different.


Yes, and shield resistance amplifiers are different from shield amplifiers, dev should have clerified Confused


This thread is a continuation of the following thread on General Discussion: Linkage

As such, what we are looking at is shield resistance amplifiers. It's pretty clear.

There is no "Shield Amplifiers" - there is "Shield Resistance Amplifiers" and "Shield Boost Amplifiers" - the particular "Shield Amplifiers" the CCP Nozh is refering to is the resistance amplifiers.

Nozh, I can't thank you enough for taking a second look at these. Take your time with it. :)

-Willow.

Kelby
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.19 20:18:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Quick update, I'm still taking a look at these stats. Unfortunately I won't have time to finish today. But, the current version, has the Estamel's version pushed up to -46 in line with the armor counterpart. Balance between the faction Shield Amplifiers will be more in-line with the Shield Boost Amplifiers / armor counterparts. Update after easter holidays or maybe during the weekend if I have time.

Ciao.





Outstanding, thanks for looking into this.

Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
Posted - 2008.03.19 21:30:00 - [11]
 

Very much agree, thanks for listening and taking a second look at this issue

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.19 21:57:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Pilk on 19/03/2008 22:56:57
Here's an appropriate equivalence table. I'll use simple, whole numbers for CPU usage; they reflect relative CPU usage and are certainly NOT suggestions for actual CPU usage!

Domination/RF (1 CPU) = T2 (3 CPU) = 37.5%
Gistum C-type (2 CPU) = Dread Guristas/CN (3 CPU) = 40%
Gistum C-Type = 2 CPU, 40%
Pithum C-Type (4 CPU) = Gistum B-type (3 CPU) = 41.5%
Pithum B-Type (5 CPU) = Gistum A-type (4 CPU) = 43%
Pithum A-Type (6 CPU) = Tobias (5 CPU) = 44.5%
Estamel's (7 CPU) = 46%

Gistum C-type = Mizuro
Gistum B-type = Hakim
Gistum A-type = Gotan

Pithum C-type = Kaikka
Pithum B-type = Thon
Pithum A-type = Vepas

This is consistent with the pirate races' individual characteristics and resolves all current and former issues I have and had with the passive shield amps.

Originally by: zacuis
ok.....

what exactly is the armour counterpart of the sheild boost amp ??

He's not talking about shield boost amps, he's talking about the shield resistance amplifiers. In this case, he's specifically referring to equivalencies between the damage-specific energized membranes (Energized Reactive, Energized Reflective, etc.) and the shield resistance amplifiers (Explosion Dampening Amplifier, Magnetic Scattering Amplifier, etc.).

--P

Dianeces
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:02:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Pilk
Nice troll attempt.

--P


I think my irony-meter just exploded.

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:16:00 - [14]
 

Thank you CCP Nozh.

Willow already clarified about what this topic is, I would like to add some more information:

Shield Resistance Amplifiers versus Energized Plating

Pottsey
Enheduanni Foundation
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:28:00 - [15]
 

Its great to see you taking another look and glad to hear about the Estamel change. I just hope you make it a little harder to fit as well as the resistance boost.

zacuis
Great Big Research
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:45:00 - [16]
 

i wasnt trolling. the post was a little unclear is all.

i`d never troll a dev well unless he was wrong lol

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:56:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: zacuis
i wasnt trolling. the post was a little unclear is all.

i`d never troll a dev well unless he was wrong lol

Oh, I understand what you were trying to say now! Sorry! I've updated my response to you, above.

--P

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.19 23:07:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Johnster
Great to see this is being looked into again.

This is maybe not the place for this, but since your looking into module changes, would it be possible to look at fixing missiles so that they move faster (200% to 500% or so) for less time (equal to the speed increase), so that in PVP, we (a) actually hit something before the fleet blows it up Very Happy and (b) can at least hit nano ships (even though damage will still be extremely low when you do). This is a huge issue since the speed rigs were introduced. Note that this would also reduce lag in fleet battles as the missiles will not be active for as long.




Then Drones will get x5 speed to keep up with missile speed?

Johnster
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2008.03.20 04:02:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Johnster on 20/03/2008 04:03:34
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Then Drones will get x5 speed to keep up with missile speed?


I would not be against a drone speed upgrade so that the light drones can catch nano ships with good skills. As long as the tracking at that speed has an effect equal to other turrets/missiles. Nano ships should not be an iwin button.

Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
Posted - 2008.03.20 06:28:00 - [20]
 

Thank you for taking another look at this. I look forward to seeing the revised numbers, and hope they fit better with the patterns I'm used to seeing in other faction gear.

Dr Aryandi
Posted - 2008.03.20 08:41:00 - [21]
 

Thanks for looking again. This change doesn't effect me directly but it's nice to see a good response to player feedback :)

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.20 15:19:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Durzel on 20/03/2008 15:20:21
Just FYI Nozh, while you're on the prowl for meta-level irregularities...

Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier is meta level 14 and has the same boost percentage, CPU and everything else as Vepas' Modified Shield Boost Amplifier - which is listed as meta level 13.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=726045

Presumably the Gist X needs to be more like 43.5% or thereabouts?

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.20 16:52:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Willow Whisp on 20/03/2008 17:08:00
Originally by: Durzel

Just FYI Nozh, while you're on the prowl for meta-level irregularities...

Gist X-Type Shield Boost Amplifier is meta level 14 and has the same boost percentage, CPU and everything else as Vepas' Modified Shield Boost Amplifier - which is listed as meta level 13.


It's not an irregularity. Gist X is the highest meta level of the Gist complex variants, while Vepa's items are one level lower in the officer food chain, and therefore meta 13. Also, this thread is not about shield boost amplifiers, it's about shield resistance amplifiers.

Furthermore, Gist X will never be as high % as Pith X modules, because it's not a characteristic of Gist to be higher boost percentage. That falls into the Pith domain. What you get with Gist X is lower fitting requirements.

Therefore the Meta 14 Gist X and Meta 14 Pith X modules will be different, much like they are now (and rightfully so), while the officer line of modules run on a different meta level progression, because of the introduction of the top named officers like Tobias and Estamel.

Originally by: Durzel
Presumably the Gist X needs to be more like 43.5% or thereabouts?


That would make Gist X modules incredibly overpowered. High boost, resistance and boost % are not the domain of the Gist line. They are 2nd class when it comes to that, compared to Pith. The domain of the Gist line is MWD's and Propulsion mods, where they reign supreme over the Core line.

You are having the same problem that CCP Nozh had when he first changed the shield resistance amplifier line. That is, you are looking at the Shield Boost Amplifier line out of context of the rest of the faction picture, and taking into account Meta Level as a comparison be-all, end-all, where it is not.

In this case, the highest Meta Level (14) is reserved to the highest module of each line, not of the game.

Therefore, the Highest Meta Level of the Gist line, may end up being inferior to the Higest Meta Level Item of the Officer Line, and equal to a Lower Meta tier of said line (In this case, Gist X and Vepa), and Certainly, of the Pith Line, when it comes to shield mods.

Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
Posted - 2008.03.20 17:08:00 - [24]
 

Thanks for the clarification - useful info!

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.03.20 19:13:00 - [25]
 

Quote:
Quick update, I'm still taking a look at these stats. Unfortunately I won't have time to finish today. But, the current version, has the Estamel's version pushed up to -46 in line with the armor counterpart. Balance between the faction Shield Amplifiers will be more in-line with the Shield Boost Amplifiers / armor counterparts. Update after easter holidays or maybe during the weekend if I have time.

Ciao.


Thanks for looking into this for us. I must say, I thought the values pre patch were more or less ok and didn't understand the rebalancing of just the shield resistance amplifiers in a vacuum, when no other faction stuff got changed.

I hope after your second round of changes faction resist amplifiers will be back to being good alternatives to armor tanking, and will more or less be back, on average, to their previous power instead of being made weaker overall.

Cordus
Posted - 2008.03.21 04:35:00 - [26]
 

It's tough to own up to mistakes sometimes, so we all appreciate someone taking another shot at this.

Many good points were raised in the earlier thread, though some of those posts were unkind and hysterical (not in the funny way). Some of the best things repeated here most concern the "flavor" of each faction's gear, which I think is a good point. However, the thing which concerns me most is that the effort required to attain faction gear may no longer be worth it.

Some modules, like faction shield hardeners, were never worthwhile to acquire. Therefore those modules have always been useless wastes of space within the loyalty point shops. In fact there are many such useless faction modules in Eve. Unless their primary benefit exceeds that of their tech two counterpart, they're going to be ignored in favor of the far cheaper and more easily accessible tech two option. (The -primary- benefit is what needs to be superior. Easier fitting is not a worthwhile benefit for the kinds of inconvenience that we endure to score a faction module.)

I think it makes far better sense to have faction loot that is desirable and superior. If anything is going to be completely redone with faction loot, then I would suggest redoing all of the faction loot items to give them a bonus which makes them worth having. Find the faction armor and shield hardeners and other such useless things and give them a modest, superior bonus so that they can become a part of the game instead of sitting on the sideline.

There are some good players in this forum, and they would be willing to assist you in identifying them.

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.03.21 17:32:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Cordus
There are some good players in this forum, and they would be willing to assist you in identifying them.


Willow Whisp for Technical Council (CSM)! Serious, we need someone that know the game mechanics out there, and someone that have and know how to use based arguments.

namelessclone01
Caldari
blackbox ops
Posted - 2008.03.22 15:41:00 - [28]
 

i wasn't particularly kind to CCP Nozh in that General Discussion thread, and i'd like to apologize for maybe some sharp words..

thanks for communicating with the players and for looking into the problem.

hopefully it will all end well and resist amps will be fixed the right way.

and then there is also hope that CN co-processors will be un-nerfed back to their previous bonus.. (or am i asking too much now?)

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.23 15:15:00 - [29]
 

Originally by: Back Again

Willow Whisp for Technical Council (CSM)! Serious, we need someone that know the game mechanics out there, and someone that have and know how to use based arguments.



Off topic, but after seeing some of the current candidates, I may end up deciding to apply for the position. Still have to decide if it's really worthwhile doing though...

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.24 03:45:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Johnster
Great to see this is being looked into again.

This is maybe not the place for this, but since your looking into module changes, would it be possible to look at fixing missiles so that they move faster (200% to 500% or so) for less time (equal to the speed increase), so that in PVP, we (a) actually hit something before the fleet blows it up Very Happy and (b) can at least hit nano ships (even though damage will still be extremely low when you do). This is a huge issue since the speed rigs were introduced. Note that this would also reduce lag in fleet battles as the missiles will not be active for as long.




Go for secondary targets. Very Happy


Pages: [1] 2 3 4

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only