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blankseplocked Intellectual Property theft by CCP ?
 
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Sandor Krejaa
Posted - 2008.03.18 00:41:00 - [31]
 

Ya know, I was thinking along the lines of the OP,. I used to play a board game called "Star Fleet Battles", it is a tabletop game based off the Star Fleet technical manual published back in the 1970s and it is pretty much what EvE is..a very detailed specship combat game where you can also run campaigns and modify ships, and it as a power allocation mechanism as well for verious ship systems.

What made me think of it was the Gallente love of drones, then I thought..hmmm the Kzinti of SFB fame are a 'drone' based race then I started looking a bit closer and found damn near all the mechanisms of SFB implemted in EvE.

hell SFB was the FIRST space-combat tabletop game and it has a very well developed EW/ECCM rule set, capital ships, fighters, freighters, tugs, starbases, stations, minefields, tenders...the list goes on.

I look at Eve and say the designers had to have been aware of Star Fleet Battles..EvE practically is Star Fleet Battles just with different labeling. How can you design a game like this and NOT be aware of SFB?

Besides if you dont know already, Eve is based in concept at least on the old Braben game "Elite, and Elite II: Frontier". IF you ever played those, you have played EvE and vice versa :-) Personally I say EvE is the world of Elite married to the mechanisms of Star Fleet Battles.

Now if they can add the RPG mechanisms of the old FASA Star Trek PnP RPG, ambulation will be a smash hit.


If you are a fan of Asimov, and Foundation, you also know one of the key failures of the Empire...that was failure to innovate and find new ways to combine old things to make new things.

In the case of CCP, they took Braben's Elite universe, and Stephen Cole's SFB mechanisms and created a new thing called EvE. I think CCP did a good job in that regard. Hopefully they do give credit where credit is due though.









Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
Posted - 2008.03.18 00:44:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Well I suppose that depends.

How far can you stretch the concept of "intellectual property" that much in Icelandic courts?


Yup. AFAIK Iceland is one of the world leaders for hosting paper corporations because of the way they do thier corporate laws. ugh

Seeblu
Posted - 2008.03.18 00:51:00 - [33]
 

need for speed

Asuka Smith
Gallente
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Posted - 2008.03.18 00:52:00 - [34]
 

I am sure the developers of EVE would give credit if they were able to without opening themselves up to so many lawsuits from greedy estate holders. They are forced to take sole credit because otherwise they could not afford the legal fees.

Quincunx
Minmatar
Subspace Anomaly
Posted - 2008.03.18 01:40:00 - [35]
 

There just are large companies, that think they need to own everything.
Like T-Mobile, that wanted to claim the color magenta. O_o

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.03.18 01:42:00 - [36]
 

Lawyers need to get shot more often.

Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Posted - 2008.03.18 03:33:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Lawyers need to get shot more often.


This...

Vymorna Grom
Caldari
Posted - 2008.03.18 03:39:00 - [38]
 

To the OP:

So what are you planning to do about it?

Skelator
Stronghold corp
CORPVS DELICTI
Posted - 2008.03.18 03:59:00 - [39]
 


Quote:


Troll?
Goon Alt?
All of the Above?

You decide....
Rolling Eyes



Nope
Didn't you know its **** Cheney! Wink

Yo ****, US Law doesn't apply in Iceland.
Iceland goes out of their way to protect Companies based in Iceland no matter what law was brokenExclamation


Sylthi
Minmatar
Coreward Pan-Galactic
Holy Empire of The Unshaven
Posted - 2008.03.18 04:42:00 - [40]
 

To the op: I guess my main point about this would be: your argument likely holds little water. After all, CCP has been out for almost 5 years now. All of that time they have been VERY much in the public eye; even scrambling at times for media attention. They have been to DOZENS of game and sci-fi conventions. If there WAS any legal argument to be made, it would have been (or has already been) made a LOOOOOONG time ago by people a lot smarter, and much more well informed about the law, than anyone in this thread.

My 2 isk.

Fly safe and Free All!

P.S. But, yeah, there could never be enough bullets created to shoot all the lawyers that NEED to be shot.


Annaphera
Minmatar
United Freemerchants Society
Posted - 2008.03.18 05:05:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Frug
Edited by: Frug on 17/03/2008 23:11:32
OP has an interesting point.

And I think if the eve universe did away with some of the cliche terminology that has been borrowed from common science fiction, that the world would be more interesting.
Just a quibble...if they did away with ALL of the 'cliche' terminology, no one would know what the heck they were talking about! It helps immersion to use familiar terms. As any good science fiction writer will tell you (and one is - though the "good" part is open to opinion Very Happy), to do away with all of the common terms and concepts accepted by the science fiction community, you have to get them to accept all your new terms, and the new concepts. Most people don't want to slog through all of that, and will choose not to. Some new things are great - but using some of the already accepted conventions gives the reader (or player, in this case) a sense of familiarity, so they won't get too lost when you hop head-first into the original stuff.

Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.18 05:45:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Tarminic
You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts.

You can't copyright names... It's called trademarking, and is completely different.

Darwin Duck
Evil Monkey Asylum
Wile E Coyote's
Posted - 2008.03.18 06:13:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Few years ago i was playing a german browser-game, called Droidwars. One day they got a call from a lawyer from Lucas Arts, who was demanding to change the name, as the name and concept of "droids" was intellectual property owned by Lucas Arts. After consulting a lawyer, the company running the browser-game changed the name (to d-wars).

When we look at EvE, most of the names and ideas are either unique/invented by CCP (races, ship-designs) or common scifi-names (spaceships, lasers etc.).

Others are not.

For example Stargates: "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" (Stargates from Stargate Series) might be intellectual property of MGM ?

Or things like the "Warp Drives", which is a term/idea originating from the fictional universe of Star Treck.

I'm not a lawyer, don't know if those things are seen as registered design or are issues of copyrights, but i don't think CCP can just use those names and ideas without permission, maybe one day they might get a call from a lawyer of the companies that own this intellectual property, who is then not only asking to change the names but for paying a profit-sharing bonus because of using another companys intellectual property for CCP's product.



Sounds very wierd, did they charge anything for for the browser game? if they did not they could pretty much have called the game Star wars without LA bothering trying. Like SWGEmu that can do their thing as long as they don't charge anything, LA lawyers and SOE contacted them and the emu team pretty much said "screw you we ain't charging anything". And there are even a few free star wars movies made by fans.

http://www.swgemu.com
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_Revelations


And like others said, "droid" isn't even something they can copyright.

Cipher7
Posted - 2008.03.18 07:32:00 - [44]
 


I seriously doubt "droid" belongs to anybody since this is short for "android"

Anybody can try to claim anything, doesnt mean it'll stick.

Paris Hilton tried to copyright the term "That's hot"

Media companies go too far with this crap, thats why so many people think it's okay to rip them off, nobody respects intellectual property anymore because these giant companies bully everybody around, and try to insinuate that they created terms that were always in our fictional unconscious.

And by the way Marvel comics sucks, boycott them, they tried to sue City of Heroes because apparently Marvel thinks it owns the copyright on men in blue tights.

Dont buy anything from these people, don't give them money, they are parasites.

Plutonian
Gallente
Intransigent
Posted - 2008.03.18 07:39:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Frug
And I think if the eve universe did away with some of the cliche terminology that has been borrowed from common science fiction, that the world would be more interesting.
Just a quibble...if they did away with ALL of the 'cliche' terminology, no one would know what the heck they were talking about! It helps immersion to use familiar terms.


^^ This.

Was a (non-paid ugh) member of a start-up game company where the project lead had the idea to "make everything different, with unique names." Rolling Eyes

Until I pointed out that calling a 'warp drive' a 'Gobbledegark Inverso' just irritates the player, who has to mentally translate the term into its familiar counterpart every time he sees it. Wasted effort... build off what is generally accepted; don't just translate into a new geek-language.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.03.18 07:57:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Yakia TovilToba
Few years ago i was playing a german browser-game, called Droidwars. One day they got a call from a lawyer from Lucas Arts, who was demanding to change the name, as the name and concept of "droids" was intellectual property owned by Lucas Arts. After consulting a lawyer, the company running the browser-game changed the name (to d-wars).

When we look at EvE, most of the names and ideas are either unique/invented by CCP (races, ship-designs) or common scifi-names (spaceships, lasers etc.).

Others are not.

For example Stargates: "Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" (Stargates from Stargate Series) might be intellectual property of MGM ?

Or things like the "Warp Drives", which is a term/idea originating from the fictional universe of Star Treck.

I'm not a lawyer, don't know if those things are seen as registered design or are issues of copyrights, but i don't think CCP can just use those names and ideas without permission, maybe one day they might get a call from a lawyer of the companies that own this intellectual property, who is then not only asking to change the names but for paying a profit-sharing bonus because of using another companys intellectual property for CCP's product.



Stargates are not owned IP, they exist in a plethora of science fiction. They basically work on some of the more esoteric calculations of Einstein, and others who built upon his work.

Warp Drive while it originated with Star Trek has since leaked out into normal usage. If at some point scientist invent such engines they'll be called warp drives. Its usuage is not a violation of the copyright because though it mechanically functions similarly in EVE we do not use Star Trek terminolgy such as warp factor etc.

It is very common to use terms and conditions from previous science fiction works.

Haks'he Lirky
Durgarnir
Posted - 2008.03.18 08:00:00 - [47]
 

stargate and warp drives have been in use for so long in science fiction that if the creators of Star Trek (notice the absence of a "C") or Stargate would complain then they would most likely get counter sued.

Lucas the git has however made an empire out of tertiary merchandise and because of that his legal department is making sure that they will continue to do so by protecting those brand names.

Intellectual Property is one thing, an actual trade mark or a product name is another.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.18 08:40:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/03/2008 11:47:27
Originally by: Pohbis
By your logic, Tolkien could sue every high-fantasy game/novel/whatever for infringement.



Tolkien estates menaced exactly that to TSR for the name of a dwarf in one old module.

It is a bit ridicule as the names Tolkien used are the names from the north European folklore, dating back (as written records) at least from 1600 and used in oral tales at least from 900 dc.

Only USA law will accept to copyright something that was in use for hundred or thousand of years before (or to be more exact, only USA lawyers will try to impose a similar copyright).


Multras
D00M.
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.03.18 09:20:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Dramund
It is a FARGATE! Do you need us to give it a mohawk and a wheelchair?


Close far, get it!?

couger malthas
Amarr
Violent Purge PLC
Posted - 2008.03.18 09:45:00 - [50]
 

Spin up the FTL drives™ Rolling Eyes

Keorythe
Caldari
Terra Rosa Militia
Posted - 2008.03.18 11:22:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Quelque Chose
Another thing to remember is that Lucas' eagerness for litigation is rivaled only by the RIAA and maybe the Church of Scientology.


Lucas knows that a real life lawsuit will scare the crap out of anyone who gets a real life notice. This doesn't mean that they have much to stand on in any court of law. There have been several famous cases where Lucas and LucasArts have lost bigtime. This isn't the first time that Lucas has tried to use lawsuit muscle to scare someone into compliance and plenty of companies would rather not dish out alot of cash for court expenses.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.03.18 11:25:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: William Darkk
Originally by: Jacob Mei
The warp drive of Star Trek is a faster then light propulsion system where as (I believe) the warp drive of EvE is not.


It is. 3 au/second is 1440x speed of light.


No, he is right, ships in warp in Eve do not go faster than light, they just go faster than light in a standard vacuum.
They reduce the energy level of the vacuum around the ship so that the speed of light is faster than C.

Cypher V
Minmatar
Critical Mass Technologies
Posted - 2008.03.18 12:18:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Well I suppose that depends.

How far can you stretch the concept of "intellectual property" that much in Icelandic courts?


lol...They've got it bad enough with the weather man, no need for slander XD

Dramund
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.03.18 12:45:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Venkul Mul
Edited by: Venkul Mul on 18/03/2008 11:47:27
Originally by: Pohbis
By your logic, Tolkien could sue every high-fantasy game/novel/whatever for infringement.



Tolkien estates menaced exactly that to TSR for the name of a dwarf in one old module.

It is a bit ridicule as the names Tolkien used are the names from the north European folklore, dating back (as written records) at least from 1600 and used in oral tales at least from 900 dc.

Only USA law will accept to copyright something that was in use for hundred or thousand of years before (or to be more exact, only USA lawyers will try to impose a similar copyright).




All but a few and those names stuck in the lawsuit, demonstrating only Tolkein-coined terms were considered his:

Hobbit -> Halfling
Ent -> Treant

Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.18 22:50:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Vymorna Grom
To the OP:

So what are you planning to do about it?


My plan is to contact the companies in question, ask them if that things are registered trademarks, and if yes to buy their legal rights against CCP and then hold it to ransom a free raven state issue from CCP Laughing

Voluptificus
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.03.18 23:10:00 - [56]
 

Do you remember Frontier Elite (I and II) ?

Hopefully concepts cannot be copyrighted.

LaughingYARRRR!!Laughing

Kyanzes
Amarr
Muppet Ninja's
Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
Posted - 2008.03.18 23:17:00 - [57]
 

Edited by: Kyanzes on 18/03/2008 23:17:36

Also, when a word or combination of words have already been trademarked, you can always come up with something that sounds similar. e.g.: light saber >>> site labour

ugh

Slade Trillgon
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.18 23:22:00 - [58]
 

Edited by: Slade Trillgon on 18/03/2008 23:27:41

Originally by: reched
to the OP: stargates aren't REAL!

therefore they cannot be copyrighted.

some people need to get outside a bit more...


Tell that to TSR or whoever the heck owns Dungeons and Dragons nowadays; EDIT:Wizards of the Coast/HASBRO. They have intellectual rights over at least a few names of fictitional creatures that were created under their liscense, ie. beholder, displacer beast, and carion crawler. Therefore things do not need to be real to copyright or EDIT: trademark in this case.

Slade

banannagirl
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.03.19 00:25:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: banannagirl on 19/03/2008 00:26:14
Originally by: Tarminic
You can copyright names, but you can't copyright concepts.

"Ring-shaped devices that create a wormhole enabling teleportation to complementary devices located cosmic distances away" is a concept.


Actually your wrong .. the 'wormhole' IS intellectual property as it goes.. the only part of any fictional text that you can repeat or use devoid of copyright law is the title .. everything else is baasically covered if they wanted to get nasty ..!

becaause it doesnt actually exist other than in IMAGINATION it is under the creative regulations. intellectual property ...!

Just like people cant actually discuss matter ANY matter travelling beyond the speed of light in the unniverse without referencing my name basically .. as the only way it can be accelerated is via inert cavity structure dynammic (in the natural world which includes the unniverse).

But some of of you are always aware so very regularly do the majority (brown eyed people) mention the minority (freckled blue eyed people) IN ANYTHING at all not even in terms of global minority or single specie or whatever.

Strange world WE live in isnt it ...!

regards
BG



True ^


Quelque Chose
New Eden Roller Disco Supply
Posted - 2008.03.19 00:29:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Quelque Chose on 19/03/2008 00:29:25
Originally by: banannagirl
Actually your wrong .. the 'wormhole' IS intellectual property as it goes.. the only part of any fictional text that you can repeat or use devoid of copyright law is the title .. everything else is baasically covered if they wanted to get nasty ..!




Intellectual PROPERTY of WHOM? Albert EINSTEIN and NATHAN Rosen? 'Cause those are THE guys that CAME UP with the IDEA.

EINSTEIN is also DEAD.. !


^
true


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