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Orion Supernova
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:16:00 - [1]
 

I went on a roam yesterday and discovered a problem that have been highlighted here before, of the 65 ships i came cross in systems over two regions, 41 were cloakers, that is one minute they were on scan, then nothing, still in system, just not on scan.

I'd like to suggest something as a fix, instead of giving cloaks a specific cpu and pg usage, give them a % usage, like 5% or something.

Lets look at this logically, from visual observations the cloaking device seems to create a cloaking over the ship that bends light around it, therefor, the bigger the ship the bigger the coating need to be, and the more pg and cpu it will draw and use.

so on a stealthbomber, a pilot with reasonable skills will get around 60 cpu used, but on something as big as a raven the cpu will be closer to 200.

This would dissuade people from flitting cloaks to ships, but still allow them to do so if they feel it nescesary.

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:18:00 - [2]
 

They could have been in warp?

Orin Valari
Caldari
The Sycorax Syndicate
The Cooperative
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:21:00 - [3]
 

cloaks already have plenty of drawbacks. Of those 41 ships you claim are cloakers I bet 2 or 3 really were.

Orion Supernova
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:26:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
They could have been in warp?


even if they are in warp, they will still show up on the on board scanner.

Brun Thorvald
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:29:00 - [5]
 

You may have noticed how easy ganking is in this game.

Ganking a cloaked ship is far more difficult.

The trend to cloaks is evolution in action.

Bohoba
Caldari
Burning Technologies
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:29:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Orin Valari
cloaks already have plenty of drawbacks. Of those 41 ships you claim are cloakers I bet 2 or 3 really were.


nope it is really that bad

I say covert ops and recons should be the only ships that can cloak and not be able to be scaned out
any other ship that uses a cloak should be scanable

Kahega Amielden
Minmatar Ship Construction Services
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:31:00 - [7]
 

I thought in the live dev blog, they said that non-covops cloaks would be vulnerable to some type of probing.

Ikasu
Gallente
Scrutari
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:35:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Brun Thorvald
You may have noticed how easy ganking is in this game.

Ganking a cloaked ship is far more difficult.

The trend to cloaks is evolution in action.


This. I believe they had similar problems in an episode of Star Trek.

Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:43:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Khanid Kutie on 15/03/2008 06:42:58
Originally by: Orion Supernova
(Insert inane cloaking whine here)


you rly dont know how bad cloaks are for ur ship, eh?

Orion Supernova
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:44:00 - [10]
 

cloaks are overpowered, because any ship can fit them and be able to hide forever if needed.

A cap usage is not the answer, that would make cloaks useless.

there needs to be a trade off, either fit a cloak and be safer, but loose some ability while the cloak is fitted, or dont fit a cloak, keep that ability and not be as safe.

MWDs are a great example, fit an mwd, gain a massive speed boost, but loose 25% of your cap while it is online.

Jakata Boomba
Imperial Shipment
Posted - 2008.03.15 06:49:00 - [11]
 

NPC rats should give 2 min logoff aggro instead of none. That's enough to protect the average player.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.15 07:01:00 - [12]
 

As usual this thread will polarize in 2 camps:

First camp: I should and pretend to be able to gank anything I know that exist in system, from the cloaked ship to the docked ship;

Second camp: I should and pretend to be able to avoid to be ganked if I don't want to fight.

While none of the camps is perfectly right, killing a ship without a cloak is pretty easy for a gang so some system to try to avoid a 5 or more to 1 battle should exist, cloak are the best, you can hardly be surprised that they are used.


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.15 07:04:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Jakata Boomba
NPC rats should give 2 min logoff aggro instead of none. That's enough to protect the average player.



Typical example: pew pew is the only thing. Cloak are used to move transport and other ships trough gatecamps but this guy isn't even considering a use different than in pew pew.

Khanid Kutie
I R Teh Poasting Alt Corp
Posted - 2008.03.15 08:01:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Orion Supernova
cloaks are overpowered, because any ship can fit them and be able to hide forever if needed.

A cap usage is not the answer, that would make cloaks useless.

there needs to be a trade off, either fit a cloak and be safer, but loose some ability while the cloak is fitted, or dont fit a cloak, keep that ability and not be as safe.

MWDs are a great example, fit an mwd, gain a massive speed boost, but loose 25% of your cap while it is online.


locking time penalty, ability to lock after uncloaking. Cloaks arent the ALL powerful tool thaat you think they are.

Orion Supernova
Posted - 2008.03.15 08:44:00 - [15]
 

so your saying when fitting up a ratting ship to use in 0.0, you're put off fitting a cloak sometimes because you take longer to lock things normally, and would have to wait 14 seconds after decloaking to lock a rat again? Some how that doesn't really seem to be such a big negative to compensate for being able to hide without fear of being discovered ever.

Soljisk
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Posted - 2008.03.15 08:52:00 - [16]
 

Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.

Orion Supernova
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:03:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


ok, we'll come to your home systems in cloaked ships, sit at safe spots until some-one comes out to rat and then pop them, then go back to our safe spots and recloak. Then we'll see how you like cloaking ships.

Alex Raptos
Caldari
Phoenix Rising.
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:11:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Orion Supernova
Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


ok, we'll come to your home systems in cloaked ships, sit at safe spots until some-one comes out to rat and then pop them, then go back to our safe spots and recloak. Then we'll see how you like cloaking ships.


You really don't want to go to all that hassle for frigates...

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:11:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 15/03/2008 09:13:45
Originally by: Orion Supernova
Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


ok, we'll come to your home systems in cloaked ships, sit at safe spots until some-one comes out to rat and then pop them, then go back to our safe spots and recloak. Then we'll see how you like cloaking ships.


But naturally, as you already pointed out, the drawback don't count if you do that, right? Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Orion Supernova
so your saying when fitting up a ratting ship to use in 0.0, you're put off fitting a cloak sometimes because you take longer to lock things normally, and would have to wait 14 seconds after decloaking to lock a rat again? Some how that doesn't really seem to be such a big negative to compensate for being able to hide without fear of being discovered ever.


Or maybe they count, but you want to be able to gank anything you see on local without even having to work?

You haven't jet given a reason beside "I want to gank anything".

gazthenailer
Mortis Angelus
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:20:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: gazthenailer on 15/03/2008 09:21:22
Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


Well the cloaks was not intended to be use on isk farmers or when npcing. If you know how to npc in 0,0 you should not need any f*cking cloak.

Iam npcing in a CNR without cloak and i never have been jump on.

The cloak was intended for cov ops/reacon and stealth bombers for the gerilla warfare they are so good for. Other ships should not be able to use cloak.

ps!

How ****ing stupid is it to be in a reacon cloak all day waiting for hauler kills in the system??

/G

Rob Buie
Little Garden
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:20:00 - [21]
 

The hypothetical system camper who cloaks and just waits all day for players to come in and decide to still rat/mine when they see a non-blue in local isnt a reality. This gets boring very fast and so far in wars it doesnt serve much purpose. Alliances own so much territory between so few people that its preposterous to actually camp every single system they own in this fashion.

The reality is those who like to camp systems in this fashion dont do it sitting in one spot. They roam around usually running two accounts and they hope to catch a guy off guard. The fact that they move around leaves them vulnerable at gate jumps, and you can always use a baiting tactic to catch 'em as well.

Marcus TheMartin
Gallente
Tuxedo.
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:24:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: gazthenailer
Edited by: gazthenailer on 15/03/2008 09:21:22
Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


Well the cloaks was not intended to be use on isk farmers or when npcing. If you know how to npc in 0,0 you should not need any f*cking cloak.

Iam npcing in a CNR without cloak and i never have been jump on.

The cloak was intended for cov ops/reacon and stealth bombers for the gerilla warfare they are so good for. Other ships should not be able to use cloak.

ps!

How ****ing stupid is it to be in a reacon cloak all day waiting for hauler kills in the system??

/G


Awox and Meanstreak have found a good use for cloaks on pvp ships

Orb Lati
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.03.15 09:52:00 - [23]
 

Why do you not just wait until CCP bring out the cloak scanning probes.

Joshua Humphreys
Minmatar
Xavier Institute for Higher Learning
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:11:00 - [24]
 

Why bother with a cloak? A smart mission runner in low-sec will have a few safe spots beyond scanner range of all celestial objects. It's possible set up a similar network of safe spots in some systems without running missions, but it does require work.

Taius Pax
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:12:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Orion Supernova
Originally by: Soljisk
Basically you people just want to and feel the right you can gank anything you want. If a system is implemented where cloakers can be found they will just hop from safe to safe and cloak til you get bored or they will warp to safe cloak and log off. Either way your not going to get your easy cheap kill that you so desire.


ok, we'll come to your home systems in cloaked ships, sit at safe spots until some-one comes out to rat and then pop them, then go back to our safe spots and recloak. Then we'll see how you like cloaking ships.


And people wonder why 0.0 is avoided...

SwitchBl4d3
Heretic Army
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:12:00 - [26]
 

remove local, or make it optional like consul chat....

as soon as anyone enters local in 0.0 multiple log offs , it sucks

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:13:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Kahega Amielden
I thought in the live dev blog, they said that non-covops cloaks would be vulnerable to some type of probing.


They threw that out the window - in one of the interviews with the devs on eve tv for the alliance tourney (so within the last couple of weeks) they said they're looking at making it so you can't AFK cloak (what that means is anyone's guess - something to make sure you're at the PC - something to click on or do or something) but normal cloaking will still be left as it is.

Ralagina
Caldari
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:14:00 - [28]
 

Edited by: Ralara on 15/03/2008 11:19:16
Originally by: Orion Supernova
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
They could have been in warp?


even if they are in warp, they will still show up on the on board scanner.


The scanner only has a range of about 14 AU... if they warped away they would leave the scanner, surely?

If the system was smaller than that then... that is a lot of cloakers - perhaps it was a black ops team? 40 odd cloakers is a LOT. But if they're isk farmers, surely blockade the system :D

Large bubbles up, trap 40-50 of them in one go lol

Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
Posted - 2008.03.15 11:52:00 - [29]
 

You get to probe out cloakers, the day they nerf local.

Fair trade?

Sicariidae
Caldari
Prophets Of a Damned Universe
Finis Terrae
Posted - 2008.03.15 12:26:00 - [30]
 

Sounds like it's more "YOUR" problem and not a problem with eve itself. Why not just have CCP line up the ships for your in a nice row, no guns, no cloaks, oh and they're not allowed to move either. Happy now?


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