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Calexis Atredies
Quantum Industries
Prime Orbital Systems
Posted - 2008.03.18 21:30:00 - [181]
 

If they want to meta level mods do it to everything, all mods not just to these otherwise the justifaction singles out passive tankers. The recent patch was also a nerf to tanking in general (all armour and shield tanks, if you are going to nerf tanking please nerf gangking, speed tanking and e-war to keep everything balanced. Stop focussing on single groups when making adjustments!!

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.03.18 22:55:00 - [182]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
Basically high-meta shield amplifiers got rebalanced based on meta level and normal shield hardeners trends.



Gistum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Hakim's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Vepa's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 13Question
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 26 tf Question
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

As you can see, the meta level was not the base for the modules changes in the example above, don't you agree?

Originally by: CCP Nozh
First thing people frown upon when taking a look at the new shield amplifiers is the caldari navy, dread guristas changes. However if you take a look at normal shield hardeners and their Faction counterparts they follow the exact same trend. Same resistance but lower CPU.



So, we can expect that the armor membranes will change too, based on armor hardeners and their Fanction counterparts in some incoming patch to keep them in line with shield tanking, as happened with ship shield explosive resistances because the necessary balance with ship armor EM resistances?

Thanks in advance for your time in answering these questions.

DogSlime
Caldari
Wilde Cards
Posted - 2008.03.19 00:02:00 - [183]
 

Originally by: Casino Alkasar
Why did they promote it "NO NERFS..HONESTLY"
in the first place?

Even if you agree with the changes, they made stuff
worse..thats in most comon knowledge a NERF.

They outright fooled their playerbaseConfused



No, they foolded no-one. They outright LIED, but no-one was fooled. Once people took issue with their lies, they came out with some mealy-mouthed crap about "one man's nerf is another man's boost", and basically tried to say that nerf=boost.

So, they lied (like they think their paying userbase are idiots).

Then they used garbage logic (like they think their paying userbase are idiots).

and their paying userbase (including me) continue to pay... like idiots Razz

No respect for CCP whatsoever, but I remain a paying customer in the hope that eventually things will work out.

Johnster
Caldari
Resurrection
Gentlemen's Club
Posted - 2008.03.19 04:14:00 - [184]
 

I just want my skillpoints moved from caldari to minmitar. Thats obviously what CCP fly.

CCP, over the last year you have killed caldari in every single way. It is obvious you hate caldari, so why not simply delete them and give us out skillpoint back. Why all the bullsh*t?


Daan Sai
Polytrope
Posted - 2008.03.19 06:58:00 - [185]
 

Edited by: Daan Sai on 19/03/2008 07:26:11
Edited by: Daan Sai on 19/03/2008 07:03:35
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Basically high-meta shield amplifiers got rebalanced based on meta level and normal shield hardeners trends.



When did metal levels above 5 ever have a direct correlation with item properties? I thought meta level was a much later add on. Meta levels of 6+ are arbitrary as the items are semi unique, not a systematic sequence of technology.

If you are going to use meta level as a measure or ranking of all items (not just T1 variations), why not re-order the metal levels and leave the items properties alone?


Basically, apart from some invention stuff for meta-level below 5, meta level does nothing in game, so why change any properties based on such an arbitrary ordering? As the meta level is semi arbitrary anyway, it isn't a surprise that a metal level listing of properties is not a monotonic progression. The smart thing would be to figure out why, not just enforce a late assigned meta level ordering.


Also, where is the documentation on why the properties were assigned in their original ways. This really sounds like older developers went before, and a later developer didn't get fully briefed on what they intended, didn't see the underlying patterns, and just rode roughshod over them. Not very thoughtful or aware of the wider context.


Put back the original properties (which have balance, strategy and economic implications), and take a look at fiddling the (unused) meta levels instead! You may find that a simple metal level ordering is not possible, hence the arbitrary levels assigned by the original designers, but at least the gameplay is not unnecessarily affected.


Fundamentally, high meta level items do not form a related sequence, so it doesn't make sense to impose one.






Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.19 07:28:00 - [186]
 

Edited by: Hyperforce99 on 19/03/2008 08:47:49


ExclamationExclamationExclamationThis is a nerf in every way, no-one benefits from this.ExclamationExclamationExclamation
I WILL HERE EXPLAIN WHY:

People that find them now won't get as much money as they would have (NERF)

People that owned them now have a module which is far less powerfull than what they paid for it. (NERF)

People hunt in belts for these kinds of modules and if they find one it makes the entire hunt worth while. its the bright spot in a (mostly) long day of grinding rats in the hope to find something that can make you some ISK (thus: NERF)

PVP's / PIRATES search for people with these kinds of modules, if they would lose these modules to hunt for it takes away a part of the pirates fun in shooting other people (thus: NERF)


and to clarify that this was in fact a NERF and a bad one at that take a look at this.

In what relationship should a invention STAT which only comes into play when you use a module for invention EVER play a role in the effectiveness of a extremely rare module that can't be use for invention anyway.
Items with a high metalevel can't be used for invention, also how can one define the metalevel for an item that is both extremely rare and powerfull, in other words, the named items metalevels (especially the officer ones) where not aligned to the modules stats in the first place.

so this is why changing the stats of these modules was a WRONG change:

1: What does metalevel (invention difficulty level) have to do with the effectiveness of a for invention unusable module.
Thus METALEVEL is NOT a Rarity-O-Meter!!!

2: Why would someone re-align stats of modules to METALEVEL which wasn't even in-line with the RARE modules in the first place, therefor this STAT (METALEVEL) was NOT in line with the modules themselves.
and therefor changing the stats of the module to fit the METALEVEL was WRONG!

3: People spend loads of money on these modules and it is generally by the playerbase considered unethical and immoral to STEAL/NERF something people worked so hard on to get. (this applies mainly to the (rare modules).

4: Its out of line with the rest of the factions modules stats.

5: Finding a rare module was something people looked forward to because of obvious reasons, but now all of a sudden this mechanic was NERFED horribly.



with my arguments above I stand by my point:



This STEALTH NERF was based on a wrong imprementation of a stat called METALEVEL.

The STEALTH NERF was unpronounced, not in the patch notes and therefor should not have been preformed. Especially because the patchnotes clearly stated that the patch TRINITY 1.1 WOULD NOT HOLD NERFS!!!

The STEALTH NERF was preformed wihtout thinking about or taking enough into account the consiquences that this NERF would have on the playerbase.

the people that have been badly effected are:

- Older players who use them to protect they're property (motherships, titans, faction ships) and paid a substantial amount of ISK to get them(they WORKED to make this ISK and has now been stolen from them).

- Rat hunters in 0.0 who use them to keep up they're income while they live in 0.0 (no-one likes to grind for 10 hours, we do it for these officer spawns and they're modules CCP).

- People that by chance while pirating or preforming PVP find a module like this in they're victims loot.




The only possible remedy for this badly implemented, ill-thought up NERF is to UNDO THE CHANGES to the modules that where adversively effected by said NERF.

Thanks for reading.
I hope this cleared up some things and why this NERF was in fact a NERF and why it was a BAD NERF indeed.


Nazriel
Caldari
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2008.03.19 11:03:00 - [187]
 

Edited by: Nazriel on 19/03/2008 11:24:36
Originally by: Back Again


Gistum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Hakim's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Vepa's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 13Question
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 26 tf Question
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

As you can see, the meta level was not the base for the modules changes in the example above, don't you agree?




Add

Pithum B-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 24
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Pithum C-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 11
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 21
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Damn stupid change going live without primitive testing\comparing?
Each new patch brings me to new level of amazement of how "new" devs mess with the game.

This might seem rude, but you are responsible for these poor changes.
And I'm not even using any passive shield resistance stuff, but still care about the changes, because they were badly implemented, if needed at all. Which haven't even been brought for discussion in good time.

Edit:
Calling the changes applied to amps "balancing" is just sophistry, the best passive shield resistance amps were made worse, than before. All top quality amps lost several percent of resistance given, comparing to same pre-patch, so its basically a nerf after all, whatever one would like to call it.

I completely agree that the only resolution is the reverse of all changes to them. These items existed for years of no one ever complaining about them.
But it seems to me CCP would rather ignore this topic, than fix what it had done.

Hyperforce99
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.19 11:23:00 - [188]
 

Originally by: Nazriel
Edited by: Nazriel on 19/03/2008 11:16:05
Originally by: Back Again


Gistum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Hakim's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Vepa's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 13Question
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 26 tf Question
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

As you can see, the meta level was not the base for the modules changes in the example above, don't you agree?




Add

Pithum B-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 24
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Pithum C-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 11
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 21
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Damn stupid change going live without primitive testing\comparing?
Each new patch brings me to new level of amazement of how "new" devs mess with the game.

Calling the changes applied the amps "balancing" is just sophistry, the best passive shield resistance amps were made worse, than before. All top quality amps lost several percent of resistance given, comparing to same pre-patch, so its basically a nerf after all, whatever one would like to call it.



I agree, I think this was done on a whim by one of the devs who might not have been to informed of whats actually going on and sertainly not looking into the consiquences of what he was doing. I think that the response about this being an act of ballancing is basicly an attempt of said GM to cover his own mistake.

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.19 12:11:00 - [189]
 

Originally by: Hyperforce99
I agree, I think this was done on a whim by one of the devs who might not have been to informed of whats actually going on and sertainly not looking into the consiquences of what he was doing. I think that the response about this being an act of ballancing is basicly an attempt of said GM to cover his own mistake.


I think it's a shame that the comparison was done based on

1) A narrow view of shield amps only, isolated from the rest of the faction characteristics

and

2) An isolated view of those modules, taking "Meta Level" as the "Be-all, end-all" tool for comparison without any regard to faction line balancing.

Confused

Fury1980
Federal Navy Academy
Posted - 2008.03.19 12:21:00 - [190]
 

Edited by: Fury1980 on 19/03/2008 12:22:02
lol

amarr whinge, ccp boost them + nerf shield tanks + rob owners of faction mods.

just undo the shield nerf, and problem is solved.

no one *****ed about shield and armour resistances, and ya took it upon yaselves to assume they needed to change.

Now i can see how some of the armour EM resistances needed a bit of a touch up, thats fine, but messing with something that was already, in most cases, quite weak to em, just highlights how much of an band aid company you guys are.

NOW on screwing with faction hardners, well you are just robbing people, there is NO other explanation for it.

WE invest our time in making ISK to buy faction gear, then u go and completely render it useless...yopu take away the very reason we spent hours of our time making ISK to purchase said items, you strip away its value buy making it "cpu freindly" which no one gives a flying about...as such you robbed us of the time we spent to get these items.

So in summing up, you mess with shields resistances (which did not need to be made any weaker to em), you buff amarr weaponry, and you robbed me (and many others) of the countless hours i spent making ISK to buy faction hardners which are now as usefull as **** on a bull..

(yes this is an alt)


some boost patch ya bunch of hypocrites


Laechyd Eldgorn
Caldari
draketrain
Posted - 2008.03.19 12:43:00 - [191]
 

Shield tanking already sucked in pvp, it definetly needed more nerfing, not to mention nerfing all caldari modules in general. We all know caldari rock in pvp.

Sillyness aside, how about boosting shield tanking and missiles so they would be in line with other pvp equipment after all these nerfs and boosts.



CCP Nozh


C C P
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:37:00 - [192]
 

Originally by: Nazriel
Edited by: Nazriel on 19/03/2008 11:24:36
Originally by: Back Again


Gistum B-Type Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Hakim's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 24 tf
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Vepa's Modified Kinetic Deflection Amplifier
Meta Level: 13Question
Kinetic Dmg resistance bonus: 40.6%
CPU usage: 26 tf Question
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

As you can see, the meta level was not the base for the modules changes in the example above, don't you agree?




Add

Pithum B-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 12
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 24
Powergrid usage: 1 mw

Pithum C-Type Resistance Amplifier
Meta Level: 11
dmg resistance bonus: 39%
CPU usage: 21
Powergrid usage: 1 mw



These are indeed inconsistent, my fault.

Originally by: Nazriel

I completely agree that the only resolution is the reverse of all changes to them. These items existed for years of no one ever complaining about them.



The reason I looked into them in the first place was from defects created from numerous bug reports regarding people getting worse than T1 loot from officer spawns, which is of course unfair. Module balance does follow meta-levels, the higher the meta-level, the better.

I'll be taking a look at the shield amplifiers again. I'll post information in the "Game Development Forum" by the end of the day.



Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:42:00 - [193]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
The reason I looked into them in the first place was from defects created from numerous bug reports regarding people getting worse than T1 loot from officer spawns, which is of course unfair. Module balance does follow meta-levels, the higher the meta-level, the better.
And because of that Pith and Gith needed to be made the same? Estamel and Tobias?

Why not only one module called "Deadspace Kinetic Shield Resistance Amplifier" that everyone drops? Pirate Faction modules weren't put into the pirate faction LP stores because "we try to minimize the amount of locations where you can get the same items" (CCP Greyscale) and you increased them Sad

Originally by: CCP Nozh
I'll be taking a look at the shield amplifiers again. I'll post information in the "Game Development Forum" by the end of the day.
Thank you.

CCP Nozh


C C P
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:48:00 - [194]
 

Originally by: Mioelnir

Why not only one module called "Deadspace Kinetic Shield Resistance Amplifier" that everyone drops? Pirate Faction modules weren't put into the pirate faction LP stores because "we try to minimize the amount of locations where you can get the same items" (CCP Greyscale) and you increased them Sad



I'll try to deviate them a bit more, but keep in mind, with modules like these I've only got two attributes to play around with.


Ethaet
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:53:00 - [195]
 

Interesting how this 'nerf free' patch has more nerfs than many other patches I have seen.

Nobody cares about cpu usage, as you don't faction fit frigs Confused

I agree that if tanking is going to be nerfed, speed tanking and ewar need nerfing too.

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:54:00 - [196]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
I'll try to deviate them a bit more, but keep in mind, with modules like these I've only got two attributes to play around with.
I know, and believe me, I didn't throw a party either when a Raid Leader NPC dropped a Republic Fleet Reflective Plating or a Gallente Navy Small Smartbomb.

But not every module from a faction line can be equally good. And if one of the factions characteristics is "low cap consumption", well, then you've simply lost if you get a passive module Smile

Willow Whisp
Sadist Faction
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:55:00 - [197]
 

Edited by: Willow Whisp on 19/03/2008 16:59:46
Originally by: CCP Nozh

I'll try to deviate them a bit more, but keep in mind, with modules like these I've only got two attributes to play around with.



Thanks for looking into it further Nozh.

Please just keep in mind the relationship between the other existing complex and officer items, and how they relate to each other (i.e., how Gist and Pith relate in terms of fitting requirements vs resistance bonus - that is, gist tends to be lower bonus in exchange for way easier fitting, and pith is higher fitting in exchange for significantly increased resistance) - also look at the relationship between low-end officer named, and high-end complex named.

There generally is an existing correlation, for example, Vepa with Pithum, and Tobias with Gistum.

We do really appreciate you looking into the overall faction picture, as long as those relationships are taken into account, to keep it consistent with the rest of the faction tables.

-Willow

Ninja Edit:
Originally by: CCP Nozh

Module balance does follow meta-levels, the higher the meta-level, the better.


Yes and No, Nozh. While the higher the meta-level, the better (in general terms) you also need to keep in mind that the statement should be "The higher the meta level, the better for that faction

A meta level 14 Gist Shield Item will be "worse" (bonus wise) than a meta level 14 Pith Shield item, because that's the Gist/Pith relationship progression.

While a meta level 14 Gist X MWD will be "Better" than a meta level 14 Core X MWD, due the same reasons.

Nazriel
Caldari
Monks of War
DarkSide.
Posted - 2008.03.19 13:59:00 - [198]
 

Edited by: Nazriel on 19/03/2008 14:01:24
Originally by: CCP Nozh




Thank you for your reply.
I was wrong about you and beg your pardon.

But do you agree that the lack of information on changes for these shield resistance amps before they hit tranquility led to inconsistences and defects?

And, hopefully, now players will have a topic to discuss the proposed changes to these amps, and spot any mistakes made in their stats, before changes go live.

Edit:
That and the stuff Willow Whisp said, please keep the cross faction module relationship.

Hectaire Glade
Forum Jockey
Posted - 2008.03.19 14:00:00 - [199]
 

Originally by: Willow Whisp

Thanks for looking into it further Nozh.

Please just keep in mind the relationship between the other existing complex and officer items, and how they relate to each other (i.e., how Gist and Pith relate in terms of fitting requirements vs resistance bonus - that is, gist tends to be lower bonus in exchange for way easier fitting, and pith is higher fitting in exchange for significantly increased resistance) - also look at the relationship between low-end officer named, and high-end complex named.

There generally is an existing correlation, for example, Vepa with Pithum, and Tobias with Gistum.

We do really appreciate you looking into the overall faction picture, as long as those relationships are taken into account, to keep it consistent with the rest of the faction tables.

-Willow


^^^^Best post I've seen in days

CCP Greyscale

Posted - 2008.03.19 14:30:00 - [200]
 

Originally by: Mioelnir
Why not only one module called "Deadspace Kinetic Shield Resistance Amplifier" that everyone drops? Pirate Faction modules weren't put into the pirate faction LP stores because "we try to minimize the amount of locations where you can get the same items" (CCP Greyscale) and you increased them Sad



I don't know exactly which thread I made that reference in so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the thinking there was that we wanted to reduce the number of items obtainable from multiple distribution mechanics (LP store, asteroid belt drops, mission rewards, deadspace complexes etc) to prevent price distortions propagating across different professions in an adverse manner. This has no bearing on differentiation between items coming from the same distribution mechanic (deadspace drops in this case). Sorry if there was any confusion there! Smile

Mioelnir
Minmatar
Cataclysm Enterprises
Ev0ke
Posted - 2008.03.19 14:39:00 - [201]
 

Originally by: CCP Greyscale
I don't know exactly which thread I made that reference in so I'm not sure exactly what was said, but the thinking there was that we wanted to reduce the number of items obtainable from multiple distribution mechanics (LP store, asteroid belt drops, mission rewards, deadspace complexes etc) to prevent price distortions propagating across different professions in an adverse manner. This has no bearing on differentiation between items coming from the same distribution mechanic (deadspace drops in this case). Sorry if there was any confusion there! Smile
That was what I meant, I just couldn't express it so nice.

I stand corrected *bows head*.

Reatu Krentor
Minmatar
Void Spiders
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2008.03.19 15:25:00 - [202]
 

WTB new tinfoil hat for me

my old one is getting worn out.
After the nid change to armor tank and then this change, it's like... like... they want everyone to armor tank

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.19 15:41:00 - [203]
 

Originally by: CCP Nozh
The reason I looked into them in the first place was from defects created from numerous bug reports regarding people getting worse than T1 loot from officer spawns, which is of course unfair. Module balance does follow meta-levels, the higher the meta-level, the better.

I'll be taking a look at the shield amplifiers again. I'll post information in the "Game Development Forum" by the end of the day.
It's true that Domination / gist shield amps were nearly worthless. They are worth changing. But all the guristas / pith stuff was good.

The best thing you could do is to look at the way missile launcher stats are handled. Guristas line of missile launchers offers the best ROF but ever increasing CPU usage. On the other hand, the Domination line of missile launchers offers slightly less ROF but much better CPU usage. Exact stats can be tweake for balance, but this idea of variety would be really good.

namelessclone01
Caldari
blackbox ops
Posted - 2008.03.19 21:25:00 - [204]
 

Good job, Nozh, on ripping things out of game context and aligning diversified and origin-related mods along some warped simplified row of numbers!

What you did wrong (and why it was fine as it was) is perfectly explained by Willow Whisp, Mioelnir, and many others in this thread.

Good job, CCP, on letting it through without double-checking how it conforms to the original logic behind the diversity!

Good job, CCP PR guys, on boldly calling it a nerf-free patch!

PS: next time you look at some other expensive mods, please, inform the public, so i may stop using them and sell them off in advance..
Also next time we get another nerf-free patch, i'll be scrutinizing every module i use and protecting my behind with a 1600mm rolled tungsten plate. ugh

Back Again
Caldari
Hazardous Situations Club
Posted - 2008.03.19 21:43:00 - [205]
 

I would like to thanks CCP Nozh and CCP Greyscale for the answers in this thread as well the opportunity given to us players in sharing our thoughts. I really love when CCP communicate with us.

I will leave this thread with this last post and take on the appropriate forum that would be Game Development or Features and Ideas Discussion.

Now, to my fellow players, I would like to ask to keep the discussion here as constructive you can, there is no necessity for rants, flame or troll. Of course, CCP Devs don't want to destroy the game, to the contrary, the goal is improve it even more, some changes can't go all right and that only proves that we are all humans behind these Chars.

Thank you, guys, for the Game I love soo much and for your efforts to make it even better. This include all EVE community, Devs, GMs and players. My hats off to EVE community!!!!

Pilk
Evolution
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.19 22:00:00 - [206]
 

Originally by: Malar
Originally by: Pohbis

I take it you support this "consistency" to be implemented on all mods then? 'cause that's what the Dev told us this was all about. Consistency, not balancing active vs. passive, maybe you missed that part?


Actually, i never cared about the mods, i just use whatever fits my goals best at a given moment. If they change it, i simply use another one.

Did you see my cry when they nerfed my sabre to hell and beyond? Nah.. i still have a fully pimped one sitting in one of my hangars.. It is part of the museum now, just like the breacher with the cruiser launchers on it. Remnants of an older version.

The reason why i cant really support these kinds of whine threads is that CCP does these kinds of changes all the time, but people usually only cry if they are affected in a negative manner. The people here arent bothered about consistency, they are bothered about their modules being worser than they used to be.

As mentioned, a few of my corpmates have officer amplifiers that did go from 30% to 40+. Do they whine here? Of course they dont.

Thats my point. The people who really care for this game do not start rant threads in general discussions, they post bug reports / start suggestion threads in the appropriate forums. Nothing more to add really. This ISNT the thread that says: oh please, fix the game as it is broken. This is the thread that says: oh booo fix the game as you screwed it up for me.

Speaking as someone who owns MULTIPLE Domination officer (and equivalent Gistum) resistance amps, as I've been pleading for a boost for them for some time, this change still ****es me off. The changes are entirely against the character of the differences between the pirate races, and, to boot, mess up the officer-to-deadspace equivalency tables even more than they were messed up on these modules in the first place.

Even separate from all of that, the changes to the co-processors are patently absurd and cannot be characterized as anything other than a nerf.

This is some serious bull****, and that's coming from someone whose wallet just went up by 9 digits with these changes.

BTW, thread link over to the GD forum, where Nozh has pledged to fix this. I still want faction co-procs fixed, though.

--P

the thorn
Ryvious Enterprises
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:35:00 - [207]
 

Edited by: the thorn on 26/03/2008 10:38:38
Edited by: the thorn on 26/03/2008 10:36:14
Originally by: Reatu Krentor
WTB new tinfoil hat for me

my old one is getting worn out.
After the nid change to armor tank and then this change, it's like... like... they want everyone to armor tank


everybody knows this.
armor tank ownz pvp, shield tank ownz pve. so lets nerf shield tank.



ps.
skills needed for shield tanking (mixed active and passive hardeners and a shield booster, standard raven fitting, without compensations because they are the same for armor tanking)

Level V
Shield Compensation Rank 2 512.000
Shield Management Rank 3 768.000
Shield Operation Rank 1 256.000

Level IV (because the skill doesnt do anything usefull)
Tactical Shield M. Rank 4 181.020
Shield Upgrades Rank 2 90.510
-------------------------------------
1.807.530


skills needed for armor tank

Level V
Hull Upgrades Rank 2 512.000
Repair Systems Rank 1 256.000
-------------------------------------
768.000




Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Posted - 2008.03.26 10:48:00 - [208]
 

so yeah, you nerfed faction shield resistances.
now nerf armor's one too.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2008.03.26 11:05:00 - [209]
 

Originally by: Sannye
Do you have any idea what they went for before this nerf?

How much isk/time is spent on getting a good set?

/me checks race - amarr... uhm, i doubt you have any idea.

Fast question - do your armor comp. skills work with energized adaptive nano plate?

O.. so you get the benefit of your training time - now do the shield comp. skills work on an invoun. field?




Sorry I'm a few pages late.

Do you see my armor repairing itself?

Didn't think so.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.26 12:42:00 - [210]
 

Originally by: the thorn


everybody knows this.
armor tank ownz pvp, shield tank ownz pve. so lets nerf shield tank.



ps.
skills needed for shield tanking (mixed active and passive hardeners and a shield booster, standard raven fitting, without compensations because they are the same for armor tanking)

Level V
Shield Compensation Rank 2 512.000
Shield Management Rank 3 768.000
Shield Operation Rank 1 256.000

Level IV (because the skill doesnt do anything usefull)
Tactical Shield M. Rank 4 181.020
Shield Upgrades Rank 2 90.510
-------------------------------------
1.807.530


skills needed for armor tank

Level V
Hull Upgrades Rank 2 512.000
Repair Systems Rank 1 256.000
-------------------------------------
768.000





Hull Upgrades Rank 2 = Shield Management Rank 3 (but you get
5% more self healing too)
Repair Systems Rank 1 worse than Shield Operation Rank 1


Want to Buy:

Skill to pay -2% cap for armor repairing (Shield Compensation)
Skill to use -5% powergrid (or CPU) for armor (Shield Upgrades)

If you are sure that they are only SP sinks without advantages ask CCP to remove them and give back you the SP. I dubt you can convince most people that your idea is right.






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