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Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:02:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Burnharder
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Maor Raor
Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.

You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit.
And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4

much better idea


yes a much better idea to make non consensual pvp even more difficult


No, he's right. Turn it around. What is the point of outlaws going into a 0.5 if they cannot initiate an act of aggression, unless it's just so they won't necessarily need to wash their sec status in-between suicide ganks? So,

(1) Outlaws avoid some of the consequences of suicide ganking - this is bad

(2) More empire players head out of 0.5 into 0.6, effectively turning 0.5 into a kind of 0.45, ie. mostly empty.

(3) The whole idea is a non-sequitur, because the premise is based on the fact that empire players will just stick around as normal when their system gets more dangerous. They won't. That is why low sec is so empty.

Neeeeeeeeeeexxt.





1) Pirates already dodge the consequences by using alts. Their sec status drops to -10 and stays there and they don't care for a reason.

2) Why would Empire players avoid 0.5? They would still be safe as long as they don't shoot anyone.

3) Again, system only gets as dangerous to you as you want it to be. You can fire at those pirates or leave them be. They can't engage you first.

The more I think about this idea, the more im starting to like it. Very Happy

Dirk Magnum
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:02:00 - [62]
 

Whoops I misread the OP (and d'oh on that sec standing thing.) Now that I see what they were initially getting at this idea actually sounds pretty good. Make 0.5 a place where pirates can't shoot you first, but you can shoot at them at your own risk whenever you see one. It might serve to function as a more controlled introduction to PvP for newer players, although undoubtedly it will also get a lot of unprepared and overambitious players killed (no problem with that either.)

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:08:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.Wink



A carebear who could probably take you out. Wink


BTW Remind me to get in touch with you after my current war is over and I'll take you up on the offer.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:14:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Hasak Rain
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Yes Captain I pvp in low sec, I just had to explain it in carebear terms so they would understand it.Wink



A carebear who could probably take you out. Wink


BTW Remind me to get in touch with you after my current war is over and I'll take you up on the offer.



Will do. We can have a duel. Cool

Maor Raor
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:23:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Orion Eridanus
Originally by: Maor Raor
Make 0.4 behave this way and you fix 2 problems.

You get carbears into lowsec (Via concord protection) and spread out the empire population a bit.
And you get you outlaw accessable market hubs in 0.4

much better idea


yes a much better idea to make non consensual pvp even more difficult


I cant see how this would make non consensual PvP more difficult.
You would get acces to a fully stocked Market in 0.4 systems that you can access with your mains so it makes it easyer for you.

I mean i realy like the idea suggested but for 0.4 rather than 0.5

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:25:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'd rather see:

-Option to buy a "day pass" for travel through hisec. I can still be attacked by anyone (me being outlaw) and can only return fire if engaged without insta-pop by Concord. This is mainly for quick movement through empire.

-A use for that stupid hack skill beyond NPC exploration. Let me turn off sentries....or plot a route through hisec and disable Concord for x period of time.

Yeah Very Happy.

I'd also like a pony please.




Awesome idea for the hacking

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:32:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: SleepingBuddah
I think it would be fun it the outlaws could live in 0.5
It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.

0.6 and higher works fine now, but 0.5 is like 'border' security between lowsec and highsec and outlaws should be allowed there.

I hate to point out that the LOW SEC systems are the Border where the law is not so in your face, they are in Empire controlled space, you have to pay the empire for your POS to stay there.
Some people understand what they play, others can't comprehend simple concepts and try to mold the game because they don't understand it.
All the OP poster and his supporters want are easy kills gained through baiting etc as they have killed out their current locations, the politics of low and null sec suck so much very few people really want to go there anymore unless part of a gang for a short time to mine/rat, so the OP is trying to invent ways to stay on the spree on the unwary.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:35:00 - [68]
 

How about make this a function of Faction Warfare...

Allow Missions, trade, Construction and what ever else to be used to raise or lower the relitive security of a system...

The more "Lawless" a system gets, the less effective Concord is...

Allow people to use the game mechanics to affect the universe... sounds like a sandbox feature to me... granted, when a .4 system ticks up to .5 the pirates will whine and cry just like the I will when that .5 system in my way turns red... but I will adapt...


Inertial
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:40:00 - [69]
 

I think this is a really good idea. I am moving down to only 1 account now, and I hate switching characters, sending them the nearest hub, buying stuff and then contracting it to my main in low-sec.

I think the best things with this would be:

1. A alternative "pirate" market where we can resupply with the goods that we need.

2. Less people in Jita.

3. Fewer annoyances for pirates. Some will say that pirates will get Eve on easy mode with this, but I disagree. Shopping will actually become HARDER (anti pie gatecamps), but you don't have to use metagaming to achieve this.

Inertial
Did I just do that
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:47:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
I think it would be fun it the outlaws could live in 0.5
It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.

0.6 and higher works fine now, but 0.5 is like 'border' security between lowsec and highsec and outlaws should be allowed there.

I hate to point out that the LOW SEC systems are the Border where the law is not so in your face, they are in Empire controlled space, you have to pay the empire for your POS to stay there.
Some people understand what they play, others can't comprehend simple concepts and try to mold the game because they don't understand it.
All the OP poster and his supporters want are easy kills gained through baiting etc as they have killed out their current locations, the politics of low and null sec suck so much very few people really want to go there anymore unless part of a gang for a short time to mine/rat, so the OP is trying to invent ways to stay on the spree on the unwary.


Your name suits you. Fact is that even if Low-sec is the border systems, there are no markets in low-sec. Some items are simply IPOSSIBLE to come by. I wanted a simple Warp Distruptor T1 a few days back, and there was not a single one available in Placid low-sec. The result was that I had to log on my alt, send him to the next system over, fetch the warp distruptor, bring it back, contract it to my main, etc. This gets tedious really quick, belive me.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.07 13:50:00 - [71]
 

No.

It is very simple, the OP and his supporter want to dodge the consequences of the act they do. I have no doubt that people would find some very creative trick to use a rule change like this to gank people in 0.5 systems, but that is not the problem.

The problem is that the red and flashing people want a "out of jail free" card. You have chose a lifestyle, knowing the consequences, now you want to remove the consequences.

If that was the rule I want to be capable of using the pirate faction agents even if I am at -8 to them and so on. Being -5 or lower has already very little effect, thanks to alts, removing even that last limit is making a mockery of the whole security status concept.

Roy Gordon
Caldari
Caldari Advanced Response Division
Power Of 3
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:03:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Inertial
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
I think it would be fun it the outlaws could live in 0.5
It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.

0.6 and higher works fine now, but 0.5 is like 'border' security between lowsec and highsec and outlaws should be allowed there.

I hate to point out that the LOW SEC systems are the Border where the law is not so in your face, they are in Empire controlled space, you have to pay the empire for your POS to stay there.
Some people understand what they play, others can't comprehend simple concepts and try to mold the game because they don't understand it.
All the OP poster and his supporters want are easy kills gained through baiting etc as they have killed out their current locations, the politics of low and null sec suck so much very few people really want to go there anymore unless part of a gang for a short time to mine/rat, so the OP is trying to invent ways to stay on the spree on the unwary.


Your name suits you. Fact is that even if Low-sec is the border systems, there are no markets in low-sec. Some items are simply IPOSSIBLE to come by. I wanted a simple Warp Distruptor T1 a few days back, and there was not a single one available in Placid low-sec. The result was that I had to log on my alt, send him to the next system over, fetch the warp distruptor, bring it back, contract it to my main, etc. This gets tedious really quick, belive me.


I have no sympathy for you, if you cannot do the time, dont do the crime!
In other words, a pirating career was your choice, hence the terrible standing pirates have. Pirates have to accept the consequences of their actions i.e. practically no access to markets, being generally loathed etc.
And how about doing what most intelligent players do and buy blue prints, do belt ratting and turn the looted mods into mins so you can build the items for yourself? And the same applies to the looted mods from your victims. 0.5 is not low sec, it is fully patrolled Empire space and does not need tinkering with.

Hasak Rain
Amarr
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:09:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Hasak Rain on 07/03/2008 14:10:40
Originally by: Venkul Mul
No.

It is very simple, the OP and his supporter want to dodge the consequences of the act they do. I have no doubt that people would find some very creative trick to use a rule change like this to gank people in 0.5 systems, but that is not the problem.

The problem is that the red and flashing people want a "out of jail free" card. You have chose a lifestyle, knowing the consequences, now you want to remove the consequences.

If that was the rule I want to be capable of using the pirate faction agents even if I am at -8 to them and so on. Being -5 or lower has already very little effect, thanks to alts, removing even that last limit is making a mockery of the whole security status concept.


Yep that is what i have been saying as well. It is also hypocritical when you know the same people will come onto the boards next week and tell some carebear about the "dark, harsh EvE" and how "this isn't Wow" when they whine about something.

On the other hand, it is still an interesting idea. I think it could breathe some more life into Empire and allow more combat to happen there.

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:21:00 - [74]
 

So creating market hubs in areas other than Jita, rens, ours, and amarr is bad idea then?

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:33:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Wet Ferret on 07/03/2008 14:33:28
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
So creating market hubs in areas other than Jita, rens, ours, and amarr is bad idea then?


If they're going to be populated by high skilled criminals in suicide gank-ravens, I think so yeah.

Brainless Bimbo
Minmatar
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:34:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Inertial
Originally by: Brainless Bimbo
Originally by: SleepingBuddah
I think it would be fun it the outlaws could live in 0.5
It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.

0.6 and higher works fine now, but 0.5 is like 'border' security between lowsec and highsec and outlaws should be allowed there.

I hate to point out that the LOW SEC systems are the Border where the law is not so in your face, they are in Empire controlled space, you have to pay the empire for your POS to stay there.
Some people understand what they play, others can't comprehend simple concepts and try to mold the game because they don't understand it.
All the OP poster and his supporters want are easy kills gained through baiting etc as they have killed out their current locations, the politics of low and null sec suck so much very few people really want to go there anymore unless part of a gang for a short time to mine/rat, so the OP is trying to invent ways to stay on the spree on the unwary.


Your name suits you. Fact is that even if Low-sec is the border systems, there are no markets in low-sec. Some items are simply IPOSSIBLE to come by. I wanted a simple Warp Distruptor T1 a few days back, and there was not a single one available in Placid low-sec. The result was that I had to log on my alt, send him to the next system over, fetch the warp distruptor, bring it back, contract it to my main, etc. This gets tedious really quick, belive me.

Markets are Player Driven everywhere in eve, if low sec players just pew-pew and not make/buy/sell locally its totally thier own fault they have to go elsewhere to buy stuff.
I'm 8 weeks old in the game, i make my own WD-I's, why don't you?

sxndy
Gallente
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:37:00 - [77]
 

Sounds like fun.

Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:50:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Wet Ferret
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 07/03/2008 14:33:28
Originally by: Orion Eridanus
So creating market hubs in areas other than Jita, rens, ours, and amarr is bad idea then?


If they're going to be populated by high skilled criminals in suicide gank-ravens, I think so yeah.


Yeah except you can kill the high skilled criminal suicide gank ravens before they can gank your haulers and freighters.

Bohoba
Caldari
Burning Technologies
Atlas.
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:51:00 - [79]
 

won't work people will just leave 0.5 for the same reason they don't go to 0.4 or lower they don't want to be around that environment, and pirates are pirates they won't care about getting concord and will gank all they see.

sorry nice thought just won't work

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2008.03.07 15:06:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Orion Eridanus
So creating market hubs in areas other than Jita, rens, ours, and amarr is bad idea then?


And why this would create new market hubs? No one will move freighters in 0.5 system regularly to get module there them as 0.5 systems have the slowest Concord response time.

Being tagged as the "guy that do regular freighter runs in [insert 0.5 system name here]" is a perfect system to lose freighter and cargo.

So you would get the standard trader using an industrial and selling some items, not a big trade hub. You simply would delete the profession of blockade runner to move modules to refuel low sec stations.

Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.03.07 15:21:00 - [81]
 

I LOVE THIS IDEA!

For me the reason would be to be able to move large combat ships between low sec regions.

Sometimes 2 low-sec regions are separated by 0.5 space which limits low sec roaming (up in the North when I lived in Lonetrek I wanted to go to the Forge via Hakonen - Obe - Ohkunen - Mastakamon <- oh wait that's a 0.5 - frown face).

Sure I could use a friend in a carrier but that's damn expensive in fuel.

Vasile Ion
Posted - 2008.03.07 15:37:00 - [82]
 

This is nonsense, it removes the single consequence piracy has in the game (consequence is saying a lot, more like a minor inconvinience for the majority that just use an alt instead).

The only reason you can't find modules is you shoot the people who would sell them to you ! Rolling Eyes.
There's nothing that's buyable in a 0.5 sytem and not in a 0.4 one.

In fact the game should introduce more ways for industrial people to do "market PvP".
At least make it so that you can choose not to sell to wartargets, people with low security rating, people you have set to low standings, people you have killrights on.

Roy Batty68
Caldari
Immortal Dead
Posted - 2008.03.07 15:56:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Bohoba
won't work people will just leave 0.5 for the same reason they don't go to 0.4 or lower they don't want to be around that environment, and pirates are pirates they won't care about getting concord and will gank all they see.

sorry nice thought just won't work


I find that kind of a bogus arguement against it. If outlaws are allowed into .5 and they are treated just like everyone else in terms of CONCORDOKKEN, but with the added risk of everyone else able to attack them whenever the whim takes, I don't see that inherently increasing the risk for Joe Hisec guy.

I do see it's potential of being a rather overt reminder to people that 0.5 systems can be dangerous. Something that people evidently need since there are suicide ganks occuring daily in .5s as it is. And the suicide gankers of today aren't flashy red...

The irony of the situation is that having some flashy reds about just might make people more aware of the dangers even though the threat from them would be no different from what we have today.


Orion Eridanus
Dark Ashes
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:10:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Vasile Ion
This is nonsense, it removes the single consequence piracy has in the game (consequence is saying a lot, more like a minor inconvinience for the majority that just use an alt instead).

The only reason you can't find modules is you shoot the people who would sell them to you ! Rolling Eyes.
There's nothing that's buyable in a 0.5 sytem and not in a 0.4 one.




There is more than one consequence for becoming an outlaw, the restriction of travel is one, the ability to be shot at by anyone anywhere even in your pod at any time is another. Don't forget that the outlaw will never ever have the advantage of the sentry guns, nor will any of his corpmates or friends if they come to bail him out.

The reason why you can't find modules in 0.4 systems is because people who never leave high sec have this strange thought that every single system in the game that is 0.4 or below is permacamped 23/7 by 800 ships that will instanly pop their ship as soon as it enters the system.




Ridley Tree
Veto.
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:32:00 - [85]
 

It'd make my life easier and I could war-dec some certain annoying corporations and be able to chase their asses into hi-sec systems / use small ships and all sorts of fun stuff against them. It'd make suicide ganking haulers in .5, or miners, or what-have-you, much easier in general. I'd quite enjoy it I'm sure.

Its not going to happen and it'd reduce the penalty for a criminal life-style far too much.

Indeed in the past it was possible for any criminal in a Domi to get all the way up to .9, if not 1.0 by blowing up the cops. That got shut down right quick after a few war-targets got blown up. I don't see the OP's plan happening.

RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:39:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: RuleoftheBone on 07/03/2008 16:41:02
Originally by: Frug
Originally by: RuleoftheBone
I'd rather see:

-Option to buy a "day pass" for travel through hisec. I can still be attacked by anyone (me being outlaw) and can only return fire if engaged without insta-pop by Concord. This is mainly for quick movement through empire.

-A use for that stupid hack skill beyond NPC exploration. Let me turn off sentries....or plot a route through hisec and disable Concord for x period of time.

Yeah Very Happy.

I'd also like a pony please.




Awesome idea for the hacking


Pssssst...don't tell anyone but this would also eliminate the need for OOG spies (for offlining POS's and such...ya know...keep it sort of immersive?). Could even reduce some of the sillyness requiring massive blobs....no...I should stop there. Shhhhhhhhh and tell no one..

Sorry...please return to hisec-v-losec tail chasing. Enjoy and bon appetit Very Happy

**EDIT**I would really like just to cut through hisec (and not bother anyone who didnt hassle me). Just easier access to other losec/0.0 without logistics eh?


Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:25:00 - [87]
 

well right now its essentially a cliff in terms of risk, you have your high sec which is "safe" aside from wars and suicide ganks, and then the lowsec where there is just gank. 0.0 is variable depending on where you are.

what i am really wondering is what does changing .5 (or .4 as some suggested) to a "buffer" zone really affect. why? because i live in a string of .4s, and used to run missions in a .5. changing .4s to the "buffer" would kill how many lowsec systems? although in the .5s sucicide ganking is already occurring (see irjunen). then again along jita pipelines ganks also occur at varying sec statues, and also hulks in various belts. essentially suicide ganks are going to happen regardless of sec status.

who is doing the ganking? mainly from what i see its people from 0.0 alliances (goon/tri), how hard do you think it is to keep a sec status above -2.0 when you have deep 0.0 to rat in? or even -4.5 or w/e it is to go into .5s

anyone have data on how many systems are of what sec aka:
x 1.0 systems, y 0.9 systems, z 0.8 systems, ... , n 0.1 systems, and m 0.0 systems?

the way i see it changing .5 to allow pirates would be a fun change, would let me get ships and stuff much easier. it also gives newer corps/players chances to gang up on solo pirates. even if the pirate has other pirates with him he is still "solo" as his friends cant remote rep or shoot his aggressors. one of the common questions in rookie chat is i see a flashy red guy can i shoot him? lots of times i saw yes but its a bad idea because he will probably blow you up before you can blow him up.

oh and as someone else said if you see a few guys warp into your belt what do you do? if they have positive sec status probably nothing, negative sec status you will either check their ship and align/warp out. or if its a group of flashy red ships hit the warp button Laughing

Wet Ferret
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:25:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Roy Batty68

I find that kind of a bogus arguement against it. If outlaws are allowed into .5 and they are treated just like everyone else in terms of CONCORDOKKEN, but with the added risk of everyone else able to attack them whenever the whim takes, I don't see that inherently increasing the risk for Joe Hisec guy.

I do see it's potential of being a rather overt reminder to people that 0.5 systems can be dangerous. Something that people evidently need since there are suicide ganks occuring daily in .5s as it is. And the suicide gankers of today aren't flashy red...

The irony of the situation is that having some flashy reds about just might make people more aware of the dangers even though the threat from them would be no different from what we have today.



The difference between the gankers of today and the hypothetical gankers of tomorrow (if this idea was real) is that today's gankers are suffering security loss. It's already been proven that you can put together a suicide gank BS that literally costs you nothing at all after insurance. That's why the idea isn't viable.

Quote:
The reason why you can't find modules in 0.4 systems is because people who never leave high sec have this strange thought that every single system in the game that is 0.4 or below is permacamped 23/7 by 800 ships that will instanly pop their ship as soon as it enters the system.


I just have to comment on this because it's so funny whenever somebody says it. Yes, it's a bit paranoid to believe every low-sec system is a pirate infested hellhole that blows you up, pods you, pods your dog and your sister the moment you jump in. But you know who are the ones who die everyday in low-sec? The foolish ones who don't believe it Rolling Eyes

Quite frankly, it pays to be ignorant about low-sec.

AleRiperKilt
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:29:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: SleepingBuddah

I think it would be fun if the outlaws could live in 0.5
It means CONCORD will response on criminal agression, but Navy should not KOS the outlaw.



As a carebear I would rather have it back guards: Faction navies patrol lowsec depending aggression/kills. The more kills/hour in a lowsec system (prorated to its security level) the most likely faction Navy will be camping at its gates/bases/belts. I think it would be a win-win situation. Lowsec would feel "safer" so more carebears would go there and they still would be easy targets to scan down.

Never mind, this could be too easy to exploit: pirates would whack each other in rookie ships until navy pops up to attract carebears Confused

SleepingBuddah
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:46:00 - [90]
 

There is an easy solution to avoid suicide ganking. If you want to mine safely in your hulk (or whatever) - just use noob alt to spawn CONCORD in the belt (shoot at someone's container for example). Now no one will be able to gank you, because there is CONCORD in your belt which reacts instantly on aggression (regardless of system security).


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