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blankseplocked Dear Lord. Another fight ruined by lag. Nothing else matters CCP.
 
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Mihailo Great
Dublin Core
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:14:00 - [61]
 

Temporarily remove fighters form the game. They are broken. Period.

Salliene
Gallente
Paktu Sjet Armada
Galactic System Lords Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:20:00 - [62]
 

Multiplayer games coming out TODAY can't handle 100+ players all fighting in a small area, I don't know why people are still expecting EVE to be able to handle it without major client/server/infrastructure upgrades.

IMO it *IS* a dead horse until the game gets rebuilt from the very first line of code to the very last.

Theres a reason why COD4 and Halo 3 have limited numbers of player per map, and it's not balance. It's so that you don't get a crappy lagfest like you do in a major fleet battle in EVE.

Even Blizzard doesn't have the hubris to try and squeeze 100+ players into a single dungeon and expect it to work.

Viglen
Gallente
Taurus Inc
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:46:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Surreptitious

Thats not how WOW works. I am routinely in fights much larger than the "100 cap" you reference. And not only do the animations and graphics render well and timely but there is literally no lag. I push a button in the middle of the crowd and within 1 second the action takes place. Why cant EVE do that or even come close. With EVE you push a button and maybe, maybe 1-2 minutes later it works.

And you say CCP is very interested in fixing the problem then I would argue they either have incredibly inept people working on it or are just flat out lying. I personally have been waiting almost 4 years now for it to get better. The scary part is it has only gotten worse.

Syrup


I had to read this a few times to get it, and then I did something I haven't done in years, I pressed quote!

first of all, Eve didn't have such crippling lag before capitals were introduced, or at least in my experience plus what I've heard from players I know.

Second, you sound like a dedicated "WOW" player which leads me to think that you've played "WOW" since day one!

Were you by any chance forced to buy a new computer when you started playing "WOW"?
If so, then your old comp was probably the Laggy part when u played EVE 4 years ago!

And EVE evolved into capital warfare while you played "WOW", am I right?

EVE can't be compared to other MMO's because of how fundamentally different it is from other games! (one cluster)

I have only recently noticed the horrid lag thad people are talking about, Jita isn't worth mentioning since it's our market "capital"!
This lag that I'm referring to has been happening in Verge Vendor, Red vs Blue, and a fight in cist before that.

Capital fleet fights is something that I'm not familiar with because I was in 0.0 just as they were entering the game and were a rare sight, which only strengthens my opinion on Capitals and the fleet around them being a major lag fest.
Resources have probably been taken from areas within the game that aren't straining the servers, then Verge becomes a gank fest for a number of party's and ppl like me feel the lag, and I'm talking about the same lag that you are complaining about.

bahh i could go on and on, but I'll just be patient as ever and ride it out until IBM and CCP have put together they'r supercomputer :)

consider telos
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2008.03.07 14:54:00 - [64]
 

Even when ccp do get their super computer up and running I still don't think it'll be a magic fix for the lag. I think ccp need to take a look at the gameplay mechanics. Mainly the pos mechanics. That's the only time when you get stupid lag. Pos warfare is boring and lag intensive. The sovereignty system made it even worse.

Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:34:00 - [65]
 

Edited by: Matrixcvd on 07/03/2008 16:34:44
Originally by: Salliene
Multiplayer games coming out TODAY can't handle 100+ players all fighting in a small area, I don't know why people are still expecting EVE to be able to handle it without major client/server/infrastructure upgrades.

IMO it *IS* a dead horse until the game gets rebuilt from the very first line of code to the very last.

Theres a reason why COD4 and Halo 3 have limited numbers of player per map, and it's not balance. It's so that you don't get a crappy lagfest like you do in a major fleet battle in EVE.

Even Blizzard doesn't have the hubris to try and squeeze 100+ players into a single dungeon and expect it to work.



the problem here is that it use to be fine, 100 people in a system worked great, fun fights yada yda yada, 200 people, no problem. After RMR, we started to get quite a bit more lag, after REV, we got desynch and with the POS changes got more lag, after trinity we got craptastic effects, desynch huge lag, TQ hits 40k and there is no going back to when things were better.

Dev's, thru mismanagement, have imposed game mechancis changes that have exasperated technical capability of the server and then been quite rude about acknoweldging player loses due to the combination of shorted sighted game design, and lack of motivation to upgrade equipment.

thats the problem

AleRiperKilt
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:46:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
I'm no programmer, but common sense tells me that if there was a quick fix to lag problems, CCP would have done it already.


I don't mean this as a flame but CCP could start by trying Oracle. I mean, WTF?, Microsoft SQL?

Also I would love to take whack at their database queries, I bet I can squeeze some performance out of that code.

Kerdrak
GreenSwarm
Black Legion.
Posted - 2008.03.07 16:57:00 - [67]
 

CCP have to fix only one problem:

1. Game mechanics on 0.0 warfare.
2. Game performance.

It's so hard?

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:10:00 - [68]
 

Originally by: Kerdrak
CCP have to fix only one problem:

1. Game mechanics on 0.0 warfare.
2. Game performance.

It's so hard?


QFT TBQFH.

Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:31:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Lindsay Fox
Lag is definitely the most important problem in Eve right now, to the 10% of subscribers who live in 0.0

For the other 90% of paying customers, it means very little.

Thread fails due to extreme myopia.


what % of the 90 wants to go to 0.0 but doesnt want to deal with the crazy lag fest we call fleet fights?

also how many people whine about jita/other highsec lag?

Thorek Ironbrow
Caldari
CAPS Holding
Capital Storm
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:34:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Solution: GTFO of your blob. You know what you're in for when you sign up for a massive 0.0 alliance, and you lose the right to complain about lag at that point. I'm no programmer, but common sense tells me that if there was a quick fix to lag problems, CCP would have done it already. I just stick to small gangs and it's never a problem.


Quote for truth.

Surreptitious
Isk Sink Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.07 17:47:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Viglen
Originally by: Surreptitious

Thats not,,,

Syrup




first of all, Eve didn't have such crippling lag before capitals were introduced, or at least in my experience plus what I've heard from players I know.

Second, you sound like a dedicated "WOW" player which leads me to think that you've played "WOW" since day one!

Were you by any chance forced to buy a new computer when you started playing "WOW"?
If so, then your old comp was probably the Laggy part when u played EVE 4 years ago!

And EVE evolved into capital warfare while you played "WOW", am I right?

EVE can't be compared to other MMO's because of how fundamentally different it is from other games! (one cluster)

I have only recently noticed the horrid lag thad people are talking about, Jita isn't worth mentioning since it's our market "capital"!
This lag that I'm referring to has been happening in Verge Vendor, Red vs Blue, and a fight in cist before that.

Capital fleet fights is something that I'm not familiar with because I was in 0.0 just as they were entering the game and were a rare sight, which only strengthens my opinion on Capitals and the fleet around them being a major lag fest.
Resources have probably been taken from areas within the game that aren't straining the servers, then Verge becomes a gank fest for a number of party's and ppl like me feel the lag, and I'm talking about the same lag that you are complaining about.

bahh i could go on and on, but I'll just be patient as ever and ride it out until IBM and CCP have put together they'r supercomputer :)


I would agree 4-5 years ago EVE did not have nearly as bad lag. It did seem to start getting "bad" around the time caps came in but i dont know if thats coincedence or not.

I havent played wow since day 1. EVE about 4-5 years, WOW 2-3 with only 2 level 70s. In the begining it was EVE over WOW maybe 10 hour to 1. Over the years as lag got worse and game play less fun that ratio has essentially flipped. Not to mention all of my RL buddies left EVE completely for WOW.

4 years ago my PC situation was fine and I would argue EVE both then and now is more demanding on hardware than WOW. Back then it was a 3.0P4, nowadays its a E8400. Like I said I had less lag back then and agree it was enjoyable.

I played EVE all the way thru the cap warfare game, my mainw as the first person accepted into the MC(actually just BDCI back then) who wasnt one of the RL inner circle of friends. I played though it all, from our fake contracts against CLS before we even worked with the Sharks all the way to our current situation with Tortuga. I agree, anythign cap/territory related is boring and sucks the life out of the game.

And yes, we could go on and on. I am doing the same as you in a sense. I dont really "play" EVE anymore. I play othergames and am just hoping one day either somethign new/fun(faction warfare) happens in EVE or they sort the servers out.

Either way, we on the same page. Smile

Syrup

Zagum Darkfin
Ghosting Corp
Posted - 2008.03.07 19:17:00 - [72]
 

Guys, did you get the memo?? This is a TURN BASED SPACE TRADING SIMULATION GAME. Come on, where the hell do you get the idea that its about large scale PVP?? Some people.ugh

Dirtee Girl
Rage of Inferno
Minor Threat.
Posted - 2008.03.07 20:08:00 - [73]
 

Master of orion 4?

Aaron Mirrorsaver
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.07 20:13:00 - [74]
 

the problem is your computer can't handle the amount of people. its your frame rate causing the lag.


whats was your frame rate? Slide show? like 0.00001 frames per second? as in you see a slight movement every 5 seconds? Thats CPU hog, thats not network stuff.

Poor frames will then lead to high ping and massive lag, hence your 60 second module activation....

to those who say we're whining.... we play the game this way because we like the 0.0 stuff and politics etc...

they'd be lying if they didn't agree that everyone role plays at least 10%. or do you REALLY care about your pixellated empire and mothership in 0.0?

the 0.0 alliance game is an enjoyable one for more hardcore players who spend more time at eve...


Prez21
Alpha Strike.
Posted - 2008.03.07 20:21:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Prez21 on 07/03/2008 20:29:02
Originally by: Qarth
Get out of your blob. Problem solved.

You blobing Alliances are the reason lag is as bad as it is. Doesn't take rocket science to figure out that if you don't blob you don't get lag.

200-300 in system in a fleet fight. Yeah you got what you came for, Lag. Drop down to around 30 a side and you'll have more fun.

You signed up for blob warfare, live with it.


I love posts from idiots like this who know nothing about the game.

0.0 Is the most valuable space in game, to control this space you need poses, to destroy these you need lots of ships. CCP has made it that if you want to control 0.0 space you need lots of numbers is that too hard for an idiot like you to understand?

Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
En Garde
Posted - 2008.03.07 20:22:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Solution: GTFO of your blob. You know what you're in for when you sign up for a massive 0.0 alliance, and you lose the right to complain about lag at that point. I'm no programmer, but common sense tells me that if there was a quick fix to lag problems, CCP would have done it already. I just stick to small gangs and it's never a problem.


Here's the truth of it.

Karash Amerius
Sutoka
Posted - 2008.03.07 20:27:00 - [77]
 

Well TBH, it would be nice to see a different system taking (and holding) gameplay within Eve. Maybe with plantary warfare? I don't think there is any player alive that thinks POS warfare is "fun"...it is just a mandatory evil for taking and holding systems.

Sha Dar
eXceed Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.07 21:13:00 - [78]
 

Exactly, and yet CCP in their "infinite wisdom" decided to expand on it rather than streamline/overhaul it with performance in mind.


William Alex
Viscosity
Ocularis Inferno
Posted - 2008.03.07 21:15:00 - [79]
 

Everyone is talking about promoting smaller gang warfare by nerfing gangs. Why not just buff smaller gang sizes and leave large gangs the way they are now?

Like if you're in a 1 squad gang your Command bonus is trippled

2 sqaud gang = doubled
3+ = normal

Haradgrim
Systematic Mercantilism
Posted - 2008.03.07 21:23:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Gort
Originally by: Karyuudo Tydraad
Solution: GTFO of your blob. You know what you're in for when you sign up for a massive 0.0 alliance, and you lose the right to complain about lag at that point. I'm no programmer, but common sense tells me that if there was a quick fix to lag problems, CCP would have done it already. I just stick to small gangs and it's never a problem.


Here's the truth of it.


I agree, its absolutely rediculous for players to feel that an intended part of the game should be playable!

So what if Fords explode when people drive them, only 10% of the population drives them. Who cares if they like Fords, they know what they are getting into when they buy one....


You guys fail, horribly and epically. Wink

Sky Marshal
IMpAct Corp
Not Found.
Posted - 2008.03.07 21:41:00 - [81]
 

Edited by: Sky Marshal on 07/03/2008 21:50:35

Originally by: William Alex
2 sqaud gang = doubled
3+ = normal


Bad idea. An alliance can ask to create the appropriate number of gangs to make a pseudo-fleet and take advantage of the bonus.

CCP know that it is more important to take care of the 90% empire players than the 0.0 ones. New graphics, Ambulation, etc... concerns only empire players, as a good fleet member will disable all things who can affect his client in a fleet battle, and will have better things to do than play Ambulation.

I don't think CCP will launch his "supercomputer" this year, but will prefer create new features.

Jorena
Minmatar
Pator Tech School
Posted - 2008.03.07 23:24:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Surreptitious
Thats not how WOW works. I am routinely in fights much larger than the "100 cap" you reference. And not only do the animations and graphics render well and timely but there is literally no lag. I push a button in the middle of the crowd and within 1 second the action takes place. Why cant EVE do that or even come close. With EVE you push a button and maybe, maybe 1-2 minutes later it works.


I quit EVE not long after the L70 cap expansion came out. The primary new 'feature' was in not having any new 40-man instances. We fought through every 40-man, top Horde on our server, through excruciating lag and instance server crashes. Blizzard's answer in the end was to just not do that anymore because they simply couldn't handle 40 people on one server. (I quit, as did many, because while the 40-mans were laggy, they had improved greatly by then, and we wanted more 40-man instances. Blizzard effectively destroyed most large raiding guilds, including mine.)

Granted, the lag is a HUGE issue here. I've been in tons of fleet battles with hundreds of people in system. The problem is CCP can't fix it without making major changes to the way the server software is designed. My last understanding is while it was threaded, an individual system instance was still limited to using a single CPU. This needs to be fixed, which I don't think can be done using Python the way they do. They also need to be able to take advantage of newer networking technologies that use direct memory access, which is another huge change in the server software.

I don't see any of this ever getting fixed properly in EVE. All they can do is change game mechanics to reduce or eliminate all blob warfare.

Maybe if there is ever an EVE2 or a new MMO project they will write it correctly from the start.


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