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blankseplocked EVE, A victim of it's own success?
 
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Turzyx
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.03.03 12:07:00 - [61]
 

People seem to have forgotten what the game was like 4 years ago. It was almost the same as it is now. Gate camping, ninja looting, 'can flipping', market scams, escrow scams, they were all commonplace. There was loads of smak in local, and plenty of forum whiners complaining about it.

Anyone who remembers otherwise is dillusional.


The only thing that's changed is the fact there are more people now. More people to camp gates, set up scams, or smak in local, giving the appearance that it happens more frequently, or that a higher percentage of people are involved in those activities. You only need to look at the 'number of people in empire' thread to realise this is not the case.


In addition, people being nostalgic about the 'old times' seem to have forgotten how to behave themselves. You've taken up an extreme position of wanting people to be 'nicey nicey' to each other, or exercise a high level of 'sportsmanship'. Unfortunately with people of your extreme position being attracted to the game, there are of course those of the other extreme being attracted aswell.



flakeys
The Great cornholio's
Paper Tiger Coalition
Posted - 2008.03.03 12:13:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Taylor
I think that this is not an eve problem, its a general internet problem these days. Its the norm to speak and act like an idiot where ever you are on the internet. its weird to have watched this happen over the last 4 or so years starting in small communities, now its pretty much the norm.


This....

Looking back yearrrrs ago when i started playing Dark Age Of Camelot , Everquest and Star wars galaxies it was all different.

In my perception WoW didn't add anything to mmorpg's but broke the whole community and the new batch of mmorpgs.Now adays you have loads of mmorpgs and 99% of them are not even average gamewise , and the community , well don't get me started about the community since WoW came.

haveyou seenthisman
Imperial Academy
Posted - 2008.03.03 12:19:00 - [63]
 

Darwinsim. Evolution.

These terms apply just as much to the game itself as they do to facets of the game.

long story short: everything changes, you either go with it or you move on.

Cerzia
Posted - 2008.03.03 12:34:00 - [64]
 

Edited by: Cerzia on 03/03/2008 12:35:05
this, 2 years ago

Roy Gordon
Caldari
Caldari Advanced Response Division
Power Of 3
Posted - 2008.03.03 13:40:00 - [65]
 

My experience of playing on-line games goes back about 15 years or so. I can tell you that all games suffer from this type of problem, until the game no longer becomes popular. At that point, lots of players, generally the PvP’ers, up and leave for the new game in town, leaving the hard core players to a dying game. If you want evidence of this you only have to look at games such as Ultima On-line where they have just a small hard core, who tend to be in the main role-players, who are barely keeping their games alive.
Once games like ‘X-Online’ and ‘Elite Online’ start appearing you will probably see the younger, less respectful, crowd leave in droves to inflict themselves upon those games, leaving the hard core players to play Eve like they want to.
And as for forums and disrespectful postings, go take a look at the Age of Conan official site, that game is not even up and running yet!!!

Euriti
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.03.03 14:08:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: CopyCatz
Originally by: Guttripper
There are no consequences for being anonymous on the Internet.


Well last week I saw a news item about the CIA monitoring online games for potential terrorist behaviour. Man they are going to have a field day with the player base of Eve...


Haha indeed :-) All the pirates, suicide bombers and jihadswarmers will get hunted down irl by the CIA.

Neddy Fox
Gallente
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.03 14:09:00 - [67]
 

I come from another MMO, which was *really* a niche game.. OB had thousands of players, but after retail it went back to about 1500.
In that game, at least half of the players where smacktards. No PVE possible, so mining / producing was hell, it was 0.0 everywhere :P

I still don't know why that game was so attractive to young players, probably because it was more an MMOFPS then a MMORPG game. 1st person, guns etc..
This game died in october, when the forums where DDOS-sed for weeks, and cheats where the norm, and the distributor pulled the plug.
Heck, I'm even GM there, the developer is working on a new version of the game, but I doubt I go back.

NOT paying attention to local smacktalk, and having good friends to play with is the way to go. You can absolutely ignore most of the idiots.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.03 15:45:00 - [68]
 

I agree with the sentiments expressed by the evil Minmatar terrorist.

The situation hasn't been helped by CCP's neglect of important story-lines.

Ulstan
Posted - 2008.03.03 16:41:00 - [69]
 

Quote:
finally I had found a game with like minded mature people, everyone wanted to help each other out


Quality of the playerbase has definitely declined. When the game was new, there was a much greater feeling of community (helped by the fact there just weren't that many players) people were eager to help each other with knowledge, manufacturing, ratting spots, how mechanics worked, etc. Even the pirates were polite (if I do say so myself!) The forums were studded with absolute gems of information and players banding together to chase down the exact mechanics behind different game functions.

Now, in game chat and the forums both have absolutely descended into the gutter. The amount of whining carebears, whining pirates, can I have your stuffers, inept smacktalkers, and idiots without a clue has increased exponentially.

Not much CCP can do to change the composition of the playerbase, but they could at least ban trial accounts from posting in anything other than new player Q&A. And be a lot more strict on moderating crappy posts :p

Paeniteo
Vengeance Imperium
Wildly Inappropriate.
Posted - 2008.03.03 17:24:00 - [70]
 

Edited by: Paeniteo on 03/03/2008 17:45:14
Originally by: Nebulous
In my first months of playing EVE it wasnt just the great graphics, the vast feeling of being in space or even the exhilirating PVP! That made EVE so great? No! It was the community, finally I had found a game with like minded mature people, everyone wanted to help each other out and apart from the exception of the few, everyone was in general a good, decent person. PVP unlike now was fun and for most people considered honourable, people would fight for their own cause be it for roleplay reasons or not and a duel would always be honoured by the two people agreeing to it, then win or lose you went away from a battle with a feeling of just having a good fight and would always acknowledge your enemies achievement.



Well, this being my third character in my incremental returns to eve, I've got some pretty good snapshots of the changes in the community as the years have gone by.
EVE feels a lot more cramped now. Before, you knew who your friends and enemies were. Chatting with the locals meant chatting with 6 other people - there was more potential for a tighter knit community and worse repercussions to screwing that community over. Now it's a clusterfunk and faces are a blur. EVE has gone from 'Railroad Town' to 'Soylent Green' where it's so cramped nobody cares what you think.

The smack, theft and scamming has always been around though. Some of the best scams in EVE history were pulled off in the early days when the creme of the crop were still scrambling to get their first Apocs. I think you're looking back with rose tinted glasses if you remember a lot of honour, fairness and a complete lack of bastards ugh It's just that there's so many people now it's hard to dodge.

But I mean, there used to be a LIST of ore thieves on the forums. Imagine that? Even the thought now is just bizarre. I think what you're talking about is a population issue. EVE needs people who do dirty work, there just needs to be less concentration of it going on.

Galk
Gallente
Autumn Tactics
All the things she said
Posted - 2008.03.03 18:44:00 - [71]
 

Currently being looked at by the uk goverment.

The culture, media and sports committee have begun an inquiry into the potential risks from harmful material on the Internet and in video games.

While the time for submissions has now past, after being made aware of this by a colugue at work, i made my own submission to the committee based on my experiences in eve, how they were dealt with, and sadly how they had an influence on my life outside the game, which should have never come to be had they been dealt with in the correct manner.

Needless to say, if anything else these types of investigations now being undertaken by goverment bodies should serve as a forewarning to organsations such as ccp to tighten up and enforce their rules and policy in a more vigilant manner.


Linkage

Nuyan Zahedi
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.03 19:49:00 - [72]
 

To the above post: Governments better stay the hell out of the internet with their censoring bull****, instead they should come up protecting the privacy of their citizens more.

But that's offtopic. Better reply to the Local-Brutor, which is not so local anymore, that opened this topic. I've seen this kind of discussions in about every internet community. I think it has a lot to do with there just being more people; more competition, more loudmouths making more noise, more crowded. I guess it's a lot less one big community now, but with it's unsharded nature and player-drivenness Eve will always stay very strong as community compared to other big games. As long as CCP keeps Eve-O unsharded and running, without implementing too many mechanics that screw up the sandbox, it's fine.

It's a lot harder making a name for yourself in the whole galaxy now compared to a few years ago, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Is more players on Tranquility a bad thing? I don't really think so. I think you can answer this whole issue with; It's really what you make of it yourself. Create your own communities, alliances, base out in a constellation and make it your own, create your own fun. There's no game where the principle of "Do It Youself" applies more than Eve Online.

So..
1) Overall perhaps..
2) Make your own fun. Show the good example.

Originally by: Everyone Dies
I like your name Nebulous, how much for the char?


Die.

Nebulous
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.03.03 20:51:00 - [73]
 

I'm glad to see that this thread has sort of contradicted my original post, this thread for the best part has been a discusion instead of a flamefest, lots of opinions and counter opinions instead of the usual "your wrong because I say so" type posts we often see on CAOD etc, I think many people who would have liked to have flamed this thread have kept away so as not to prove my point to be correct Smile, but yeah it's good to see for the best part that this thread has attracted some of the better people of EVE, even those two scumbag slavers Rodj and Nuyan hehe.Laughing

Oh and Nuyan!? I keep telling you i'm not a Brutor Very Happy

Nyabinghi
Minmatar
Re-Awakened Technologies Inc
Posted - 2008.03.03 21:56:00 - [74]
 

To Komen,

I never make an uninformed, ignorant, bias opinion though I admit that I shouldn't condemn the entire CS community in one bold statement. So I apologize for that. I played CS to discover what it was that drew so many people to the game. I gave it a thorough chance to entertain me. I found the players for the most part immature in a number of ways. Let's face it, the game doesn't cater to brilliant strategists, it's not much of a thinking man's game. Spawn-shoot-die-respawn-repeat is the crux of the gameplay, so it is of all deathmatch styled games. You can throw in vehicles, better graphics, different guns, the ability to walk on walls...After about an hour, when you've adjusted to the new features, you're left with basically the same primitive game. If there is a hell it must be a place where you do nothing more than run around senselessly killing others who never actually die and neither can you, so you spin in this endless cycle of death.

Back to the thread at hand. Of course there are people who will always pay their monthly subscriptions forever and ever simply to play EVE as it is or rather how dominating members of the community have shaped it to be. I'm sure CCP realizes this and so that is why you haven't really seen anything truly revolutionary implemented in the gameplay for quite some time. You get boosts and nerfs to ships and guns and modules. You get better graphics, more missions, more space for the mega alliances to conquer. All in all though nothing truly evolutionary in gameplay dynamics. Now...Ambulation, Faction Wars, finally implementing a decent bounty system, giving people constructive goals in-game as oppose to everything being about war and destruction, these things if implemented could revolutionize the game. I believe for the better of all types of players.

As it stands now EVE has increasingly catered to players who want to do nothing more than get in a ship and shoot other ships. Players who don't care about EVE's storyline, role-playing, politics and economy. And when these types of players do not feel catered to enough they seek to break the game or seek out loop-holes so they can turn EVE completely into Counter Strike in space. So I think it's a matter of 'reap what you sew'.

I can understand why many new players have little or no interest in role-playing. EVE's storyline has been receding further and further into the background as the day to day player game usurps everything. So much of the EVE we play with other players directly contradicts the storyline that I think a lot of people don't see the point in RPing if ever they were inclined to. It's rather sad because I think the game is at it's best when the role playing community is at the forefront.

Chirruper
Posted - 2008.03.03 22:12:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
I played CS to discover what it was that drew so many people to the game. I gave it a thorough chance to entertain me. I found the players for the most part immature in a number of ways.


I will second this. I have never heard so many racial slurs in my life than I had playing CS for about 2 months.

Ma Zhiqiang
Minmatar
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.03.03 22:16:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Nyabinghi
I can understand why many new players have little or no interest in role-playing. EVE's storyline has been receding further and further into the background as the day to day player game usurps everything. So much of the EVE we play with other players directly contradicts the storyline that I think a lot of people don't see the point in RPing if ever they were inclined to. It's rather sad because I think the game is at it's best when the role playing community is at the forefront.


/signed

mayhem slaughter
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.03 22:33:00 - [77]
 

This has always been a flamefest, if you want real info you go to Scrap Heap and let the quasi intellectuals stay here and flame each other. "It bonuses! Not Boni" "WTF IS BONI O M G" lame.


Laerise
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.03 22:41:00 - [78]
 

What Rodj said.

We want emperor now! [Sarum one please..? With choc bits on top...? No...? Crying or Very sad ]

And also what Nuyan says, DIY is the name of the game.
Sure my own two to five arc's are unknown to like almost everyone except people involved in them, but then.. it's still a lot of fun.
The more the players do, the more likely it is to meet up somewhere, to prove this you just have to look at 0.0 "politics". Somewhere someone is going to clash with someone else about something, you just have to make a few more somethings to up your chances for experiencing such a clash yourself Smile

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.03.03 23:14:00 - [79]
 

Edited by: Val Vympel on 03/03/2008 23:15:54
Originally by: Nyabinghi


As it stands now EVE has increasingly catered to players who want to do nothing more than get in a ship and shoot other ships. Players who don't care about EVE's storyline, role-playing, politics and economy. And when these types of players do not feel catered to enough they seek to break the game or seek out loop-holes so they can turn EVE completely into Counter Strike in space. So I think it's a matter of 'reap what you sew'.

I can understand why many new players have little or no interest in role-playing. EVE's storyline has been receding further and further into the background as the day to day player game usurps everything. So much of the EVE we play with other players directly contradicts the storyline that I think a lot of people don't see the point in RPing if ever they were inclined to. It's rather sad because I think the game is at it's best when the role playing community is at the forefront.


This...and...this.

I have played MMO/MMORPG games now almost exclusivly for the past 5 years. I also have participated in debates concerning this very subject on the forums of several of the games that I have played.

I am always left with this thought after the debate...

Why do these game/software developers even bother to incorporate a storyline,economy or any non-combat feature at all into the games they disign and market?

What is the point? Not ONE of the MMO's that I have played caters at all to the RP oriented player. Immersion if there is any,always takes a backseat to the hardcore,min/maxing,metagaming crowd.

Why do these game companies waste the talent,time and imagination...not to mention money even bothering to develop these very detailed game worlds if they have no intention of enforcing the boundaries that a game labeled an MMORPG suggests?

Why don't they just advertise them to be what most if not all of them are...MMOFPS?

The one and only solution that I have been able to think of is to market an MMO at a substantially higher subscription rate of perhaps as high as 4x the current average.

I and many others who truly want to "get into" the game would gladly pay the price...IMO.

The day,if it ever comes,that an MMO developer decides to "step outside the box" and offer the public a product that serves the need of RP'ers and the immersion oriented and that doesn't appeal to the masses....

That company will not only have my money...they will have my unswerving loyalty and gratitude.

One can hopeSmile

Cheers

"If you market to the masses,it is a MOB that you will get."




Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.03 23:34:00 - [80]
 

Quote:
The day,if it ever comes,that an MMO developer decides to "step outside the box" and offer the public a product that serves the need of RP'ers and the immersion oriented and that doesn't appeal to the masses....
That would involve heavy handed moderation. There would be a war between the power gamers and game GMs. It would probably escalate to bannings by the 100s per day, weekly DoS'ing attacks on the game and the forums, weekly bashing of the game devs on news sites.

If GMs win the fight inside the game, the power gamers will take this fight outside the game.

It'd be pretty epic.

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.03.04 01:01:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote:
The day,if it ever comes,that an MMO developer decides to "step outside the box" and offer the public a product that serves the need of RP'ers and the immersion oriented and that doesn't appeal to the masses....
That would involve heavy handed moderation. There would be a war between the power gamers and game GMs. It would probably escalate to bannings by the 100s per day, weekly DoS'ing attacks on the game and the forums, weekly bashing of the game devs on news sites.

If GMs win the fight inside the game, the power gamers will take this fight outside the game.

It'd be pretty epic.


If that scenario did play out it would be EPIC,I agree.Laughing

However....

Would that possible scenario even be very likely at all?

What power gamer is going to pay say..$59.99 USD a month to play a game where their playstyle is neither welcomed or supported by the playerbase or the game developers?

I and I'm sure many others want a CHOICE.

I don't want yet another developer making yet another game with only the graphics,interface and storyline being the difference. At the bargain basement price of 14.99 USD per month that assures that the community will eventually suck and immersion gets tossed out the window.

I want a different game experience.
And I would be willing to pay much more for it.Much moreWink
And so would many others.

After 5 years and 4 MMO's all 14.99 USD per month has bought me are luke warm,watered down products filled to the brim with the flotsam and jetsam of society.

I say it is time to up the ante,and see just where the "buck" stops.

CheersWink




Neddy Fox
Gallente
FireStar Inc
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.04 01:12:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Neddy Fox on 04/03/2008 01:14:47
Edited by: Neddy Fox on 04/03/2008 01:12:07
To the 3 posters above me :

That's what happened with Face of Mankind.. The game developers always focussed on RP, and the GM's (including me) tried to enforce it.

It doesn't help. The community is hardening (I work on an highschool) to the point that mature people who want to socialize in a RPG game are laughed at, and ridiculed by a small (but growing) group of loud-mouths..

Chirruper
Posted - 2008.03.04 01:17:00 - [83]
 

Edited by: Chirruper on 04/03/2008 01:16:46
Originally by: Val Vympel

What power gamer is going to pay say..$59.99 USD a month to play a game where their playstyle is neither welcomed or supported by the playerbase or the game developers?




This is, pardon me for being frank, one of the dumbest things I have read on the forums. This is almost as much as my cable bill, twice as much as my power bill, enough to support a 1/2 pack-per-day smoker. . . this doesn't shut out the unwilling, it shuts out the unfunded. There are already people who hold 4 accounts at once with their own money and they even more power-gamer than the one-subscription RP'er. There are also people who sell GTCs in bundles who can afford it so they can afford to gank, so forth, so forth.

If that was too long to read, you are basically saying that poor people are responsible for griefing in EVE. Way to think big there.

Maor Raor
Posted - 2008.03.04 01:27:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: Chirruper
Edited by: Chirruper on 04/03/2008 01:16:46

If that was too long to read, you are basically saying that poor people are responsible for griefing in EVE. Way to think big there.


No
What they are saying is they would pay more for a game without smacktards and griefers.

I would to

Chirruper
Posted - 2008.03.04 01:37:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Maor Raor

No
What they are saying is they would pay more for a game without smacktards and griefers.

I would to


And I'm saying that is a miserable failure. People would just insist they pay to play the way they want, which can include any playstyle regardless of how much the RP/devs can browbeat them. Some people feed off of that. You would be limiting the subscription base through an unreasonable method. I've seen very polite communities in F2P games - much more so than EVE or WoW. There is no connection, no matter what the devs try to encourage.

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.03.04 02:11:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Chirruper
Edited by: Chirruper on 04/03/2008 01:16:46
Originally by: Val Vympel

What power gamer is going to pay say..$59.99 USD a month to play a game where their playstyle is neither welcomed or supported by the playerbase or the game developers?




This is, pardon me for being frank, one of the dumbest things I have read on the forums. This is almost as much as my cable bill, twice as much as my power bill, enough to support a 1/2 pack-per-day smoker. . . this doesn't shut out the unwilling, it shuts out the unfunded. There are already people who hold 4 accounts at once with their own money and they even more power-gamer than the one-subscription RP'er. There are also people who sell GTCs in bundles who can afford it so they can afford to gank, so forth, so forth.

If that was too long to read, you are basically saying that poor people are responsible for griefing in EVE. Way to think big there.


Your honesty is appreciated.

I want you for a moment to think of the finest steakhouse in your area. Does that restaurant care one iota that you may not be able to afford their fare? Is that restaurant going to make it a point to add cube steak to the menu just to be PC and satisfy the economic level of all that pass thru their doors?...Answer:NO they do not and NO they would not.

So why should Online Game Developers?

Your economic status has absolutly ZERO bearing on the products and service that the steakhouse decides it wants to market to the public.

If the power gamer is so hell bent on dominating a game with metagame tactics that he/she is willing to pay 4x what he is paying now for 4 accounts....then more power to him.
I applaud them....BUT I can guarantee you there won't be many.

The sale of GTC's I hold beyond contempt,as do many many PAYING EVE customers.

And thankfully no..I do not blame the poor for anything.
I blame the sociopathic,cognitive nimrods with a one track mind towards everything that they do,regardless of age or socio economic status.I also blame the game developers who permit it and are to spineless to bounce "the bad apples" into the rubbish,and make a definitive stance as to what they are selling to the public.

A filet mignon is a filet mignon no matter where you buy it.
It is the expeience of the restaurant that you choose that matters.

CheersWink


Wensbane
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2008.03.04 02:16:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: flakeys
In my perception WoW didn't add anything to mmorpg's but broke the whole community and the new batch of mmorpgs.Now adays you have loads of mmorpgs and 99% of them are not even average gamewise , and the community , well don't get me started about the community since WoW came.


Hmmmmm, I'm not so sure. 10 years ago when I was into Ultima Online, things were just as bad as they are today (in terms of griefing, smack talking and all that stuff).

Some people just like harrassing others online, I very much doubt that will change anytime soon...

Val Vympel
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
Posted - 2008.03.04 03:18:00 - [88]
 

Edited by: Val Vympel on 04/03/2008 03:30:39
Edited by: Val Vympel on 04/03/2008 03:26:21
Edited by: Val Vympel on 04/03/2008 03:24:24
Edited by: Val Vympel on 04/03/2008 03:19:09
Originally by: Wensbane
Originally by: flakeys
In my perception WoW didn't add anything to mmorpg's but broke the whole community and the new batch of mmorpgs.Now adays you have loads of mmorpgs and 99% of them are not even average gamewise , and the community , well don't get me started about the community since WoW came.


Hmmmmm, I'm not so sure. 10 years ago when I was into Ultima Online, things were just as bad as they are today (in terms of griefing, smack talking and all that stuff).

Some people just like harrassing others online, I very much doubt that will change anytime soon...


I agree...it won't change as so long as the game developers fail to impliment any design features or game mechanics to stop them.

For example....

How about a non-optional language filter?
Is this too difficult or expensive?
Would this feature cause the loss of accounts?
Will a non-optional language filter ruin the immersion of the game?

You could still be vulgar on TS or Vent..if you get your kicks from that kind of thing.

The general public doesn't need to know about the size of someones genitals or see a 4 letter word in every third word of a sentence.

This is only ONE very minor step that could be taken.

Would it make it impossible for a player to harass another? No,of course not,but it would take an option off the table for them.

Think about it...

Cheers



Wynsdae
Minmatar
Republic Security Section 9
Posted - 2008.03.04 09:58:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Wynsdae on 04/03/2008 10:01:15
Edited by: Wynsdae on 04/03/2008 09:58:44
As a newer player I will say that the community of this game is pretty crappy. I like the game, but honestly since I started playing back last October I had my first nice conversation with a stranger just last night, almost 5 months later after starting. All past conversations were either good natured ribbing after a fight, or less than mature rants after something similar.

Everything I view in this game, is either a scam, a setup, or some form of trap. Call me paranoid or call it the "Golden Rules" this game does not lend itself to be a friendly game when the game is MADE to be unfriendly.

Someone asks for help with a mission? He's trying to set me up for a gank.

Some miner tells me to go ahead and loot the rats that I'm salvaging? He's just trying to get me to aggress.

This game is anti-community. Scamming, lying, and betrayal are lauded and awarded. I don't mind it, I have thick skin, but it's a rough game imo.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2008.03.04 10:09:00 - [90]
 

I agree generally with the spirit of what you are saying. Eve has gotten far to big for its own good. Now when I say that, I generally mean that there are far too many people online for the number of systems in game. This I think can lead to some of the problems you're reporting, but not all.

Is part of the community immature? Yes. Is that part of the community growing? Certainly. As the game attracts more players from other games, as you've pointed out, we get the bad as well as the good.

The degradation of the certain parts of the forums, like CAOD can in large part be blamed on goonswarm. Who have "orders" to disrupt the forum as much as they possibly can. Perhaps CCP should police this forum more, and pass out IP forum bans for repeated disruptive behavior.

I don't however think that roleplaying is the answer. Let me start off by saying I am a long time roleplayer, at least the pencil and paper variety. I have never found that MMOs are the least bit conducive to roleplaying. Certainly, I don't think that you should chastise people for not wanting to participate in roleplaying.

If you wish play in that style, that's fine. However, if someone asks you to not address them in character, whether that be in a convo, in an eve-mail, or in local, then you shouldn't (and vise versa). At the very LEAST you shouldn't come complaining to the forums that someone has asked you to refrain trying to roleplay with them if you are just unable to comply with that request.


-Karl


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