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FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:19:00 - [1]
 

FRPB dividend is now overdue.

IF the bond-issuer were regularly active here then thatwouldn't be a big deal. But Ionia hasn't exactly shownsigns of life for months.

With immediate effect, FRPB is considered a junk-bond by Fury Bank and is no longer acceptable as collateral for loans.

Total exposure (if this turns out to be a scam) is less than 4bill to Fury Bank (i.e. less than 1 week's profit for Fury Holdings) so there's no need for any investors/depositors to panic. And that liability is only incurred if those who took out loans secured on FRPB shares choose to default.

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:41:00 - [2]
 

In fairness I should be clear that this is in no way claim by me that Ionia is scamming. It's simply a statement that if someone chooses not to be active here AND opts to not pay dividends on time then Fury Bank is going to treat their shares/bonds as being worthless.

Should dividends not have been paid by late next week then all FRPB shares held as Fury Bank as collateral will be written off and the loss removed from next week's profits. Anone who borrowed ISK secured against FRPB shares is, of course, expected to still honour their debts - and will be listed as having defaulted should they choose not to do so.

Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:42:00 - [3]
 

This is an interesting move. If you really believe the shares nolonger have value I would have expected you to divest yourself of them before announcing that. Quietly refusing to accept them would have worked just as well as publicly refusing to accept them and it wouldn't have created the sort of panic that will devalue your clients bonds that this may. I feel that you could have done this in a way that wouldn't have hurt the holders of those loans nearly as much and/or have saved Fury Bank 4B if it does turn out to be a scam. You can certainly argue that you're putting the interest of the community first but when your clients' bonds are suddenly highly devalued they may not care.

Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:47:00 - [4]
 

Edited by: Marcus Baltar on 02/03/2008 01:04:31
Edited by: Marcus Baltar on 02/03/2008 00:52:30
Hmm, haven't we been here before (late FRPB dividend) but it was paid in the end, and just a couple of days late. Smile

However, I too would like a little more communication from Ionia. Smile

edited bit; actually it is a day late this month, and my mistake, the February dividend was paid the first of the month (so not late).

edited bit 2; the day late this month is really only a few hours old.

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:49:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Hmm, haven't we been here before (late FRPB dividend) but it was paid in the end, and just a couple of days late. Smile

However, I too would like a little more communication from Ionia. Smile


No, last time it was paid on time - just a lack of presence here led people to panic before it was due. There IS a big difference.

Marcus Baltar
Savaran Zhayedan Spah
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:54:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: FastLearner
Originally by: Marcus Baltar
Hmm, haven't we been here before (late FRPB dividend) but it was paid in the end, and just a couple of days late. Smile

However, I too would like a little more communication from Ionia. Smile


No, last time it was paid on time - just a lack of presence here led people to panic before it was due. There IS a big difference.

Knew I should have made a new post - see my edit Smile

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 00:56:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: FastLearner on 02/03/2008 00:59:17
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
This is an interesting move. If you really believe the shares nolonger have value I would have expected you to divest yourself of them before announcing that. Quietly refusing to accept them would have worked just as well as publicly refusing to accept them and it wouldn't have created the sort of panic that will devalue your clients bonds that this may. I feel that you could have done this in a way that wouldn't have hurt the holders of those loans nearly as much and/or have saved Fury Bank 4B if it does turn out to be a scam. You can certainly argue that you're putting the interest of the community first but when your clients' bonds are suddenly highly devalued they may not care.


Why would I keep it quiet? With or without an announcement there's no way I'd be taking FRPB as security on new loans. The existing loans I have secured vs FRPB have no payment due in the next few days - so this post has no impact on them. Were a payment due on a loan then (obviously) I'd have kept quiet untuil it were paid - but that isn't the case.

On previous FRPB "scares" I've kpt quiet - as it's a bond and, provided payments are made on time, there's no foul committed by a lack of activity here. But the instant a bond which has no discernable life is late then I have an obligation to shareholders in Fury Holdings to inform them of a potential loss - which is what I'm now doing. This default has zero impact on Fury Bank depositors - they carry no liability for bad investments or defaulted loans. But it does, potentially, have an impact on Fury Holdings shareolders and also on anyone considering buying FH shares.

As a company owned by the public, Fury Holdings has an obligation to promptly deliver any information whichrelates to the value of its shares. The late payment by a bond which we hold a chunk of (as collateral on loans) merits such speedy disclosure - especially when the issuer of said bond has been visibly totally inactive for months. Hope that explains the position to you: were this RL and I failed to disclose this then I'd risk penalty for non-disclosure and/or insider-trading were I to then trade FH shares.

Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires
Barely-Legal
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:02:00 - [8]
 

I am happy to confirm that there are 4b (at face value) in bonds held by Fury Bank I have offered as collateral on a loan. As that loan is paid down to a degree, I dont see that there is a 4b exposure but thats up to Fury Bank to handle his book keeping.

I also have no qualms about Fury Bank making a public statement about the delayed dividends. Ionia has been late in the past and has sometimes posted about it but late + absent is not a good look. I'm happy to pay that loan down immediately Fury, rather than have your books take a 4b potential hit based on a now "unsecured" loan. It'll also reduce my interest payments. Surprised

First payment was wired to Dr Smog a few days ago and I believe their should only be around 3b outstanding, don't have figures right in front of me, so just let me know how you would like to handle the situation.

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:08:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: FastLearner on 02/03/2008 01:09:19
Originally by: Trading Bunnz
I am happy to confirm that there are 4b (at face value) in bonds held by Fury Bank I have offered as collateral on a loan. As that loan is paid down to a degree, I dont see that there is a 4b exposure but thats up to Fury Bank to handle his book keeping.

I also have no qualms about Fury Bank making a public statement about the delayed dividends. Ionia has been late in the past and has sometimes posted about it but late + absent is not a good look. I'm happy to pay that loan down immediately Fury, rather than have your books take a 4b potential hit based on a now "unsecured" loan. It'll also reduce my interest payments. Surprised

First payment was wired to Dr Smog a few days ago and I believe their should only be around 3b outstanding, don't have figures right in front of me, so just let me know how you would like to handle the situation.


You can continue paying off as you would have previously. No way I'm going to expect early repayment from those whose loans are scured against FRPB - if you wanted to scam any such demands wouldn't help me. All demanding early repayment/new collateral would do is to unfairly penalise those who had no intention of defaulting anyway.

Your loan wasn't counted as 4bill when assessing our exposure - it was counted just as the amount you currently owe. You aren't the only outstanding loan secured against FRPB :)

Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires
Barely-Legal
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:13:00 - [10]
 

Damn. Laughing

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:19:00 - [11]
 

If Ionia pays last month's interest and you'd like me to sell off the FRPB shares I hold as collateral for you, then let me know. I'm happy to do so - and refund you the balance over what you owe. If, on the other hand, you're confident they still have long-term value, then I've no problem continuing with our current arrangement. Personally, I'm not aware of any previous occasion when Ionia has vanished from sight for months AND paid late - and I'd not continue to remain invested under those circumstances. But if you choose to, then that's your decision.

Trading Bunnz
Equatorial Industires
Barely-Legal
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:23:00 - [12]
 

TBH, if she pays interest (late), then I don't mind too much. I have far more exposure to FRPB than the 4k shares you hold. In fact, if she does pay, even just late, I'll probably go to market and buy some more from panicked investors for cheap. Razz

My degree of trust in Ionia is pretty high and until there is undisputed evidence that she is gone, its likely to stay that way. Being a day late isn't evidence enough for me.

I was merely trying to ride your statement to get early payment of the loan and reduce interest. Can't fault a man for trying right? Laughing

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 01:32:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Trading Bunnz
TBH, if she pays interest (late), then I don't mind too much. I have far more exposure to FRPB than the 4k shares you hold. In fact, if she does pay, even just late, I'll probably go to market and buy some more from panicked investors for cheap. Razz

My degree of trust in Ionia is pretty high and until there is undisputed evidence that she is gone, its likely to stay that way. Being a day late isn't evidence enough for me.

I was merely trying to ride your statement to get early payment of the loan and reduce interest. Can't fault a man for trying right? Laughing


Heh, had forgotten you were on a loan where you had limited pay-back capability in return for a lowered rate :)

Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
Posted - 2008.03.02 07:27:00 - [14]
 

But will you still accept FIN and FIN-U shares? I see no announcement about them and they were overdue last month and appear overdue this month. And no activity on here from Eefrit. Shouldn't the same rules apply?

Shadarle
Posted - 2008.03.02 07:38:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
But will you still accept FIN and FIN-U shares? I see no announcement about them and they were overdue last month and appear overdue this month. And no activity on here from Eefrit. Shouldn't the same rules apply?



I'd imagine they aren't on the top of his mind as he prob has none that were used as collateral. But it's a good question none-the-less.

EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
Posted - 2008.03.02 08:28:00 - [16]
 

I see Eefrit ingame a little bit, however I never see Ionia outside the 1 hour dividend window. Now, that may be due to Ionia using only alts for his operation or me always missing him...

However Eefrit responds to emails when he is available. I have spoken to a couple of people in game who haven't had replies to their evemails to Ionia for almost 2 months now.

EBANK are following suit in regards to FRPB shares being held as security. We have approximately 2b in loan securities of FRPB I believe so our exposure to a possible loss isn't great.

FastLearner
Fury Holdings
Brutally Clever Empire
Posted - 2008.03.02 10:30:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Ray McCormack
But will you still accept FIN and FIN-U shares? I see no announcement about them and they were overdue last month and appear overdue this month. And no activity on here from Eefrit. Shouldn't the same rules apply?



Not sure what the "still accept" means - I've never been offered, let alone taken, FIN or FIN-U as security. And no - I wouldn't take them as security.

The exception I made with Ionia isn't ceasing to take the shares as collateral - it's taking them in the first place after Ionia had done a vanishing act.

I fully expect the dividends to show up some time this week - but I've just no interest at all in taking shares/bonds as collateral where there's (near)zero communication from the issuer.

Ardent Rellik
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.03.03 10:58:00 - [18]
 

I see some people from this thread are panicking and are already trying on offload Ionia's shares... he he he he.....

Oh well, we shall see at one point or another if this was a scam or just RL that brought the enterprise down.

YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
Posted - 2008.03.03 11:56:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: YouGotRipped on 03/03/2008 12:00:58


It was bound to happen. Perpetual bonds, hahah.

Exactly how much did you people recover out of your initial investment? In percents, of course.


 

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