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Cryos Ylwan
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.02.29 12:45:00 - [121]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

As for why it is immoral, it's because there is a REAL person on the other end, someone that invested REAL time and REAL effort to get money to purchase the ship and fittings. They might even have invested REAL money by selling gametime cards, or the destruction of their ship might result in them not having the ISK to pay for next month, also resulting in them having to pay REAL money due to your actions. In a game of counterstrike you don't have to work for a week or so to recover if you die, in Eve you have, thus inflicting damage on other players is just as immoral as trashing your neighbors property for fun. The ships and other things are not real, but the time invested to obtain them definately is. I grind to pay for my stuff in Eve, just as I work in real life to purchase the stuff I want. Eve isn't just a game, it requires hard work, which isn't fun to do all the time.



The difference is that your neighbour didn't have the choice of joining real life or not, whereas, if you decide to join EVE, you are informed how it works and therefore agree to live and play in this, admittedly, rather hostile environment. Yeah, I mean, you kind of have a choice in real life too, but that involves killing yourself, so...not quite the same as simply ending your subscription.
It might be immoral, but you joined anyway, so why are you complaining?

Merokh
Minmatar
Republic University
Posted - 2008.02.29 12:51:00 - [122]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah


Eve isn't just a game, it requires hard work, which isn't fun to do all the time.




Seriously, you are now scaring me a little bit. It might just be me, but I'm getting visions of an obese middle-aged man sitting in the basement of his mothers house, smelling of hamsters and other obscure animals, living or dead.

Ask yourself this question: If I don't like what I'm doing, or what my enviroment is forcing me to do, why should I continue it ?

EvE for me is not "hard work". Hard work for me implies either physical labour or intense mental concentration, neither of which I find in EvE. When I get tired of managing the training of skills or seeing roids fly by every other minute, I go outside and run a lap or 3 around the block, maybe go make a nice sandwich or buy some icecream for my girlfriend just to get my mind of things.

What I'm trying to say is that if you're not enjoying what you are doing or what you feel are forced to do in order to progress, get out of there. Go and do other stuff to refuel your mind and come back when those EVE cravings come back :)

Yarr to all pirates YARRRR!!

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 12:51:00 - [123]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

As for why it is immoral, it's because there is a REAL person on the other end, someone that invested REAL time and REAL effort to get money to purchase the ship and fittings. They might even have invested REAL money by selling gametime cards, or the destruction of their ship might result in them not having the ISK to pay for next month, also resulting in them having to pay REAL money due to your actions. In a game of counterstrike you don't have to work for a week or so to recover if you die, in Eve you have, thus inflicting damage on other players is just as immoral as trashing your neighbors property for fun. The ships and other things are not real, but the time invested to obtain them definately is. I grind to pay for my stuff in Eve, just as I work in real life to purchase the stuff I want. Eve isn't just a game, it requires hard work, which isn't fun to do all the time.


Shocked

I don't know where to begin...

Why are you grinding to get stuff in Eve? Let me start with that question. Is it so you can get a sense of accomplishment of having a bigger ship than the next guy? Having a bigger wallet than your corp mates? If so, that's pretty pointless, and your ego deserves to get shot down. I mean, seriously, you gotta have some real issues if you need to feel acomplished in a video game.

Do you grind for the sake of grinding? I.e, do you like running missions and mining and stuff? If so, why get angry if someone blows you up? I mean, you can always grind more. In fact, it's more challenging grinding away and making sure you always have enough stuff and isk left to be able to complete a mission, or meet a quota on minerals.

Except for those two, the only reason I can see anyone grind in Eve is to pay for PvP, and I don't think that applies to you.

Now, for the morality bit. You think it's immoral to shoot someone else in a competitive pvp game? The CS comparison is not bad at all. Sure, it won't lose you as much time as being killed in Eve, but you do lose your good camping spot, or the time it took for you to get to where ever you where. Or, let's say you're playing Monopoly. You wind up on a hotel, you lose a lot of money, setting you back quite a bit. Why is it bad to play competitively in a game like Eve, while it's ok to do so in a game like Monopoly?

I don't think I've ever met someone like you before, so you really interest me. If you're a troll, you are very convincing. I mean, you seriously take the "stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-yell-lalala-approach" 10 steps further than most. You claim to have been playing Eve for years. You claim to design computer games IRL. Yet, you fail to see what is so obvious about Eve. It's a pvp game. It's a dog-eat-dog world. It's competitive gaming. It's not "watch digits on screen grow bigger". I mean... seriously...

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Actually, is Eve a game at all?

According to Roger Callois' The Definition of Play, games must be 'unproductive', defined as: "Creating neither goods, nor wealth, nor new elements of any kind; and, except for the exchange of property amongst the players, ending in a situation identical to that prevailing at the beginning of the game."

Since ISK means gametime means real money, the game has a quantifiable outcome in real life, thus according to Roger Callois definition, Eve would not be a game.

There are many game theorists that came up with different definitions, but it is widely accepted now that there is a large grey area between obvious games, and things that obviously aren't games (take Russian Roulette for example here).




You really should stop playing Eve, and I am serious here. It's apparently not good for you, as a game should be relaxing and enjoyable. You don't appreciate some of the core aspects of this game, and you get all worked up about pvp in a pvp game. Seriously, find another game. For your sake.

Luthien Firefoot
Caldari
V I R I I
Merciless.
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:02:00 - [124]
 

One of the reasons I love these forums is that when you read tripe like this it makes you realise that no matter how mental you think you are, there are always ppl in here who are waaaaaaay further off the rails.

It make me laugh at work and thats a good thing.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:04:00 - [125]
 

Originally by: Antodias
So you're a super game programmer and have been playing EVE since its inception, but you:
-still can't distinguish between real life and the game and -still insist on playing it when it clearly promotes PvP/PKing which you find "immoral"?

Becauase it clearly promotes PvP and PKing in lowsec/0.0 and while possible, it should be very limited in Highsec.

Originally by: Antodias
I've lost plenty of ships and pods. Some from PvP and a few from suicide ganking, and I have very little ISK at any one time. But I don't log off and throw my monitor at the wall and then type out a huge rant, I adapt and get on with it.

Hehe, no I don't get hysteric and throw my monitor, stamp my feet and scream at things either.

I just feel disappointed that the killer is capable of doing such a thing. I'll never understand that. Surely people have some kind of concience, and some empathy and compassion towards other people? Maybe they just forget that there's a real person behind those ships. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're ruthless psychopatich sadists. Maybe they haven't been hurt in real life. I've been bullied throughout my entire youth, beaten up, my stuff stolen and destroyed, spit on and eggs thrown at me. I'm not going to tell my entire life story here, but I learned that I'd NEVER hurt another person, as I know how it feels to be hurt.

Originally by: Antodias
I've been playing for only 2 years, yet I see this huge rants all the time and they always get flamed to hell. Thus I find it very hard to believe that you've actually been playing for 4 years and expect everyone to have an epiphany when they read your posts.

I never really felt the need to go to the forums, as there wasn't much to complain about, highsec was safe enough, now it is not.

Originally by: Kribu
Can you please contract me your corpse and some exotic dancers?

Please do that in Jita 4-4.

ktxbye


Sure, give it a few days. Send me a reminder mail ingame will you?

Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
If you ask CCP really nicely, they might build a "bank guards recsu recdu" macro as your personal I-win-button. They might even throw in an "I ban thee" macro to remove all other (potentially evil) players from the system you're traveling in.

Last time I checked, guards could only be called in town, and towns are supposed to be relatively safe (towns weren't 100% safe, people could still snoop and grab stuff from your backpack if they were lucky). I ban thee only works in your house (and only in the later versions of the game, at that!), which definately is supposed to be a safe place in UO.

Originally by: Lil'Red Ridin'Hood
And regaining sec status (from my personal experience) is very time consuming, not to mention utterly boring. It's nothing like the "kill a few rats" as you put it. It's more like "kill a few hundred rats" - if not thousands.

I'm quite sure that the criminal is nowhere near as inconvenienced his victims are.

Dai Nau
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:09:00 - [126]
 

Ankhesentapemkah: bad fakeposter or the worst fakeposter?

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:11:00 - [127]
 

Originally by: Dai Nau
Ankhesentapemkah: bad fakeposter or the worst fakeposter?


I really truly hope so, because frankly, I'm scared.

Dana Foxworth
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:15:00 - [128]
 

Edited by: Dana Foxworth on 29/02/2008 13:15:46
Originally by: Dai Nau
Ankhesentapemkah: bad fakeposter or the worst fakeposter?


Actaully, I thought it was some great fakeposting up until the bit with getting beat up and eggs thrown at him. Gave the gig up way too easy.

Cryos Ylwan
Pilots Of Honour
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:24:00 - [129]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I just feel disappointed that the killer is capable of doing such a thing. I'll never understand that. Surely people have some kind of concience, and some empathy and compassion towards other people? Maybe they just forget that there's a real person behind those ships. Maybe they don't care. Maybe they're ruthless psychopatich sadists. Maybe they haven't been hurt in real life. I've been bullied throughout my entire youth, beaten up, my stuff stolen and destroyed, spit on and eggs thrown at me. I'm not going to tell my entire life story here, but I learned that I'd NEVER hurt another person, as I know how it feels to be hurt.



If you haven't yet, please seek psychological assistance. And I'm not saying this to insult you.

Boidhche
Coherence LLC
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:28:00 - [130]
 

Edited by: Boidhche on 29/02/2008 13:28:49
Wheee.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:30:00 - [131]
 

Originally by: Ki An

Shocked

I don't know where to begin...

Why are you grinding to get stuff in Eve? (snip need characters)

I don't have any corpmates, I play this game all by myself. I guess I'm the typical player that sees Eve as a singleplayer game with a nice integrated chat (and I hardly even use that thing). Well it's nice that all these other players are there so I can buy stuff I don't feel like grinding myself, and sell all my trash to which I don't need. So, other players see lowsec as their playground? Fine, no problem, I'll just stay out of there, and I'll keep steering clear of anyone that tries to force PvP on me, even if that means I'll only run level 2 courrier missions in the middle of nowhere for a while, which is exactly what I'm doing when mining isn't safe enough anymore either.

Originally by: Ki An
Do you grind for the sake of grinding? I.e, do you like running missions and mining and stuff? If so, why get angry if someone blows you up? I mean, you can always grind more. In fact, it's more challenging grinding away and making sure you always have enough stuff and isk left to be able to complete a mission, or meet a quota on minerals.

Except for those two, the only reason I can see anyone grind in Eve is to pay for PvP, and I don't think that applies to you.

Now, for the morality bit. You think it's immoral to shoot someone else in a competitive pvp game? The CS comparison is not bad at all. Sure, it won't lose you as much time as being killed in Eve, but you do lose your good camping spot, or the time it took for you to get to where ever you where. Or, let's say you're playing Monopoly. You wind up on a hotel, you lose a lot of money, setting you back quite a bit. Why is it bad to play competitively in a game like Eve, while it's ok to do so in a game like Monopoly?

I don't think I've ever met someone like you before, so you really interest me. If you're a troll, you are very convincing. I mean, you seriously take the "stick-your-fingers-in-your-ears-and-yell-lalala-approach" 10 steps further than most. You claim to have been playing Eve for years. You claim to design computer games IRL. Yet, you fail to see what is so obvious about Eve. It's a pvp game. It's a dog-eat-dog world. It's competitive gaming. It's not "watch digits on screen grow bigger". I mean... seriously...

You really should stop playing Eve, and I am serious here. It's apparently not good for you, as a game should be relaxing and enjoyable. You don't appreciate some of the core aspects of this game, and you get all worked up about pvp in a pvp game. Seriously, find another game. For your sake.


To me, 'watch digits on screen grow bigger' is exactly what Eve is to me. Getting more skills, getting reputation, getting money to buy a ship that performs 0.x% better than the last one. I like getting my calculator and figuring out an optimal strategy, I love complex games, there is a reason why I currently only play Dwarf Fortress besides Eve Online (and some Guild Wars sometimes, I admit, I still need to grind 30 titles before GW2 comes out eh?). I do not like doing the same stupid missions over and over, I like the result, which is a higher digit in my reputation panel and a few more ISK in my balance, which I can spend on improving the digits that are my ship stats. Destruction means smaller digits, and more grind to get them back.

There simply aren't any other games around that I like. I liked games 10 years ago, but today it's all more of the same. Morrowind was nice (I didn't like Oblivion), Portal was nice, and that are about the only non-retro games besides Eve, GW and DF that gave me any enjoyment. Anyone remember Ishar, Amulets&Armor, Terminal Velocity, Crusader, Albion, Populous the Beginning, Dungeon Keeper 1, Warlords Battlecry, Metal Fatigue and I-War? Ah, the good old days. Smile

At leas there is Dwarf Fortress, nothing like using mechanisms and traps to make logic gates. DF Calculator [:lol

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:54:00 - [132]
 

Originally by: Merokh
Seriously, you are now scaring me a little bit. It might just be me, but I'm getting visions of an obese middle-aged man sitting in the basement of his mothers house, smelling of hamsters and other obscure animals, living or dead.

I can tell you that mental image is very far off, no need to be scared, hehe Very Happy
Okay there is a slightly deformed bird that might count as obscure animal, but it's cute and harmless and I definately am not going to get rid of it just because it was unlucky when it was born.

Originally by: Merokh
Ask yourself this question: If I don't like what I'm doing, or what my enviroment is forcing me to do, why should I continue it ?

EvE for me is not "hard work". Hard work for me implies either physical labour or intense mental concentration, neither of which I find in EvE. When I get tired of managing the training of skills or seeing roids fly by every other minute, I go outside and run a lap or 3 around the block, maybe go make a nice sandwich or buy some icecream for my girlfriend just to get my mind of things.

What I'm trying to say is that if you're not enjoying what you are doing or what you feel are forced to do in order to progress, get out of there. Go and do other stuff to refuel your mind and come back when those EVE cravings come back :)

Yarr to all pirates YARRRR!!


I do take a break from Eve from time to time you know, deactivate account and let it train that skill that takes 45 days, I'm also busy with my work and hobby projects so I don't have all the time to play Eve.

I don't like the missiongrinding, but I like the results of the work. I obviously don't like it a lot when other players destroy the fruits of my labor, so to speak. Fortunately that hasn't happened to me recently, but that still doesn't make me understand why other people get so aroused by ruining other player's work, if those players want to be left in peace (which being in highsec and not being in a corp should be plenty of indication for).

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 13:57:00 - [133]
 

Edited by: Ki An on 29/02/2008 13:57:17
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I don't have any corpmates, I play this game all by myself. I guess I'm the typical player that sees Eve as a singleplayer game with a nice integrated chat (and I hardly even use that thing). Well it's nice that all these other players are there so I can buy stuff I don't feel like grinding myself, and sell all my trash to which I don't need. So, other players see lowsec as their playground? Fine, no problem, I'll just stay out of there, and I'll keep steering clear of anyone that tries to force PvP on me, even if that means I'll only run level 2 courrier missions in the middle of nowhere for a while, which is exactly what I'm doing when mining isn't safe enough anymore either.


Ok, fair enough. You play Eve as a single player game. Problem is that most don't, and the game isn't designed like that. It's designed as a multiplayer game. You have to learn to accept that fact, and you have to learn to accept that other people will play with you even if you don't want them to.

This is the point I think you have a hard time understanding. Nobody is required to take your in-game success into account. You have to make sure you protect yourself, or you will lose your toys. That's a fact in this game, and has been a fact since it's inception. If you don't like it, fine, go play another game. I am sorry, but that's the way it works.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

To me, 'watch digits on screen grow bigger' is exactly what Eve is to me. Getting more skills, getting reputation, getting money to buy a ship that performs 0.x% better than the last one. I like getting my calculator and figuring out an optimal strategy, I love complex games, there is a reason why I currently only play Dwarf Fortress besides Eve Online (and some Guild Wars sometimes, I admit, I still need to grind 30 titles before GW2 comes out eh?). I do not like doing the same stupid missions over and over, I like the result, which is a higher digit in my reputation panel and a few more ISK in my balance, which I can spend on improving the digits that are my ship stats. Destruction means smaller digits, and more grind to get them back.



I can't understand this mentality, but I know it's a common one. There is a multitude of games out there for people like you. Eve isn't one of them. Deal with it.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

There simply aren't any other games around that I like. I liked games 10 years ago, but today it's all more of the same. Morrowind was nice (I didn't like Oblivion), Portal was nice, and that are about the only non-retro games besides Eve, GW and DF that gave me any enjoyment. Anyone remember Ishar, Amulets&Armor, Terminal Velocity, Crusader, Albion, Populous the Beginning, Dungeon Keeper 1, Warlords Battlecry, Metal Fatigue and I-War? Ah, the good old days. Smile

At leas there is Dwarf Fortress, nothing like using mechanisms and traps to make logic gates. DF Calculator [:lol


Go play WoW if you like to grind. Play PotBS if you like complexity and missions and optional PvP. Play Guild Wars if you want fair PvP. Play Hello Kitty Online if you like hugs. Play any single player game combined with MSN if you don't want to be bothered with other players but still like to chat. Play LotRO if you like immersive PvE and storyline. Play Eve Online if you like a complex game focused on PvP.



Sekhmet Orion
Mad-Warping-Maniacs
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:01:00 - [134]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I don't have any corpmates, I play this game all by myself.


Well there's a surprise Laughing

EVE is a social game, you are not very social...this might be the conflict you are having with this game.

Now please stop spamming the forums with your myopic vision of EVE. I know you haven't spoken to anyone for several days now, but typing in a forum isn't really the same.

Try some of that fresh air stuff...and have some fun

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:32:00 - [135]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Ok, fair enough. You play Eve as a single player game. Problem is that most don't, and the game isn't designed like that. It's designed as a multiplayer game. You have to learn to accept that fact, and you have to learn to accept that other people will play with you even if you don't want them to.

I don't mind them playing with me, I mind it when they go on stupid pointless griefing expeditions such as canluring newbies and suicide ganking miners. If they suicide gank a freighter full of precious stuff, well I don't like that, but at least it has a point. This Goonswarm terror campaign has not, they just want to hurt other people, and the more they hurt and grief, the better they like it somehow.

Originally by: Ki An
This is the point I think you have a hard time understanding. Nobody is required to take your in-game success into account. You have to make sure you protect yourself, or you will lose your toys. That's a fact in this game, and has been a fact since it's inception. If you don't like it, fine, go play another game. I am sorry, but that's the way it works.

I can't understand this mentality, but I know it's a common one. There is a multitude of games out there for people like you. Eve isn't one of them. Deal with it.

Even though the game does not require people to take other players into account, I'm very surprised that almost noone does it due to conscience and morality issues. I mean, you have a nice simulated world with almost endless possibilities, why turn it into a hell when it can be heaven?

If this game needs anything, it's more people like me. That's why I'm not giving up and I'm not going to quit, even if my fight is a hopeless one and the environment around me eventually forces me to fight it from the inside of a station.

Originally by: Ki An
Go play WoW if you like to grind. Play PotBS if you like complexity and missions and optional PvP. Play Guild Wars if you want fair PvP. Play Hello Kitty Online if you like hugs. Play any single player game combined with MSN if you don't want to be bothered with other players but still like to chat. Play LotRO if you like immersive PvE and storyline. Play Eve Online if you like a complex game focused on PvP.

Like I said, I did play WoW and it's a stupid, boring, predictable game with no character customization and where every achievement is pointless because power creep will always release a more powerful weapon to grind for next week. I can draw out WoW's core game mechanics on a single a4 paper sheet.

Obviously I play Guildwars for the PVE only.

Never heard of PotBS but I'll check it out I guess.

LotR was meh, as are ALL current singleplayer games besides Dwarf Fortress and Portal.

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:34:00 - [136]
 

Originally by: Sekhmet Orion
EVE is an anti-social game, you are not very anti-social...this might be the conflict you are having with this game.


Fixed Wink

Dai Nau
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:36:00 - [137]
 

the amount of fun you're having is inversely proportional to the fun I'm having

what I'm trying to say is, this is awesome

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:39:00 - [138]
 

Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 29/02/2008 14:38:44
Originally by: Dai Nau
the amount of fun you're having is inversely proportional to the fun I'm having

what I'm trying to say is, this is awesome

Please report to your nearest medical facility to remove this specific inverter implant from your brain.

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:39:00 - [139]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I don't mind them playing with me, I mind it when they go on stupid pointless griefing expeditions such as canluring newbies and suicide ganking miners. If they suicide gank a freighter full of precious stuff, well I don't like that, but at least it has a point. This Goonswarm terror campaign has not, they just want to hurt other people, and the more they hurt and grief, the better they like it somehow.


Well, GS's campaign does have a point. It's fun and it's profitable. There's no pointless griefing in Eve as it is a competitive game. If I take your stuff you have less and I have more. Thus, I am one step further ahead of you. It's Eve. Learn to love it.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Even though the game does not require people to take other players into account, I'm very surprised that almost noone does it due to conscience and morality issues. I mean, you have a nice simulated world with almost endless possibilities, why turn it into a hell when it can be heaven?


Heaven and hell? Seriously, why even drag up such a subjective thing? Heaven to me isn't sitting around watching numbers grow on a screen. In fact, heaven to me has nothing to do with Eve. However, my Eve utopia would be a universe where people had a good laugh while they slaughtered each other.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

If this game needs anything, it's more people like me. That's why I'm not giving up and I'm not going to quit, even if my fight is a hopeless one and the environment around me eventually forces me to fight it from the inside of a station.


I would say that this game is in dire need of ridding itself of players like you. This is nothing personal between you and me. I just think you are trying to destroy something I love, and not as in destroying my virtual spaceship either. If you did that I'd give you mad props and then pod you.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Like I said, I did play WoW and it's a stupid, boring, predictable game with no character customization and where every achievement is pointless because power creep will always release a more powerful weapon to grind for next week. I can draw out WoW's core game mechanics on a single a4 paper sheet.

Obviously I play Guildwars for the PVE only.

Never heard of PotBS but I'll check it out I guess.

LotR was meh, as are ALL current singleplayer games besides Dwarf Fortress and Portal.


If you're going to play PotBS (Pirates of the Burning Sea), stay off the forums pls.

Dai Nau
Mothership Connection Inc.
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:39:00 - [140]
 

you're dumb

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:49:00 - [141]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Well, GS's campaign does have a point. It's fun and it's profitable. There's no pointless griefing in Eve as it is a competitive game. If I take your stuff you have less and I have more. Thus, I am one step further ahead of you. It's Eve. Learn to love it.

Explain what the point is of having more than others. Also, you can get more without making another player have less. Of course this method is far superior to the apparant parasiting you suggest.

Originally by: Ki An
Heaven and hell? Seriously, why even drag up such a subjective thing? Heaven to me isn't sitting around watching numbers grow on a screen. In fact, heaven to me has nothing to do with Eve. However, my Eve utopia would be a universe where people had a good laugh while they slaughtered each other.

Try test server? Otherwise lowsec and 0.0? Why be upset when people *gasp* DONT want to PvP in HIGHSEC?

Originally by: Ki An
I would say that this game is in dire need of ridding itself of players like you. This is nothing personal between you and me. I just think you are trying to destroy something I love, and not as in destroying my virtual spaceship either. If you did that I'd give you mad props and then pod you.

See above, how am I destroying anything of you when you have Lowsec and 0.0? I'm not forcing anything on you or anyone else, unlike me, some people force their antisocial, harmful actions on others.

Originally by: Ki An
If you're going to play PotBS (Pirates of the Burning Sea), stay off the forums pls.

Even if I'd go play that I'll always be here to 'preach' and work towards a better world.

Stuart Price
Caldari
FLA5HY RED
The Defenders of Pen Island
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:49:00 - [142]
 

And I thought this was a pvp game.

Dr Paithos
Minmatar
Republic Deep Space Institute
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:55:00 - [143]
 

indeed, let us all join hands and build a better world on the internet

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:56:00 - [144]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Explain what the point is of having more than others. Also, you can get more without making another player have less. Of course this method is far superior to the apparant parasiting you suggest.


Huh? It's the point of the game? As in 'competitive'? Why do you want to finish first in that knitting tournament or whatever the hell it is you do? Why did Muhammed Ali get happy when he beat George Forman? Why do you smile when your friend winds up on your hotel-street in Monopoly? Answer: It's fun to win.

And, of course there might be more efficient ways of gaining income than what GS is doing, but they might not think its as much fun. I mean, do you go around telling people who run missions that they should do trades instead because you can make more money? Its about fun.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Try test server? Otherwise lowsec and 0.0? Why be upset when people *gasp* DONT want to PvP in HIGHSEC?


Why put HIGHSEC in all caps? Highsec doesn't mean COMPLETESEC or NORISK. It's just harder to kill people there. It's still very much possible though, as it should be. If you don't like pvp, why don't YOU try the test server?

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

See above, how am I destroying anything of you when you have Lowsec and 0.0? I'm not forcing anything on you or anyone else, unlike me, some people force their antisocial, harmful actions on others.


Your posts here on the forums might actually spurr other whiny carebears into making CCP turn this game even more towards main stream grind MMO's than they've already done. Therefore I will do my utmost to crush you here and in game until you quit the game that I love and stop trying to change it to suit YOU.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Even if I'd go play that I'll always be here to 'preach' and work towards a better world.


Preach away. I doubt anyone listens, and if they do, we'll just grief them out of the game.

Jade Chicken
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:06:00 - [145]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Why be upset when people *gasp* DONT want to PvP in HIGHSEC?


Why be upset when people *gasp* DO want to PvP in HIGHSEC?

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:12:00 - [146]
 

Originally by: Ki An
Huh? It's the point of the game? As in 'competitive'? Why do you want to finish first in that knitting tournament or whatever the hell it is you do? Why did Muhammed Ali get happy when he beat George Forman? Why do you smile when your friend winds up on your hotel-street in Monopoly? Answer: It's fun to win.

I don't think it is fun to win, what is the point of winning? Competition is merely a test to determine the optimal strategy, and a win is only an indicator. Once the optimal strategy is known, it does not matter who won, as the knowledge is far more important than that and is now free to be shared with everyone. The trick is to determine the optimal strategy with the least amount of resources. PvP is not very efficient in doing so, due to the enormous resource costs.

I think it's cool to have huge fleets flying around that do not even engage in combat. You might not see why they are of any use then, but I do.

Originally by: Ki An
And, of course there might be more efficient ways of gaining income than what GS is doing, but they might not think its as much fun. I mean, do you go around telling people who run missions that they should do trades instead because you can make more money? Its about fun.

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...

Originally by: Ki An
Why put HIGHSEC in all caps? Highsec doesn't mean COMPLETESEC or NORISK. It's just harder to kill people there. It's still very much possible though, as it should be. If you don't like pvp, why don't YOU try the test server?

And like I said for 5 pages now, there is no significant consequence to criminal behaviour in highsec, and that should be fixed, as the criminals now just get away with it and hardly suffer any risk, while their influence is extremely diruptive and has a large negative impact on their fellow player's game experience.

Originally by: Ki An
Your posts here on the forums might actually spurr other whiny carebears into making CCP turn this game even more towards main stream grind MMO's than they've already done. Therefore I will do my utmost to crush you here and in game until you quit the game that I love and stop trying to change it to suit YOU.

Like I said already, I do not think the current and possible future scale of highsec mass murdering was intended when these game mechnics were designed.

Originally by: Ki An
Preach away. I doubt anyone listens, and if they do, we'll just grief them out of the game.

Do you hear what you say? You want to bully people into quitting the game. What does that make you? Are you sick or something?

Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:14:00 - [147]
 

Originally by: Jade Chicken
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Why be upset when people *gasp* DONT want to PvP in HIGHSEC?


Why be upset when people *gasp* DO want to PvP in HIGHSEC?


Because it's HIGHSEC, not LOWSEC or 0.0, where there is plenty of space for PvPers.

Highsec is supposed to be SAFER and Concord is supposed to provide CONSEQUENCES and currently neither is the case.

Jade Chicken
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:17:00 - [148]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
Highsec is supposed to be SAFER and Concord is supposed to provide CONSEQUENCES and currently neither is the case.


Highsec IS SAFER and CONCORD DOES provide CONSEQUENCES.

Here's a little story I've compiled about someone who needs some perscription medication:

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I've been bullied throughout my entire youth, beaten up, my stuff stolen and destroyed, spit on and eggs thrown at me.
That's why I never return fire even if I lose another ship to it. Hurting other people is immoral.
As for why it is immoral, it's because there is a REAL person on the other end, someone that invested REAL time and REAL effort to get money to purchase the ship and fittings.
I don't have any corpmates, I play this game all by myself. I guess I'm the typical player that sees Eve as a singleplayer game
Eve isn't just a game, it requires hard work, which isn't fun to do all the time.


Omarvelous
Destry's Lounge
Important Internet Spaceship League
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:19:00 - [149]
 

Edited by: Omarvelous on 29/02/2008 15:21:14


I posted a couple pages back on how you can deal with these so called griefing tactics. Your response was those tactics should only have to be used in low/null sec. So in other words, you should be able to mine in peace worry free in high sec.

You're getting a strong reaction from people because you are proposing to make this game safer - when a major reason to why people are drawn to this game is the inherent danger. You are asking for the game to change to YOUR desires at the expense of other people. People have WHINED like you before and it lead to changes - no small wonder they're going to flame you stupid for potentially changing this game to carebear land.

I'm done arguing with you, you're either one of the better troll posters I've seen in a while (most people would have given up by now I think you're enjoying this Wink)), or you completely missed the point of this game by trying to play a solo pacifist. If CCP were to listen to your worthless diatribe on how things should be the game would be ruined for a lot of people.

/tinfoilhat OP has been hired by enemies of Goons to draw them away from 0.0 for 'pointless' grief podding - spread the word! Laughing

Ki An
Gallente
The Really Awesome Players
Posted - 2008.02.29 15:21:00 - [150]
 

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I don't think it is fun to win, what is the point of winning? Competition is merely a test to determine the optimal strategy, and a win is only an indicator. Once the optimal strategy is known, it does not matter who won, as the knowledge is far more important than that and is now free to be shared with everyone. The trick is to determine the optimal strategy with the least amount of resources. PvP is not very efficient in doing so, due to the enormous resource costs.


Ok... you are kinda strange, and I cannot fathom why you are playing games at all, let alone designing them. Could you perhaps tell me about a game that you've designed? I'd love to see how you apply this philosophy to your own work.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

I think it's cool to have huge fleets flying around that do not even engage in combat. You might not see why they are of any use then, but I do.


You are right. To me a combat ship is a tool designed for shooting other ships. To take a RL analogy, you might think military parades are cool, but I still see military as people payed to kill people.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Of course, but how could someone else's suffering be fun? I'd say that people that enjoy that should be locked away in a mental institution for starters...


I can totally see how someone else getting angry is fun. It's a corner stone of humor since the dark ages. Suffering though is another thing altogether, but you can't honestly say that anyone truly suffers if they get killed in a video game? If they do they are the ones who should be locked up.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

And like I said for 5 pages now, there is no significant consequence to criminal behaviour in highsec, and that should be fixed, as the criminals now just get away with it and hardly suffer any risk, while their influence is extremely diruptive and has a large negative impact on their fellow player's game experience.


And as people have been telling you for 5 pages now, there are significant consequences. You just think they should be even harsher, because you don't like for people to be able to kill your pixels. You are biased in your thinking, as is everyone else, including me. However, I have the game designers on my side on this. You are wrong, and I am right.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Like I said already, I do not think the current and possible future scale of highsec mass murdering was intended when these game mechnics were designed.


Intended and endorsed. Hardly murder though, as noone is getting killed.

Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah

Do you hear what you say? You want to bully people into quitting the game. What does that make you? Are you sick or something?


Yes, I want to bully you into quitting the game, and no I am not sick. I am just very protective of things that I find fun. You are trying to get Eve changed in a way that would make it un-fun for me, so I will do whatever I can to stop you, including griefing the hell out of you and your ilk. As I said, nothing personal.


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