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Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.26 15:27:00 - [1]
 

Following on from the recent revelations to emerge from CONCORD, I hereby echo the sentiments expressed today by Lord Qumar.

Should CONCORD's Inner Circle be shown to have exceeded their authority, it will be dark day for us all.

It would be clear that CONCORD is no longer fit for purpose and needs greater oversight.

Additionally, questions need to be asked regarding the progress with their investigation into the assassination of Emperor Doriam II, may he rest in peace. Given the Inner Circle's apparent disregard for proper protocol, one has to wonder just how much they know but aren't releasing to the Imperial authorities.

I call upon them to make a full and frank statement regarding their part of the investigation, and to hand over all of the evidence which they have gathered to the Amarrian security services.

Tiberius Wolff
Amarr
Posted - 2008.02.26 17:26:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
...I hereby echo the sentiments expressed today by Lord Qumar.



It is amazing how much PIE echoes the Amarr authorities, but cannot seem to come up with a unique thought or idea of their own... Really Rodj, you don't need to even announce this stuff anymore, we already know what your position will be. Rolling Eyes

Originally by: Rodj Blake

Additionally, questions need to be asked regarding the progress with their investigation into the assassination of Emperor Doriam II, may he rest in peace. Given the Inner Circle's apparent disregard for proper protocol, one has to wonder just how much they know but aren't releasing to the Imperial authorities.

I call upon them to make a full and frank statement regarding their part of the investigation, and to hand over all of the evidence which they have gathered to the Amarrian security services.


It is a sad day indeed when the great and glorious Amarr Empire must rely on other entities for their information. Surely God would not allow such ineptitude among his Chosen!

Gaven Lok'ri
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.26 19:05:00 - [3]
 

If you actually read everything being posted before you opened your mouth, you would notice that while Admiral Blake waited until Imperial officials had spoken to speak his piece, as is proper, his request is quite different than the public statement of Lord Qumar.

I would add to Admiral Blake's statement that I personally find this "leak" about the Emperor investigation to be even more incredibly suspicious than it was years ago.

If CONCORD wants to exceed its authority given by the empires, then it will soon become a great threat to all of civilized space.

Kyoko Sakoda
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.02.26 19:17:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
If CONCORD wants to exceed its authority given by the empires, then it will soon become a great threat to all of civilized space.


So now you're seeing it my way. Funny.

Vlad Cetes
Caldari
H A V O C
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2008.02.26 19:53:00 - [5]
 

If "Lord" Qumar has problem with the Inner Circle, he should have them terminated with extreme prejuidice. Death solves all problems, no man, no problem.

William Darkk
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.02.26 23:44:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Vlad Cetes
If "Lord" Qumar has problem with the Inner Circle, he should have them terminated with extreme prejuidice. Death solves all problems, no man, no problem.


We don't really know the extent of CONCORD's ship-disabling capabilities. It could be that even navy vessels aren't immune to them.

I posit that what CONCORD actually does when they attack is different than what they wish people to believe happens when they attack.

When CONCORD attacks, they fire weapons like everyone else. I hypothesize this is actually a light show. While the weapons do some damage, they don't do nearly as much as your indicators tell you.

What CONCORD actually has is some manner of tap into your capsule. When they attack, they simply open the tap, send a signal that informs you your ship is disabled when it is not, and self-destruct the ship.

You can't disable this or even detect it because it's built into the capsules we all use. Everyone who buys a capsule or builds one based on plans from a legitimate source is reproducing the tap device.

Obviously one could avoid this by using bridge-crewed ships, but the drastic efficiency loss might still give CONCORD the edge.

The question then is if these systems are in naval officer capsules. If they are, the Amarr Empire literally cannot bring CONCORD to heel.

Of course, this theory could be incorrect. If multiple ships escaped from CONCORD attack in highsec then that would be conclusive disproof.

This theory also explains why CONCORD ships in lowsec may be defeated - they don't have the codes. CONCORD might not allow them to be used in unsecured systems, or they may be sent from a non-ship facility that is not present in those systems.

Aria Jenneth
Caldari
Kumiho's Smile
Posted - 2008.02.27 01:29:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 27/02/2008 01:30:29
Now that's an interesting notion, Mr. Darkk. I've long held a similar theory involving stationary hisec facilities of some variety, but the notion of a "light show" by their warships hadn't occurred to me.

I do see a couple of problems with this. One is that some ships do, as I understand it, hold out longer than others, though all fold eventually. Another is that it seems probable that, if it were a control mechanism so simple as a code, CONCORD personnel under attack in, for instance, deep nullsec would be able to send an FTL signal back home to request a code broadcast through their ships' comms arrays, and the result would be a downed capsuleer ship.

It's a good theory, but it needs work. There has to be some better reason CONCORD can't use this system outside of hisec, and the only obvious reason I can think of is that the facilities necessary are only available in high-security space.

Somewhat paradoxically, the unprotected areas include a number of CONCORD stations. CONCORD presence alone does not hisec make, evidently.

William Darkk
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
Posted - 2008.02.27 02:59:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Aria Jenneth
Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 27/02/2008 01:30:29
Now that's an interesting notion, Mr. Darkk. I've long held a similar theory involving stationary hisec facilities of some variety, but the notion of a "light show" by their warships hadn't occurred to me.

I do see a couple of problems with this. One is that some ships do, as I understand it, hold out longer than others, though all fold eventually. Another is that it seems probable that, if it were a control mechanism so simple as a code, CONCORD personnel under attack in, for instance, deep nullsec would be able to send an FTL signal back home to request a code broadcast through their ships' comms arrays, and the result would be a downed capsuleer ship.

It's a good theory, but it needs work. There has to be some better reason CONCORD can't use this system outside of hisec, and the only obvious reason I can think of is that the facilities necessary are only available in high-security space.

Somewhat paradoxically, the unprotected areas include a number of CONCORD stations. CONCORD presence alone does not hisec make, evidently.


To expand, my personal theory is that it's station based, and that the true differentiation between highsec and lowsec is the safety of the codes.

CONCORD likes its secrecy. Imagine what would happen if someone published a list of "blow up ships" codes on galnet. So highsec contains places where the Inner Circle feel that they can protect the secret and the codes.

Furthermore, I doubt most of CONCORD pilots realize that the code exists. They can't ask for it if they don't know it's there. See how they withhold information from their subordinates already.

The fact that some ships take longer than others to blow up isn't so surprising. People would get really, really suspicious.

The guns on the ships are actually there, they actually fire, and they actually hurt. It's just that there's someone with a finger on the button watching and pressing the "start blowing up" button as soon as the ships get a few hits in.

I've heard tales that some people have fought the exact same CONCORD ships that protect highsec in lowsec, and beat them handily.

Also, the many lousy pirates that hide in hidden locations throughout New Eden? If they're not using capsules, CONCORD would have to kill them in a fair fight, and someone might notice that they're struggling to beat something much weaker than things they beat handily. Even if nobody's around to see it, I doubt the Inner Circle wants the rank and file to know what's up.

Really, all the "we hate CONCORD" should be directed at the Inner Circle. The men and women who patrol the spacelanes are not grand conspirators or any more aware of the conspiracy than anyone else.

As to why CONCORD/Inner Circle hasn't already taken over? Planets and stations. CONCORD can't project force onto a planet. I imagine that many important worlds have ground-to-space weapons that could put a fair hurting on anything. No capsules to hack there either. Stations have similar properties, but aren't quite as defensible. Sure CONCORD could set asteroids drifting towards a planet (at a monumental expenditure of resources), but they wouldn't actually get the planet when they were done.

Tiberius Wolff
Amarr
Posted - 2008.02.27 15:29:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri
If you actually read everything being posted before you opened your mouth, you would notice that while Admiral Blake waited until Imperial officials had spoken to speak his piece, as is proper, his request is quite different than the public statement of Lord Qumar.

I would add to Admiral Blake's statement that I personally find this "leak" about the Emperor investigation to be even more incredibly suspicious than it was years ago.

If CONCORD wants to exceed its authority given by the empires, then it will soon become a great threat to all of civilized space.


Ah, I see, so when he says he is 'echoing' Lord Qumar's sentiments he is actually requesting something quite different?

Roy Gordon
Caldari
Caldari Advanced Response Division
Power Of 3
Posted - 2008.02.27 16:05:00 - [10]
 

I just donít understand all the fuss about this.
Lets look at this objectively.
CONCORD sent ships into the Drone regions before opening them up to the rest of the Galactic community.
Big deal!
I for one am grateful that CONCORD took the risk of sending ships to an UNKNOWN AND POTENTIALLY LETHAL area of space before letting the Galactic horde into the region. Is it not CONCORDís job to protect us from harm? Did not them sending ships there to find out what was there not fulfil this purpose?
The only thing out of all this that concerns me is the disturbing hints that it may be CONCORD itself who were responsible for the rogue drone problem. In that case then I agree action should be taken against them. But to moan about them sending ships to the Drone Regions before letting the rest of us go there is just plain petty.

Rodj Blake
Amarr
PIE Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.27 16:11:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Tiberius Wolff

Ah, I see, so when he says he is 'echoing' Lord Qumar's sentiments he is actually requesting something quite different?


Perhaps you should read and take the statement at face value rather than fruitlessly examining it for spin and subterfuge.

Tiberius Wolff
Amarr
Posted - 2008.02.27 16:20:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Tiberius Wolff

Ah, I see, so when he says he is 'echoing' Lord Qumar's sentiments he is actually requesting something quite different?


Perhaps you should read and take the statement at face value rather than fruitlessly examining it for spin and subterfuge.


I do not know what spin or subterfuge you are talking about. I merely pointed out that it is typical for PIE to echo official statements by Amarr officials. Then I got blasted for not reading your post and told that you are not echoing the officials. Now you are telling me that I'm looking for subterfuge and spin?? ugh


Batlacitiachilan
The Knights Trevor
Posted - 2008.02.28 23:06:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Roy Gordon
I just donít understand all the fuss about this.
Lets look at this objectively.
CONCORD sent ships into the Drone regions before opening them up to the rest of the Galactic community.
Big deal!
I for one am grateful that CONCORD took the risk of sending ships to an UNKNOWN AND POTENTIALLY LETHAL area of space before letting the Galactic horde into the region. Is it not CONCORDís job to protect us from harm? Did not them sending ships there to find out what was there not fulfil this purpose?
The only thing out of all this that concerns me is the disturbing hints that it may be CONCORD itself who were responsible for the rogue drone problem. In that case then I agree action should be taken against them. But to moan about them sending ships to the Drone Regions before letting the rest of us go there is just plain petty.



CONCORD's job is not to keep us safe, it's to keep the peace in empire space. They are a policing force ONLY. They were given the job of keeping the gates to the drone regions sealed. When they failed at that, albeit it seems through no fault of their own, they should have stepped forward, informed the Empires and the Alliances of this new threat, and let the Navies take over. Instead, they decided to step outside their bounds and launch a major military operation using an advanced fleet developed in secret from those who they are supposedly responsible to (though I shouldn't be too surprised that a Caldari doesn't see this as a major transgression). This is not behavior that is appropriate for a policing force, it is behavior appropriate for a navy building up for a major offensive of the type that CONCORD was supposedly created to help avoid. Furthermore, by not informing anyone of what had happened, they severely compromised the security of the entire region, and then had the unmitigated gall to scratch their heads with the rest of us and wonder why we seemed to be seeing more rogue drones all of a sudden.
Furthermore, how do they protect us by not releasing reports of Capsuleers being abducted by what appear to be rogue drone forces? What answers did their great military offensive give concerning the nature of the drones and whatever activated the stargates? They don't know what activated the stargates, they don't know how it was done, they don't know what came through it, they don't know what the drones are planning, they don't know how to defend against them, and they can't even construct a reasonable timeline as to when all of this occured. If they'd been able to produce some results I might be more forgiving, but they haven't. All that they've done is increased the bodycount, and wasted ships and men that were supposed to be keeping empire space safe from threats such as rogues.

Natalcya Katla
Naqam
Posted - 2008.02.28 23:35:00 - [14]
 

I'm not going to waste time involving myself in the discussion of all these silly conspiracy theories.

Instead I will wish the Inner Circle and any DED personnel involved in the investigation good luck in finding the source of the recent information leak and plugging it permanently.

I'll not be surprised if it turns out that errant Assembly members like Lord Qumar are involved, somehow.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2008.02.29 03:27:00 - [15]
 

This idea about a "blow up" code signal is good, but the thing is I've seen Federal Navy ships and gate defence sentry guns tear apart criminal ships just as fast, if not faster than CONCORD. This effect appears to be mysteriously absent in low security space, even though the guns have the same IFF signature. I would chalk this down to there simply being less of them in low-sec space, but that doesn't follow - logically, the "low-security" inherent in low-security space would be an incentive to anchor MORE guns around stargates and stations. There are eight guns present around the Emperor Family Academy in Amarr, for instance - I am intimately familiar with their position. Another station I am intimately familiar with is the Perkone Factory in Uemon - which has only two guns, despite the system being far more dangerous.

This is highly illogical, and I cannot imagine that there would be LESS guns in a LESS secure system without very good reason.

Myyona
Minmatar
Ataraxia Pharmacies
Posted - 2008.02.29 10:35:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Andreus Ixiris
This idea about a "blow up" code signal is good, but the thing is I've seen Federal Navy ships and gate defence sentry guns tear apart criminal ships just as fast, if not faster than CONCORD. This effect appears to be mysteriously absent in low security space, even though the guns have the same IFF signature. I would chalk this down to there simply being less of them in low-sec space, but that doesn't follow - logically, the "low-security" inherent in low-security space would be an incentive to anchor MORE guns around stargates and stations. There are eight guns present around the Emperor Family Academy in Amarr, for instance - I am intimately familiar with their position. Another station I am intimately familiar with is the Perkone Factory in Uemon - which has only two guns, despite the system being far more dangerous.

This is highly illogical, and I cannot imagine that there would be LESS guns in a LESS secure system without very good reason.


I think you got the things mixed around.

The systems have gotten the low security rating BECAUSE there are little to none CONCORD presence, and the sentry guns in those systems are sparse and of poor quality.

It is not like the security rating dictates the CONCORD response or the number of sentry guns. That would be... weird.

Andreus Ixiris
Gallente
Mixed Metaphor
Posted - 2008.02.29 10:55:00 - [17]
 

In that case, there would seem to be a fairly easy solution - while one cannot easily assign more CONCORD ships to an area, you could put up more guns fairly easily. Anchoring guns is easy, I've done it myself.

Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
Posted - 2008.02.29 14:34:00 - [18]
 

I too sign the words of Lord Blake when this discussion started. All the rest here debated matters little.

Drachtul Tun'Dull
Posted - 2008.03.04 05:47:00 - [19]
 

I think that it is inevitable that any institution, any bureaucracy will eventually overstep its bounds. Their number one priority is always self-preservation, so that there will always be a tomorrow for them. I speak not just in terms of CONCORD, but any other organization, Empires to small charitable groups. Any time someone draws a paycheck, this will happen, because they will want to draw a paycheck tomorrow, as well.

I imagine that whatever the CONCORD investigation discovered is politically sensitive-- it is about the assassination of the Amarr Emperor. CONCORD releases politically sensitive information only so far as it sees fit. If it implicates another government, they will drag their feet for as long as possible. If it implicates someone within the ranks of CONCORD, it may never be released. Either one could spell the end of CONCORD's hold over the core worlds. And the longer they withhold information, the worse it looks for them.

Valmir Elbereth
Gallente
Malevolent Emo Herders
Posted - 2008.03.05 17:24:00 - [20]
 

Regarding the leaked CONCORD report I must address something that I believe many in the assembly and the general public have somehow overlooked. The report stated that there were drones that actually had capability of AI and took control of themselves, thus reaking havoc and spilling blood. Those teams that CONCORD sent, some being the most capable and talented were at a loss against this mysterious threat.

Regardless if the Amarr continue their blasting of other organizations or if the major power point fingers a squabble over he said she said antics, the undeniable truth is that the outer limits of Jovian space is indeed a threat. Proof of this is not only the report but the doomed exporation by the Gallente Federation. Something is indeed stirring. If we do not soon examine this threat methodically, find a way to counter it and for once look past our petty diversities and isues, we may find ourselves looking at another Dark Age or even worse, the potential extinction of Humanity in EVE. If our current technologies and some of the most advanced technology of the Gallente's can be shutdown and tampered in the case of one of the recon pilots in the report, imagine if it happened to our great fleets when the drones turn hostile and flood through the unsecured gates. Take note. Change is upon the galaxy.




Sepherim
Amarr
Ordo Quaesitoris
Ordo Magna
Posted - 2008.03.08 16:15:00 - [21]
 

Mr Elbereth, you may indeed be right. But how CONCORD handled the issue isn't the correct path, and that is what we are discussing here. CONCORD is gathering quite a number of extreme measures, complicated ones, dangerous ones... it may be starting to exceed their place by too far.

It should be placed back where it belongs.


 

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