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Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.03.09 17:59:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Spenz
...


1. Primarying the ECM ships does not reduce the effecet of getting jammed less which is a flat increase in DPS and reduction in opponents effectiveness in those areas. Primarying an ECM ship which is out of range does nothing, and the EOS enables ECM ships to do just that. And the rest of the e-warfare to get farther out to battleship range and so be effective

2. Yea, you cant fit a full load of long range turrets, gang mods and a dual rep tank, whatever will you do with yourself!!!

3. The damnation does have an amasing buffer tank. An amasing buffer tank does little for a ship except mean it gets killed last. It gets killed last because no one shoots at it. No one shoots at it because it does 220 dps.

4. No, you are flat out wrong. The increase from a damnation from a proph is 0 slots, 1 bonus and t2 resists. Claymore is 1 slot, 0 bonuses, and t2 resists. Difference for a vulture, 1 slot, 0 bonuses, and t2 resists. Difference to an Eos is 1 slot, 0 bonuses, and t2 resists.

5. I said bubbles make tackling gang mods less important. It does. You do not need to be in a static gate camp to use bubbles, you simply have to have a dictor or hictor with you. The ability to use them makes the increases from the skirmish links less effective than they would be otherwise

6. The market is not everything. And you do not understand the market.

There are two primary components of the market. One is demand, and we just talked about how demand is often skewed based on the players not knowing what is optimal.

But the second is supply, and supply depends on a lot of things, like the number of t2 BPO holders[currently unknown], and the number of EOS's produced before the invention change that were unsold[as well as component cost], the number of EOSs that were put on the market after the EOS change when they were being produced and sold in higher numbers...

I cant get online now, so tell me just what the price differences are?

But really, i am unable

No21
Posted - 2008.03.09 20:31:00 - [62]
 

Edited by: No21 on 09/03/2008 20:33:58
Right....time to pwn this thread.

1. CCP sucks and will do until they fix it.

2. ECM isn't strictly Caldari.

3. Few ppl seem to know and understand it.

4. The change to the Eos made it deviate from other Gallente ships.

5. Look at it and other ships alike.

6. I win.

****, i forgot:

7. The Information Warfare Link doesn't affect all of the EW, specially not the one part of Gallente.

Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
Posted - 2008.03.10 00:39:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Grytok on 10/03/2008 00:42:39
Eos is pretty much fine as it is now. it has'nt to deal lots of damage. Thats what the Astarte is for.
An Eos is a welcome addition in a Sniper-BS-Fleet, as it boosts your EW-ships and also your battleships sensor-strength, making it damn hard to jam them.
A Rook/Falcon will have 249km optimal Range for the ECM with an Eos + Gang-Links, which makes it pretty untouchable. ECM-Strength will be up to 15 for racial jammers.

Lachesis/Arazu will have +15% more strength on their Damps aswell as 23% more optimal Range. Damping at over 50km optimal with up to 60% strength.

Thats pretty effective, don't you think?

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.03.10 01:18:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: No21
2. ECM isn't strictly Caldari.


100% wrong. This used to be true, before ECM was massively nerfed on all non-Caldari ships. Now, on anything but the specialized Caldari ECM ships (Griffin, Kitsune, Blackbird, Rook, Falcon, Scorpion, Widow), it's a waste of a mid slot.

No21
Posted - 2008.03.10 05:25:00 - [65]
 

Hi Merin.

The ECM Burst is and it belongs to Gallente. Due to the RSD Scan Resolution dampening effect. There to supplement it and i bet you can figure out on what ships it most prominently fits. Thereby seeing the deviation.

To Grytok:

Very nice, now if only i could imply that on Gallente,s EW. You would think that the EW race would get their EW ****. But clearly not, as a Info Link doesn't affect a certain module. Why so? I can only guess that CCP doesn't like it at this time and rather reduce lag.

The optimal increase on the RDS,s is something, but can be problematic if ur trying to use it and warp disrupting.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.03.10 06:43:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 10/03/2008 06:43:06
The problem is ECM bursts are the worst ewar type, and almost completely useless. For Gallente, they're even more useless than for the other races. Gallente tactics focus on point-blank damage, which means if you set off an ECM burst that actually hits the target, you're also going to jam your own gang.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.03.10 06:55:00 - [67]
 

But your own gang will lock back fast. The damped opponents will not ;)

But really, ECM bursts are specialty items like smartbombs, not every day occurances.

Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
Posted - 2008.03.10 07:09:00 - [68]
 

Well, assuming you have insta-locking interceptors and/or interdictor bubbles to keep them from warping, I guess it might work. But now you're getting into such a narrow situation that balancing the Eos for it is just silly. Just compare the complicated scenario you have to work out to make them useful to what you have to do to make the other ewar useful:

ECM couldn't possibly be simpler. No other ships/modules required, just pick a target, remove it from the fight.

Damps require no other ships/modules, just pick a target and cut its lock range to nothing.

Tracking disruptors require no other ships/modules, just pick a target and kill its tracking and/or range.

Webs require no other ships/modules, just pick a target and it stops moving.

Target painters require no other ships/modules, just pick a target and it starts taking more damage.


Notice a common theme here? The racial ewar specializations are all things you can use in every fight, and are appropriate to balance around. ECM bursts just aren't.

Grytok
KL0NKRIEGER
Posted - 2008.03.10 09:06:00 - [69]
 

It's not as if theres Fleets only flying Gallente ships, if they get an Eos into the gang.

You'll have a Vulture in Wing Command for the shield tanking battleships, a Damnation as Wing Command for the armor tanking ones, a Claymore for the tacklers and an Eos for the EWar-Wing.

The Eos is fine.

No21
Posted - 2008.03.10 11:32:00 - [70]
 

If you had gone thru some Gallente ships, then you would have noticed something distinct. That the Domi, Ishtar and Myrmidon got 5 Mids. The Domi has been in the game for some time. So, whats my point? Well, the droneis are frail and needs to be protected and watched. The ECM Burst is a tool that can offer you that protection by breaking their lock and making sure that he won't target them for a good while with the help from a Lachesis/Keres etc. Not to mention that it will protect you and give you a means of evasion.

Now, the Eos doesn't have that capability, yet it has a large drone bay. Or that offensive/defensive capability. So no, it isn't fine. Unless you think it's ok to restrict it's capabilities in small scale engagements. Where other Fleet Command Ships can make use of their Gang mods and what they affect. Unless you decide to drop one of the usual 4 mods. Which in it self isn't a thing most would like to do. Not to mention the cap consupmtion.......

Some don't understand what drastic actions/restrictions CCP has taken in order to reduce lag, at the expense of combat effectivness. And by that even the feasibility to use em. The EW race isn't so EW to me when CCP obviously restricts and nerfs it.

rgreat
Gallente
OEG
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2008.03.11 02:21:00 - [71]
 

Edited by: rgreat on 11/03/2008 02:24:36
Current Eos is pretty uselles.
Astarte and other command ships are better in all aspects.

I still have 2 Eos'es in hangars, but i don't fly them anymore.

..and information warfare links always were uselles.
What are they for? Caldary recons can jam pretty good by themselfs.
And it is not like Eos can double EW power.

In fleet i'd prefer Damnation, in roaming gang - Claymore.
And at least Vulture is good sniper boat.

Eos have no role now.

FinrodFelagund
Posted - 2008.03.11 12:07:00 - [72]
 

I would rather see all the command ships get 3% bonus to all command modules and have the cap line of gangmods and the sensor kind of gangmods added as well as some reshuffling.


scram/web range goes from skirmish to "ewar" gang mods
Skirmish mod gets +15% agility (with implant) gangmod
sensor integrity gang mod goes to "sensor" gangmod

Sensor integrity (+to sensor strength+25-40% assuming implant)
Sensor precision (+to scan resolution +25%)
Sensor extension (+to lock range, +40%)
For the sensor gangmods.

Cap storage (+25% to capacitor capacity assuming implant)
Cap sustainability (-15-25% to cap recharge time)
Cap fluidity (+10-25% energy transefered for energy transfer modules)

Cap ones are potentially way overpowered.
Sensor ones will add a new dynamic and be very very interesting for fleet battles, as most battleships will be able to take 1 less sensor booster.

Effei Gloom
Minmatar
Lazy T2 Holdings
Posted - 2008.03.12 01:42:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Effei Gloom on 13/03/2008 08:41:10

Would be nice to know if commandships that can fitt 3 warefare links will be revisited with factional warefare to boost small gangs better?

It wouldn't hurt teamplay and make fights more interesting instead of just doing the most damage.

At moment they don't succeed their damaging-brothers. How about to make them as usefull as they are?


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