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Jessica Molla
Posted - 2008.02.24 18:53:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Jessica Molla on 24/02/2008 18:55:59
Edited by: Jessica Molla on 24/02/2008 18:54:30
This change would make Eos useful in its primary role- fleet warfare. The other fleet command ships do have useful bonuses for their fleets- armor, shields and speed. But what are information warfare links good for? Only for E-war ships...

Yes you can say that Eos has much more damage than other FCS but it also has the worst tank...

So what i was thinking was to change info gang mods into damage gang mods...this would perfectly go along with gallente philosophy and would make Eos a ship to fly(at last)

the over all bonus would be 2% increase of damage of turrets and missiles per level

1st gang mod- reduction in RoF for turrets and lounchers
2nd gang mod- increase of optimal range of turrets and flying time of missiles
3rd gang mod- increase of tracking speed of turrets and reduction of explosion velocity of missiles

well what do you think?

Alex Shurk
Posted - 2008.02.24 18:59:00 - [2]
 

hahahahahahahah
hahahaha
ahaha
ahah
hah.

No.

Frances Ducoir
Gallente
Koshaku
Dark Syndicate.
Posted - 2008.02.24 20:01:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 24/02/2008 20:05:54
yes please.

gallente = offensive & damage race... so why do we have a freaking ewar bonus on our command ship? shouldnt caldari have this?

btw i think this is overpowered... but... gimmegimmegimme... gallente got nerfed too far lately^^

Zanquis
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.02.24 21:27:00 - [4]
 

I think you underestimate the usefulness of these links in todays Fleet warfare. In fact I would argue your links are MORE useful overall then the Siege or Armor links since in fleet battles where such gang links are very useful, the only gang link which means anything for siege and armor are the resistance ones. The others are pretty pointless since an active tank does jack in large fleet battles.

Information warfare on the other hand give 3 different bonus which make a big difference in a good fleet setup in todays fleet combats due to the current strength of ECM.

Electronic Superiority: Provides a boost to jammer strength. The most effective force multiplier in the game is ECM. Using this link in a fleet your jammers will be able to achieve jam strenths which can bring racial jammers past strenth 15 which gives you a 100% chance to jam any hac, cruiser forever with one jammer, or keep a battlecruiser locked up 90% of the time and a battleship locked down 80% of the time. Now most jamming ships carry many of these jammers (at least 4) so with your link bonus at best you suddenly have ONE blackbird keeping a carrier locked up most of the time (Jam str 12.184 with racial, 2xSignal distort ampII's, Electronic Superiority link, and all V skills. Avg carrier has 80 sensor strength so thats 12.184/80=15.23% chance to jam per jammer. This is a mutually exclusive event so with 4 jammers statistically your chance to jam that carrier is 0.1523*4=0.6128 or 61.28% to jam the carrier with 4 jammers. Without the link your jam strength at best is 11.092 giving you a 13.87% each jammer which is 55.48% chance to jam with 4 jammers on that same carrier. it doesn't seem like much but the more jammers you add to this equation the larger the diffrence in probability between having the link and being without. If a blackbird can take a carrier out of the fight reliability with this link, thats a pretty big deal.

Recon Operation: This module is sick because of the effect on ecm range. With this module you can easily get all your jammers to jam effectively over 130KM including multispectral's. With racials it becomes possible to attain setups which can jam at 190 KM at best. Now this is also the most practical of the links because not everybody has maxed out jammer skills and with these links suddenly your joe average player in a blackbird is hitting 150KM with his racial jammers and that makes forming a sizable ECM support group far easier and realistic. This also boosts the ranges on sensor damps and tracking disruptor's also making a difference since it now makes it possible for these ewar ships to effect snipers.

Sensor Integrity: In my opinion this is the most important of the gang links in todays fleet warfare. This gives people who you are boosting a blanked bonus of up to 25.87% stronger sensor strength which makes you harder to jam. Considering you can have this effect your whole fleet, it gives enemy ewar a hard time in jamming you as they will have to stack more jammers on your ships to reliablity jam them. That means you have reduced the effectiveness of their force multiplier. With this your carriers will have a sensor strenth of about 100 which makes them significantly harder to keep jammed and will cause your enemy to divert more of their jammers to lock down a single cap ship.

While none of these gang links are 'win' buttons in todays fleet engagements, neither are any of the siege or armored links. They effect the bulk of your fleet and make them more effective. Harder to kill is nice, but with the strength of Ewar in todays fleet engagements, Information Warefare links have 3 useful modules compared to 1 for the siege and armored links. Furthermore the potency of these links in my opinion add more strength to the potency of a balanced fleet then any of the armored or siege warfare links could. Just having the Sensor Integrity link alone is a massive boost to your fleet.



Zanquis
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.02.24 21:37:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 24/02/2008 20:05:54
yes please.

gallente = offensive & damage race... so why do we have a freaking ewar bonus on our command ship? shouldnt caldari have this?

btw i think this is overpowered... but... gimmegimmegimme... gallente got nerfed too far lately^^


I do agree it would fit well on Caldari too, however ever race has ewar and only one race exclusivly shield tanks. Therefore it makes more sense to have siege links which effect shield tanks with the one race that does it.

You could move the Siege links over to Minmitar and give Information to Caldari, but that wouldn't be a good deal for minmitar who generally armor tank and have little use for it. It would also mean Gallente would get skirmish links which makes little sense since it also doesn't complement anything racially Gallente except for the boost in warp disruption which one link offers. In truth the only links I see complementing Gallante are armor links since much of that has to do with active tanks, but the only links Amarr have a remote connection to is armor links since they have no use for any of the other links. It's kinda a rock in a hard place really and in the end I do not think the devs want to change it much because in the end these links are not designed to complement one race, but the entire fleet which is almost always composed of all races. In the end it really doesn't matter who has what links. However as a Caldari player I would trade my siege links for information warfare links in a second if I had the choice because it would make more a difference in fleets. Though I do admit that in the case of siege links they will be more useful then armor links because in fleet battles the only useful tank is a passive one and that means only the resistance links count and they are effected by stacking penality's. Since most people armor tank in a fleet, the siege links resistance bonus will overall add more to the fleets strenth in my opinion then its armored counterpart as it will make your shield buffer more resilient.

Jessica Molla
Posted - 2008.02.24 21:56:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Zanquis
Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 24/02/2008 20:05:54
yes please.

gallente = offensive & damage race... so why do we have a freaking ewar bonus on our command ship? shouldnt caldari have this?

btw i think this is overpowered... but... gimmegimmegimme... gallente got nerfed too far lately^^


I do agree it would fit well on Caldari too, however ever race has ewar and only one race exclusivly shield tanks. Therefore it makes more sense to have siege links which effect shield tanks with the one race that does it.

You could move the Siege links over to Minmitar and give Information to Caldari, but that wouldn't be a good deal for minmitar who generally armor tank and have little use for it. It would also mean Gallente would get skirmish links which makes little sense since it also doesn't complement anything racially Gallente except for the boost in warp disruption which one link offers. In truth the only links I see complementing Gallante are armor links since much of that has to do with active tanks, but the only links Amarr have a remote connection to is armor links since they have no use for any of the other links. It's kinda a rock in a hard place really and in the end I do not think the devs want to change it much because in the end these links are not designed to complement one race, but the entire fleet which is almost always composed of all races. In the end it really doesn't matter who has what links. However as a Caldari player I would trade my siege links for information warfare links in a second if I had the choice because it would make more a difference in fleets. Though I do admit that in the case of siege links they will be more useful then armor links because in fleet battles the only useful tank is a passive one and that means only the resistance links count and they are effected by stacking penality's. Since most people armor tank in a fleet, the siege links resistance bonus will overall add more to the fleets strenth in my opinion then its armored counterpart as it will make your shield buffer more resilient.


I have to admit that you made your point, however there is a difference between large fleet battles(over a hundred on each side) and smaller skirmishes(under a hundred), ECM and any form of e-war are generally very useful, but when you got so many pilots on the field then they become not that important; they are important, yes, but in this case(large battle) having more armor(shields), better resists or higher dps is in my opinion what everyone would go for...

on the other hand when fighting smaller battles, information links would be quite useful...but still i dunno if more or less than the other ones

Jessica Molla
Posted - 2008.02.24 21:59:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Alex Shurk
hahahahahahahah
hahahaha
ahaha
ahah
hah.

No.



very constructive...

Ephemeron
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.02.24 22:18:00 - [8]
 

There is a general damage-phobia in EVE design pattern. Tanking has been boosted several times. Damage mod stacking nerfed. Rigs for boosting damage are severely nerfed, while tanking rigs are easy to fit. There are tanking pirate set implants, but non related to damage. Faction tanking gear is greatly superior to any faction offensive gear. I believe that CCP will be very reluctant to give Eos gang damage bonus even if we proved the idea to be reasonable.

I do believe that this is a reasonable idea.

I think it is reasonable because of 1 important fact: gang bonuses are stacking penalized with ship modules. For example, armor resist bonus from gang mod is stacking penalized with ship armor hardeners. It will be same with damage mods. If a ship is fitted with 3 damage mods, then damage bonus from gang mod isn't going to add a whole lot.

While damage bonus is very powerful, I don't think damage-phobia in EVE design is reasonable.

Frances Ducoir
Gallente
Koshaku
Dark Syndicate.
Posted - 2008.02.24 22:21:00 - [9]
 

Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 24/02/2008 22:22:43
IMO the problem is:

siege links , armor links and skirmish links have a much larger variety of use. they are useful in almost every gang, and they benefit the gang boosting CS themselfes.

info warfare is only useful in very specific circumstances and is not useful for the Eos itself. there were many threads about this topic and the conclusion was: many ewar using ppl didnt even notice a difference when there was a ewar boosting eos in the gang.

imo the eos should get gang links which are more useful in all gangs. example: weapon range, rof, tracking OR drone speed, damage (and ew/repair drone efficiency), drone tracking

since gallente have bonus for tracking links on the oneiros the above would fit much better to gallente style.


Zanquis
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.02.25 04:15:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Frances Ducoir
Edited by: Frances Ducoir on 24/02/2008 22:22:43
IMO the problem is:

siege links , armor links and skirmish links have a much larger variety of use. they are useful in almost every gang, and they benefit the gang boosting CS themselfes.

info warfare is only useful in very specific circumstances and is not useful for the Eos itself. there were many threads about this topic and the conclusion was: many ewar using ppl didnt even notice a difference when there was a ewar boosting eos in the gang.

imo the eos should get gang links which are more useful in all gangs. example: weapon range, rof, tracking OR drone speed, damage (and ew/repair drone efficiency), drone tracking

since gallente have bonus for tracking links on the oneiros the above would fit much better to gallente style.




Just because people do not say they notice it, it doesn't mean its not having a positive effect. Armour and Skirmish links suffer the same problem, you really don't notice them. For example if you have a person using gang links with all V skills in his Damnation and he puts up the resistance link which is supposed to give about 17.5% resistances to all armor resistance, it only really translates to about 3% resistances increased across the board because of major stacking penalty. Passive tanks are king in pvp so the other two links that effect active tanks are of little use as it is far more effective to have a high EHP and remote rep available in any size of conflict.

I find ECM is used heavily in small scale battles now too and see quite a bit of scorpions, blackbirds, kitsunes, and rooks being fielded in small gangs and gank squads. The reason is that even one ECM ship can lock down one or two enemies of your choice, and that makes for an easy win. If you have some of these information warfare links for even just your sensor strength, that will decrease the effectivness of that ECM by 25% which alone makes a diffrence. The strength and value of these Information warfare lniks tied to the effectiveness of electronic warfare, of which ECM is deadly powerful right now and the weapon of choice in any sized conflict to turn the tide. Its hard to directly attribute the effectiveness of any gang link because in general their bonus is low but effects the whole fleet. The effect however is there and in the case of information warfare, it can give your side a decisive advantage. I would argue that of all the gang links the Info Warefare links are the only ones which have the potential to give any one side a decisive advantage due to the effect it can have on the best force multiplier in the game, ECM.

Damned Force
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2008.02.25 15:09:00 - [11]
 

I hate to say that, but i would like to trade the warefare bonuses on my vulture for the eos ones... so devs if u think, make an exception and give this warefare bonuses to the vulture. Tnx Twisted Evil

Chencherra
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2008.02.25 15:50:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: Chencherra on 25/02/2008 16:19:59
OK it might be nice to boost ecm with an eos.
But the claymore boosts minmatar ships and all speedtankers/intercepters and stuff, the vulture boosts caldari ships or other shieldtankers, the abso boosts amarrships and all armor tankers and the eos boosts ecm ships ?

and the reason that there are so many ecm ships around is any other ewar is so underpowered, it hurts.

and for a lil more whining, find out what is wrong on that picture : linky

Tes Quin
Posted - 2008.02.25 16:55:00 - [13]
 

see, the e-warfare link only boosts a few modules placed on a handful of ships in your fleet (namely the ones using ewar) and, lets face it, in large battles these are insignificant numbers. any fc worth the name would slap you if you brought a falcon to a large fleet. because with increasing numbers individual ships become irrelevant. the other mindlinks provide bonuses to all ships, increasing their resists, speed and repair amount (very useful in conjunction with capitals).

so in conclusion the warfare links would benefit the small gangs, however, the boost in e-war strength is lower than replacing the Eos with a dedicated ewar ship.
ewar works as a multiplyer, but its effects are diminished as the alpha-capability of a fleet (its manpower) increases. the primary goes down anyway, no matter if some of the shooters are jamed (or dampened, painted, or tracking disrupted). if the defenders take more ewar, the best they can achieve is a slower death. more damage dealers might have brought them victory.
stacking ewar on a single target does not provide any benefit. you cant do more than disable that ships offensive capabilities. contrary to a one-shot kill with alpha.

as it is the eos provides no real benefit using its command bonus, especially after the nerf to its warfare link.

Goumindong
SniggWaffe
Posted - 2008.02.25 17:45:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Tes Quin
any fc worth the name would slap you if you brought a falcon to a large fleet.


You should be a comedian.

Arcord
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.02.25 20:26:00 - [15]
 

I see that this discussion has turned into a discussion about whether Eoses gang mods are useful or not

lets be honest people! as has been said, armor gang mods boost armor on all ships, so do shield mods and skirmish mods boost speed...again on all ships. But information mods do boost ecm strengh and etc...and that is that these warfare links offer some kind of a protection/support against only one rather narrow class of the ships(ist not even against all of e-war!!! but just ecm)

this conclusion tells me two things...either ECM is overpowered(if there has to be whole CS branch dedicated to it) or the links are logically underpowered

the damege bonuses proposed by the OP might just be little overpowered but the idea behind it is good, it would just need a little bit of work. Although as far as i know, CCP will be very reluctant to make any change...but its needed...if you look at the composition of all modern fleets, you'll have hard time finding an Eos, no matter what guys above me said, this ship as currently is is by far the worst Fleet CS of all of them...

Zanquis
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.02.25 21:02:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Tes Quin
see, the e-warfare link only boosts a few modules placed on a handful of ships in your fleet (namely the ones using ewar) and, lets face it, in large battles these are insignificant numbers. any fc worth the name would slap you if you brought a falcon to a large fleet. because with increasing numbers individual ships become irrelevant. the other mindlinks provide bonuses to all ships, increasing their resists, speed and repair amount (very useful in conjunction with capitals).

so in conclusion the warfare links would benefit the small gangs, however, the boost in e-war strength is lower than replacing the Eos with a dedicated ewar ship.
ewar works as a multiplyer, but its effects are diminished as the alpha-capability of a fleet (its manpower) increases. the primary goes down anyway, no matter if some of the shooters are jamed (or dampened, painted, or tracking disrupted). if the defenders take more ewar, the best they can achieve is a slower death. more damage dealers might have brought them victory.
stacking ewar on a single target does not provide any benefit. you cant do more than disable that ships offensive capabilities. contrary to a one-shot kill with alpha.

as it is the eos provides no real benefit using its command bonus, especially after the nerf to its warfare link.


On the contrary, any fleet commander worth his salt will embrace ECM and snipers. ECM not only offers you a powerful force multiplier, but it also gives you an element of control over the fight. I have been in fleets before under a FC who never uses snipers and ewar and always prefered big meaty battleship and oodles of carriers and dreads. We came up against a force heavy on ECM and got slaughtered on two different occasions. The reason why? The enemy FC had control over the fight. If a enemy ship becomes a nusance it ended up being jammed, moreover all our carriers where jammed which prevented them from supporting the main fleet and hindered our ability to focus fire. ECM also allows a FC react quickly to changing situations such as a unforeseen task force droping on your sniper or ECM fleet as they can jam them up until help arrives to deal with the threat. There are endless options if you control the Ewar field, and only predictable options if you do not. If any fleet commander lacks any ewar in a big fight, they are doomed because the enemy has absolute control over the fight and nothing short of overwhelming numbers is going to help you, and even then you will take heavy losses.

Also I would once again like to state that gang links should not be balanced with selfish intent. That is that Gallente links shouldn't only be fitted to help Gallente ships. Though from the perspective or lore and common sense I will admit that it should be. Fleets are almost never one of one specific race, and remember links do not stack. Furthermore I would like to point out while the armor and siege links will have a global effect on the fleet, the Information warfare will have a larger impact on how the battle will turn out. Having your ewar out of range for even enemy anti support snipers and your ships more resistant to the effects of ECM will do far more to win the battle then an additinoal 2-3% resistance on everybody's omni tank. Why? Because if you bring 5 carriers to the fight and they bring 10, and you jam 8 of theirs, you have a massive advantage.

Zanquis
Caldari
Universal Exports
Cult of War
Posted - 2008.02.25 21:07:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Arcord
I see that this discussion has turned into a discussion about whether Eoses gang mods are useful or not

lets be honest people! as has been said, armor gang mods boost armor on all ships, so do shield mods and skirmish mods boost speed...again on all ships. But information mods do boost ecm strengh and etc...and that is that these warfare links offer some kind of a protection/support against only one rather narrow class of the ships(ist not even against all of e-war!!! but just ecm)

this conclusion tells me two things...either ECM is overpowered(if there has to be whole CS branch dedicated to it) or the links are logically underpowered

the damege bonuses proposed by the OP might just be little overpowered but the idea behind it is good, it would just need a little bit of work. Although as far as i know, CCP will be very reluctant to make any change...but its needed...if you look at the composition of all modern fleets, you'll have hard time finding an Eos, no matter what guys above me said, this ship as currently is is by far the worst Fleet CS of all of them...


I would agree that ECM is too powerful at this point in time, however I do not agree that all other forms of ewar are not powerful. Tracking disruptors and energy nukes are among the most powerful available right now though not nearly as good as ECM. Sensor damps need some tweeking but can be downright deadly when used with ECM (use ecm to break targets and rotate while having damps hinder their ability to re-target. this is not very practical though due to the coordination required)

Chencherra
Gallente
Serious Business Incorporated
Posted - 2008.02.25 22:55:00 - [18]
 

give the eos sensor-damp-only booster links. one for range, one for strength, well, and leave the one usefull thingy as it is.
ecm is strong enough without any gangmods.
and make some scripts for ecm. one for cap usage ( gotta raise the this a bit ) and one for range.


-end-

Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
Posted - 2008.02.25 23:12:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Ebodhisatva on 25/02/2008 23:18:05
Originally by: Jessica Molla

Yes you can say that Eos has much more damage than other


Excuse me?

Originally by: Jessica Molla

FCS but it also has the worst tank...


Excuse me?

Originally by: Jessica Molla

well what do you think?



Try to proper fit an Eos,

Field it

Come to the conclusion that it has the best tank ingame.

you can tank +1000dps in this little baby, I used to fly it, but when they changed the high slot AND changed drones to bandwith consumption, ccp crippled it big time. Maybe they didn't even cripple it, they ****d it, molested it, put a giant sword in it and left it behind as a knocked up, forever frightened poor child bleeding in the sun to watch it die in vain.

But tbfh, I really think that the warfare bonusses are not that good for this boat. I like your idea.

Drachma Golea
Caldari
hunter killers
Posted - 2008.02.25 23:26:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Alex Shurk
hahahahahahahah
hahahaha
ahaha
ahah
hah.

No.


Nevermind this guy, he's full of bullox and an EFT fanatic. He doesn't play the game.

Jessica Molla
Posted - 2008.02.26 00:06:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Ebodhisatva
Edited by: Ebodhisatva on 25/02/2008 23:18:05
Originally by: Jessica Molla

Yes you can say that Eos has much more damage than other


Excuse me?

Originally by: Jessica Molla

FCS but it also has the worst tank...


Excuse me?

Originally by: Jessica Molla

well what do you think?



Try to proper fit an Eos,

Field it

Come to the conclusion that it has the best tank ingame.

you can tank +1000dps in this little baby, I used to fly it, but when they changed the high slot AND changed drones to bandwith consumption, ccp crippled it big time. Maybe they didn't even cripple it, they ****d it, molested it, put a giant sword in it and left it behind as a knocked up, forever frightened poor child bleeding in the sun to watch it die in vain.

But tbfh, I really think that the warfare bonusses are not that good for this boat. I like your idea.


Well i fly an Eos and i think i have it fitted properly(with/without gang mods) and I see no way you can fit it to tank 1000+ dps withou getting deadspace/officer gear or having damnation in the gang...and relating to the damage output...5 neutrons+drones give you over 500dps which is much more than any other fleet CS...

as for the rest...thanks

Ebodhisatva
The Templars Knights
Posted - 2008.02.26 00:50:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Jessica Molla


Well i fly an Eos and i think i have it fitted properly(with/without gang mods) and I see no way you can fit it to tank 1000+ dps withou getting deadspace/officer gear or having damnation in the gang...and relating to the damage output...5 neutrons+drones give you over 500dps which is much more than any other fleet CS...

as for the rest...thanks


Indeed I flew the Eos with
2 corpum reppers, 1 damage control II, 2 core x explosion and 1 corpum eanm.
4 cap rechargers
5 neutron blasters, 2 warfare links
1 aux nano pump II, 1 cap control circuit II

Couldn't run both reppers 24/7 but I missed every other cycle iirc.
It did with the resistance included about 1100 to 1200 raw dps.

I never lost that boat...

It just has one hell of a tank.

But as you said, with it's warfare modules it won't help much as a Fleet Command Ship,
it just isn't prepared for the most commonly used modules by EVE, or even gallente imho.


Jessica Molla
Posted - 2008.02.26 14:43:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ebodhisatva
Originally by: Jessica Molla


Well i fly an Eos and i think i have it fitted properly(with/without gang mods) and I see no way you can fit it to tank 1000+ dps withou getting deadspace/officer gear or having damnation in the gang...and relating to the damage output...5 neutrons+drones give you over 500dps which is much more than any other fleet CS...

as for the rest...thanks


Indeed I flew the Eos with
2 corpum reppers, 1 damage control II, 2 core x explosion and 1 corpum eanm.
4 cap rechargers
5 neutron blasters, 2 warfare links
1 aux nano pump II, 1 cap control circuit II

Couldn't run both reppers 24/7 but I missed every other cycle iirc.
It did with the resistance included about 1100 to 1200 raw dps.

I never lost that boat...

It just has one hell of a tank.

But as you said, with it's warfare modules it won't help much as a Fleet Command Ship,
it just isn't prepared for the most commonly used modules by EVE, or even gallente imho.




well tbh if you spent that much money on any other fleet command ship, you'd get much much better tank than eos has...

whats more...eos uses the worst type of tanking- active armor- that means that just one med neut+ put on ya will most definitely screw your whole tank up...

look at the damnation- you can very easily get 500k+ Effective HP tanking 600dps with just one med repper(T2)
look at the vulture- its got sick passive shield tank withstanding hell of a beating again just with T2 gear
look at the claymore- well i am not an expert on minmatar ships but sure as hell this ships tanks nice

and here you put the eos, still inferior to these ships even with deadspace fit...dont it tell ya somethin'?

the only reason people fly it(including myself) is that eos delivers around 500 dps with pretty good tank which is not bad...and gang mods? only hardcore players go for those and only very hardcore playes find it worth training for information mindling...

the problem remains as i stated in my OP- it would be really nice if the warfare links were changedWink

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2008.02.26 16:59:00 - [24]
 

Eos should just specialize in drone gang links. Range , speed , tracking. This would make the Eos an ideal counter to nanogangs , and make drones more relevant to fleet warfare (imagine your snipers throwing ECM drones at the enemy fleet 100km away)

Spenz
Gallente
PCG Enterprises
Huzzah Federation
Posted - 2008.02.27 00:30:00 - [25]
 

Edited by: Spenz on 27/02/2008 00:31:11
I dunno I think if anything they should transfer armor links over to the eos and create capacitor links for the amarr. It kind of makes sense since many T2 amarr ships involve the capacitor in some way (whether it be the guardian with its cap boosting abilities, the recons/Efrigs with their anti-cap abilities, or the Avatar with its capacitor boosting gang bonus).

This ship is pretty terrible in its current form. FC's prefer any ship over the Eos. Like someone said, it is better to bring another ewar ship than an eos. Though the dps is high, it is very very short range, destructible(drones), and is not sustainable since drones die and blasters take cap. Not only that, it does have the worst tank for fleet and gang warfare, which also nullifies its damage to a good degree due to the cap-hungry nature of the tank.

As it stands, there is no real good reason to fly the ship. Anything you can do with the eos, you can do with another fleet command ship cheaper and more effective.

OneSock
Crown Industries
Posted - 2008.02.27 15:25:00 - [26]
 

My vote would be for drone links. Hard fix the drone bay and switch the bonus to hybrid optial range.

Marlona Sky
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:00:00 - [27]
 

You know, if you fly one specific race fleet command ship, nothing is stopping you from cross training for the other gang links. True they wont be as effective if you don't pair them up with the appropriate ship, but you do have the option.

It will be interesting to see what new gang links will be introcduced when the new race is introduced way down road.

I like the information gang links. They are extremely useful when paired with ships that do EW. But only on rare occasions is this pulled off that I have seen.

Fofalus
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2008.03.03 02:59:00 - [28]
 

These are the facts.
  1. Eos has less of a tank than any other fleet command ship when using equal fittings.
  2. Eos has less firepower than any other fleet command ship when using equal fittings
  3. Eos gang warfare links do not affect all ships in the fleet so are not as valuable as the other 3 categories.
  4. Eos Gang warfare links do not follow racial specialties like every other fleet command ship


You can not dispute any of those points logically.

When CCP blindly tried to balance the Eos(it needed balancing I don't deny that) they decided to nerf every piece of it when the drone nerf alone would have been enough. Not only do the link nerfs and gun nerfs hurt enough but the drone nerf completely makes the drone bay bonus useless.

Fake Edit: I had more well thought arguments but even thinking about these changes make me honestly to god sick (like I just want to puke) I will post them later

Princess Xenia
Caldari
Scion Innovations
Posted - 2008.03.03 03:48:00 - [29]
 


In small gang or fleet PvP, Do you agree aggroing is mostly efficient when dealing dammage?

Damnation: Will the armor bonus save you??? maybe to last a few more seconds... but NO

Claymore: Will the speed bonus save you??? maybe to run away... but NO

Vulture: Will the shield bonus save you? maybe to last a few more seconds... but NO

Eos: Will the sensor bonus save you???? NO

NEW EOS: Will this dammage bonus PWN EVERYONE????? YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> OVERPOWERED!!!!

NOTE: Are you so blind and ur Brain stuffed in your Gallente behind to see its inbalanced???

I do agree infowar link does not look as 'green' as other warfare links.... UNTIL you get owned by ECM or want to PWN with E-war...

They are working FINE!!!!!!!!!!!!

Fofalus
Agony Unleashed
Posted - 2008.03.03 03:51:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Princess Xenia
?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?!?!??!?!?!?!


Oh wait boosting specialized EWAR thats already over powered makes it more over powered awesome. Good thing Damnation boosts armour claymore boosts speed and night hawk boosts shields racial things each and the GALLENTE ship which require GALLENTE CRUISER 5 boosts ECM which is not the GALLENTE racial ewar. Makes perfect sense.


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