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blankseplocked Has EVE become too small?
 
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Verone
Gallente
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:29:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Gar Loken
Has the EVE Universe become too small?


Short answer, Yes.

For the actual long answer, I'd need 2 hours to fully explain it, or 25000 words. Laughing


Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:34:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Verone
Originally by: Gar Loken
Has the EVE Universe become too small?


Short answer, Yes.

For the actual long answer, I'd need 2 hours to fully explain it, or 25000 words. Laughing




If your explanation doesn't include the fact that people by and large CHOOSE to make EvE too small by hugging the same few systems, over 2/3 of them in highsec (don't let nasty piwates like Verone get me!! YARRRR!!), then I'd actually love to hear it... If you're as enthusiastic about sharing your view, eve-mail me in game and I'll send you my email address.

Finanche
Minmatar
Salus Novus
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:35:00 - [63]
 

Edited by: Finanche on 21/02/2008 20:36:52
For those of you who have read my posts (and blog) regarding the drone regions - please enjoy this little taste of Elvis

Well the world turns
and a hungry little boy with a runny nose
plays in the street as the cold wind blows
...In the ghetto


The Drone Regions are the Ghetto.

It's like living in Detroit while others are living on the upper east side of New York. I've scanned down systems in many NPC and non-NPC 0.0 locations in the North and South and they are just plain MORE bountiful in resources, moons, plexes, and as the OP noted bounty rats (which make money folks, period).

To make money from drone alloys, means, I have to contract to the corp, get the money, or fly it to empire and sell it myself etc. It's nice if you are building stuff, but who the hell comes to the drone regions to buy ships, ammo, etc that you're building - you have to be high. The Corp loves it since they make stuff for free, but as a capitalistic venture for the common corp member.. well.. it's no fun.

But it's where I live.. and I make the most out of it.

And to the point that the universe is too small.. read the economic quarterly, only 9% actually stay in 0.0, so plenty of room man - just explore.

Here is the the good news for the drone regions..

...no one invades the ghetto...


Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:41:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: Finanche
Edited by: Finanche on 21/02/2008 20:36:52
For those of you who have read my posts (and blog) regarding the drone regions - please enjoy this little taste of Elvis

Well the world turns
and a hungry little boy with a runny nose
plays in the street as the cold wind blows
...In the ghetto


The Drone Regions are the Ghetto.

It's like living in Detroit while others are living on the upper east side of New York. I've scanned down systems in many NPC and non-NPC 0.0 locations in the North and South and they are just plain MORE bountiful in resources, moons, plexes, and as the OP noted bounty rats (which make money folks, period).

To make money from drone alloys, means, I have to contract to the corp, get the money, or fly it to empire and sell it myself etc. It's nice if you are building stuff, but who the hell comes to the drone regions to buy ships, ammo, etc that you're building - you have to be high. The Corp loves it since they make stuff for free, but as a capitalistic venture for the common corp member.. well.. it's no fun.

But it's where I live.. and I make the most out of it.

And to the point that the universe is too small.. read the economic quarterly, only 9% actually stay in 0.0, so plenty of room man - just explore.

Here is the the good news for the drone regions..

...no one invades the ghetto...





/thread

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.02.21 21:04:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Shintai
I have played since EvEs start. And yes it is too small. I would also like to see some factional wars. Like Gallente/Minmatar vs Caldari/Amarr.

EvE was a much more wast and spacy place in the start. Now its more like the central station during rushhour at almost everywhere.


Either contract all your stuff over to Havohej and be done with it or stop crying for CCP to add more space.

The fact of the matter is there are literally hundreds of systems in 0.0 where nobody is at right now, nobody even roams through them 'cause they're so out of the way. If you want to enjoy an EVE where you never ever see any other player on local, use your map settings and go find one.

The fact that you're here whining on the forums with the rest of these common-sense-challenged players testifies to the fact that even if they DO add systems, you won't go to them. You're not even using the space that's already there.


Only if you wish for everyone to play the game the way you wish. But then you would quickly be very much alone and start to complain over lack of development and the funds to do it.

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.02.22 02:50:00 - [66]
 

Edited by: ***er on 22/02/2008 03:00:57
Originally by: Alz Shado
Originally by: decoherance
Originally by: ***er
A lowsec/0.0 line between the 4 empires.


This is what we need! Would be awesome fun to trade and do the Industry side with this. As Prices would differ enormusly between the empires. AND THERE WOULD BE REASON TO ENTER LOW SEC - to sell your super rare caldari shuttles in gallente space for mad cash profits! (seriously.. low sec would flourish)
Ofcourse no super choakpoints thou.. pirates shouldnt get it on a silver plattern
- Example: Isogen, not minable in Caldari space afaik... imagine the buyprices.. and theres ****loads of it in minmatar witch i think lacks peroxites (nocxium).




This


Go live in the Drone regions. No mexallon ore + compression nerf = a fun factor on the level of a kick to the balls.


Theres no zydrine mining in empire, anywhere... You cant really compare it to 0.0. Im talking about making many safe places, not one big. And trading between these safe places.

That is to different from 0.0 views to compare. I mean its not like you cant get isogen from lowsec or 0.0 .. or minmatar space (from caldari pov)

Theres a LARGE step between trading from unsafe to unsafe throu unsafe - and- from safe to safe throu unsafe.

Ppl will never wanna go to low sec as it is now, however if theres mad profits to be made on the other side... The real problem with this is new IRL friends choosing different races might get into trouble getting to eachother. However this is not fluff online...


Heck creating a High sec cluster somewhere in deep 0.0 with trading possibilities to Empire would lure out many traders to go to low sec and 0.0 if theres isk to be made.

Anyway seperating the empires with low sec would rule in:
- Pirates POV (more targets)
- Traders POV (isogen prices would be madly different in caldari/minmatar for example)
- RPG POV (All the agents send you shooting at the empires, yet you fly between them like they are holding hands 1.0 to 1.0).
- JITA LAG (tradehubs would seperate to atleast 1 per empire and hauling goods between them would probably generate cash like mad)
- Make EvE seem larger (atleast unthil you get jump clones, wich id suggest a slight nerf to also - only able to + standing stations wich would eveluate the RPG POV even more)

would suck to:
- New players trying to get to their new corp, or friends


ah well to me it sounds like a dream come true atleast Laughing

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.22 04:42:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Shintai
Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Shintai
I have played since EvEs start. And yes it is too small. I would also like to see some factional wars. Like Gallente/Minmatar vs Caldari/Amarr.

EvE was a much more wast and spacy place in the start. Now its more like the central station during rushhour at almost everywhere.


Either contract all your stuff over to Havohej and be done with it or stop crying for CCP to add more space.

The fact of the matter is there are literally hundreds of systems in 0.0 where nobody is at right now, nobody even roams through them 'cause they're so out of the way. If you want to enjoy an EVE where you never ever see any other player on local, use your map settings and go find one.

The fact that you're here whining on the forums with the rest of these common-sense-challenged players testifies to the fact that even if they DO add systems, you won't go to them. You're not even using the space that's already there.


Only if you wish for everyone to play the game the way you wish. But then you would quickly be very much alone and start to complain over lack of development and the funds to do it.



Your reply doesn't make sense. It isn't relevant to anything that either you or I said before it. I have re-quoted the exchange as it has taken place up to this point, emboldening, italicizing and underlining certain key phrases for emphasis.

This has nothing to do with how anybody does or doesn't want to play the game. This has to do with you idiots saying that "eve is too small, CCP give us moar space so we can enjoy the benefits of 0.0 with even less risk of having to interact with other people - especially those who want to engage in non-consentual PvP" and the fact that you're saying "giv us moar sistm plx" DESPITE the fact that there are HUNDREDS of systems that you clowns aren't even using. There's plenty of room. Go play in it, or quit EvE, give me your stuff, and go find a game you would be better equipped to enjoy (Hint: I suggest something that's 1-player and designed for console game platforms, you know, like xbox?).

Dufas
Amarr
freelancers inc
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.02.22 06:33:00 - [68]
 

Y E S ! ! size of eve was great when peak time consisted of 8k ppl online..now there's 35k and up... imho we definately need another 7 to 14 regions added Shocked

Mymain DreadMoros
Posted - 2008.02.22 06:35:00 - [69]
 

Eve is too small it should be 100 times the size it is now. There should be a real feeling of size in eve. Increase the size of eve and add more entry points into 0.0 to make gate camps more difficult we would see a very different and great new eve.

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2008.02.22 08:19:00 - [70]
 

Want Eve to feel larger?

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=625147&page=4#116

Read that, though it's long, my appologies.

Bozl1n
Caldari
The Black Rabbits
The Gurlstas Associates
Posted - 2008.02.22 08:46:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Edited by: Havohej on 20/02/2008 19:22:23
Originally by: Gar Loken
There's too many established player corporations and alliances in EVE now and so there's nothing left for noobs to go out and get for free without having to really develop our individual skills, build a corporation, join an established alliance to grow and learn how things work while gradually building the strength to go and carve out our own piece of the pie (or alternately, fail miserably and disband like most corps eventually do).

So since it's all just too hard, can you please make more space with more rats, lowest possible truesec ratings, highest rat bounties, most arkonor and bistot roids, most faction spawns and uber exploration sites plx CCP thanks.


No.

When you quit EVE, can have your stuff?

EDIT: Felt clarification of my position might help the OP.

Look up my character in-game. I think it'll say I started on October 19 of 2007. So that means I've been playing for 4 months.

In that time, I flew in the NPC noob corp and learned. I joined a player corp and learned. Recruited some people for the guy who ran that. Him and I had a falling out, so me and 3 of my recruits left. Having learned much from that guy while everything was going smoothly, and to avoid the potential hassle of joining a corp with somebody who seemed cool but turned into a dictatorial prick, we decided to start our own thing and just stick to ourselves.

We got bored. We decided to expand. I started this corp and built it from one member to 21 members. Now we fly in 0.0 as part of Anthrax Death, a growing alliance made up largely of well-established and experienced folks who have been in the game for years and paid their dues. Now we have our first POS up.

I am told on a daily basis by players with employment histories reaching back to 2003 how I'm doing exceptionally well, both for myself and my corporation, especially given that this isn't an alt, it is in fact my first and main character. Ever. Yet I've learned, I've done the homework, I've lrn2EVE'd. And I'm still learning, and I'm still paying dues, but fact of the matter is I've managed to lead my corp to a more solid position developmentally than 90% of the player corps that started around the same time as we started [DFIAS].

And all of that DESPITE having named it after an NPC entity from the much-despised WoW.

Stop crying and play the damn game, tbh.

But if you DO quit... can I hav ur stuff?


Awsome post.

If peeps bothered to actully try to do things instead of whineing about not being able to do them they might get somewhere.

Same as the "chokepoint" whine, people complain they cant get into .0, ive lived in .0 for what 4 years or so, ive travaled almost the entire map, i never even bother to look at my autopilot when i set course, 1/2 the time i can be 3-4 jumps into .0 before i even realise that ive entered .0 space and decide to pay attention lol. The gates arnt camped 23/7. And if your in the correct ship to be travaling in the first place, there arnt many gatecamps you cant blaze anyway, jump your indy or bs into .0 on its own unescorted or scouted u deserve to die, unless you know for a fact its a blue camp peeps that live in .0 dont do it, so niather should "visitors"


Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.22 09:48:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Taua Roqa
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.



could you please tell more about these smuggler stargates :O? are they just like normal ones are secret and hidden for exploration?





I believe what Danton is referring to is Jump Bridges, which can be anchored at POSes in systems that your alliance holds sovereignty over. These Jump Bridges act as private stargates allowing an alliance that has worked and built its territory and network of jump bridges to establish more secure supply chains, rather than risk every hauler convoy to random gatecamps.

Just like the jump drives on many capital ships, the Jump Bridge has a range of 5 light years and consumes fuel obtained from ice (liquid ozone instead of one of the 4 types of isotopes that capital ship jump drives require).

Jump Bridges are more than mere 'smuggler's gates' as a smuggler is someone who is moving cargo, illegal or otherwise, through an area that he may or may not be allowed to move said cargo through in such a manner that is intended to evade authorities. An RL example would be the 'coyotes' smuggling illegal immigrants across national borders in their vans. An EvE-Online example would be if a player wanted to haul 100 cubic meters of the drug Improved Drop into Jita and used Jump Bridges to bypass the normal stargates. In fact, this is not possible, because a jump bridge can only be anchored on a POS in a system where you hold sovereignty, so they cannot be in lowsec/empire space, nor can they be in npc 0.0.

They are a reward that an alliance must earn the right to use through solid gameplay, savvy diplomacy and successful tactical maneuvering. They should not be removed from the game, they should remain there as a goal for every alliance present and future to be able to work towards. From an RP standpoint, Jump Bridges are a logical presence in a game where players can hold sovereignty over a region - they are able to dictate the placement, accessibility and destination of stargates, albeit to a limited extent.


Not at all, I've got no experience of jump bridges to comment on their effect on EVE, what I do know is that Smuggler Gates effectively shrink EVE way more than they should. I'd hope to see these connections along with the conquerable stations becoming destructible some day as they're both just bandaids, leftovers from a former era long gone.

Karlemgne
Tides Of War
Posted - 2008.02.22 10:02:00 - [73]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus

Not at all, I've got no experience of jump bridges to comment on their effect on EVE, what I do know is that Smuggler Gates effectively shrink EVE way more than they should. I'd hope to see these connections along with the conquerable stations becoming destructible some day as they're both just bandaids, leftovers from a former era long gone.


Forgive me, but "smugglers gates?" I've been playing this game for two years, and have never had any indication that "smugglers" gates were anything other than non-operable structures dropped into missions. I've never heard anyone in any alliance I've been in, any corp, any vent conversation, or even on these forums, until today, utter a single word that would suggest that there were operational hidden "smugglers gates."

Maybe I've just missed this, its entirely possible as I still learn some things about eve nearly every day. In any case, at the present time I'm forced to say that you are terribly misinformed, and that these don't exist. I'd like to see proof, OTHER than linked fiction.

-Karlemgne

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2008.02.22 10:05:00 - [74]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
As long as the risk-free ISK-fountains stay in hi-sec, there's no reason for a lot of people to leave, the kind that basically want to play a single-player game with an integrated chat channel.


and what's wrong with this type of fun / playstyle? Yea, you don't like to play like this but many do. And they pay the same amount as you!

So where do you take the right to tell em "hey, I don't like how you play, do it how I do it!!11elven".

Or better. Take a group of 5 (max for mission rewards). After a while this 5 guys have enough ISK to buy a POS. But where to go? They know that there nice little POS will be blown up by the next mega-corp after some days if this mega-corp "likes to have some fun" and they can't do anythink against it! 5v50 or 100 or even 500?

They will lose just becouse some other "like to have some fun" and go bersek.

For me (and many more as the numbers sugest) ... convert all 0.0/low to highsec please @CCP. thouse losy 5% of pirates out there don't count anyway ;).

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2008.02.22 10:47:00 - [75]
 

Edited by: Kerfira on 22/02/2008 10:48:22
As such, the EVE universe is not too small. There's plenty of space.

That being said, there are some horrible related problems, of which I'll mention a few. These problems are mainly due to the unbalanced way ISK-earnings are spread across systems.

1. A lot of 0.0 space is useless! Anything above true.sec -0.5 (which is most) can't provide an income which is in any way comparable with what you can get running L4 missions in high-sec.

2. Low-sec in general is useless!

3. 0.0 (except for NPC space with agents) can't support a lot of players. One player, MAYBE 2, can rat in one system. One player can (once in a while) explore in a system, etc.

4. The quality/sec.level influence of agents (particularly the high-end L4's) was intended to create a 'progression ladder' for agent runners, but has in reality just meant that ALL mission runners eventually gather in the same few systems.

A few solutions to some problems.....

A. Remove the 1.0 to -1.0 sec.level of systems COMPLETELY. Replace it with just 3 levels, High-Sec/Low-Sec/No-Sec. Within each level, the rewards are the same within the same region, but the current regional differences (like type of NPC, type of 'roids etc.) remains.

B. Remove the Quality of agents COMPLETELY. Let all L4's in High-Sec give the same rewards, double that for Low-Sec, double again for No-Sec. This'll spread out people across empire instead of bunching them up.

C. Make agents appear in outposts. Maybe correlated to sovereignty. So at sov.1, one or more L1 will appear, at sov.2, L2('s) appear, etc.

D. Increase security in Low-Sec. Make gates and stations protected areas so people can travel in low-sec freely, but everywhere else they can be ganked! I know this'll make a lot of cheap gate-gankers whine and cry, but it'll make low-sec way more populated.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.22 11:01:00 - [76]
 

Originally by: Karlemgne
Originally by: Danton Marcellus

Not at all, I've got no experience of jump bridges to comment on their effect on EVE, what I do know is that Smuggler Gates effectively shrink EVE way more than they should. I'd hope to see these connections along with the conquerable stations becoming destructible some day as they're both just bandaids, leftovers from a former era long gone.


Forgive me, but "smugglers gates?" I've been playing this game for two years, and have never had any indication that "smugglers" gates were anything other than non-operable structures dropped into missions. I've never heard anyone in any alliance I've been in, any corp, any vent conversation, or even on these forums, until today, utter a single word that would suggest that there were operational hidden "smugglers gates."

Maybe I've just missed this, its entirely possible as I still learn some things about eve nearly every day. In any case, at the present time I'm forced to say that you are terribly misinformed, and that these don't exist. I'd like to see proof, OTHER than linked fiction.

-Karlemgne


TCAG-3 to G-M4GK and C-PEWN to D4-2XN those are both smuggler gates, I've been here a helluva lot longer than you have so chances are it's you being terribly misinformed. I could go on pointing out all the deep space systems connected to eachother that weren't at some point before Forsaken Ruins but I think you get the picture now.

Jack Jombardo
Amarr
Cosmic Allianz
Posted - 2008.02.22 11:07:00 - [77]
 

Don't missunderstand me. Low/0.0 might have problems. But don't search em at highsec or the playerbase there!

One problem of 0.0 (for me personal) is the missing of NPC stations ... and the view that are our there are highly camped.

The next (for me) is, that it is very dificult to establish there without HIGH amounts of ISK/SP/Members.

My wish would be an Island system where highsec is spreded out with several low/0.0 jumps between it but more then enough ways to the Island (min 6) so it can't be isolated by campers to easy. Providing save places with nice agents (may be very interesting factions) but a risk to get there.

Ioci
Gallente
Space Mermaids
Posted - 2008.02.22 11:26:00 - [78]
 

Nul sec is not for the faint at heart. Bigger Eve would be great but I would be forced to say, bigger safe sec might be the real answer to any future Eve expacks. Nul sec is in a state right now where you need diplomacy and can't just force your way in but that's to be expected. If they added 90 new systems, they would be gone in a month, alot to the big alliances.

Korkoff
Posted - 2008.02.22 11:49:00 - [79]
 

Wow totally amazing. I love to here guys in major alliances talk about miners (I am not one by the way). Some guys have little time to play, and can not meet the demands of a major corp, but by your reconning they are not welcome in the game. Come out to 0.0 to mine stop respawns in high sec. All those comments are stupid and quite honestly prove how cowardly some 0.0 guys are as they have no player targets, well no easy targets so force noobs and miners out of empire and into 0.0 so you can have easy kills.

banannagirl
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.02.22 12:04:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Mobius
eve sze is fine but 3 biggest things to reduce it was
1. jump clones allowed people to move entire length of eve in 1 click

2. wtz thus reducing travel time (i know bm reasoning for it)

3. smuggler gates

now as to how to reduce anything without the forums exploding with omg you destroyed eve. I really can't say because nobody wants to lose any of the above.



Where the smuggler gates ....?

regards
BG

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.02.22 12:21:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Korkoff
Wow totally amazing. I love to here guys in major alliances talk about miners (I am not one by the way). Some guys have little time to play, and can not meet the demands of a major corp, but by your reconning they are not welcome in the game. Come out to 0.0 to mine stop respawns in high sec. All those comments are stupid and quite honestly prove how cowardly some 0.0 guys are as they have no player targets, well no easy targets so force noobs and miners out of empire and into 0.0 so you can have easy kills.


Er... you have no idea what you're talking about.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.02.22 12:22:00 - [82]
 

Originally by: Ioci
Nul sec is not for the faint at heart. Bigger Eve would be great but I would be forced to say, bigger safe sec might be the real answer to any future Eve expacks. Nul sec is in a state right now where you need diplomacy and can't just force your way in but that's to be expected. If they added 90 new systems, they would be gone in a month, alot to the big alliances.


That's why I suggested easy-access, low-value NPC Sov regions. No large alliance will bother with space like that, so it leaves plenty of room for the little guys.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.22 14:31:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
TCAG-3 to G-M4GK and C-PEWN to D4-2XN those are both smuggler gates, I've been here a helluva lot longer than you have so chances are it's you being terribly misinformed. I could go on pointing out all the deep space systems connected to eachother that weren't at some point before Forsaken Ruins but I think you get the picture now.



OOOOHH!! You mean those stargates that look like the gallente ones are on fire, like they're all ruined and beat the dirt but still operational?

If there was some big storyline event in which these formerly hidden gates were revealed, I wasn't aware of it (as said in a previous post, I've been in for 4 months or so). If that's what you're talking about, then I apologize. Your link to the Forsaken Ruins thing didn't mention any gates, though (unless I just missed it 'cause it's 1st thing in the morning lol), but having seen these busted looking gates, I'm willing to take your word on that.

Until now, I just figured it was a bit of eye candy for variety, since we live in 0.0 space with no law other than what we and our neighbors make for ourselves... I didn't know their visual appearance had any RP significance.

That said, you sound like one of the old-heads who rails against any change at all, instead of looking at the possibilities of some changes being good ones. Whether adding more stargates ('cause in the end, that's all they are... they're not hidden, you don't need to scan for 'em, they're on your overview with the rest of the stargates) was a good idea or bad idea, I don't know - I wasn't in EVE then. But what I DO know is there is A LOT of UNUSED space, systems that nobody goes to. There can be 700+ people in Jita's local at any given time, while systems like 9MWZ-B remain perpetually empty. Sure, it's not the best truesec, but it's better than mining/ratting/exploring in Gelfiven isn't it?

Besides, the tone of the OP suggested that he just wants moar spaces plx because he doesn't know how to EVE. I quote:

Originally by: Gar Loken
Personally I think players living in 0.0 are forced into one of 3 decisions:
Live in NPC space - easy to defend, little risk of losing assets. Will still be blobed.
Live out of POS - not so easy to defend, does allow you to keep a very low profile, bigger risk of losing assets. Will still be blobed if found.
Join one of the already established space holding alliances.


He says that if you live in 0.0 you have to live in NPC space, live out of a POS (in non-NPC space, I presume he means) or join an already established alliance.

Well, duh! Of course that's what you have to do. If you're not already established, you have to establish yourself! He says:

Originally by: Gar Loken
Some of you are going "where’s reason 4, starting a space holding alliance" and I think those days are gone unless the size of the EVE universe is increased. There are a LOT of alliances in EVE but how many are space holding, with enough firepower and members to really attempt to hold it if they got attacked? I would bet that only a quarter of them are able to do that and that quarter are the ones that have been running for years and in 0.0 the longest.


He says he can't start a new alliance because he couldn't defend any space he took.

Originally by: Gar Loken
The little guys don’t get a look in as quite rightly the bigger alliances protect their borders so what are the lesser alliances to do? Where in EVE can all these small alliances go to battle it out and try to claim a little space as theirs just like when the drone regions first opened?


The little guys don't get a look in, so what are they to do? GET BIGGER!

I read a lot on these forums... BoB didn't begin with supremacy over Delve. There were other EvE superpowers before them. They grew and took theirs. Goons, Red, IAC, UNL, TCF... grew and took theirs, right? If you want to be the leader of a big alliance, start one and build it from the ground up. Quit crying. I'm done here.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.22 15:12:00 - [84]
 

Those are the ones, they were introduced and uncovered with the fictional piece Forsaken Ruins, CCP actually bothered with some backstory fiction piece back in the day when introducing major changes.

They were introduced as the then alliances complained they had to travel too far for a fight back in the day when there were a lot less people around, this is not true anymore hence the sole purpose for them is void.

I didn't like them then, still don't like them now.

Arachidamia
Minmatar
Matari People's Front
Posted - 2008.02.22 15:13:00 - [85]
 

Increasing the space in eve would not change much.

The simple fact is that alliances want pew pew. And so they'll gank small alliances whenever they can, for easy kills. Because as someone said above... killmails are the holy grail to many people in eve. When you combine this with the fact that alliances typically hold far more space than they actually need, resources wise, it's easy to see how 0.0 can seem "small".

If you added more space to eve, you'd get maybe one or two more big alliances forming there, and then all the existing ones would expand to fill in the remaining space... and you find yourself in the same situation.



cRaNbErRy MuFfInMaN
mUfFiN fAcToRy
Sex Panthers
Posted - 2008.02.22 16:28:00 - [86]
 

Eve has not become to small.

You got probly a thousand unused .4 to .1 systems because there is no benefit to living there atm. So you got systems in 0.0 with 600 people and you got systems in 1.0 with 600 people in them.

motomysz
Nexus Advanced Technologies
Fidelas Constans
Posted - 2008.02.22 17:00:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Taua Roqa
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.



could you please tell more about these smuggler stargates :O? are they just like normal ones are secret and hidden for exploration?





I believe what Danton is referring to is Jump Bridges, which can be anchored at POSes in systems that your alliance holds sovereignty over. These Jump Bridges act as private stargates allowing an alliance that has worked and built its territory and network of jump bridges to establish more secure supply chains, rather than risk every hauler convoy to random gatecamps.

Just like the jump drives on many capital ships, the Jump Bridge has a range of 5 light years and consumes fuel obtained from ice (liquid ozone instead of one of the 4 types of isotopes that capital ship jump drives require).

Jump Bridges are more than mere 'smuggler's gates' as a smuggler is someone who is moving cargo, illegal or otherwise, through an area that he may or may not be allowed to move said cargo through in such a manner that is intended to evade authorities. An RL example would be the 'coyotes' smuggling illegal immigrants across national borders in their vans. An EvE-Online example would be if a player wanted to haul 100 cubic meters of the drug Improved Drop into Jita and used Jump Bridges to bypass the normal stargates. In fact, this is not possible, because a jump bridge can only be anchored on a POS in a system where you hold sovereignty, so they cannot be in lowsec/empire space, nor can they be in npc 0.0.

They are a reward that an alliance must earn the right to use through solid gameplay, savvy diplomacy and successful tactical maneuvering. They should not be removed from the game, they should remain there as a goal for every alliance present and future to be able to work towards. From an RP standpoint, Jump Bridges are a logical presence in a game where players can hold sovereignty over a region - they are able to dictate the placement, accessibility and destination of stargates, albeit to a limited extent.


Good thing you're wrong. Smuggler gates are gates that were added in a while ago connecting far apart systems which were not previously connected.

Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
Posted - 2008.02.22 17:08:00 - [88]
 

POS Jump Bridges were the worst addition to Eve in a long time. Remind me of Plane of Knowledge in Everquest One which ruined that game imo. It should not be easy for Goonswarm, Red Alliance BoB or any other large blob of an alliance types to control huge swatches of space which they don't even use.

In fact I would go as far to say it complete and total bull**** that CCP allows this to go on. Do you want every server to be like the Chinese server where one or two big alliances control everything?!?!

Give us medium and smaller size alliances a chance. Maybe that would help your blob and lag problems too.

benzss
Twisted Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.22 17:45:00 - [89]
 

To the people who want to remove warp to zero: what exactly would this achieve? yeah it might take people a bit longer to get around but my god it was a real pain in the arse until it was removed.

Removing local sounds like fun. But i'm not sure what that'd do to the population of low-sec.

And the OP is quite right, 'new' alliances have very, very little hope of gaining any footholds in 0.0... even a pos in NPC space is likely to be raided by a bored alliance. Not sure that more space will solve this, though, but then again i'm hardly full of ideas.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.02.22 17:49:00 - [90]
 

One more thing to think about:

how is it possible that a solar system feels crowded with only 200 pilots in it?

=> solar systems are too small - not enough "warp to" points, not enough items of interest. Should they be split up into sectors? Imagine a 10x10 grid in each solar system, every single grid having possibly a station, asteroid belts, planets...





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