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Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.02.20 20:52:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: Malcanis
If you want to make eve look bigger, remove local.


Actually you can do that already @ any time. THere is a little button @ the top of your chat window that removes everyone from local.

And yes 0.0 is rether crowded and establishing yourself in 0.0 can be very difficult.
Especially in some regions.

My biggest probelm with 0.0 and the push to send everyone out there is the fact that CCP does NOT allow alliances to totally shead there high sec dependancy. (ie POS's and tradegood items for fuel)

Now if they could truly allow a 0.0 alliance to shed its high sec dependence then they could make some very deep 0.0 regions and EVE could once again become vast.

But some other things would have to happen as well.
Like get rid of alot of the map info unless you control that space.
I should not be able to tell if there is a cyno or the population of a system if I don't control it.
And no this does not mean removing local (this is already a lost cause and a dead subject)


Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.20 20:53:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Gar Loken
Originally by: Havohej
in Omist, mate. Deep 0.0. NOT as easy planting one in that 0.3 system that's one jump into lowsec, not by a long-shot


Actualy it is, in fact its easier as you need the right standings in low sec where was 0.0 you only need standings to the locals so it dont get shot. Logistics are sinch as well.


I said 0.3. You don't need standings for a POS in 0.3. You need standings for a POS in 0.4 or higher. Get your facts right before you argue with trolls.

Your OP was about noob corps who couldn't compete with the big dogs, afford rent from large alliances or take and defend space from incumbent alliances. Corps who want to go out and benefit from 0.0 living without being forced to deal with the problems. EVE is a game where your fun means someone else's misery, because unless you just mine and mission in highsec in an npc corp and never gang with anybody, if you won that means someone else lost.

For that type of corp, which doesn't have a jump freighter or carriers or a jump bridge network to move 100k m3 of cargo 50 jumps into deep 0.0 across territory held by hostiles, neutrals and friendlies alike, no, the logistics are not a 'cinch'.

Are you sure I can't hav ur stuff? Confused

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.20 20:54:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Havohej on 20/02/2008 20:55:07
Originally by: Korizan
Now if they could truly allow a 0.0 alliance to shed its high sec dependence then they could make some very deep 0.0 regions and EVE could once again become vast.

But some other things would have to happen as well.
Like get rid of alot of the map info unless you control that space.
I should not be able to tell if there is a cyno or the population of a system if I don't control it.


I fully endorse this product/service.

Lo3d3R
Mos Eisley Social Club
Posted - 2008.02.20 23:24:00 - [34]
 

EVE got to small imo... so I geuss I agree in some way with the OP.

OwlManAtt
Gallente
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2008.02.21 00:08:00 - [35]
 

I do miss the early 2003 days (yes, gemini...I'm a bit old Smile) where you could go from one end of EVE to the other and not meet anyone at all. The grass is always much greener over yonder (no targets, no one to talk to), but those days really made the vastness of EVE obvious.

It might be nice if they added a ton more regions, but people aren't going to leave the highsec cluster without some really strong incentives.

So Sumi
Posted - 2008.02.21 01:24:00 - [36]
 

I and a few other friends would love and hope to see a new server open for Eve. We would not have any problems starting over and would love to start fresh on a new virgin server.

Fager
Caldari
5 Inch Incorporated
Shadow of xXDEATHXx
Posted - 2008.02.21 02:18:00 - [37]
 

A lowsec/0.0 line between the 4 empires.


This is what we need! Would be awesome fun to trade and do the Industry side with this. As Prices would differ enormusly between the empires. AND THERE WOULD BE REASON TO ENTER LOW SEC - to sell your super rare caldari shuttles in gallente space for mad cash profits! (seriously.. low sec would flourish)
Ofcourse no super choakpoints thou.. pirates shouldnt get it on a silver plattern
- Example: Isogen, not minable in Caldari space afaik... imagine the buyprices.. and theres ****loads of it in minmatar witch i think lacks peroxites (nocxium).

other options:
*Jump Clones needs to be limited. Should only be able to jump to stations with good standing. Not just create one at em. or sumthing :p

*Local/map - beating a dead horse here... (perhaps open up new outer systems, that are so new, the gates there dont support local... and stuff! True 0.0!

*Let me shoot jovians!


P.S if CCP creates a second server with trinity.. i personally feel one of _the_ greatest things about eve would go away... (and yeah i never was to fond of the kina server... but i figured there all farming isk on trinity server anyway.. so meh )

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:12:00 - [38]
 

No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.

Taua Roqa
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:13:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.



could you please tell more about these smuggler stargates :O? are they just like normal ones are secret and hidden for exploration?



Stork DK
Minmatar
Risky eXplosion
Death or Glory
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:23:00 - [40]
 

Remove local chat.
Introduce radar.

Problem solved.

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:29:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Taua Roqa
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.



could you please tell more about these smuggler stargates :O? are they just like normal ones are secret and hidden for exploration?





No such luck, they're just the ones that make insanely long jumps possible, effectively shrinking EVE, they were put in to facilitate alliance warfare when the server population was a 5th of what it is now.

Pan Crastus
Anti-Metagaming League
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:31:00 - [42]
 

a) yes, EVE is too small now, the population grew quite a bit

b) people could build more stations in some more quiet 0.0 systems, but why bother when one of the top 10 blob alliances will just go and take them?

CCP should think long and hard about this.


UGWidowmaker
Caldari
freelancers inc
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:40:00 - [43]
 

eve was once big... but now its actually really small.. old school players simply dont get the feelingof a big universe anymore.. if ccp was smart they would double the amount of systems, remove warp to 0. remove local. well remove the option to see who is in local, not the option to chat in local. make capitals WAY more exspensive to build. add a speciel mineral to tech 2 wich u can only get in 00, in random place, not like merc.. make it even more hard... then eve would maybe rock again... atm i only log on to change skills, awaiting somethin kewl to happend so eve will be fun again...

UGWidowmaker
Caldari
freelancers inc
Imperial 0rder
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:42:00 - [44]
 

ps. let the jove start atack us all... bout time somethin happends ffs.

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2008.02.21 16:46:00 - [45]
 

It's not that Eve has gotten small. It's just that the population density is an exponential curve with a very long tail.

A few systems get more crowded, most systems don't change a bit. You see those empty systems?

EVE needs it's own version of suburbia.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 17:35:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Alz Shado
You see those empty systems?


EvE isn't 'overcrowded' and it hasn't become 'small'. The 30 thousand players online at any given time have all CHOSEN to mass in only 15% or so of the existing systems. There are HUNDREDS of systems with nobody in them. EvE isn't SMALL. You CHOOSE to see it that way. EvE doesn't need more space. If the only way for you to be able to perceive 'vastness' is "flying 20 jumps without seeing anybody else" then go play a single-player game. EvE is an MMO. For those of you who don't know what that means, it stands for Massively Multi-player Online.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 17:40:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Pan Crastus
b) people could build more stations in some more quiet 0.0 systems, but why bother when one of the top 10 blob alliances will just go and take them?


This goes back to my first reply in this thread, where I blasted the OP 'cause he's crying for "moar systems dat us lil' guyz can take over an we dont haz to fight wit establisht peepz k plx?"

If you think you're ready to form an alliance and go out into some apparently quiet and undeveloped corner of 0.0 and put up an outpost and do business, then be ready to defend it. If it gets taken from you, then you have learned that you were not prepared. Try again later when you're better able to actually succeed. Why do you think the learning curve should become less steep and less expensive as you grow stronger and richer? If you're doing something new and you screw it up, you should eat the cost. CCP doesn't need to add new empty space just for people like the OP who find the game too tough now because they weren't here from the beginning.

Besides, it's like you said: the top 10 blob alliances will just go and take them anyway even if CCP DOES put new regions and systems in.

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2008.02.21 17:47:00 - [48]
 

Originally by: Havohej
Originally by: Alz Shado
You see those empty systems?


EvE isn't 'overcrowded' and it hasn't become 'small'. The 30 thousand players online at any given time have all CHOSEN to mass in only 15% or so of the existing systems. There are HUNDREDS of systems with nobody in them. EvE isn't SMALL. You CHOOSE to see it that way. EvE doesn't need more space. If the only way for you to be able to perceive 'vastness' is "flying 20 jumps without seeing anybody else" then go play a single-player game. EvE is an MMO. For those of you who don't know what that means, it stands for Massively Multi-player Online.


Thanks for reiterating my point.

After careful consideration, here is what is needed to establish more people in uncrowded systems:

1) More NPC stations in lowsec with medical services and level 4 agents together.


Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 17:52:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Taua Roqa
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
No, they just need to remove the smuggler gates connecting the deep space systems with other regions deep space.



could you please tell more about these smuggler stargates :O? are they just like normal ones are secret and hidden for exploration?





I believe what Danton is referring to is Jump Bridges, which can be anchored at POSes in systems that your alliance holds sovereignty over. These Jump Bridges act as private stargates allowing an alliance that has worked and built its territory and network of jump bridges to establish more secure supply chains, rather than risk every hauler convoy to random gatecamps.

Just like the jump drives on many capital ships, the Jump Bridge has a range of 5 light years and consumes fuel obtained from ice (liquid ozone instead of one of the 4 types of isotopes that capital ship jump drives require).

Jump Bridges are more than mere 'smuggler's gates' as a smuggler is someone who is moving cargo, illegal or otherwise, through an area that he may or may not be allowed to move said cargo through in such a manner that is intended to evade authorities. An RL example would be the 'coyotes' smuggling illegal immigrants across national borders in their vans. An EvE-Online example would be if a player wanted to haul 100 cubic meters of the drug Improved Drop into Jita and used Jump Bridges to bypass the normal stargates. In fact, this is not possible, because a jump bridge can only be anchored on a POS in a system where you hold sovereignty, so they cannot be in lowsec/empire space, nor can they be in npc 0.0.

They are a reward that an alliance must earn the right to use through solid gameplay, savvy diplomacy and successful tactical maneuvering. They should not be removed from the game, they should remain there as a goal for every alliance present and future to be able to work towards. From an RP standpoint, Jump Bridges are a logical presence in a game where players can hold sovereignty over a region - they are able to dictate the placement, accessibility and destination of stargates, albeit to a limited extent.

decoherance
Gallente
40 htz
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:05:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: ***er
A lowsec/0.0 line between the 4 empires.


This is what we need! Would be awesome fun to trade and do the Industry side with this. As Prices would differ enormusly between the empires. AND THERE WOULD BE REASON TO ENTER LOW SEC - to sell your super rare caldari shuttles in gallente space for mad cash profits! (seriously.. low sec would flourish)
Ofcourse no super choakpoints thou.. pirates shouldnt get it on a silver plattern
- Example: Isogen, not minable in Caldari space afaik... imagine the buyprices.. and theres ****loads of it in minmatar witch i think lacks peroxites (nocxium).




This

Deathtouche
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:26:00 - [51]
 

I think so with more players joining up new regions should be added, More space please.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:34:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: Deathtouche
I think so with more players joining up new regions should be added, More space please.


Not this.

Zaerlorth Maelkor
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:37:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Zaerlorth Maelkor on 21/02/2008 18:38:03
What I think would be a good idea is to open up a different empire region disjoint from the current one. Only access is through a large portion of 0.0.

Then diversify mats and resources so that some important things are available in one empire controlled region and some in the other, so that trade between the two regions through the periless 0.0 is a necessity!

That could really spark some interesting fights over the pipes and it would make trade much more interesting and dynamical.

Forum Joe
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:43:00 - [54]
 

I wondered for some time if "stealing" a system or two from an alliance would be possible. From what I saw : it is not. Several reasons :

- "What for?" : Most 0.0 systems are just full of... nothing. Not even worth losing 1 Billion for.

- "The Hammer effect !" : When you are the weakest, the amount of loss you take and damage you make to your ennemy is exponentialy related to the ratio of power. You have 50% their strenght? You will lose 4 times more, thus inflicting 1/4th of what you lose. 10% their strenght? You will lose 100 times more, thus inflicting 1/100th of what you lose. 0.01% their strenght? Wich is the case with "Alliance Of Alliances of Allied Allies" : The damage you take will be 100% of whatever you have in space, and the only damage you will inflict on your ennemy is the cost of the ammo they will use to slaugther you.

- "Saturday night fever !" : You *may* achieve local superiority in a system or two during most of the time of the week. You *may* be able to operate normally in this system 50% of the time. But don't fool yourself. Don't try to build anything to claim it as yours, because, on saturday evening everything will be destroyed by a fleet.

- "MY PRECIOUS!" : In order to claim a system as yours, you will have to fight, to damage your opponents. The reasoning is that, at some point, your opponents will compare the loss they take, and the value of what you have taken, and may decide it isn't worth it, and sign peace. Well : no. Take a 5 (you) versus 7(them) fight : you lose 5, they lose 3. But you will give your opponents something they consider as the most valuable item in EvE : killmails. If you fight like mad, accepting a higher loss ratio, you will not deter your ennemys from coming at you, you will become the new "Disneyland Of Killmails - come get yours!".

- "EvE real Doomsday Weapon" : The only way to win such a war is to use the "L33t" weapon of EvE : Boredom. Park alts in your POS not moving one inch. Never give your ennemy a target to lock on. Fill their systems with perma cloacked alts. Force them to camp gates the most you can, giving them a few velators per day to grind their teeth on. On saturday morning, unanchor and vanish your assets in logged off characters. Don't give the allied grunts any reason to hate you. As a rule, the basic allied grunt will give up fighting for a system if all that means is boredom for him. Most important : DO NOT TALK -NEVER- to the grunts ! If you can manage this one month, you will then be able to start your next offensive :

- "EvE is PvP! Pityfull versus Punks!" Forums are your friends. Think of it, in what kind of mood will a grunt camping you without ever being able to get a lock on you be? Use this against them. You cannot beat them on the battlefield, beat them on the forums. Remember that in EvE an alliance is all about numbers, not quality. A lot of your ennemies are grunts, fighting against people they don't know for reasons they don't care about, under orders of people they often never chatted with personnaly. Manipulate them. Convince them that this fight is not worth it. At one point, not seeing any action, and seeing their worst grunts covering their own alliance of s**t on the forums, the alliance leaders *may* decice to give up and not actively fight you anymore. "So we win?". Sadly : no, because...

- "WE WON SERVER!" When you force players to band together because of game mechanism, when those force players to the "If you are not with us, you are against us" mentality, then you create a scenario where, one day or another, a group will become large enought to crush any opponent, and will have, de facto, won the server. If your intention is to get yourself a system to call yours, you will automatically end up as "red" for hundreds, if not thousands or tens of thousands of other players.

What is left if don't have a grunt mentality?

PvE:

- Player versus environment.
- Player versus "Everyone else that lives out there" (player pirates)

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.02.21 18:58:00 - [55]
 



The most common reasons given for not going in to 0.0 are
(1) Big alliances have already claimed it all
(2) only a very few chokepoints which are usually camped

Therefore:
More NPC 0.0, with lots of empire access points. 2 extra regions per 0.0 empire (1 "above", 1 "below") each one, lots of NPC stations in most of the constellations, but plenty with only 1 or none, NPC sovereignty so there's no POS warfare sov grind, and an above-average frequency of exploration sites, but with ore and rats of low to medium value.

This would provide 8 new regions, with plenty of scope for small gang PvP rather than multi-mega-coalition lag-fests, and a great opportunity for small, new corps to give 0.0 a try.

Shintai
Gallente
Arx Io Orbital Factories
Arx Io
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:10:00 - [56]
 

I have played since EvEs start. And yes it is too small. I would also like to see some factional wars. Like Gallente/Minmatar vs Caldari/Amarr.

EvE was a much more wast and spacy place in the start. Now its more like the central station during rushhour at almost everywhere.

Vrizuh
VTECHS
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:34:00 - [57]
 

This is not a suggestion but a question because I love seeing how different people predict outcomes.

What would happen if there were more outposts in 0.0? I know a tonne are being under utilised as it is, but what if they fell easier and were much cheaper to build?

My line of thought is that an alliance couldn't spread out too far or else they'd fall prey to guerilla tactics (just losing 1 outpost would have the potential to create huge headaches).

I also wonder how many new outposts are being constructed. Was it all built pre-bob war or has expansion continued without much comment? I can't imagine putting down that kind of infrastructure in a world with cynos and large alliances all over the place.

Hmm, I guess thats what the NPC regions are like. Never lived there myself.

Please note, I comment only as myself and have absolutely nothing to do with present alliance. In process of moving corps atm.

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:57:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: decoherance
Originally by: ***er
A lowsec/0.0 line between the 4 empires.


This is what we need! Would be awesome fun to trade and do the Industry side with this. As Prices would differ enormusly between the empires. AND THERE WOULD BE REASON TO ENTER LOW SEC - to sell your super rare caldari shuttles in gallente space for mad cash profits! (seriously.. low sec would flourish)
Ofcourse no super choakpoints thou.. pirates shouldnt get it on a silver plattern
- Example: Isogen, not minable in Caldari space afaik... imagine the buyprices.. and theres ****loads of it in minmatar witch i think lacks peroxites (nocxium).




This


Go live in the Drone regions. No mexallon ore + compression nerf = a fun factor on the level of a kick to the balls.

Havohej
Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics
Posted - 2008.02.21 19:57:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Shintai
I have played since EvEs start. And yes it is too small. I would also like to see some factional wars. Like Gallente/Minmatar vs Caldari/Amarr.

EvE was a much more wast and spacy place in the start. Now its more like the central station during rushhour at almost everywhere.


Either contract all your stuff over to Havohej and be done with it or stop crying for CCP to add more space.

The fact of the matter is there are literally hundreds of systems in 0.0 where nobody is at right now, nobody even roams through them 'cause they're so out of the way. If you want to enjoy an EVE where you never ever see any other player on local, use your map settings and go find one.

The fact that you're here whining on the forums with the rest of these common-sense-challenged players testifies to the fact that even if they DO add systems, you won't go to them. You're not even using the space that's already there.

Alz Shado
EverFlow
Posted - 2008.02.21 20:04:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Vrizuh
This is not a suggestion but a question because I love seeing how different people predict outcomes.

What would happen if there were more outposts in 0.0? I know a tonne are being under utilised as it is, but what if they fell easier and were much cheaper to build?

The problem is that there are lots of outposts in 0.0, maybe too many imho, but they're almost all in NBSI territory. If there's anything an alliance guards fiercely, it's many-billion-dollar sitting targets.

The lack of medical services in low-sec is probably one of the most unnoticed flaws in the game. Seriously, the only point to a station without medical services in a place where PEOPLE ARE ACTIVELY TRYING TO KILL YOU is safety. Dock in station and log off or wait them out.

If you don't have an updated clone already, there's even LESS of a likelyhood of going out to muster some kind of counterattack.

And while they're at it, they should put more lv4 agents in these stations to attract carebears for the pirates of lowsec to hunt. Then it's a nice full circle.


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