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Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.26 23:01:00 - [91]
 

well as stated above in this thread the trust problem is for trader, for exemple i have on my various accounts more than 1000 orders and some good trade route between system, with this tool if the operator Is not 'regular' he can check them and take the trades route for himself then i'm ****ed and must start again to find new trade route (it can take a lot of hours of play to find one)
otherway i'm a great supporter of this tool, and i'm very frustrated to be unable to use it without taking enormous risks , then i dont use it and each time you ad feature (like ships) it make me more more sad Wink
make a deal with chribba and make ppl pay for using it, and share profit with chribba (or any other trusted third party) Smile

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.28 12:13:00 - [92]
 

hello zothike

yeah, i am working on that (with chribba). but it takes some time. i hope to be able to offer a solution within the next few weeks...

cheerios, woddel

Melor Rend
Posted - 2008.02.28 12:27:00 - [93]
 

Originally by: Ilea Celentay
Information really is only so valuable, there are so many more skills needed to even use such information to your advantage.


Not trying to badmouth anyone here or claim the service isn't legitimate but even if you only provide your API-key the person in possession can get huge amounts of information about your in-game self.

Who needs spies when you've got a DB full of API-keys to access wallets, market transactions, corp- and alliance membership etc. of any character on the account?

Again - I'm not claiming the homepage is a data mining / spy site.. it's just that the risk is pretty large.. even with the API-key system.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.29 22:52:00 - [94]
 

hello all

tiny feature update:
the skills-page now shows when unlearned skills can be learned and if not, which prerequisites are still missing (prerequisites that are met are blanked out, so you see what's missing in one glance). screenshot on the about-page will be updated in a few minutes.

cheerios, woddel

Alanee'a Unakarakta
Posted - 2008.03.01 02:16:00 - [95]
 

i didnt give my mains (or any other chars) api to my own corp.

i rather lost the corp forum access than my privacy.

your giving one man all the info that matters in eve.

-ala



Jair Aequanimitas
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.03.01 02:26:00 - [96]
 

If your not worried about someone "mining" your information then this is a great tool.... I like it i use it I enjoy it.... Full version... Its cool. Just don't use it if your all worried like a lot of these people.

Alanee'a Unakarakta
Posted - 2008.03.01 02:33:00 - [97]
 

im not worried about my private info, im worried that one person controls it all.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.01 09:09:00 - [98]
 

hello alanee'a

what do you exactly mean with 'one person controlling it all'. i mean, i get the essence, but do you rather want to have a whole team 'knowing about it' (IF i would look at the data - see privacy statement)? there are no brainless programming drones invented yet... :) at least not that i would have heard of them... would make my real life job obsolete, though...

smiles, woddel.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.01 10:31:00 - [99]
 

Edited by: woddel on 01/03/2008 10:32:06
oh, and another point: why would the corporation you are in want to have your api keys? this i think would also worry me too quite a bit, as to the close proximity of the corporation to the respecitve player - that really suggests possible big brother behaviour of the corp towards the player.

eve-commander, or me as the sole operator, are completely unrelated and independent. there is a very very low chance that we (you and me) would ever meet in this universe or cross our paths. so, even if i WOULD dishonour my posted privacy statement, there would be little or most likely no use for your information - as a fair noob (third month now), i am usually way below the food chain and possibilites of more experienced players.

this, evidently, is way different from the corporation we are in and have daily business with.

cheerios, woddel.

Alanee'a Unakarakta
Posted - 2008.03.01 15:58:00 - [100]
 

sorry if i sounded offensive, the vodka got me last night!

fly safe!

-ala

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.06 10:35:00 - [101]
 

hello all

now is the time to try out eve commander. the free trial period will end in about a week... after that, all accounts are converted into trial-accounts (14 days). when you register now, you get another week for free... :)

prices have not been determined yet - it will be some moderate amount of isk. suggestions are welcome.

cheerios, woddel

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.03.06 14:37:00 - [102]
 

Hmm
I agree with the others that giving a full API is for sure not secure,especially if there is a subscription fee.
But I may give the limited version a try

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.06 21:07:00 - [103]
 

hello ikki phoenix

i don't quite understand how asking for a token (where the price has not been decided upon yet) for my work should make it less secure. i rather think otherwise: clearly stating that eve commander has that very specific 'commercial' interest should show that there are no backchannel deals made with the data entrusted to me. like in eve and the real world: nothing is really ever for free. i just don't want to have to depend on banner advertising to pay for the server capacity and some of the time used to program this, where only but isk sellers would show up like on eve-central. that is not in the spirit of the game. eve is business. eve commander is mine within that.

cheerios, woddel.

Ikki Phoenix
Gallente
United Imperial Fleet
Posted - 2008.03.07 00:30:00 - [104]
 

Edited by: Ikki Phoenix on 07/03/2008 00:44:47
Ok,I just signed up for the limited edition and I just tried the full version.
I like what I am seeing so far
A few bugs and suggestions:

1.The character page shows nothing
2.I think you can understand that many people are not enthusiastic about using the full key,especially if it reveals corporation and alliance things.That is just basic security.
What I would suggest is for you to create an option which allows the user to select which features he wants to activate.Like if I have the full edition,I wouldn't want for sensitive information to be released.You see what I mean?

Also, I thought I read somewhere that the full API gave corp info.I didn't see this anywhere

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.07 06:43:00 - [105]
 

hello. thanks that you like it so far. i can not prevent the full api from providing corp. infos - this is a matter for ccp to resolve (like differentiate between 'limited', 'full personal' and a new 'corporation' api key). but for security reasons that also matter to me, no corp. infos is actually imported from the xml files provided by the ccp api and saved in the database. hence, there is no info to be seen on eve commander.

cheerios, woddel

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.08 22:52:00 - [106]
 

hello all

some changes have been made to the 'ships' and 'assets by station' page: ships now really shows all your ships (bugfix) and you can now also name them like in the game for easier recognition (the api does not transmit ship names). assets by station now groups items by containers when they where placed in one.

fly safe! woddel

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.10 06:42:00 - [107]
 

hello all.

sorry, i somehow broke the registration form yesterday. thanks for the folks who sent me an email telling me. but i was away in the evening and only got to fix it now. it should work again... :)

cheerios, woddel.

codex09
Minmatar
StarFleet Enterprises
BricK sQuAD.
Posted - 2008.03.10 07:57:00 - [108]
 

Firstly your picture isn't showing up because it does that until you have been playing for a certain amount of time. (I think it is a month or something like that)

I am a software developer and can't understand why you are so dead set against allowing other people to see your code. I mean it is fair enough you might want to make money out of it, but using the excuse that it requires a specialised environment really makes me wonder what you are really up to.

As people have mentioned the information that is made available to you by giving your program the full API access key can be used to do many things and I personally hope that anyone that gives you their full API key understands exactly what they are doing because it will be a real shame to have to come out in one of their posts in the future and say well you should have taken more notice to what the majority of people were saying.

Chribba has said that your specialised environment is not a problem so why don't you show people that you are trustworthy by allowing someone that won't go giving your code out a chance to have a good run through of it.

Now as for your privacy statement it carries about as much weight as a feather in a hurricane. I have personally seen a lot of these statements that were written by scammers and when it all comes down to it they were used to fool people into a false sense of security, so you will understand if people take your privacy statement as just some words that really have no meaning.

Having said all that I wish you lots of luck if you are a person that is being open and honest for the right reasons, but you must understand that in a game like EVE information about players, Corps, Alliances etc etc can be very handy to have.

Trust is something that is earned over time and it is time that will also tell whether what you are doing is on the level or not.


woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.10 09:43:00 - [109]
 

Edited by: woddel on 10/03/2008 09:51:01
hello codex09

my answer to your remarks as followed:

- if you would mind looking at my profile, i'm in eve for more than about 2.5 months now. that i don't have a forum-image yet, well that is up to the image server of ccp. and it proofs or means absolutely nothing. see post #86 & #87 about that.

- giving away the source code to anyone has nothing to do with security. you, as a software developer, should know that the code that could be shown to people does not necessarily have to be the code that is actually on the server. like a cleaned up version. so this proofs absolutely nothing. i was thinking about making for example the import routines public. but as said, it would not really do any good to establish trust. and of course, which is my right, i want to protect my intellectual property. but if somebody wants to have them (the import routines), they can write me an email. post #73 for more.

- i am NOT dead set about giving away the code. the comment in my very first posts concerns the fact that eve commander is not a client installable software like evemon.

- i am also discussing the option of corporations being able to buy the code for some isk to put on their own servers in a closed environment. if you are interested (as some others are), write me an email. see post #79

- i AM in contact with chribba. we are discussing about putting the page on his servers. it's not that i refuse to that - i try to respect the wishes of some members of the community. but i must also say that i have not heard from chribba in about two weeks. i am awaiting an answer from him concerning some important technical and legal questions. i don't blame him though - i guess he has a lot on his mind too with other work.

- this comes back to the first part, where chribba could do a code review. i would not mind him doing that. but this is his time and his decision. i can not force him to do that nor put pressure on him to speed things up. if you know chribba so well, talk to him... :)

- and last : infos about corps and alliances are not imported into eve commander. tell ccp to make a personal full api key without corp infos. don't tell me: i can't change the way the api works.

cheerios, woddel.



Digital Solaris
Posted - 2008.03.10 11:54:00 - [110]
 

Originally by: woddel
Edited by: woddel on 15/02/2008 19:42:19
Edited by: woddel on 15/02/2008 19:23:27
Originally by: Poreuomai

I'm simply giving you feedback, explaining why I won't register.



well, i don't really care why you don't want to register (or even if at all), because i already know: it's been discussed enough upthread... there is no need to mess this thread up any further with such posts... :) i hope that also counts for future posts of the same nature. some of you are so paranoic conspiratists, i almost feel sorry for you... :)


This is where you fall flat on your face. You *suggest* people to register with their full API keys, people express how uncomfortable they are with that and after much complaining coming from yourself, you say 'fine' and release a limited version of the utility. And now, you mock people that expects the worst?

Is it within your mental capacity to grasp why you fell flat on your face? If not, I do feel sorry for you.

Soulja
Caldari
Special Branch
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:22:00 - [111]
 

Hi Guys,
I have read a lot (not all) of this post and I haven't seen this suggested so apologies if it has.

As a lot of people are concerned with giving out 'sensitive' information that the full API key give access too and that most people only trust those directly affiliated with CCP or Chribba I propose that some sort of proxy, written by Chribba (or someone that Chribba rubber stamps) be used to access the data.

The user would have to register an API key with the proxy, something simple like user name/password mapped to an API key.
You would use the user name/password combo to register with things like the OP has made.

As the OP does not have you API key requests have to be made through the proxy, the proxy can veto requests for sensitive information.

This is a very rough outline, there are some obvious features that i haven't bothered outlining.

Let me know what you think.
(P.S. If someone decides to do this off the back of my suggestion credit for the idea would be nice Laughing)

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:24:00 - [112]
 

Edited by: woddel on 10/03/2008 12:50:13
hello digital solaris

well, maybe i felt a little tired of the discussion at that time i wrote this. but in essence, it is still like this:
- i programmed a tool for myself on my intranet
- friends said "hey, that's cool. i want that too".
- i thought : "ok, that could be of some use for them and the eve community"
- i reprogrammed most of it to make it multi-user capable etc. ps: many many hours of work...
- i put the plattform on my server and let users try it out.
- i know it's not easy with the api keys. but there is nothing i can do about it except for what's being done as posted in my last message one up.
- where i disagree with you: i don't make people (or suggest them to) sign up: this is a decision each and everyone of you is fairly capable of doing by him- or herself: i offer a tool and let you use it.
- if you don't trust me and think i'm a bad, evil and a scam, so let it be. and no, i am not asking anybody to leave eve because of that and give me their stuff... :)
- i just believe it is not fair to continously flame somebody else's work the writer has not seen and knows nothing about it's background (i'm not talking about you specifically now).
- but i keep my spirit up and try to answer your concerns one by one.
- but i clearly don't try to make everything perfect for everybody. that is and will not ever be possible. even with the help of chribba. i understand so much of human nature.
- there are a few hundred subscribers so far. they made up their mind in trusting me, use the service on a regular basis and seem to be happy about it. so, i can't be all that wrong that everybody thinks i am a bad person and try to scam you.

:) woddel

UPDATED: for the record: so far, 14.8% of the users use the limited key. the rest (85.1%) uses the full key.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:26:00 - [113]
 

hi soulja

chribba already brought that thought to me. he seems to be working on it, but i have no idea of a timeframe of a release. if it is finished and works, i will have no trouble integrating it into eve commander. but you have to ask him about the status of that project.

cheerios, woddel.

Soulja
Caldari
Special Branch
Phalanx Alliance
Posted - 2008.03.10 12:28:00 - [114]
 

Cool, it just seemed like a pretty obvious answer to the problems raised. Glad something is being done. Good luck with the app.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.11 20:52:00 - [115]
 

crappy crap... registration was still down somehow. i guess i am having a little bit too many open construction sites... :) i tested it again twice and it really should work now. sorry again for the inconveniences and thanks for the emails.

cheerios, woddel.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.14 17:26:00 - [116]
 

hello pilots!

after quite some trouble after installing the trinity 1.1 boost patch, the ccp api gateway was down for a few days. this afternoon, it started to come up again and by now, it seems to be fully available again. so, eve commander should fully work again. thanks for the patience!

some more cheerfull news, at least for me:
eve commander is now officially released and the beta phase has ended. for all registered users: check out the new partnerprogram where you can make some isk by recommending eve commander to your friends or whoever comes across your homepage when you put a link to eve commander on it... :)

fly safe! woddel

Nisd
Amarr
Nasgul Collective
Cascade Probable
Posted - 2008.03.18 16:00:00 - [117]
 

Okay i would just like to say that i use it, with a full key, and i think it works great. Got nothing but good experience with it :P

Just thought that there should be some thing positive in here.......

Btw, i really love it

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.03.23 15:22:00 - [118]
 

hello CEOs and corporate magnats

eve commander (a webbased application that shows player information like assets, transactions, market orders, skills, ships etc using the api interface) has received a lot of attention from all sides (see original forum thread for more info and the discussion) and i have been contacted by several corporation leaders who asked if they could host a copy of eve commander on their own servers for use by their members to keep their sensitive information in house.

well, it can be done soon... :) information about the corporate edition can be found here. it should be available in a few weeks and i am now interested in feedback, ideas and comments.

cheerios, woddel

Absolutor
Caldari
Canis Industries Ltd
Posted - 2008.03.28 12:01:00 - [119]
 

Hello Woddel

Thanks for making this program! I really love it!! Even as a new player it is very useful to keep track of my stuff. And yes, I am using the full code. Keep it going!

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.04.04 13:04:00 - [120]
 

hia absolutor. thanks... :)

and yes. finally: i got my forum pic. so the ones that mistrusted me because i did not have one can now be happy... :)


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