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Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2008.02.03 18:07:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 03/02/2008 18:08:02
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?


I have to agree...

OP: Im sorry. Maybe your site is fine and all, but honestly..

1. Someone without character picture
2. Someone who dont know Chribba.
3. Someone who requires your full API code..

I am deeply sorry, but I think I will steer away from this for now..


woddel warrior
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.02.03 18:33:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?
##

yeah, that really makes me really bad, only because i am fairly new to the community and donīt know all that many people yet outside of eve university. great argument there... :)

besides, i expanded the beta userbasis due to the demand to 100.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 18:42:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: woddel on 03/02/2008 18:56:37
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 03/02/2008 18:08:02
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?


I have to agree...

OP: Im sorry. Maybe your site is fine and all, but honestly..

1. Someone without character picture
2. Someone who dont know Chribba.
3. Someone who requires your full API code..

I am deeply sorry, but I think I will steer away from this for now..




- i have no idea why my picture does not work. i am surely not the only one with that problem.
- read my previous post
- i do NOT require the code. you CAN submit it when you believe i can be trusted or you think the benefit of the page is greater than a possible risk. else, just ignore the site and go and do some pvp noobie bashing to calm down.

i am a bit dissapointed of having this discussion. one gets the feeling only folks who have been in here for 5 years are allowed to contribute to the community and before not like god says one is ok, he is treated like some ****bag. if somebody else wants to spend hours and hours of work to make everything better and safer, i invite you first. read the api manual first, though to see what full api keys are needed for.

Niccolado Starwalker
Gallente
Shadow Templars
Posted - 2008.02.03 18:46:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 03/02/2008 18:46:40
Originally by: woddel
Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker
Edited by: Niccolado Starwalker on 03/02/2008 18:08:02
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?


I have to agree...

OP: Im sorry. Maybe your site is fine and all, but honestly..

1. Someone without character picture
2. Someone who dont know Chribba.
3. Someone who requires your full API code..

I am deeply sorry, but I think I will steer away from this for now..




- i have no idea why my picture does not work. i am surely not the only one with that problem.
- read my previous post
- i do NOT require the code. you CAN submit it when you believe i can be trusted or you think the benefit of the page is greater than a possible risk. else, just ignore the site and go and do some pvp noobie bashing to calm down.

i am a bit dissapointed of having this discussion. one gets the feeling only folks who have been in here for 5 years are allowed to contribute to the community and before not like god says one is ok, he is treated like some ****bag. if somebody else wants to spend hours and hours of work to make everything better and saver, i invite you first. read the api manual first, though to see what full api keys are needed for.



Well, if it helps making you feel a little better, I would not give my full API key to anyone, with the possible exception of Chribba I think. Wink


jam6549
Via Crucis Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.03 19:18:00 - [35]
 

rule numero uno of EVE Online: trust no one but yourself

Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.03 20:22:00 - [36]
 

Yes too bad giving API infos Is risky, coz this program is really cool, if it is implemented in a more Securised way (trusted member) would prolly use it

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.02.03 20:46:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: woddel warrior
Originally by: An Anarchyyt
This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?
##

yeah, that really makes me really bad, only because i am fairly new to the community and donīt know all that many people yet outside of eve university. great argument there... :)

besides, i expanded the beta userbasis due to the demand to 100.


It does, Chribba is the single most important person here who doesn't have blue or red bars around their posts.

So, in this thread, no Chribba support, plus a Dev post reminding people what giving out the full-API entails = Nope.

And it really isn't a surprise to anyone in Eve that there are many stupid people who would be easily willing to give all their information out. But then again, these are the same people who fall for credit card scams.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.02.03 21:51:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: woddel
i am a bit dissapointed of having this discussion. one gets the feeling only folks who have been in here for 5 years are allowed to contribute to the community and before not like god says one is ok, he is treated like some ****bag. if somebody else wants to spend hours and hours of work to make everything better and safer, i invite you first. read the api manual first, though to see what full api keys are needed for.


Some people here may be a bit blunt, but they are trying to make a point. Being able to code something is one thing, but it's just the start. Getting others to use it is the important part. EVE is a harsh games and the most important thing a player has in this game is his reputation. Scammers have made billions and billions of isk by misleading people and there are malicious players who are trying to replicate - or surpass - the success of those scammers.

New players can definitely contribute to the community, but people will be very suspicious of scams. Of course older players can scam too, but they usually have a reputation they care about - if it's a good reputation - or which warns people not to trust them - if it's a bad reputation. Therefore older players are less likely to scam, but even they will often not be trusted on their word. Only a select few well-known players will be trusted on their word (which enables Chribba to offer his "Secure 3rd party service").

Bottom line is, if you want your service to be widely used you have three options:
(1) Establish a reputation - this will take years and gets more difficult the harder you try;
(2) Collaborate with a trusted party, or at least get someone to endorse your service;
(3) Provide an open-source program.

I really think your website is great but I - and probably many others - will not use it unless at least one of the above criteria is met. It's nothing personal, it's just that I want to minimize the risk of being scammed Smile

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.07 22:22:00 - [39]
 

hello all

despite some discussions (see above), i also got a lot of positive feedback and the userbase is growing. so, i believe i am on the right track after all and the following features where added:

- assets by station now show gross volume (m3) and volume by type (so you know what type of hauler you need to use to get all that stuff)
- assets now show regional names to the stations (for those that keep forgetting where everything is)
- account settings (you can now change password, keys and regional settings)
- added wallet journal (to complete that too)

future additions will include:
- time difference since last item bought or sold in market orders ('market heat')
- analysis tools with graphs
- online help
- multi language (german for sure for starters)
- some sort of 'light version' for the limited api key set (of course limiting what can be shown to character info and skills)

thanks for all supporters and comments i got: every feedback is constructive (it being positive or cautious). i will try to address the issue of trusting me your api keys some more: for that i will attempt to work something out with some the well known guys in here. just don't ask me yet of what it will be and when it will be implemented: i don't know yet... :)

one thing though: i came to the conclusion from the above discussions that eve-commander.com is not the right thing for the 'big' characters in here with their corporations and stations: this data also seems to be accessible with full keys and i can not do anything about that. i accept that they are very very guarded about giving that information away (which is correct). maybe ccp could create some 'medium' level keys with character data only (assets, transactions etc) and leave all corporate stuff out.

for all other 'regular' users (i guess like 95%), eve-commander.com is safe according to the privacy statement issued on the page.

have fun and fly safe!

woddel

Lucia Warbler
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.02.07 23:00:00 - [40]
 

Hmm, interesting. This could be just the thing for me as for some infuriating reason Evemon stopped working on my computer... Confused

Plus this looks like something I could use to categorize what assets I have better, not to mention checking how my stuff sells without logging all the time.

Haakelen
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.02.08 00:40:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Haakelen on 08/02/2008 00:43:22
I'd join your service in a heartbeat if (as mentioned above), full API keys of directors didn't reveal corporation information. Once CCP seperates director/corp information into a separate key, I'm sure a lot of people would be more open to using your service. Or if they never add such utility, y'know, there's still Chribba. It is very impressive, and looks awesome. You should be proud of it.

Nozomi nrvqsr
Gensokyo
Posted - 2008.02.08 01:44:00 - [42]
 

A solution could be a new api key, without extrem sensitive informations in it (i.e. pos info & co).

Please CCP ? :3

Zothike
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2008.02.08 14:55:00 - [43]
 

I would be interested to have A CCP representative opinion about this tool

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.08 14:59:00 - [44]
 

Hello again to everybody.

ok, it's done: eve commander now features a 'limited edition' for which your limited api keys will suffice.

of course, the information that can be pulled and displayed will be reduced to character info and skill training. this is not because i want to make you use the full edition, but simply because with the limited api key, this information can not be pulled from ccp's servers.

this expansion will make eve commander accessible to all folks who can't or don't want to provide full api keys. maybe they get a taste for it then... :)

i hope this covers your expectations... :)

woddel

LtNelson
Frogs of Armageddon
Posted - 2008.02.08 15:05:00 - [45]
 

The more I read this thread, the more it seems like a rather good scam.

Just partner up with Chribba ffs. Chribba is the only person in the EVE universe 99% of the EVE player base will trust with anything.

Your comments about people being untrusting just proves the fact that you're far too new to be trusted. This is EVE, trust isn't part of the game.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.08 15:09:00 - [46]
 

i know. i am now fully aware about this problem. i guess i was a bit to eager in the beginning. but ok, i'm learning... :)

i am in contact with chribba to check out what can be done to accredit the project. i will keep you posted on what happens there.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.15 08:44:00 - [47]
 

hello all.

a first implementation of 'market heat' has been added to market orders. it shows the time passed since the last sale/aquisition in a selectable timeframe. this is useful to see if the order is 'working' or if adjustments need to be made. this adds some first real benefits to the raw data downloadable using the api.

Screenshot

other improvements, tools and additions are in progress... :)

cheerios

woddel

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2008.02.15 10:20:00 - [48]
 

Any chance of adding corp wallet support?

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.15 10:30:00 - [49]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro
Any chance of adding corp wallet support?


hello kazuo

i guess that will take some time. as you can read in the thread above, there is a lot of talk about security and trust. at the moment, i only import personal data into the database - corp-data is left out completely. maybe i will add it some times (if demand exceeds mistrust)... :)

woddel

Nun Izon
Gallente
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
Posted - 2008.02.15 12:05:00 - [50]
 

I, like everyone else, am scared of the secruity risk.

I am with Chribba here, if you wish to package this to sell then please let me know. I have been running Coldfusion since 4.51 and have servers able to run this. Or maybe if you can sell it to Chribba to run as a public service.


MotherMoon
Huang Yinglong
Posted - 2008.02.15 12:19:00 - [51]
 

Originally by: Nun Izon
I, like everyone else, am scared of the secruity risk.

I am with Chribba here, if you wish to package this to sell then please let me know. I have been running Coldfusion since 4.51 and have servers able to run this. Or maybe if you can sell it to Chribba to run as a public service.




the big issue is just POS fuel level and stuff right?

I mean no one here really thinks that your account can be controlled in anyways right?
I'm just saying the way were talking about it new players might think that someone can use thier API key to log in.

personaly I would like to see a flexable API key for each function.

so I could give you my character info, skill wallet and market API keys.

Nun Izon
Gallente
Universal Exports
FOUNDATI0N
Posted - 2008.02.15 12:40:00 - [52]
 

Originally by: MotherMoon

the big issue is just POS fuel level and stuff right?

I mean no one here really thinks that your account can be controlled in anyways right?
I'm just saying the way were talking about it new players might think that someone can use thier API key to log in.

personaly I would like to see a flexable API key for each function.

so I could give you my character info, skill wallet and market API keys.



Yeah, CCP should do something like that.

But yes, its locations of POS and fuel amounts that are at risk. Also looking at the site, it can list all of your hangers, and what is stored there.

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.02.15 13:45:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/02/2008 14:33:19
Originally by: Frug
I'm wondering how many people will blindly type in their eve usernames and passwords.

That was my very first thought as well.
ugh

Having read some more, I would stil be careful, even with the limited API Key (not to mention the full API Key). For example, a combat pilot might not like war targets to know which combat skills he's trained to what levels.

The OP may be completely honest, or he may not, and I'd rather be cautious.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.15 14:55:00 - [54]
 

Originally by: Poreuomai
Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/02/2008 14:33:19
That was my very first thought as well.
ugh

Having read some more, I would stil be careful, even with the limited API Key (not to mention the full API Key). For example, a combat pilot might not like war targets to know which combat skills he's trained to what levels.

The OP may be completely honest, or he may not, and I'd rather be cautious.


well, about knowing skills: one can not see skills of others. there are even portals just for that (ineve.net). and if i would even look at them, what are chances running into exact this person? and then, i'm in here for a bit more than a month, so my skills are mediocre anyway and no match for any half-witted fighter (one of which i am not)... i think the security issue has been discussed enough by now and if you don't want to register, then simply don't. easy enough.

besides, i have not yet really heard from chribba about a possible 'chribba-solution' to this. i can't do more than ask and wait... :)

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.15 15:00:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Nun Izon
I, like everyone else, am scared of the secruity risk.

I am with Chribba here, if you wish to package this to sell then please let me know. I have been running Coldfusion since 4.51 and have servers able to run this. Or maybe if you can sell it to Chribba to run as a public service.




hi nun.

well, i guess it's not EVERYBODY: i got lot's of registrations and many very approving feedbacks too.

for packaging: i have no idea what this would be worth like. any suggestions? maybe send them to my email (woddel@eve-commander.com). but even if chribba would run it on his servers, i still would need to have access to the app and db for application development. so, no change after all. chribba saw this like me too... it's not so easy.

Osku Rei
Posted - 2008.02.15 15:07:00 - [56]
 

Edited by: Osku Rei on 15/02/2008 15:18:42
At the moment the website seems to be down?

And it's up again!

Visceroth
Minmatar
The Athiest Syndicate
Advocated Destruction
Posted - 2008.02.15 15:32:00 - [57]
 

I think at this point the warning is out...do this at your own risk. Now can we stop bashing him and regurgitating the same damn reasons as to not sign up for this site???

If he is scamming than "ha ha" to all of you who did it. If he's not, than he may be making something that can be of real use to people out there.

If your that worried, use his site and once your done, request a new API key.

To the OP: I'd stop defending yourself. Only fuels the fire. You've done what you need to which is let people out there know what you have available. Great work and thanks for your hard work for trying to contribute to the EVE community. Don't think that is only the eve community that would be like this. EVERY MMORPG community is like this. They are mistrusting and they should be. People get taken advantage of everyday. Good luck with your project and I hope that the site is successful.

Forando
Interstellar Cowards
Posted - 2008.02.15 15:47:00 - [58]
 

Looks to be a neat app, I'll sure keep an eye out for where it goes.

But for now, it just has those big red bold blinking letters on top of it that says:

Warning: Possible Trade Order Data Mining

But when a trustworthy community establishes, I might sign up.

Ethen Bejorn
Pestilent Industries Amalgamated
Posted - 2008.02.15 16:03:00 - [59]
 

If you play Eve you should figure that one of your most trusted members, probably a Director in your corp is also a spy or alt of some corp/alliance hostile to you. No one can do anything to your account nor your assets with your API key. All they will have is information which is easily obtainable by joining your corp/alliance with an alt and reading your forums or talking to your members. Seriously, there is being safe and then there is paranoia. You just have to be better and smarter than the spies and thieves and always assume they know everything you do not want them to know either way.

Poreuomai
Minmatar
Mirkur Draug'Tyr
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.02.15 19:17:00 - [60]
 

Edited by: Poreuomai on 15/02/2008 19:19:25

Originally by: woddel
well, about knowing skills: one can not see skills of others.

Except that YOU can.

Originally by: woddel
there are even portals just for that (ineve.net).

I would not upload my info there either.

Originally by: woddel
and if i would even look at them, what are chances running into exact this person?

Look, the point is we don't know you. You could be anyone, an alt of any given alliance member. Nothing personal, but for all we know you could be doing anything with this info, including passing it on to others.

Originally by: woddel
and then, i'm in here for a bit more than a month, so my skills are mediocre anyway and no match for any half-witted fighter (one of which i am not)...

You could be posting with your alt, how would we know?

Originally by: woddel
i think the security issue has been discussed enough by now and if you don't want to register, then simply don't. easy enough.

I'm simply giving you feedback, explaining why I won't register.



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