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woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:25:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: woddel on 23/08/2010 20:35:31
Hello all

As we can't be online all the time, but still want to know what happens to my skills, market offers and money flow, I created a webpage which uses full API features to read all kind of stuff out of our accounts. After more than two and a half years of operation, this is the oldest, largest and most trusted page of its kind:

http://www.eve-commander.com

It offers offline information on the following:
- Basic character information & status, incl. clone grade
- Money transactions
- Performance analysis for your trade items
- Assets (by station or type)
- Ships (with location and setup)
- Market orders
- Market data (regional price analysis and comparison)
- Industry production
- Skills and skill training (incl the new skill queue).
- Multiple characters linking support and overview pages
- Directly compare the skills of your characters
- Find characters matching freely defineable skill criteria
- Received Mails & Notifications including e-mail push service!
- and more...

check out the screenshots

Corporate Data:
- corporation information for ceos and directors including transactions, wallet, assets and industry can be ordered as an option.

Latest updates are always noted on the history page.

More features are being added all the time. As I am a trader / industrialist, I will focus a bit in that direction and future features will include more reports and statistics. Integration of eve-central data has been realized as well.

Advantage over some other tools: No software has to be installed: It's fully web based and therefore accessible from anywhere at any time.

I know that some people are reserved about providing API keys. It's a matter of trust and I wrote an extensive privacy statement about that. Please read that first. Full API key is required for data like wallet transactions, market orders and assets which are not available in the limited keys.
Also, the topic about security and trust has been extensively discussed in this tread. please read through it before posting something concerning this.


After more than two years of flawless operation (since feb 08), this platform is being trusted by close to 6'600 users (august 2010). Many thanks to each and every one of them!

updated:
It is also possible to use the limited api key set, which will limit the scope and features of the page to character data and skills. But you can always swap keys to toggle between versions. Please check out the webpage for more information.

update2:
and no: eve commander is not a downloadable software that can be installed on your computer like evemon. it's a web application software based on coldfusion 8 and a big ms sql server 2008 database (about 1.6 gig plus another 1.8 gig in precalculated distance/routing data). unless you are a corporation with serious interest of having eve commander on it's own servers (corporate edition), please don't ask about that.

I hope you like it... :) Feature requests are always welcome and many of them have continuously been incorporated into the project.

woddel

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:28:00 - [2]
 

I'm wondering how many people will blindly type in their eve usernames and passwords.

Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
Perditus Peregrinus
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:30:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Siigari Kitawa on 03/02/2008 10:30:09
/!\ Danger danger /!\

Where's the REGISTER button?

Nevermind, found it. Very, very hard to see.

Riethe
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:32:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Frug
I'm wondering how many people will blindly type in their eve usernames and passwords.

Please don't ruin this out of the gate. You're going to scare other ignorant people like yourself from what seems to be a solid piece of work.

It does not require your EVE password.

It requires your API key. There is a very large difference.

Try looking around next time before you say stupid things out loud.

woddel warrior
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:33:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Frug
I'm wondering how many people will blindly type in their eve usernames and passwords.


i hope they do not. i especially write that on the registration page... but even then, the passwords are encrypted as a hash in the database and are not decryptable.

:)

Frug
Omega Wing
Snatch Victory
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:33:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Frug on 03/02/2008 10:38:21
Edited by: Frug on 03/02/2008 10:33:55
Originally by: Riethe
Originally by: Frug
I'm wondering how many people will blindly type in their eve usernames and passwords.

Please don't ruin this out of the gate. You're going to scare other ignorant people like yourself from what seems to be a solid piece of work.

It does not require your EVE password.

It requires your API key. There is a very large difference.

Try looking around next time before you say stupid things out loud.


Don't be a moron. I can see what it is.

Woddel: At first glance though, you must admit that it looks like it's asking for something you should never give. I think maybe it's the terminology 'userid'

Edit: also, spelling error on the page: plattform -> platform.

Tzar'rim
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:49:00 - [7]
 

Some new guy without an avatar telling he has made an EVE program? I do hope you understand me/us being careful about that one.

If your product is genuine use your main, until then (and probably even after that) I will have to assume it has less than desired side effects like giving out wallet/asset info to someone who could make use of it.


woddel warrior
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.02.03 10:56:00 - [8]
 

Edited by: woddel warrior on 03/02/2008 11:06:04
Edited by: woddel warrior on 03/02/2008 10:57:32
Originally by: Tzar'rim
Some new guy without an avatar telling he has made an EVE program? I do hope you understand me/us being careful about that one.

If your product is genuine use your main, until then (and probably even after that) I will have to assume it has less than desired side effects like giving out wallet/asset info to someone who could make use of it.




sorry, i have no idea why my image does not appear (i also don't see it in EVEMon, for example). my in game character is 'woddel' as well. look me up there. hmpf, and now i posted with my second character's name. sorry for that.

and once again: read the privacy statement on the page. i can't stress that enough.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.02.03 11:17:00 - [9]
 

Well, as a trader, I bet you are going to do some sweet datamining in your database when it is loaded full of peoples market transaction data.

I would never share the "Full Acess API Key" on a website and I hope no one else will either.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 11:38:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Well, as a trader, I bet you are going to do some sweet datamining in your database when it is loaded full of peoples market transaction data.

I would never share the "Full Acess API Key" on a website and I hope no one else will either.


well, that it is your right to make this decision. i just can't follow your argument, because all market data is also available within eve. also the universe is large enough that i don't think it is interesting to know that somebody is selling railguns 29 jumps away. also, if people just WOULD read the privacy statement, i do write there that some market analysis tool could be added sometimes, but it will need SPECIFIC consent of the users to take part and submit their data.

it makes me a little sad that people only see evil in others, when all i am trying to do is to make a tool - i primarily wrote for myself a few weeks ago - accessible to other players in the community because of the feedback i got from friends who saw what i did and wanted to use it for themselves too. nobody is forced to participate, in the end.

Gangus
Minmatar
Matari BackBone
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2008.02.03 13:13:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Gangus on 03/02/2008 13:15:00
As what seems a rarity on these boards, a serious response, i'd like to suggest you head over to battleclinicand have a word with the guys there to see if you can assist in their EVEMon program in any way. The other way is to make sure you have the source code available for the perusal of the end-user.

EDIT: Duh, just realised it's a webpage, and it wants the FULL API.... Dude. that's plain EVIL and i hope this thread gets deleted by a dev before your poison infects some poor player who knows not what they are doing.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2008.02.03 13:15:00 - [12]
 

tbh judging by the screen it looks exactly what I need but as others, I don't really feel comfortable giving out my full API keys - you wouldn't happen to have like a package we can buy and put on our own servers?

Gangus
Minmatar
Matari BackBone
Fate Weavers
Posted - 2008.02.03 13:16:00 - [13]
 

Originally by: Chribba
tbh judging by the screen it looks exactly what I need but as others, I don't really feel comfortable giving out my full API keys - you wouldn't happen to have like a package we can buy and put on our own servers?


that too

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 13:54:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Gangus
Edited by: Gangus on 03/02/2008 13:15:00
As what seems a rarity on these boards, a serious response, i'd like to suggest you head over to battleclinicand have a word with the guys there to see if you can assist in their EVEMon program in any way. The other way is to make sure you have the source code available for the perusal of the end-user.

EDIT: Duh, just realised it's a webpage, and it wants the FULL API.... Dude. that's plain EVIL and i hope this thread gets deleted by a dev before your poison infects some poor player who knows not what they are doing.


well, i won't repeat myself anymore. it is up to each and every single player in his free will if he chooses to trust me or not (not EVERYBODY is evil in this universe). my 50 betausers are almost filled up (i guess i will have to expand the betaphase due to demand) and i also get a lot of positive feedback. also, many people simply don't seem to grasp what full apis keys can do and what they can NOT do. read my privacy statement on the webpage. i just don't think it is very fair to flame other people's work just by default.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 13:57:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Chribba
tbh judging by the screen it looks exactly what I need but as others, I don't really feel comfortable giving out my full API keys - you wouldn't happen to have like a package we can buy and put on our own servers?


well, that is not really feasible at the moment. the tool is written in coldfusion and requires a server with coldfusion8 and ms sql database (about 400mb to start with due to all basic meta data like stations, items etc). also, the tool is under heavy development and updated constantly. i also could not think of a reasonable price either.

Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:16:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 03/02/2008 14:16:56
Originally by: woddel
well, that it is your right to make this decision. i just can't follow your argument, because all market data is also available within eve. also the universe is large enough that i don't think it is interesting to know that somebody is selling railguns 29 jumps away. also, if people just WOULD read the privacy statement, i do write there that some market analysis tool could be added sometimes, but it will need SPECIFIC consent of the users to take part and submit their data.


Ok, lets say I'm a trader and I use your webpage. You will then know exactly what I buy and sell where plus every single item I have in stock. And to make it easier for you to find the interesting traders, just search for the people with the biggest wallets and you are set.

I truly hope no one sign up, even by misstake, and if they do to change their API key asap.

Btw, I'm not talking about some public market analysis tool, but your private dataming of the database.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:23:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Edited by: Mashie Saldana on 03/02/2008 14:16:56
Ok, lets say I'm a trader and I use your webpage. You will then know exactly what I buy and sell where plus every single item I have in stock. And to make it easier for you to find the interesting traders, just search for the people with the biggest wallets and you are set.

I truly hope no one sign up, even by misstake, and if they do to change their API key asap.

Btw, I'm not talking about some public market analysis tool, but your private dataming of the database.


well, i can only really really pity you that you see the bad in other people only. if it would be my intention to misuse that data, i don't think i would have spend so much time to create all these applications around it. and i think there are plenty other tools to find market possibilities (eve-central.com for example). i don't need this data and i wrote in the privacy statement that i won't look at them. and i keep my promises. i don't know where you are from, but here in switzerland i learned that successfull business in based on trust. if you don't have that in me, so leave it be. end of story.

CCP Navigator


C C P
C C P Alliance
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:27:00 - [18]
 

Please remeber to visit this page and read on exactly what you are doing when you give people access to your API key.

This is just general information that all players should read up on when deciding to upload their API key to any third party program.

Brutoth Tain
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:34:00 - [19]
 

As you have taken the time to construct a program for EVE you must be an EVE player and you will be aware that scams for various out of game reasons exist like account theft or other nasty things and I'm sure wallet info and other data could be very useful to some people.

I'm not going to accuse you of being up to mischief but you should also be aware that a new char appearing on the forums asking for this data appears suspicious and you even denied working with Chribba (probably the most trusted player in EVE) to provide other means of hosting your service.

The lack of trust is saddening and you may well be genuinely trying to help but the way the world is just makes it suspicious.

Ilea Celentay
Mystification
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:37:00 - [20]
 

Firstly, I have to say it looks pretty impressive. Strangely the brown colour scheme works rather well Smile

I can understand peoples personal opinion of using their Full API key for a web-site or program that is not under their total control. Though maybe some people are over looking it a little too much.

The amount of time and users it would need for Woddel to find people that trade and deliberately go out there to steal their income is significant, and really, can you honestly see someone doing such a thing, and managing it.

It takes skill to be a trader just as it does being successful in PvP, and overall every area of Eve. Each player is able to complete in any area, but really to excel as a trader as much as someone that would be worried about such a tool as this isn't possible simply by stealing the profits of others.

A real trader might be set back, but he would adapt so fast that profit loss would be minimal.

Yes, the Full API key could be damaging to many players, but I find it rather rude that some people would be so blunt and insulting to someone that put so much effort into something to help others simply because they would choose not to submit their Key.

Its also worth pointing out that such a tool could be a massive help to many players in many ways, that is why, if they are comfortable with submitting their key, they should do so.

Being careful where you submit your API key is wise, but if I understand it correctly, the primary point of the key was to allow development of such software with minimal risk. Information really is only so valuable, there are so many more skills needed to even use such information to your advantage.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:44:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Brutoth Tain
As you have taken the time to construct a program for EVE you must be an EVE player and you will be aware that scams for various out of game reasons exist like account theft or other nasty things and I'm sure wallet info and other data could be very useful to some people.

I'm not going to accuse you of being up to mischief but you should also be aware that a new char appearing on the forums asking for this data appears suspicious and you even denied working with Chribba (probably the most trusted player in EVE) to provide other means of hosting your service.

The lack of trust is saddening and you may well be genuinely trying to help but the way the world is just makes it suspicious.


well, i'm not all that new to the game. ok, i've only been around for like more than a month and this was maybe on of my first posts here in the forum, but it's not like i signed up yesterday. and that i do not have an avatar image seems to be some problem of the imageserver of some sort. you don't have one either.

then, i did not deny working with chribba (whom i don't know at all, by the way - on the other side i don't know a lot of people i guess). it's just not practical at the moment. even then, chribba would be facing the same problem like me providing the service to other people. and it's really not reasonable to think that every player wanting to use such a tool will have or does have access to some advanced webserver technologies...

Carniflex
StarHunt
Fallout Project
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:45:00 - [22]
 

Seems very awesome. However - is there any possibility of getting it as stand alone program (willing to pay isk for it) as
I WILL NOT give out my full API key.

Full API key enables acsess to your corporate memebership list plus POS locations, POS types and fuel levels (including strontsium amount) in them so providing it to anybody else is not an option for me. It would be too serious security risk.

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:50:00 - [23]
 

Originally by: Ilea Celentay
Firstly, I have to say it looks pretty impressive. Strangely the brown colour scheme works rather well Smile



thanks ilea. somebody who is reasonable... :) only one thing i don't really understand. even IF i would look at the data, what could i do? looking at somebody else's market orders would only allow me to go and buy these shield boosters he wants to get rid of or sell him the guns he craves for. and even then it would most likely be that somebody else would sell or buy them at better prices at another station closer to me anyway...

Riethe
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:50:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Frug
Don't be a moron. I can see what it is.

Woddel: At first glance though, you must admit that it looks like it's asking for something you should never give. I think maybe it's the terminology 'userid'

Edit: also, spelling error on the page: plattform -> platform.


If you want to suggest that giving your API key out is dangerous--then do it.

But don't make ignorant remarks about user names and passwords. There is no place on that site that requires an EVE password. In fact it even states to use something OTHER than an EVE password.

If at first glance you see anything other than this, then it goes back to my original assertion: your ignorance is clearly blinding you. You're saying ridiculous things that don't make sense. You are indirectly hurting this guy with your make-belief concerns.



This isn't getting nearly enough attention, and while it is risky to drop a full API key onto a stranger, it does seem to be quite solid from my first impressions.

Brutoth Tain
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:51:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: woddel
then, i did not deny working with chribba (whom i don't know at all, by the way - on the other side i don't know a lot of people i guess). it's just not practical at the moment. even then, chribba would be facing the same problem like me providing the service to other people. and it's really not reasonable to think that every player wanting to use such a tool will have or does have access to some advanced webserver technologies...


Chribba runs a huge list of hosted services for the EVE community like file hosting and agent finders and lots of other tools and services, he also works tirelessly to maintain and run them.

Like others have said this data could be used for lots of things from planning suicide ganks to being able to plot someones business practice and POS information so you must realise why people are reticent to just handing over access to that data to anyone who comes along.

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises
Otherworld Empire
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:52:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: woddel
Originally by: Chribba
tbh judging by the screen it looks exactly what I need but as others, I don't really feel comfortable giving out my full API keys - you wouldn't happen to have like a package we can buy and put on our own servers?


well, that is not really feasible at the moment. the tool is written in coldfusion and requires a server with coldfusion8 and ms sql database (about 400mb to start with due to all basic meta data like stations, items etc). also, the tool is under heavy development and updated constantly. i also could not think of a reasonable price either.
The technical platform is in no way a problem for me at least, and fully understand its developing status.

I will be checking up on your progress and hope to see it go into 'final', and be sure to drop me a line if you ever are in the thoughts of selling it as a package or similar (even for personal closed use) - as I am very interested in it.

I currently use the open-source 'Sexy Wallet' which is great - but your package seem to have more potential with monitoring both assets and market/orders. Looking very much forward to your progress. Good luck!

/c

woddel
Gallente
Canis Industries Ltd
Avaricious Cartel
Posted - 2008.02.03 14:56:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Carniflex
Seems very awesome. However - is there any possibility of getting it as stand alone program (willing to pay isk for it) as
I WILL NOT give out my full API key.



sorry, eve commander is a webapplication that needs a specialised webserver environment to run. it's not an installable application like EVEMon. so, eve commander is no option for you then, as you don't want to give away your api keys (which is your own personal right to decide about - nobody takes offense in that, especially me). maybe somebody will sometimes write an installable application which you can use on your computer. but until then, you will have to wait.

Hellspawn666
Minmatar
Emo Rangers
Electric Monkey Overlords
Posted - 2008.02.03 15:00:00 - [28]
 

Although i personaly have no use for it i dont see what harm it could really cause assuming this was a scam since as far as i know you can just change your API if it looks odd anyway. Isnt this the reason API came out? Also ofcourse heed the full one to show all the information hes put there. If i were you il'd convince a few people that are well known to try it and once they are happy with it they can tell the community that they vouch for it. Or have someone look at the code and find out if it sends that information to you or not.

Estel Arador
Posted - 2008.02.03 15:01:00 - [29]
 

I think this is a great tool and will keep an eye on it to see how it develops.

As others have said, probably the most important thing which you might want to look in to is providing this service either in collaboration with an already established (trusted) third party or as a downloadable (open-source) application.

An Anarchyyt
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2008.02.03 17:32:00 - [30]
 

This guy doesn't know who Chribba is, and freely admits that...can he really be trusted?


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