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QUITSHOOTINGATME
Posted - 2008.02.02 12:04:00 - [241]
 

What about the possibility of something along the lines of a pos component where only one can be placed in a system at a time, no matter who it belongs too, and allows the owning corporation and/or alliance instant knowledge of the appearance of belts and their locations within that system? (Or something along the line of the probing system with ships, countdown bar and everything with the pos component acting as a big ass single probe with perfect accuracy.) It can go along with the lines of a required level of sovereignty in order to anchor, that way theres an additional strategical element to controlling systems.

Hey, you can always make it required to be anchored outside of the POS shield, because "the shield would interfere with the scan", to help promote small gang combat.

Imhothar Xarodit
Minmatar
Wolverine Solutions
Posted - 2008.02.02 18:47:00 - [242]
 

Originally by: CCP kieron
... asteroids are one of the primary building blocks of the EVE universe.
How sad that this isn't really true. Especially in 0.0 space. I am one of our corp's refiners, offering the service of reprocessing people's loot, and the vast amounts of minerlas they get out of loot is really embarassing, compared to what I can mine with maxed skills with a Hulk and boosting Rorqual with all the Leadership stuff and implant.

Furthermore, loot gives a evenly spread ration of all minerals almost as you need it for production. I am asking myself often times why I am bothering with mining the damn veldspar when all I get is a handfull of trit per hour.

Mining for profit is a long forgotten story with mineral prizes falling down like an Apoc running out of slaves. In my opinion, the most important thing to safe mining as a real profession is to remove all player-buildable items from RAT loots to reduce the amount of reprocessed loot. I don't say it's a final solution, and maybe someone finds a better way, but its the only one i got. More or better asteroids won't help a thing if you have to search for hours to find one and nobody wants to buy your stuff because the market is so flooded its not funny anymore.

BigWhale
Gallente
Three WiseMen Association
Posted - 2008.02.02 21:09:00 - [243]
 

Originally by: Imhothar Xarodit
Originally by: CCP kieron
... asteroids are one of the primary building blocks of the EVE universe.
How sad that this isn't really true. Especially in 0.0 space. I am one of our corp's refiners, offering the service of reprocessing people's loot, and the vast amounts of minerlas they get out of loot is really embarassing, compared to what I can mine with maxed skills with a Hulk and boosting Rorqual with all the Leadership stuff and implant.


In high-sec macroes pretty much mined-out everything. So we could say that macroers are life and blood of eve... ;>

Tipz NexAstrum
Celestial Horizon Corp.
United Corporate Ventures
Posted - 2008.02.02 21:10:00 - [244]
 

As I understand, with max skills and the refining implant you only need a tier 1 (correct me if I'm wrong, I've been oog for awhile) refinery outpost upgrade which stops alot of alliances from upgrading further. So I suggest making any uber deep 0.0 ores have a higher refining waste so the only possible way to get 100% is to invest in the tier three refinery upgrade. That and give ORE & other NPC mining corps a few of their stations with the equivalent refining ability (thats just the RP in me).

Theres alot of amazing ideas in this tread, kudos to the miners of EvE. Under the current system I had fun mining for 18 months before I completely lost interest so adding to and extending the professional miners endgame is very appealing to me.

Silverace
The Exploited.
Black Star Alliance
Posted - 2008.02.02 23:14:00 - [245]
 

Originally by: Montaire
Here's my idea.

Note obligatory Paint image @ Linkage



You take all the asteroids and put them into one, superdense belt that occupies an entire orbital on the same system. No belts, just this field. Its composition is determined by sec status, but even in 0.0 its VERY highly set with basic lows - Veld, Scord etc. 90%+

Now sprinkled in there are mediums and high ends. You seed rats in there at random points.

Now "Scanning the Belts" means something totally new, your quite literally on patrol along this giant belt, warping 500km at a time searching for Rats or Roids. Invaders don't have clickable belts to go to anymore, but probes = still great and Intel = awesome.

The new asteroid types can be found via scanning manually (warping around looking on your Asteroid Scanner) OR via an exploration beacon, both would work. Exploration would be faster, but making small hops with say a Rorqual you could scan a huge chunk of stuff.

You now have pre-planning for mining ops, which is fantastic. "I've got 5 spots bookmarked for tonight" and you can totally ditch that incredibly lame "perma-tank never worry about rats mine while AFK" schtik - rats could spawn, stay on your toes.

Pepper the belt with NPC stuff. Heck, put a Guristas Dreadnought + Escort in there. Have a Serpentis Small Tower complete with guns and guards mixed in there somewhere as an "officer" class spawn.

New types of asteroids have Gravitic beacons, so they can be found via exploration within the belt, or just found via fantastic recon. Some of the better ones are actually INSIDE a NPC pos shield, you have to take out the pos (No reinforced) to get at them.

Moons inside asteroid belts = fleet fights in asteroid belts = AWESOME.

Interceptors hunting barges within a huge asteroid field = AWESOME.


This is indeed an awesome idea - imagine mining quietly and suddenly a capital fleet engagement starts a few km away!

RenKaren
Caldari
Zen'Tar
Posted - 2008.02.03 05:02:00 - [246]
 

This is a bit of a touchy subject, and must be approached with great care. As many others have undoubtedly said before me, complicating the mining process too much is a very bad idea.

Adding more ores, just in adn of itself, is not too unreasonable, though it won't really accomplish much either. If there was one proposal that I liked, it's what 0raven0 said about making ores that have high yeilds of single minerals, like Veldspar.

I despise the idea of ores that would waste my time. Mining already takes long enough. It already takes enough skills and investment for a modest, but dependable payout. I'm the main industrialist for my small corp, so I know this well.

I can see some pros and cons to making asteroid belts a spawing phenomenon. On the plus side, when the miner encounters one, they can be fairly certain that the belt isn't mined out. With macro-miners and huge mining corps cleaning out valuable belts, knowing that there's good, big 'roids to harvest is good to know. And if it speeds up the game as a whole and makes it run significantly more smoothly, then that's cool, too.

On the flipside, it is complicating the process of mining. If you make i ttoo hard for young players to mine, that would be very detrimental. At worst, these spawning belts should require nothing worse than a Rank 1 or 2 skill and a cheap, easily-equipped module to find. Anything else would be nothing short of disasterous.

The talk of volitile gas pockets, trick roids and worthless ore sickens me. You already say asteroids are the foundation of EVE. Take this very seriously. They need to be accessible at all costs.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.03 06:49:00 - [247]
 

As it has been pointed out, the current belts have a number of uses beyond Mining, I wanted to expand on the second one most folk’s think of (or is it the first?) Rats...

I have been mining ice as of late, and I watch as a few rats (.7 system so the rats are not that big) shooting away at a Mackinaw that is just ignoring them... it finishes mining, warps off, and the rats go pick on someone else... eventually, the drones come out and pop the rats...

If I were some pirate group with a number of members, and while we were out pirating I came upon a "Miner" that I wanted to pop, I would try myself, then call for my friends to come help... if that miner proved to be strong, I would go look for weaker pray...

With the above in mind, have rat spawns escalate, call for help as it were, once they have been attacking for a while... say 1 to 2 minutes, spawning more, slightly tougher rats in the same area... As Drones are supposed to now, have these rats concentrate fire on the target of the original rat... if they are not up to the task and the targeted ship has not responded, trigger more, slightly tougher rats... and so on... at some point, the target ship will Warp or Pop... or fight back...

Once the rat Spawn is killed (or the belt is vacated) the spawn resets to the original system appropriate rats (say after 15 to 30 minutes for the reset)... Killing all the rats at any point simulates "Strong force", so the Rats leave (until the next random spawn) to find "Weaker Pray"...

With the idea of Different levels of belts in a system, Plotted (current static belts like we have now), Un-plotted (no maintained warp point, use ships scanner to locate) and Hidden (Ship's scanner or new Scanner Module) rats that spawn in those belts could also be slightly stronger as well...

Galdaron xax
Gallente
Cloak and Daggers
High Treason Alliance
Posted - 2008.02.04 13:58:00 - [248]
 

If this reply contains any ideas from others I'm sorry but reading everything is way to much for me right now

the only thing i was thinking about is perhaps give rise to new type of ore that could be used as catalyst in production research or refining..
we all know what catalysts do in our real world they improve reaction, make them faster , need less material or improve the result.
so you could have compounds that do:
1 higher refining yield per m3 refined
2 reduce mineral costs in production
3 increase crystals lifespan
4 reduce research time
5 convert ore from one type in another(like in might and magic a bit but at a cost :))

the idea of roids that contain a bit off everything would be great in empire
but let low sec and 0.O contain pure ores so you want to hit those

for the moment many of my corp mates just reprocess their loot and build with that and they get way more then I can mine as they keep moving and I need to play the sitting duck, dead duck most of the time

perhaps change the way mining works , the laser cuts a part of the roid
you pull it in your hold and your internal refinery converts its to the needed ore
this conversion could be done at a safe spot(smaller ones could be ninja mined then, no cutting needed))
allowing the miner ships have industrial capacities and run reactions to
also allowing small trace amounts of moon minerals to be procecced (you could have veld with dysposium in it)
to add more ore use the materials gained from the drones. they fit perfectly
add some bio materials for some strange compounds :)(implants drugs etc)

I wouldn't mind to have the asteroid scanner be more important in mining (to see hidden ore,or to find the ones that don't need cutting,finding pieces of lost civs


I also had the idea that we need to use the mindlinks more we only use the one that reduces the time its needed to mine, why would you want to fit one that reduces your need for cap or increases your range. you could also make the different ores be more cap depended to mine
veld is the least ore needed, omber woulde use more power to get minned(cut) and so on that would make mining the high ends more in need of very specilized setups if going for the pure ore like you already did with mexorite


and as a last point, why doesn't the gallante who own the ore company have a descent mining cruiser like the caldari??i mean come on the bonus of the mining drones wont compete to a fully t2 fitted osprey. they should get the same
1 vexor 4 t2 miners 5 mining drones should be able to pull the same as the osprey fitted with 3 t2 mining lasers (20%bonus per cruiser level)

the only thing I hate about mining is the fact its hard to find big roids in empire
I don't even mind mining veld, but mining nothing is down right wrong
and plz add a countdown dial to the laser so you can see how much of a cycle is left is it that hard ?? will make it easy to see how fast you are going to get your ore

that's it for now sure more will follow

Vis Maior
Posted - 2008.02.05 00:53:00 - [249]
 

Edited by: Vis Maior on 05/02/2008 01:15:31
1.More Funn...Npc are to easy and boring,som time im 14hours in asterioid bels :> my dream,destroyers and cruiser Npc in 0.5,my t2 scout drones (drone interface lvl 5) pop npc very fast in 3-5 sek,only jaming npc make me crazy i waste time,roid target,and cykle.
2.Increase minerals amount in ore.
3.Configure concord maby som one ship concord support:> if we fight vs ore thief i can pop small frigate but not hac ;/ som pro players make miners life harder they stole jetson and pop it.
4.Balance isk-hour misson runner-miners,lvl 4 mission is 15-35 mil worth if nice salvage and a lot lp so isk x2 :/.I have raven bs lvl 3 cruise missle lvl 3 (450.000sp in missile) 850.000 sp in enginering is only a bit sp and is posible to make easy lvl 3 and som easy-normal lvl 4 mission,im happy with my 7mil isk per hour in high security system(main in hulk) but here is not balance.
5.Comets my dream=]
6.Som rare ore in High sec just low quanti but funn and satysfaction for miner if he find it,somting like ghost ore,can disapere 5min after discovered:>



Anglo
Minmatar
Astral Mexicans
Posted - 2008.02.05 10:01:00 - [250]
 

i know people dont like wow, heck nore do i, but they sort of have a few good things... like fishing.. u need to actually be there each time a fish gets cought because u should click, its random so a macro isent all that easy to make... maybe a thing like this would add something. make the cycle time random maybe :) and then you should click on the ore to get in in your ship... it would defintly ruin some for the macro farmers... yet again im certain that they eventually will find new ways-.....

make the mining more random...

maybe even make a button that is added random places in the ui each time you have to get the ore inside your ship, and when/if your a macro that does not get it in the ship, when next load is ready your ship blows up due to minerals allready being in the transfer bay :)))))

rofl that should sort macro miners...

Insurgency Trader
Posted - 2008.02.05 11:17:00 - [251]
 

Originally by: Silverace
Originally by: Montaire
Here's my idea.

Note obligatory Paint image @ Linkage



You take all the asteroids and put them into one, superdense belt that occupies an entire orbital on the same system. No belts, just this field. Its composition is determined by sec status, but even in 0.0 its VERY highly set with basic lows - Veld, Scord etc. 90%+

Now sprinkled in there are mediums and high ends. You seed rats in there at random points.

Now "Scanning the Belts" means something totally new, your quite literally on patrol along this giant belt, warping 500km at a time searching for Rats or Roids. Invaders don't have clickable belts to go to anymore, but probes = still great and Intel = awesome.

The new asteroid types can be found via scanning manually (warping around looking on your Asteroid Scanner) OR via an exploration beacon, both would work. Exploration would be faster, but making small hops with say a Rorqual you could scan a huge chunk of stuff.

You now have pre-planning for mining ops, which is fantastic. "I've got 5 spots bookmarked for tonight" and you can totally ditch that incredibly lame "perma-tank never worry about rats mine while AFK" schtik - rats could spawn, stay on your toes.

Pepper the belt with NPC stuff. Heck, put a Guristas Dreadnought + Escort in there. Have a Serpentis Small Tower complete with guns and guards mixed in there somewhere as an "officer" class spawn.

New types of asteroids have Gravitic beacons, so they can be found via exploration within the belt, or just found via fantastic recon. Some of the better ones are actually INSIDE a NPC pos shield, you have to take out the pos (No reinforced) to get at them.

Moons inside asteroid belts = fleet fights in asteroid belts = AWESOME.

Interceptors hunting barges within a huge asteroid field = AWESOME.


This is indeed an awesome idea - imagine mining quietly and suddenly a capital fleet engagement starts a few km away!


Not so sure on the capital engagments, but the idea of 1 or 2 massive belts (talking 2000km of roids spread out with more than a 5km hieght) in a system is one that makes me wet in places. ugh

Limited scan range inside the belt, and outside the belt so you can hide!!! multiple warp in points maybe 300-500km apart! no names on roids so you have to scan, Multiple ore roids!! Higher and lower qualitiy ores, Giant roids that need special lasers to mine, Damaging roids (release radiation, or harmful gases) there are so many good ideas floating around its unbelivable!

Now Which ones are CCP gunna act on?

AlleyKat
Gallente
The Unwanted.
Posted - 2008.02.05 13:41:00 - [252]
 

I like the idea of phasing in and out of existence and modules needed to locate and 'see' them.

This could work well for extremely dense asteroids, which are very small, but yield high-ore, and due to their dense nature, somehow distort space and can blink in and out of existence.

AK

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.05 23:41:00 - [253]
 

While I admit I am not a big fan of asteroids that attack miners, Rats and Ore thieves are more then enough for that...

All Asteroids should be able to be harvested, perhaps with the right skills... so as the Security rating of the system drops, the chance of a hostile/unknown asteroid increases...

All asteroids are named "Asteroid" until scanned/mined... simple scanners will tell the user that the Asteroid is actually an X-Type Asteroid (Veld, Scor, Mixed, Unknown...) Better scanners (higher skills) would identify more...(Veld, Scor, Mixed(Scor/Plag), Super-dense Plago(was Unknown)...)

Those Asteroids that are identified by normal scanners as "Unknown" will require higher/additional skills, better modules to mine them efficiently and safely... so a "Gas Roid" that would blow up sending shards of asteroid in every direction, with the proper (Deep core Miner perhaps) allows the gas inside to be mined (perhaps as a reaction material), a "Radioactive Core" (again, perhaps using a deep core mining laser) can be mined for uranium (that can be enriched)... and so on... simply mining that Gas Roid will cause it to implode/explode or the radioactive asteroid will cause other issues for those around it...

Super Dense roids would require Strip Miners or better (normal mining lasers will fail) and will the ore returned would be similar to the original but would refine to a 25% to 50% extra minerals

Kromaatikse Alain
Gallente
Thiokol Spacefaring Enterprises
Posted - 2008.02.06 18:35:00 - [254]
 

There are a number of Asteroid User classes at present. I believe the five main types are:

- Noob miner. This guy needs to supplement his "5k and a frigate" and gain minor combat experience, and doesn't have high-end equipment.

- Casual Miner. The guy who usually PvEs or PvPs, but wants to wind down and relax for a while. May fly a hauler with a mining laser on it, or a T1 barge.

- Professional Miner (commercial subtype). Puts a lot of effort into planning, skills and equipment. May have a dedicated refining alt (or corpmate). Hauls all his minerals to a major trade hub for sale, therefore prefers hi-sec or low-sec for proximity.

- Professional Miner (logistical subtype). As for the commercial miner, but the minerals mainly go towards manufacture rather than raw ISK. May be part of a major Alliance building capitals, therefore prefers sovereign 0.0 or low-sec. Hi-sec manufacturing corps also possible.

- Macrominer. This scum of the Earth - for they are metagamers - needs to be discouraged as much as possible. Typical configuration is a cluster of T2 mining barges, using a jetcan, serviced by a T2-expanded top-tier hauler. Typically they cluster around the jetcan rather than the rock, and just mine whatever rocks are within range. Blamed for both belt emptiness and mineral price depression, and a highly probable source of RMT'd ISK.

Taking into account the above, here are my suggestions:

- For the noob miners, keep the present situation with only low-end ores, being easy to find and plentiful, in 0.75+ systems - but have strip-miners cease to work on them, and make them permanent to reduce DB load.

- Introduce NPC mining ops in 0.9 and lower - so 1.0 is still rat-free, but 0.9 contains non-aggressive targets (and improves realism for RP'ers). In 0.8 and below, the mining ops start to get progressively tougher and better defended. Get rid of the NPCs that just float around with trit in their holds. This allows meta-mining, where you collect the ore from the NPC miners' drops - and the tougher ops drop more and better ore.

- For the professionals, I second a suggestion from early in the thread where belts should be made vastly more expansive and sparser, but also fewer. Take a look at a map of our Solar System, and you'll see a whole ring of asteroids between Mars and Jupiter, plus two large fields in Jupiter's orbit at the Lagrange points. Saturn's rings are also made of many small rocks and a lot of dust (hmm, reduced visibility and sensor range?), formed by similar processes on a smaller scale. This makes it harder for a Piwate to find a miner, while still allowing the Professional Miner to plan his excursions to richer rocks. Extend the map to allow warping to arbitrary points in the field.

- Replace the +5% and +10% ore variants with +50% and +100% variants. At present, the richer ores are barely worth going for, because they require more effort to find and don't yield as much per 'roid, while giving not very much more per cargo-load or time. This isn't like module bonuses, where small differences tend to stack up into bigger ones. Try a +250% variant as well, which can't be mined with Strip Miners - perhaps this is the one to seed in 0.75+ as above. Require the specialised crystals for the +100% variant, but don't make them relatively low-yield per 'roid as at present. In fact, making all of the 'roids permanent would help your DB quite a lot.

- I like the idea of requiring rent - at a low value - to keep cans anchored for an extended period. If the rent expires, the can un-anchors itself and anyone with a hauler can scoop it. This would deal with the litter problem. There is already an interface for Bills under Corporation - there'd need to be one for individuals too.

- To eliminate the macros, or at least nerf them comapred to real players, the only real solution is to remove them from the game entirely. Try looking for toons who are active in space 23/7, but not in a capital.

Kromaatikse Alain
Gallente
Thiokol Spacefaring Enterprises
Posted - 2008.02.06 19:10:00 - [255]
 

Continuing my stream of consciousness...

I've occasionally been bothered by the lack of teamwork shown by NPC agents. Recently there have been moves to encourage teamwork among capsuleers, but never does an NPC agent send along friendly reinforcements to help you along. Perhaps this is an opportunity to consider for Mining Missions - where either you, the capsuleer, have to defend an NPC miner in deadspace for a specified time, or the NPCs are sent to protect you, the miner, while you do your job - but they'll only stick around for a certain amount of time, and you have to pay the agent (hiring the escort), not the other way round!

To make it worthwhile in the latter case, there would have to be unique advantages to involving the agent. In hi-sec, the benefit might be rare, high-grade and valuable ores not usually available there. In low-sec, the NPCs would have to be tough enough to give a decent chance against player-pirates, and the guaranteed access to high-grade ores would still be valuable in itself. To balance this out from a anti-farming perspective, CONCORD would have to take longer to show up in hi-sec missions (in deadspace, they wouldn't be able to warp directly in), while low-sec missions are always a juicy target for player-pirates.

For the former case - protecting an NPC mining op - part of the reward might be a cut of the ore or minerals recovered from the deadspace asteroid field. This would make it slightly less of "just another PvE mission", besides the "protecting the NPCs" part. (This is another thing - NPCs never seem to attack other NPCs, even when they are of opposing factions.) The NPC miners would need to go for asteroids that capsuleers can't mine, such as the "crystal asteroids" that appear in some normal missions.

Or perhaps the mission is to protect the NPCs while they set up their own defences or outpost for an extended mining op. Part of the reward might then be semi-exclusive access to that part of the field for a while, with the NPCs' sentry guns and warp bubble enforcing the limit. This would also work for POS's in the belts, if the belts are extended to be big enough for everyone as suggested earlier.

CanalGoose
Posted - 2008.02.06 20:06:00 - [256]
 

Well I guess I do a second post to this topic.
As it stands right now the majority of replies are focusing around bigger and better belts/roids.
Any suggestion to making mining more interesting doesn't appeal to the high ore users; high ore users for which ever reason, be it ISK farmers, or industrialist and I can see the point of the industrialist 'cause I experienced it myself; mining to build ships in a small corporation takes almost non-stop mining and with roids getting smaller and smaller it gets boring; although roids size doesn't bother me , since I always have enough roids lined up, so when one pops the next is just a click away and since I have a hauler with me most of the times, I don't care if I have to move along the belt in order to reach every roid.
Since it is a time thing I don't specifically go after higher yield ones and only take them if they are in range of my current position.
What is frustrating however, of the higher-end ones seeded into belts, like Kernite/Omber/Plag and to a certain point Pyro. I don't find any for most of the times just a clutter of cans.
So I believe putting more or bigger roids into a belt won't change a thing, well maybe instead of all higher end roids being in cans by the time one gets there a handful would still be drifting around.
But it still wouldn't make things more interesting for me.
As I see the entire game mechanics are a bit off tilt.
I started building my own BS; bought a BPC 10 runs and thought hey one for me 9 to make money, but really it ain't that great to use the refines to make money thru building, on average I make maybe 1.5-2mill building and selling over selling the minerals right away, unless i want to jump around and find systems where the higher end ores are, then yeah I 'd be like many here, wasting time to find a viable belt that hasn't been stripped of those ores.
yeah in such a case I can see the point for more and bigger.

But all in all it's getting pretty boring
I d like to suggest higher losses when refining unless you have a perfect standing with a station, but that would drive things even more into 00 space, plus the mission system is pretty boring in itself; you doing the SAME thing over and over and over again no matter what type f agent you choose, except R&D I guess and well the ratio of what type of mission it is. The ones that require a bit more attention are courier missions, since the systems are different from agent to agent.
Why can't mission be specific, like manufacturing is truly that: manufacturing, you may have to find resources and courier them, but in order to do that you would have to find the right courier agent, the same for say astrosurvey, which could be incorporated into finding or developing skills to find Asteroid belts that then could be mined more efficiently, or to find special equipment for mining, or the agent could give you a BM to a good belt as a reward.
I know that doesn't appeal to the full time ore miners and the ones building ships, but for the rest of us it would make EVE more interesting, cause right now I am tired of mining and mining and mining, or when moving around either hauling the ores great distances to get good refines, or to start over getting standings with a station again and after about doing 20 missions 5x over finally getting perfect standings again, just in time to fnd the beautiful roids being reduces to pebbles again.
So I guess no mater what CCp comes up with there always will be disappointed players.
Oh one suggestion, or maybe two.
Make the giant secure cans bigger,say 3 times as much, but let them deteriorate in Roid belts so they would explode just like a JetCan after say 3hours.
and/or have any cans sitting in belts by the time of respawn explode. And clean up the litter around certain gates and stations at the same time.

Nyphur
Pillowsoft
Posted - 2008.02.06 23:29:00 - [257]
 

I'm sure someone's posted this already, but...
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=579110

Let's hope they use even half the stuff I came up with.

McFly
Peanut Factory
Posted - 2008.02.07 03:51:00 - [258]
 

oh crap.... dont make mining more tedious than it already is... I'm a PVPer with two mining alts, it's where i make my ISKies... I dont want to spend more time mining that i have to. Managing two Hulks and a Hauler as well as a tank at the same time in 0.0 is tediuos enough, why would I want to find out half the ore in my pos hangar is "fool's crokite" after spending hours mining it.

I understand some people may want some diversity in mining or something more adventurous, but seriously dont go overboard. Most of us have jobs and RL's I already spend to much of my time in game mining.

Tamahra
Gallente
Apina.
United Pod Service
Posted - 2008.02.07 10:29:00 - [259]
 

add rare stuff to asteroids that with a good portion of luck
the miner can occasionally extract every once in a while.

they would be some sort of special ressources that can only be sold to npcs for isk, and dont have any other use for the economy. just to give miners a little boost for a better income.

could add some special skills too, to boost the chance for extracting those rare minerals.

i could imagine a ton of other special rare things that could be extracted from asteroids, like some kind of a special loot table from asteroids

Oxylan
Posted - 2008.02.07 20:00:00 - [260]
 

Edited by: Oxylan on 08/02/2008 00:31:54
CCP please boost a bit concord time reaction Mad today in 0.5 system som Kamikaze in brutix atack me...we miners use expensive exhumers and cargo rigs... i post 2 day ago my idea,my alt (Vis Maior),i have right about thys themes...i have hull and strukture hp skill lvl 5... but not all miners who use hulk-mac have high tank skils Confused here is link to screnshotEvil or Very Mad

http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/9131/20080207165259xk8.jpg



Abrazzar
Posted - 2008.02.07 22:06:00 - [261]
 

Alloy Mining

We already have a wide variety of alloys in the game which are dropped by rogue drones. Alloys are basically more or less compressed minerals. The idea is that with special equipment those alloys can be scanned down in asteroids and mined out.

To be able to go prospecting for alloys you will need a special scanner. This scanner only has a short range, around 2.5 to 5km and has to be directed at a single targeted asteroid. Scanning time and success chance depend on skills like astrogeology and metallurgy. A successful scan will let you know if there are alloys around and which kinds is available. One then can then use precision mining lasers to drill down to the vein and extract the alloys. As alloys have a fixed volume skills don't affect mining yield but cycle time of the precision miners.

Being a Alloy Miner means you will need a agile ship that is able to move quick across belts to scan the asteroids for possible alloy veins. As not all asteroids contain alloys you will have to fly around quite a bit to scan through all the rocks in a belt. This occupation would give more significance to the mining frigates and cruisers. They could get a additional bonus to the precision miner cycle time in addition to the current mining laser yield bonus Maybe even a new kind of frigate or maybe even a destroyer sized vessel could be created to fit to this profession.

Point is that the alloy miner is not in direct rivalry to the ore miner concerning asteroids. They only compete on the mineral market. The difference between those two mining professions is that the ore miner is getting inflated minerals but sits still on a spot most of the time, while the alloy miner gets compressed minerals but needs to be more active in the hunt for alloy veins.

The difficulty in implementing alloy mining would be in balancing the profits between ore and alloy mining. Alloy mining has to be profitable enough to be a viable choice for a miner but it should not be so much more profitable than ore mining that the latter becomes obsolete.

One means to balance it out could be that alloy mining yields much faster minerals but the amounts available are very limited and don't respawn that often. This means that a unlucky alloy miner can draw only blanks when he's looking in belts that have been mined out recently or frequently. The potential for frustration is balanced out with the wealth that can be acquired should one find a bountiful vein of valuable alloys.

That alloys can quickly get used up will also mean that in highly populated areas it is rather unlikely to find veins. So people venturing in low populated areas have a greater chance to make some riches. The compressed nature of alloys also means that a small, agile and thus quick to run away ship is a viable choice when looking for veins in low security areas. This could draw more miners out in areas they would normally avoid in clumsy, expensive and vulnerable mining barges and industrials

Alloy mining is a significantly different gaming experience from normal mining and would give miners a new choice on how to play the game.

darth feather
Posted - 2008.02.08 21:08:00 - [262]
 

Make it all random spawns. This way everybody has a chance of getting any type of ore, anywhere. Currently all ore is linked to the security space the belt is in. This makes it boring, linear, and unnatural. Eve is supposed to be about freedom and choice, not forcing someone to go into a region with high risk, just to be able to mine some valuable ore.

Hamfast
Gallente
Posted - 2008.02.08 22:11:00 - [263]
 

Originally by: darth feather
Make it all random spawns. This way everybody has a chance of getting any type of ore, anywhere. Currently all ore is linked to the security space the belt is in. This makes it boring, linear, and unnatural. Eve is supposed to be about freedom and choice, not forcing someone to go into a region with high risk, just to be able to mine some valuable ore.


I think the point is the other way, if you wish to mine some of the current ore types, you may (or will) need to go to less and less secure systems even into 0.0 space... there is still no requirement for you to go there, you have the choice to go or to buy the minerals you need from somone who did...

Terranid Meester
Tactical Assault and Recon Unit
Posted - 2008.02.09 23:23:00 - [264]
 

Im no miner but maybe the current ores should be mixed in with worthless material so for example to get to that golden omber you have to refine dig through some of the worthless ore first.

Maybe make different parts of asteroids targetable so you clear one side of an asteroid of worthless material to get the good stuff at the core. The worthless ore naturally replenishes.

The rareness of the ore, changes the amount of worthless ore mixed in with it. Veldspar would have some but not a huge deal.

SiJira
Posted - 2008.02.10 21:44:00 - [265]
 

Originally by: Terranid Meester
Im no miner but maybe the current ores should be mixed in with worthless material so for example to get to that golden omber you have to refine dig through some of the worthless ore first.

Maybe make different parts of asteroids targetable so you clear one side of an asteroid of worthless material to get the good stuff at the core. The worthless ore naturally replenishes.

The rareness of the ore, changes the amount of worthless ore mixed in with it. Veldspar would have some but not a huge deal.

sounds like a good idea
and the better the mining module used the more precise the extraction so you get only some useless ore before getting to the center

Adunh Slavy
Ammatar Trade Syndicate
Posted - 2008.02.11 01:20:00 - [266]
 

Originally by: Terranid Meester

Maybe make different parts of asteroids targetable so you clear one side of an asteroid of worthless material to get the good stuff at the core. The worthless ore naturally replenishes.



Overburden is already repersented in the fact that ore sizes increase as the rarity of the minerals increases.

Zey Nadar
Gallente
Unknown Soldiers
Posted - 2008.02.11 10:48:00 - [267]
 

Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/02/2008 10:56:48
Edited by: Zey Nadar on 11/02/2008 10:51:19
Originally by: McFly
oh crap.... dont make mining more tedious than it already is... I'm a PVPer with two mining alts, it's where i make my ISKies... I dont want to spend more time mining that i have to. Managing two Hulks and a Hauler as well as a tank at the same time in 0.0 is tediuos enough, why would I want to find out half the ore in my pos hangar is "fool's crokite" after spending hours mining it.



My thoughts exactly. I started off as a miner and I have been mining on and off for over a year and trying other things too.

What I DONT want is increasing the failure rate of mining/refining from what it currently is. For the life of me I cant see how this would make mining more exciting?! Mining is already tedious enough, especially for starting miners.

Making things harder depending on skill/standing etc is stupid as it means grind for standing/ time wasted getting skills = boring. I cant see how this would make mining more fun.

Instead I think we should focus our attention to FINDING good ore or good deposits or hidden belts. Make different types of belts and maybe large asteroids where there are multiple types of ore. I like the idea of scanning asteroids first, then some skill might affect the propability of finding something rarer. Increase amount of hidden belts and imo increase them in highsec too, just to have people who prefer it slightly safer have something else to do than current highsec mining, diversity. Make it more profitable for those who are willing to spend a bit of extra effort rather than afk-mine. Also of course, make it more profitable for those who are willing to take a bit of risk.
Currently my stern opinion is that lowsec mining for example is far from being worth the risk. We need something in between the highsec mining and whatever they do in 0.0.

Also, Ive been hearing that 0.0 alliances dont need mining as "building blocks" because they get enough minerals from other sources.. Maybe this should be looked at.

Striking Owl
Posted - 2008.02.11 18:29:00 - [268]
 

Edited by: Striking Owl on 11/02/2008 18:31:22
Being a miner myself I find this thread interesting.

What I would like to see as many above have mentioned is:

  • A change in the shape of the belts

  • New ore to mine would be cool

  • Exploration sites that would give me more ore to mine that isn't obvious

  • A reason to use deep core mining and/or a deep core strip miner



Another change I think would be useful that I think was talked about before, is the variable levels of ore quality.

High Sec
I think that veld and scord need to get slightly better as the security goes down, until it hits 0.5 at wich point it maxes where we have it now, +10%.
Introduce plag/pyrox where they are now doing the same as veld.
Introduce Kernite/Omber in 0.5 systems only, but as -20% to -10% varieties.

Exploration sites should only introduce better grades of the same ore they could get anyway, and maybe some really low grade of the next step up.

Low Sec
This is the area of space the empires are still interested in because it has better resources, at least in theory. Let's make this so.

Veld/scord/plag/pyrox/kernite/Omber should be bigger the lower you go. So starting at 0.4 let's see 25% expanding up to 60% in 0.1 systems.

The same thing for Hemo and Hedb but maybe a little smaller, say starting at 10% expanding up to 25% in the 0.1 systems.

The idea being, risk vs. reward. The isk is just laying around, so come get it. Oh yeah, look out for pirates. IMO nothing wrong with pirates or getting popped in a belt. But I don't want to be a sitting duck either. So make it worth the effort to organize a corporate mining op in low sec. Maybe the pirates will have some fun too.

Null Sec
Bump the quality of the ore up a little, not much though. Maybe 10 to 20% above the plain varieties we have now in the -0.1 to -0.3 systems. I wouldn't change anything is systems with lower security. IMO if you are in Null mining Veld as a living, you really should think about things a little more.
Otherwise maybe add some different types if you feel you must, but try not to add too much to the Ark, Crokite, and Bistot because Mega, and Zyd are supposed to be rare after all.

The other thing I think is unbalanced is belt rats. They really should be more intelligent. Tanking them for hours and they never switch targets? It just doesn't seem right somehow. You think that they would radio for backup or something. One of those messages in a window, 'The commander of this squad has sent for backup, you might want to call some of your own.' would be a nice flavor add. Of course, the rats that warp in would target cans and drones, and probably not have a bounty.

Knight Destroyer
Caldari
Redneck Messiahs
Posted - 2008.02.12 18:48:00 - [269]
 

The main thing i would like is a re focus on "to get the msot mins u gotta mine" basically reduce (not a lot but some)the amount of mins u get from reprocessing modules etc

also my biggest thing i enjoy is invention, nothing more fun than mixing items to create something etc etc, risk of losing or reward of getting a nice omponent :)
What im suggesting is make invention more used and widespread.

for example

allow minerals to be mixed (as we do in RL to research new things) and that leads to new minerals. (that to me would be great :)

or if not minerals, maybe you mine 1000m3 veldspar and 2000 scordite, maybe if ur willing to risk losing it you "invent" mix the ore's themselves together and this gives the new minerals because the material make up of the roids could be important to (the brown stuff :)) so the make up (brown stuff) and the minerals within, these 3 things can combine and bring about new minerals...and different ores create different minerals (plag is a black compound if looked at, omber is grey etc) so with the ability to mix not just the minerals but the ore themselves then that opens up way more things

basically what im aiming at is that if we are "redesigning" the roids...why not use them, lets use that brown stuff from scordite and veldspar, the black from plag, the silver from omber etc have them as a byproduct in the reaction of new minerals.


to me this would make mining more fun and get corps specing in mining and such again...like the good ole days :)


-----------
my 2 cents worth

Monk Fish
Posted - 2008.02.12 19:05:00 - [270]
 

Edited by: Monk Fish on 12/02/2008 19:11:01
Ok, with out reading everything that has been said already, because I am a lazy fellow and like the sound of my own keyboard here are my thoughts.

Commets in some form or other, they provide reactions, and you need to follow them to mine. (so you might need to scan for them, which should not be to hard, and then race to them in a fast ship, get ahead and have your corp mates warp to you, and then chase and mine it :) )

I like the idea of Steroid's, but maybe rather than just being massive there excessively dence, and require much much more power, the better the ore the more power they require from your mining lasers (so they work abit like crystals).

Ambush Roids, hey if I was a pirate I would paint my ship like a roid :), come inside said the spider to the fly.

Crystal-Arbite, roids, used to create cutting tools and super tough armour, found in super dence clouds and different types in different colours (rambow), I was thinking about the pressure needed to make these form would be like the mission where you get hit by varying sizes of shock waves.

Brittle Roids, roids that are to brittle to mine with a normal miner, you need to powder them with weapons (drones or wee turrets, as big ones might miss :)), and them sux them up like a cloud :).

Debris Ring, and I do mean ring. The possibility's for these are huge.

Unstable Space, almost every thing is exsotic, but you can not jet can as everything WILL now and then get flug though the nearby worm hole. The closer to the worm hole the better the stuff (bizzar combinations of reactions and ultra rare minerals and gas) but the higher the chance of being flung away (and further). You can get a modue to reduce the effects so you can mine deeper... but it will cost ya.... some obber rare ore... and pwr, cpu'n cap. Set them in 0.4 space and lower, as the systems you end up in random you might have a new player land in 0.0 or a -9.9 security l33t pirate end up in high sec :) in a battle ship fitted with mining lasers :) hurra.

right I will shut up now.

(and for the possibility's of some interesting story lines in the future, adding some strange organic substances that are in some roids would be cool, maybe even 'Ancient roids' that have the possibility of some bones, artefacts and so on. But you can still just mine them if you care not for old things.)

-MF


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