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blankseplocked Jita solution
 
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Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 12:12:00 - [1]
 

This topik should be for gathering ideas to solve the Jita problem.

Please try to avoid talking about servers, data troughput or something about hardware, if this could be a solution, it would have been already solved. Let's try to solve it without changing the whole programming structure or hardware.

Facts:
There are to many players at Jita at the same time

Question: Why?
1) There are a lot of stations with agent's
2) The gate-system does sometimes not allow you to avoid jita, you have to fly through getting from A to B
3) There are a lot of stations with services
4) Jita is one of the most central solar systems, so it's an interesting place for business
5) The hughe amount of players and traders is an interesting target for gate campers and grief players

The Goal:
Moving unneeded players out of Jita.

Solutions:
to 1) this sounds easy to me, move all agents from the Jita to neighbour systems and avoid giving out missions with Jita as target.
to 2) this sounds also easy, create two or three alternative routes to "overjump" Jita for travelers
to 3) hmmm, moving services out of Jita or just reducing the amount of free slots might be a solution. No production in Jita will avoid mineral transports and cause lesser players. You could even remove the ateroid belts from there, so there will be no miners or rat hunters.
to 4) indeed, nice to have, thats what we want and need, this should be supported, not removed!
to 5) There are different solutions.
The easyest way might be making Jita a PVP-free zone. No fight, no greef, no gatecamp!
Next could be a Wormwhole-Jita-Delivery-Service, which you can use (by paying a fee based on the wight or something) to transport goods from and to jita from the neighbor systems. The transport should be INSTANT! (dont make the same error twice by forcing players to WAIT AND STAY in neighbor systems)

Some other ideas or comments?

Kransthow
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
Atlas Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.20 12:44:00 - [2]
 

Apart from routes around jita needed, nothing really needs to be done about jita. It functions well as a trade hub currently and dosen't need any special treatment. If the lag becomes unplayable, people will stop going and will go to other trade hubs.

Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 13:02:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Kransthow
If the lag becomes unplayable, people will stop going and will go to other trade hubs.


Well, the lags are unplayable since months, and in fact, this does not stop people from going there. In the opposite, it becomes ever worse. Maybe routes around Jita is not the only thing to be done, but maybe the first.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2008.01.20 14:38:00 - [4]
 

There is no solution for Jita other than kicking everyone out and making them find another system. In fact the DEVs are tired of putting resources into it only to have moar people show up so they aren't going to do anything about it. If you want to fix Jita, don't go there. It's that simple...really it is.

Aeo IV
Amarr
Xomic OmniCorporation
Posted - 2008.01.20 15:06:00 - [5]
 

I think they should do what they do in City of heroes; when a city section gets over crowded, they double up the section, so, when you go to enter the section a window asks if you want to go to *for example* "Atlas park 1 or Atlas park 2 (and so on)"

CCP could do the same thing, just link the chat so people can talk to one another across systems, and allow people to buy and pick up items from ether area. (If I buy an item from Jita 1, but am in Jita 2, I can still pick up the item in Jita 2.)

Although it's possible that Eve is just programed differently.

Kiiikoooloool
Posted - 2008.01.20 15:14:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Kiiikoooloool on 20/01/2008 15:16:02
in empire, taxes shoud be calculated from the number of players in the system.

Like...
jumping in jita : 10M
docking in jita : 20M
changing prices : 20% of unit price + 100 isks
selling stuff : 20% of transaction
buying stuff: 20% of transaction
insurance payback: taxes
bounties on npc: taxes taxes
mission isk reward and lp rewards: taxes taxes taxes

compared to
jumping in neesher: free
docking in neesher: free
changing prices : free
and so on.

The amount of taxes should'nt be static but dynamic.

Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 15:55:00 - [7]
 

Nice ideas so far.

Originally by: NightF0x
There is no solution for Jita .. In fact the DEVs are tired of putting resources into it ...


If this is true, eve is a dead game.

Anaalys Fluuterby
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.20 16:08:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Toc Rotac
Nice ideas so far.

Originally by: NightF0x
There is no solution for Jita .. In fact the DEVs are tired of putting resources into it ...


If this is true, eve is a dead game.

Then you might as well leave if you feel that way, because they have already said so. That will free up valuable resources for us Twisted Evil

They have already said that they are NOT going to "force" anyone to leave Jita, or alter Eve so Jita is less attractive either because it doesn't work (Jita was formed by the PLAYERS after CCP altered the Game to shut down another hub).

Simply, don't go to Jita. You do NOT have to go there, you chose too. If you don't like the lag, don't go. It is a player issue and the players have to solve it by just not going.

Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 16:22:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

They have already said that they are NOT going to "force" anyone to leave Jita, or alter Eve so Jita is less attractive either because it doesn't work


This is like you rent a car having a broken engine, and the rental service tells you "sorry, we cant help you, it's damaged by the previous driver and we dont asked to drive anywhere."

I dont believe this is the behavior of a respectable company.

Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
Farlight Council
Elitist Cowards
Posted - 2008.01.20 17:37:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Selene Le''Cotiere on 20/01/2008 17:38:23
Originally by: Toc Rotac
Originally by: Anaalys Fluuterby

They have already said that they are NOT going to "force" anyone to leave Jita, or alter Eve so Jita is less attractive either because it doesn't work


This is like you rent a car having a broken engine, and the rental service tells you "sorry, we cant help you, it's damaged by the previous driver and we dont asked to drive anywhere."

I dont believe this is the behavior of a respectable company.
The thing is though, if you read Anaalys' post above, they already forced people to leave Yulai. The problem only resurfaced in Jita.

In nature, and in internet spaceship games, humans are the only creature who will overuse and abuse their environment until the point it can no longer support them or the other indiginous creatures living there. That is the case of Jita today, CCP has given us additional resources to work with in Jita and all we have done is abuse those resources.

So yes, your "respectable company", is still attempting to work on Jita. they have made statements about options for people to avoid the system, and are also working on the server, allowing dynamic load balancing to happen between nodes. Of course, these are only stop gaps in the growth of Jita.

As I said above, we humans are experts at abusing our environmet, while giving little to nothing back in return. The problems of Jita today, will only return tomorrow. The real solution to Jita resides with us, and not CCP. WE, as players, need to adjust our activities.

EDIT: Spelling

Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 18:18:00 - [11]
 

@Le'Cotiere. I fully agree with you!

But that's not the point. Do you like watching the problem move from one solarsystem to another, by telling that this is a problem of humanity? "Broken engine? You are humen, use your feet, but pay the car!"

I made this post to gather ideas, my intensions are not having a philosophic discussion about menkind. (my english is even not good enough for this)

So think about solutions, dont put you head in the sand, until CCP tells us that they realy dont want to fix this in any way.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2008.01.20 18:31:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: Toc Rotac
@Le'Cotiere. I fully agree with you!

But that's not the point. Do you like watching the problem move from one solarsystem to another, by telling that this is a problem of humanity? "Broken engine? You are humen, use your feet, but pay the car!"

I made this post to gather ideas, my intensions are not having a philosophic discussion about menkind. (my english is even not good enough for this)

So think about solutions, dont put you head in the sand, until CCP tells us that they realy dont want to fix this in any way.


You see, we are telling you that the DEVs have already said that they have exhausted their expertise in trying to make Jita better. It is now up to the players to make a difference. The DEVs have doubled the CPU power to Jita, what happened? The player base that went there doubled. They dedicated an entire node just for Jita, what happened? The player base maxed that out. The DEVs can't do any more for Jita until new technology is invented in server technology to improve Jita. And even then it will only be a stop-gap measure until more players pile into Jita to make it an even larger lag fest. It boils down to, if you don't want to lag in Jita then stop going there. I don't know how to make it more clear than that.

Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
Farlight Council
Elitist Cowards
Posted - 2008.01.20 18:41:00 - [13]
 

Oh, my head isn't in the sand here. Also, it isn't my intention to have a philosophical discussion of humanity, but to draw a corralation between the current game enviroment and RL habits.

Regardless of the fixes, limitations, and new toys they throw at a problem, human nature will overrule and we will congregate together.

This goes, not only for Jita, but also blob/fleet warfare. if we want a better gaming experience, we need to adjust OUR habits.

This thread HERE is a prime example of the players taking control and taking the game to a new PVP level, trade hub wars. These guys I repect for their "big brassy ones".

Remember, there are other trade hubs out there. No one, not even CCP, are making you go there for your buisness. There is one of your ideas for fixing jita lag.

Toc Rotac
Posted - 2008.01.20 22:29:00 - [14]
 

Well, i know what you want to tell me, and that link you posted is good one. BTW, did you get the news of hughe traffic-reports and lags at Amarr yesterday?

For myself i realy try to avoid Jita where ever i can and have my base at Tash-Region, but i assume, that the same problems of Jita will also occure at Amarr and Tash-Murkon Prime in a very short time. In my eyes it's just changing the location, but it's not solved. I suppose, CCP likes to grow the comunity, so we will have a second, third and fourth Jita in the short future.

There are only few ways to handle this, one is hardware, next is gamelogic and another is programming logic, ok the human beeing .... Changing the behavior of the humans is a kind of tricky, the hardware usualy is state of the art, the complete programming logic cant be changed that fast, so changing the gamelogic is an effective and cheap way to get some time doing the real changes. That's what i wanted to put in discussion.

If CCP realy leaves us alone with this, we can just sit there and whatch the breakdown of servers, comunity and last but not .... or we can do sugesstions. If they dont want to think about our ideas, well, that's something else and we should close this thread, sit back .... and laugh about arrogance. Maybe it's german mentality not to accept a problem without complete analyzing and trying to solve it (and no, this sentence has has no political background, it's just technical)

Selene Le'Cotiere
Amarr
Farlight Council
Elitist Cowards
Posted - 2008.01.20 23:08:00 - [15]
 

More competing trade hubs are good for the game actually. It gives the shoppers additional choices and helps to spread people out.

If the Amarr and Tash Murkon hubs want to duke it out, great. Same with Jita and Motsu competing for the buyers isk, in fact I'm surprised the Motsu traders are not being more competitive with Jita. Either way, it's all good.

But rest assured, hopefully we will see server improvement when the new server upgrades go live. *crosses fingers*

Tarron Sarek
Gallente
Biotronics Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
Posted - 2008.01.21 00:13:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Tarron Sarek on 21/01/2008 00:28:56
Originally by: Kransthow
If the lag becomes unplayable, people will stop going and will go to other trade hubs.
No they don't.
They will complain about lag and CCP not doing enough to solve it, but still go there. QED

This is a proven fact. It's of no use denying it.

Regarding a solution - well, balance is the solution imho.
Right now Jita simply is superior to other trade hubs.
- It directly connects several large regions with lots of high sec. It's position is very central
- Raven and Drake are the best mission running ships. Achura is the most efficient fighter bloodline. Thus many players play Caldari or have a Caldari mission alt, which leads to a high population density, which creates lots of demand, which creates huge opportunity for traders.

I guess those are the main points.
Taking away one or two direct regional connections would probably already have some of the desired impact.
Making missiles less uber in PvE and making the other races more attractive in the character creation screen could add to that.
Subtle changes, one after another, until it's balanced. No need to make Jita useless.

NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
Posted - 2008.01.21 00:20:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Tarron Sarek
Originally by: Kransthow
If the lag becomes unplayable, people will stop going and will go to other trade hubs.
No they don't.
They will complain about lag and CCP not doing enough to solve it, but still go there. QED

This is a proven fact. It's of no use denying it.


Truer words have never been spoken.

There are 4 major trade hubs in the game, one of them being Jita. That leaves 3 others and chances are, unless you set up shop in Jita, that one of those 3 are closer than what Jita is. And often those hubs have just as good if not better prices than what you find in Jita. Try them out and spread the trading throughout the galaxy.


 

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