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Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:23:00 - [1]
 

Being an old BattleTech fan who has all the original books minus one or 2 and played all the games I started thinking about the way the CLANS used to bid on engagements.

Why ?

Well I was thinking what would happen if EVE was filled with nothing but players that could field any ship they wanted to.
Would they continue to field smaller ships at all.

And of course my memory kicked in I remembered how CLANS bid engagements.
Basically 2 commanders would would bid on what it would take to control a system or planet.

One would start and pick a number and composition.
THe second would UNDERBID or say they could do it with less ships or overall points.

And they would continue to go back and forth until basically one said go for it.

So there was great honor in doing something with less.
And less honor if you go after your enemy with more power then the enemy could deploy.

I have never heard of this happening in EVE or if people even find this remotely interesting.
But it was just a general thought and something I found interesting.

DISCUSS


Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:30:00 - [2]
 

Im not sure I understand you....

Pliskkenn
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:32:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Im not sure I understand you....


Do you look better killing a Battleship in a Battleship, or does it look more impressive if you kill a Battleship in a Frigate?


Richard Phallus
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:32:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Im not sure I understand you....


I played a mechwarrior game once, some of the words he uses seem familiar. Basically I think he wants to make eve into a combat arena where two teams face off with x points worth of ships and fittings for the team. Without the need for economy to supply the ships. I think...

Daelorn
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:33:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Pliskkenn
Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Im not sure I understand you....


Do you look better killing a Battleship in a Battleship, or does it look more impressive if you kill a Battleship in a Frigate?




Pod killing a battleship!

Kia Rash
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:34:00 - [6]
 

well, in eve noone underbids........ EVER

the death penalty isnt to forthcoming for this, also, who would want to take on a pos in a shuttle

and backstabbing is what eve is all about, juat read a few c&p 1vs1 threadsRolling Eyes

we are godlike pod pilots, we dont do stuff for honor, we do it for isk, at the lowest cost possible.

Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:35:00 - [7]
 

To me Killing largerships with smaller ships is somthing that I take great pride in. Even then being able to dispatch an enemyfleety with leess numbers is anotehr thing I enhoy and take pride in. EVE is full of bloobs becuase of this crap abotu safty in numbers...no that just makes you a group of burly men taking on an infant in a playground and gloating about kicking his ass.

Being able to field more men ensures victory majority of teh time...as was the case in our last war. we were out numbered 3 to 1. in most engagements it was 6-9 agianst 2-3 of us. We still took more of them out...

Nicole KholdStare
Gallente
Northstar Syndicate
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:35:00 - [8]
 

Yeah while this is a good idea in theory, well sort of anyway here's what would happen in EvE.
Group X and Y start bidding.
Y outbids X.
Y goes for it.
Z, who has been secretly allied with X, warps in goes: LOLOLOL NOOBS.
Y dies.
X laughs, Z gets loot.
Big lollerskates...

Oh and check my corp history :D

Lord Evangelian
Gallente
The White Mantle
Malum Exuro
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:41:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Nicole KholdStare
Yeah while this is a good idea in theory, well sort of anyway here's what would happen in EvE.
Group X and Y start bidding.
Y outbids X.
Y goes for it.
Z, who has been secretly allied with X, warps in goes: LOLOLOL NOOBS.
Y dies.
X laughs, Z gets loot.
Big lollerskates...

Oh and check my corp history :D


Veto, last I knew of you guys was that you dont blob, you prowl in a gang of 10 looking for other gang sto kill in yoru area. I remember I was going through the Goinard Pipe with a Gang and our scout found your gang in a near by system lol...we werent set up to fight and we wer eon our way to anotehr engage ment...but I know it woudl have been a good fight. We woudl have lost with verone and DE in system...you guys are epic lol

(Ok ill put my thorax away and stop being a fanboi lol)

Pliskkenn
Minmatar
Veto Corp
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:44:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare


Oh and check my corp history :D


Veto, last I knew of you guys was that you dont blob, you prowl in a gang of 10 looking for other gang sto kill in yoru area. I remember I was going through the Goinard Pipe with a Gang and our scout found your gang in a near by system lol...we werent set up to fight and we wer eon our way to anotehr engage ment...but I know it woudl have been a good fight. We woudl have lost with verone and DE in system...you guys are epic lol

(Ok ill put my thorax away and stop being a fanboi lol)


He was refering to the fact we were in Clan Wolf. Mech reference there. :P

Nicole KholdStare
Gallente
Northstar Syndicate
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:46:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Pliskkenn
Originally by: Lord Evangelian
Originally by: Nicole KholdStare


Oh and check my corp history :D


Veto, last I knew of you guys was that you dont blob, you prowl in a gang of 10 looking for other gang sto kill in yoru area. I remember I was going through the Goinard Pipe with a Gang and our scout found your gang in a near by system lol...we werent set up to fight and we wer eon our way to anotehr engage ment...but I know it woudl have been a good fight. We woudl have lost with verone and DE in system...you guys are epic lol

(Ok ill put my thorax away and stop being a fanboi lol)


He was refering to the fact we were in Clan Wolf. Mech reference there. :P


Damn right :D

MenanceWhite
Amarr
Emi Raaf's Corporation
Posted - 2008.01.18 18:53:00 - [12]
 

You do not have enough carriers to proceed with the attack.
Build additional carriers.

Fenderson
Posted - 2008.01.18 19:54:00 - [13]
 

its a nice thought, but would only work in conjunction with instancing all fights. Instancing is something that goes against the basic design concept of eve.

Del Narveux
Dukes of Hazard
Posted - 2008.01.18 20:11:00 - [14]
 

That would make for a truly awesome tournament.

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.01.18 20:16:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Korizan on 18/01/2008 20:21:35
Originally by: Fenderson
its a nice thought, but would only work in conjunction with instancing all fights. Instancing is something that goes against the basic design concept of eve.


NO reason to instance it.
Yes that means there could be unknowns and that is EVE.

And no this won't ever happen across the board as several have pointed out there are some who feel that winning is everything regardless of what you use to attain it.

However this is perhaps a bit to much RP for most.
But it could work very well into the EVE universe and requires no change to EVE itself.
In reality it is nothing more then changing the way you use your sandbox.

You could look @ CVA as an example.
What they do is far from the norm of EVE but it still works.

And besides it was just thought.

And to those who talk about POD Pilots being DEMIGOD's

Well the Machwarrior s were as well.
WHich is why it works so well.
It was a battle of GODS and they acted like it.
NOt a bunch peasents with mob tactics.



WulfWestphal
Minmatar
Niflhel
Posted - 2008.01.18 20:45:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: WulfWestphal on 18/01/2008 20:51:47
i think the idea itself is great, but very few players would support it. i could see it in RP corps and alliances that go against similar groups but the average eve player/corp/alliance would simply backstab.

honour and pride are words that can have a whole different meaning to different people. :)

sidenote: IIRC did the bidding took place, while "throwing the visual representations of battlegroups at a piece of wood or the wall". clarified: they had shurikens with the unit number and what it was and threw it. the other commander could break a few spikes from his shuriken to reduce the number and threw it too. some tried to hit the shuriken of the other commander. well it had a meaning and it made sense not to throw the whole army at a planet if a smaller force could get it done and safe the rest for future targets.

in a RP-corp/alliance with military structure this would definatly be fun. :)

edit: while we are at it... "circle of equals" if a commander wants to spare the life of his troop/army/whatever he could challenge the opposing commander to a duel - one of the commanders could state the means (what equipment) the other one could state the place (no commander decided both, thats why its called "circle of equals" cause the terrain as well as the equipment could have huge impact on the outcome of the battle - they had to choose wisely).

Leandro Salazar
Quam Singulari
Posted - 2008.01.18 21:04:00 - [17]
 

The problem is:
The clans' whole society is based (more or less) on an honor code, and if you backstab or otherwise behave dishonerably, you suffer serious repercussions and become an outcast.
EVE's society is based (more or less) on backastabbing and dishonor, and if you follow some sort of honor code you suffer some serious repercussions and are more or less an outcast.

The two are just not compatible.

Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.01.18 21:17:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Korizan on 18/01/2008 21:32:41
Originally by: WulfWestphal
Edited by: WulfWestphal on 18/01/2008 20:51:47
i think the idea itself is great, but very few players would support it. i could see it in RP corps and alliances that go against similar groups but the average eve player/corp/alliance would simply backstab.

honour and pride are words that can have a whole different meaning to different people. :)

sidenote: IIRC did the bidding took place, while "throwing the visual representations of battlegroups at a piece of wood or the wall". clarified: they had shurikens with the unit number and what it was and threw it. the other commander could break a few spikes from his shuriken to reduce the number and threw it too. some tried to hit the shuriken of the other commander. well it had a meaning and it made sense not to throw the whole army at a planet if a smaller force could get it done and safe the rest for future targets.

in a RP-corp/alliance with military structure this would definatly be fun. :)

edit: while we are at it... "circle of equals" if a commander wants to spare the life of his troop/army/whatever he could challenge the opposing commander to a duel - one of the commanders could state the means (what equipment) the other one could state the place (no commander decided both, thats why its called "circle of equals" cause the terrain as well as the equipment could have huge impact on the outcome of the battle - they had to choose wisely).


You got the idea.

Now one of the coolest things I ever saw was in the trailer for REvelations where to fleets were approaching each other at a planet for a battle.
Now that very picture it what I dream of when I think of fleet battles in EVE.

THe problem however is it doesn't exist.
THe question is how do you make it happen.
THe current system will not work because you can only jump a max of 100 KM away from a fleet.
So the question is if CCP stuck 2 bookmarks in every system about 300 to 500KM away from each other would people use them ?
THe advantage would be that you could effectively load both fleets on the same grid without engaging right away.
And well if you jumped to the wrong spot well .
Instant death ?


Korizan
Hysterically Unforgiving
Posted - 2008.01.18 21:22:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
The problem is:
The clans' whole society is based (more or less) on an honor code, and if you backstab or otherwise behave dishonerably, you suffer serious repercussions and become an outcast.
EVE's society is based (more or less) on backastabbing and dishonor, and if you follow some sort of honor code you suffer some serious repercussions and are more or less an outcast.

The two are just not compatible.


I am not talking about a direct transplant.
THat is too radical a change nor do I think it could be done effectively @ any rate this is EVE not Mechwarrior.

It is more like taking the ideal and merging it into EVE to bring more life and depth (hmm or death) Confused

It is about creating more oppertunity for PVP.
IF one side is always overpowered the other side will run away and both sides have no fun.
Just thinking of ways to make people want to PvP.



Sainna
Minmatar
Endless Possibilities Inc.
Ushra'Khan
Posted - 2008.01.18 21:39:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Leandro Salazar
The problem is:
EVE's society is based (more or less) on backastabbing and dishonor...

The two are just not compatible.



I don't agree with this unless you are referring to just Pirates,griefers, and high sec gankers. I haven't seen any backstabbing or dishonorable acts as you mentioned. I read about it all the time in the forums though.


To: OP
Trying to get players in Eve to follow the clanner warrior caste of BattleTech is IMO - unattainable. If any, you would have a select few that knows the history and lives in the Classic days, like myself. Like you said, RP corps could pick this up and while the way of the warrior would be honored by only those RP corps, other corps/alliances wouldn't care one bit.

Just my 2 cents.

---

shady trader
Posted - 2008.01.18 22:56:00 - [21]
 

something like this may work during factional warfare with the additional rewards that are being discussed with medals etc. Each side will what hero's they can use for propiganda both to there own people for recruitment and to effect the moral of their enermies.

So having a player takes steps to reduce the number of people killed and beating a larger enermy could be spinned by the factions to show how humain, valent and skilled they are compared to there enermy who slorters every one without regard to life and are a bunch of jack booted thugs.

The faction warfare could have something like the batchcall, were the defender declares the forces they are willing to use to defind the target, the attacking commanders then can bid as to the size of the attacking force. Would work well with ambiance, as you could face of in a station first before the attacking force is dispatched. The empires would taken action again those that cheap as they would not want concord and the other factions to beleive that they are cannot be trusted.

Another way would be a combat league, a set of longer running campanship tounaments (months), were teams fight there way up the score board's. Each ship has a points value, each league has a points band. Teams are then pitted against each other based on there standings in the league, one is chosen at random to be the defender, who choise there ships and releave the total points value to the other team, they can then match or underbid the size of the force. The problem will be balancing, you would been a sort of mech force value for each ship and module to work out the total value of each fitted ship.

Billy Sastard
Amarr
Life. Universe. Everything.
Posted - 2008.01.19 00:15:00 - [22]
 

OP: You lost me when you use the word 'honor'. I cannot find a definition of this word/concept in my EVE encyclopedia...

Maraude Fury
It's A Trap
It's A Trap Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.19 02:13:00 - [23]
 

Comeing from a BIG Battletech fan, one who has a Clan Wolf unit patch tattoo'd below my Gurista Bunny Tattoo, i'd love it to be this way, but as many have stated, it's just not possible in the form that Eve has.

If the Developers ever decided to clean it up, and allow folks to see what accounts are linked via IP(You check Maraude Fury's info, and it shows my other accounts char's). Just wouldnt' work.

Though you can probobly use some of the clans promotion tactics inside your corp/alliance.

WulfWestphal
Minmatar
Niflhel
Posted - 2008.01.19 12:06:00 - [24]
 

there is one more thing you have to take into account.
the first engagements of the clans against the inner sphere, as the inner sphere commanders realized the battle doctrines of the clans. the bidding system as well es the batchall were most of the time exploited as hell. the clans would bid and the inner sphere blobbed them. till a point where the clans offered batchall only in special circumstances.

you could say it was much like most of the posters said here. :) the clan would fight honourable and the eve-players/inner sphere would backstab.

ah well. its a nice idea which i fully support but would work only with arranged corps/alliances. perhaps someone starts something like that, and i guess then it can work. :)

Linerra Tedora
Amarr
Faulcon de Lazy
Posted - 2008.01.19 12:41:00 - [25]
 

oh how i'd love to be in an rp corp like the clans...

always been a big fan of honour, and honour societies, and the clans in a way embrace it well.

Of course true honour societies are quite rare in eve. Just try and see how many you would allow to test fly your mothership.

imagine getting enough players together to form the entire clans, and then starting to invade empire systems one by one. Enter one system, wardec those that have offices there, and challenge them to combat. THen move on to the next system after a week. Very Happy

WulfWestphal
Minmatar
Niflhel
Posted - 2008.01.19 13:03:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Linerra Tedora

imagine getting enough players together to form the entire clans, and then starting to invade empire systems one by one. Enter one system, wardec those that have offices there, and challenge them to combat. THen move on to the next system after a week. Very Happy


ah but you would have to challenge them to surrenderand becoming part of the clans to finace the further engagements. and you would have to provide security for the corps that surrendered (miners, missionrunners, etc.). that would be a truly massive logistic effort.

you would need really large numbers of pilots and you would need true loyality. you would have to transport an idea and honour it to the end. you would have to stay to the course even it looks bad and you couldnt act like a moron if you win. i guess forum warriors wouldnt fit in it all and whiners or smacktalkers would destroy the idea in the eyes of other pilots fairly fast.

but for a theoretical idea its nice and compelling. :)

Richard Phallus
Posted - 2008.01.19 13:03:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Linerra Tedora

Of course true honour societies are quite rare in eve. Just try and see how many you would allow to test fly your mothership.
You could build an honour based society in eve, just only include people that you life with in a few blocks of your home. Now if any one breeches the rules of the society they can be taken into the woods and removed from the tribe.
Originally by: Linerra Tedora

imagine getting enough players together to form the entire clans, and then starting to invade empire systems one by one. Enter one system, wardec those that have offices there, and challenge them to combat. THen move on to the next system after a week. Very Happy
That also sounds like a fun idea, until some precentage of the corps get together, arrange a battle through one corp then blob you en masse by surprise, crashing a highsec node.Razz

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2008.01.19 13:07:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Nicole KholdStare
Yeah while this is a good idea in theory, well sort of anyway here's what would happen in EvE.
Group X and Y start bidding.
Y outbids X.
Y goes for it.
Z, who has been secretly allied with X, warps in goes: LOLOLOL NOOBS.
Y dies.
X laughs, Z gets loot.
Big lollerskates...

Oh and check my corp history :D



I love EvE.


 

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