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Cautet
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2008.01.14 12:41:00 - [31]
 


You are only 30km from a gate, in a drake!

Apart from the fact that you can shoot the drones, why not head over to the gate and jump through, or even better hope they come close to web or bump you. That is if you fitted a mwd and web. If you didn't its a pve fit and this thread is pointless, and should be changed to:

"How I managed to kill an expensive supposedly overpowered T2 PVP ship in my PVE fitted T1 BC?"

Raxxius Maelstrom
Posted - 2008.01.14 12:41:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Diomidis
All these ppl crying about nano-ships' "uber" survivability fail to ever check the killboards - right?


I'd like to point out a minor issue here.

90% of the Vaga kills I see, the highest damager is another Vagabond. The implication is that if you want to kill a nano you need a nano.


Squatdog
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.01.14 13:36:00 - [33]
 

why not head over to the gate and jump through, or even better hope they come close to web or bump you.

I'm guessing this is a troll...

The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.

Why, sure they would let themselves get into webbing range to bump me off the gate when I'm already jammed! Thanks for playing!

That is if you fitted a mwd and web. If you didn't its a pve fit and this thread is pointless, and should be changed to blah blah blah...

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?


Harlequ1n
The Hegemonising Swarm
Posted - 2008.01.14 13:40:00 - [34]
 

'I'm guessing this is a troll...

The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.'

Lol, I'm gonna enjoy the responses to this...

'Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?'

In the same way that game mechanics aren't yours?

L70Rogue
State War Academy
Posted - 2008.01.14 13:43:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom
Edited by: arbalesttom on 14/01/2008 11:14:51
I really think are making a bit of fun here, there is a good reason the dev's announced to look at speed again, maybe because it IS overpowered (and no, dont come with the lame argument of 'see, the whiners won' because everone should know thats not the case at all, ccp does what they have to do anyway...)?

There are good options for countering nanohacs, verry true: Shoot there drones, heavy neuts, triangle, minmatar eas/recon, trackingdisruptors etc.
Problem is, most of the mods you can counter nanohacs with are pretty 'uncommon to use in pvp because of fittingproblems' like heavy neuts, or dont have any basic effect on them like 10km webber II range (so no, dont come with the argument fit a faction webber, because that shouldnt be mandatory). Same with the tactics, you just need that extra buddy when you get engaged by a nanohac to make a 'little more chance' to kill him at all, or yeah, you just should be able to fly those minmatar eas/recons...wich not much people can.

I know alot of people using nano nowadays and it just IS imbalanced in some way: If you would fight a tanked ishtar for example in a ship you have a more 'fair' chance of destroying him. If you fight a nanoship, in alot of cases you dont have ANY chance of destroying him at all (or before his buddies arive). Vagas can effectively 'bleed' setups and alot of nanoishtarsetups are 'pretty easy to make them go away' by killing the drones, but that doesnt take away they can hold you there and wait for his friends to arrive.

Face it guys, speed STILL is overpowered on alot of non-minmatar ships, and tbh minmatar ships are PRETTY BALANCED with it because speed is there thing.

I know i will get flamed for this post, but at least i have the devs giving me backup on this matter, that DOES say something imhoWink


QFT

Zirconium Blade
Ass Pounding Space Monkeys
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:06:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Zirconium Blade on 14/01/2008 14:08:00
Edited by: Zirconium Blade on 14/01/2008 14:07:12
Originally by: Squatdog


The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.






Did you mean a Jump Jammer? Cause nano-ships usually have one of those... And thats why they're truly overpowered. Because their victims dont know game mechanics.

arbalesttom
Mercurialis Inc.
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:10:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: L70Rogue
Originally by: arbalesttom
Edited by: arbalesttom on 14/01/2008 11:14:51
I really think are making a bit of fun here, there is a good reason the dev's announced to look at speed again, maybe because it IS overpowered (and no, dont come with the lame argument of 'see, the whiners won' because everone should know thats not the case at all, ccp does what they have to do anyway...)?

There are good options for countering nanohacs, verry true: Shoot there drones, heavy neuts, triangle, minmatar eas/recon, trackingdisruptors etc.
Problem is, most of the mods you can counter nanohacs with are pretty 'uncommon to use in pvp because of fittingproblems' like heavy neuts, or dont have any basic effect on them like 10km webber II range (so no, dont come with the argument fit a faction webber, because that shouldnt be mandatory). Same with the tactics, you just need that extra buddy when you get engaged by a nanohac to make a 'little more chance' to kill him at all, or yeah, you just should be able to fly those minmatar eas/recons...wich not much people can.

I know alot of people using nano nowadays and it just IS imbalanced in some way: If you would fight a tanked ishtar for example in a ship you have a more 'fair' chance of destroying him. If you fight a nanoship, in alot of cases you dont have ANY chance of destroying him at all (or before his buddies arive). Vagas can effectively 'bleed' setups and alot of nanoishtarsetups are 'pretty easy to make them go away' by killing the drones, but that doesnt take away they can hold you there and wait for his friends to arrive.

Face it guys, speed STILL is overpowered on alot of non-minmatar ships, and tbh minmatar ships are PRETTY BALANCED with it because speed is there thing.

I know i will get flamed for this post, but at least i have the devs giving me backup on this matter, that DOES say something imhoWink


QFT


Im not ****ing trolling here, i just trying to point something out. Please, i was prepared to get flamed on this, so come on with some good counter-arguments please.

And at least i have the devs behind me, because they think nano is 'still' overpowered, they gonna 'nerf' it again. Doesnt that say enough???

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:12:00 - [38]
 

Originally by: Squatdog
The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
'Warp Jammer' (...) jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
'Warp' (...) jump.





no wonder he managed to kill you guys.


Laughing








unless you meant "I couldn't WARP OUT."

Hephaesteus
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:16:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: arbalesttom
Originally by: L70Rogue
Originally by: arbalesttom
Edited by: arbalesttom on 14/01/2008 11:14:51
I really think are making a bit of fun here, there is a good reason the dev's announced to look at speed again, maybe because it IS overpowered (and no, dont come with the lame argument of 'see, the whiners won' because everone should know thats not the case at all, ccp does what they have to do anyway...)?

There are good options for countering nanohacs, verry true: Shoot there drones, heavy neuts, triangle, minmatar eas/recon, trackingdisruptors etc.
Problem is, most of the mods you can counter nanohacs with are pretty 'uncommon to use in pvp because of fittingproblems' like heavy neuts, or dont have any basic effect on them like 10km webber II range (so no, dont come with the argument fit a faction webber, because that shouldnt be mandatory). Same with the tactics, you just need that extra buddy when you get engaged by a nanohac to make a 'little more chance' to kill him at all, or yeah, you just should be able to fly those minmatar eas/recons...wich not much people can.

I know alot of people using nano nowadays and it just IS imbalanced in some way: If you would fight a tanked ishtar for example in a ship you have a more 'fair' chance of destroying him. If you fight a nanoship, in alot of cases you dont have ANY chance of destroying him at all (or before his buddies arive). Vagas can effectively 'bleed' setups and alot of nanoishtarsetups are 'pretty easy to make them go away' by killing the drones, but that doesnt take away they can hold you there and wait for his friends to arrive.

Face it guys, speed STILL is overpowered on alot of non-minmatar ships, and tbh minmatar ships are PRETTY BALANCED with it because speed is there thing.

I know i will get flamed for this post, but at least i have the devs giving me backup on this matter, that DOES say something imhoWink


QFT


Im not ****ing trolling here, i just trying to point something out. Please, i was prepared to get flamed on this, so come on with some good counter-arguments please.

And at least i have the devs behind me, because they think nano is 'still' overpowered, they gonna 'nerf' it again. Doesnt that say enough???


He was agreeing with you Wink

Diomidis
Pod Liberation Authority
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:20:00 - [40]
 

Edited by: Diomidis on 14/01/2008 14:20:30
Originally by: Squatdog
why not head over to the gate and jump through, or even better hope they come close to web or bump you.

I'm guessing this is a troll...

The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.

Why, sure they would let themselves get into webbing range to bump me off the gate when I'm already jammed! Thanks for playing!

That is if you fitted a mwd and web. If you didn't its a pve fit and this thread is pointless, and should be changed to blah blah blah...

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?


Ehmm...
Talking of "reading comprehension"...
Warp Jammers prevent you from WARPING - > moving within a solar system...jumping is achieved by getting within the jump range of each and every STARGATE...

Understanding certain game mechanics is essential.
And Yes, Nano ships are powerful, so beating them requires some thought and real knowledge of "how eve PvP works"

Yes - I know that most Vaga kills include Vagas into their pursuers. Just like ceptors etc. But other HASes like Sacs or precision loaded Cerbs can do it too. Ranged recons like the webifing minies or the Curse also shine, but it's still possible for a neuting BS to really make things hard or even take it down solo.

Ursula LeGuinn
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:22:00 - [41]
 

Originally by: Squatdog
...who abuse game imbalances to be invincible to guns or missiles.


Originally by: Popular Sig
Please visit your user settings to re-enable images.

Ungakola
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:25:00 - [42]
 

Lets say that nano-hacs is getting taken away from the game, then the people will just roam around in battleships with 100m of nice fitting, think it will be much better?

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.01.14 14:26:00 - [43]
 

Originally by: Ungakola
Lets say that nano-hacs is getting taken away from the game, then the people will just roam around in battleships with 100m of nice fitting, think it will be much better?


you forgot the bit about spider tankingRazz

Cautet
Celestial Apocalypse
Posted - 2008.01.14 15:19:00 - [44]
 

Edited by: Cautet on 14/01/2008 15:19:37
Originally by: Squatdog
[b]

I'm guessing this is a troll...

Etc Etc

Reading comprehension isn't your strong point, is it?




Others have explained how it will work.

Actually I was just trying to help you pvp in your drake better.

McDonALTs
Posted - 2008.01.14 15:27:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Hephaesteus
Originally by: arbalesttom
Originally by: L70Rogue
Originally by: arbalesttom
Edited by: arbalesttom on 14/01/2008 11:14:51
I really think are making a bit of fun here, there is a good reason the dev's announced to look at speed again, maybe because it IS overpowered (and no, dont come with the lame argument of 'see, the whiners won' because everone should know thats not the case at all, ccp does what they have to do anyway...)?

There are good options for countering nanohacs, verry true: Shoot there drones, heavy neuts, triangle, minmatar eas/recon, trackingdisruptors etc.
Problem is, most of the mods you can counter nanohacs with are pretty 'uncommon to use in pvp because of fittingproblems' like heavy neuts, or dont have any basic effect on them like 10km webber II range (so no, dont come with the argument fit a faction webber, because that shouldnt be mandatory). Same with the tactics, you just need that extra buddy when you get engaged by a nanohac to make a 'little more chance' to kill him at all, or yeah, you just should be able to fly those minmatar eas/recons...wich not much people can.

I know alot of people using nano nowadays and it just IS imbalanced in some way: If you would fight a tanked ishtar for example in a ship you have a more 'fair' chance of destroying him. If you fight a nanoship, in alot of cases you dont have ANY chance of destroying him at all (or before his buddies arive). Vagas can effectively 'bleed' setups and alot of nanoishtarsetups are 'pretty easy to make them go away' by killing the drones, but that doesnt take away they can hold you there and wait for his friends to arrive.

Face it guys, speed STILL is overpowered on alot of non-minmatar ships, and tbh minmatar ships are PRETTY BALANCED with it because speed is there thing.

I know i will get flamed for this post, but at least i have the devs giving me backup on this matter, that DOES say something imhoWink


QFT


Im not ****ing trolling here, i just trying to point something out. Please, i was prepared to get flamed on this, so come on with some good counter-arguments please.

And at least i have the devs behind me, because they think nano is 'still' overpowered, they gonna 'nerf' it again. Doesnt that say enough???


He was agreeing with you Wink


QFT













Or is it?

Jonny MoJo
Amarr
Posted - 2008.01.14 15:28:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ungakola
Lets say that nano-hacs is getting taken away from the game, then the people will just roam around in battleships with 100m of nice fitting, think it will be much better?


you forgot the bit about spider tankingRazz


you forgot that relience on spider tanking is boost to Amarr Neuts, and hence the curse.


Xaen
Caldari
Aperture Harmonics
K162
Posted - 2008.01.14 15:36:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: r0b0to
no, no.. as a drone user i advice you not to shoot at drones.
keep trying to hit the hac, you'll kill it sooner or later.



Very Happy
He's right, don't listen to them, shoot the HAC!

Kruel
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:00:00 - [48]
 

I fly a nano curse and nano ishtar. If I go solo against BC or higher and they start shooting my drones, I pull em in and leave. That should tell ya something.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:14:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 16:14:39
Originally by: Xaen

Very HappyHe's right, don't listen to them, shoot the HAC!


Yes, shoot the HAC! Laughing

Caffeine Junkie
Alpha-Strike
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:45:00 - [50]
 

Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 14/01/2008 16:49:06
Edited by: Caffeine Junkie on 14/01/2008 16:46:17
I have something that will rip any nano-hac apart (excluding the fastest faction vagas).

....but i'm keeping it to myself! Mwah!


But it can be done, think outside the box.

MITSUK0
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:52:00 - [51]
 

weeeee

People are still dying to nano-cruisers? Laughing It's even funnier when they are nano-cruisers that rely on drones for dps Laughing

Tashiell Gao
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:54:00 - [52]
 

vega won't hurt you if you can't hurt him. kill ishtar's drones and tell him "orbit around me b*tch!"
nanos are really noob killers. Laughing
they got no tank, no dmg, no gang support....

Tashiell Gao
Caldari
FinFleet
Raiden.
Posted - 2008.01.14 16:57:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Squatdog
The Curse had a thing called a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
a 'Warp Jammer', hence I couldn't jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
'Warp Jammer' (...) jump.


Originally by: Squatdog
'Warp' (...) jump.





no wonder he managed to kill you guys.


Laughing








unless you meant "I couldn't WARP OUT."


i ll pay you 1mil/year to work for me, god, you must be heaven send.Razz

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:01:00 - [54]
 

I had a very fun fight against a nano-Ishtar last week. I saw him on scan, so I sat my Drake in a belt, surrounded by roids, as a nice juicy target. And sure enough, he soon warped in at 20 km or so and deployed drones.

I started to chew through the drones whilst manoeuvring around roids, watching his location and velocity carefully. Soon enough, he slowed (not sure if he hit a roid or just wanted to conserve cap), and a quick MWD pulse saw the Ishtar webbed and scrammed.

I was using Terror HAMs for the Drake's damage bonus, as I was most concerned about killing the drones quickly, so the natural resists of the Ishtar gave him a lot of EHP. But that would probably have only delayed his fate. The real problem came from my complete cap death. I was low on cap from MWDing in the belt, and he just neuted away my web and scram and returned to ~20 km.

With my hardeners, tackle and MWD neuted away, I realised that I wasn't going to win, so I called in a couple of corpmates from next door. The Ishtar pilot took one look at the Rapier, and warped off, having lost a good ~5-10 mill in drones. Smile

IMO speed is generally okay. In terms of tank and gank, HACs are completely outclassed by tier 2 BC, so a big nerf would obsolete them. The problem is really with very fast fits - so a slight reduction in the mass reduction factor of polycarbons, maybe making them the same as (or slightly inferior to) the module equivalents would improve balance, maybe a slight tweak to Snakes also?

Clavius XIV
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:39:00 - [55]
 

Originally by: Squatdog
Where can I get some of these Webber IIs with 20km range? They would have really come in handy!



You fly a drake so you are halfway there already.

1) Plug in a skirmish warfare mindlink implant (cheap, under 10mil isk generally),
2) Fit a skirmish warfare link- interdicton maneuvers to the last high on your drake (conviently on sale on the market in the region you were in, again very cheap)
3) Train up thermodynamics

You have 18km T2 webs for yourself and everyone in your gang. Downside is this is a lot of training, but its not expensive ISK wise.

Exploting the advantages of speed has been with us since dual mwd ravens and ruptures. Even if it gets nerfed in its current form, someone else will find a way to make it work. Training to counter it is an investment you won't regret.

Mattadore
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:44:00 - [56]
 

You could not jump because he had a warp jammer...

BAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!! HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAHAAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! REEETAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRD!!!!!!!!!!

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:50:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Jonny MoJo
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Ungakola
Lets say that nano-hacs is getting taken away from the game, then the people will just roam around in battleships with 100m of nice fitting, think it will be much better?


you forgot the bit about spider tankingRazz


you forgot that relience on spider tanking is boost to Amarr Neuts, and hence the curse.




untill you get blown'd up some 5 seconds later after you entered in the battlefield, because you don't have the tank nor the buffer to whitstand some 20 battleships shooting the crap out of ya.

back to the "CBC/BS/cap/supercap ship only" pvp.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:51:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Gypsio III

IMO speed is generally okay. In terms of tank and gank, HACs are completely outclassed by tier 2 BC, so a big nerf would obsolete them. The problem is really with very fast fits - so a slight reduction in the mass reduction factor of polycarbons, maybe making them the same as (or slightly inferior to) the module equivalents would improve balance, maybe a slight tweak to Snakes also?


This, basically. I mean, nerf their speed significantly and they're pointless. When both are in webrange, which would you prefer to fly? The Tier 2 BC (or even some good Tier 1 ones, like the Brutix/Cyclone) or the gank&tank HAC?

I'll always pick flying the BC if I'm going to do that; I definitely don't see a reason to fly a uninsurable 100M ship when a insurable 30M ship does the trick just fine.

Ofc, if nano-ing wasn't possible and there was no need for the higher tracking medium guns, I'd just fly a double-webbig AC pest and forget BCs altogether.

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:57:00 - [59]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 14/01/2008 17:59:49
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Jonny MoJo

you forgot that relience on spider tanking is boost to Amarr Neuts, and hence the curse.




untill you get blown'd up some 5 seconds later after you entered in the battlefield, because you don't have the tank nor the buffer to whitstand some 20 battleships shooting the crap out of ya.

back to the "CBC/BS/cap/supercap ship only" pvp.


Problem? Non-nano Curse neuting someone.

Solution? Just murder it already.

I got to kill a Pilgrim a couple of days ago with a Rax, a Ruppy (me) and a SB. He neuted the Thorax so it didn't menage to do a lot of damage, but overloaded Ruppy (with the Thorax's drones and the SB help) just tears a 800mm plate+MAR tank straight off. Didn't even reach structure, and got to warp off before his friend in a Kronos came in ;)

Now, imagine a recon ship showing up in a bigger gang fight and not nano-ed in 20km range. I'll be the first one to call it primary to both cause the hostile gang a lot of damage and to remove the annoying neut/whichever effect plus to get rid of the incoming DPS.

Hardtail
Ever Flow
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2008.01.14 17:59:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Squatdog
...who abuse game imbalances to be invincible to guns or missiles.

Today I engaged in a skirmish as a Drake/Megathron gang vs. an Ishtar/Curse (plus another Ishtar that arrived later). We killed the Ishtar pretty easily because he strayed back into Warp Jammer range after MWDing away in armor and got chewed up before he could create space to warp out.

So it was 2v1 against the Nano Curse.

The two of us just COULDN'T HURT HIM with guns, missiles, drones or harsh language. I tanked the Curse for a good couple of minutes (until his support arrived) but we literally couldn't do any appreciable damage whatsoever.

At the end of the engagement, Megathron escaped and I retained my pod, so I felt losing a 30m Drake in exchange for a 120m HAC was a good trade-off (especially seeing I get mine replaced for free).

...............................

Now the crux of the matter is how to deal with Nano HACs?

They never get close enough to Web, which rules that out and finding a celestial body to ram them into isn't practical in most cases.

My new HAC-stomping scheme involves fitting a bunch of Heavy Neuts to **** their capacitor (I only contributed a quarter of the total damage anyway)

Any suggestions?




so you took out a 120m ( probably more ) piece of machinery, for a 30 mil drake.

and you're asking how to beat them? you already did dum dum

you *****slapped their wallet ^ .^


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