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Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.13 12:58:00 - [1]
 

It looks to me like there are differing opinions on just how much money the InterStellar Kredit is worth. I've seen people discussing the ISK as the "people on the street" currency, with waiters getting paid 10 ISK an hour, for example, and others viewing it as a macro-scale "Big Money" currency that's pretty much confined to bulk trade and transit.

let's find out which is more accurate shall we?

We know that the Rifter is about the same size as a Boeing 747, and currently sells for about 250,000 ISK pretty much everywhere in the game. Being heavily armed as it is, I'd say the closest modern approximation would be the AC-130U "Spooky" Gunship

Fortunately, the US Air Force's website is kind enough to list the per-unit cost of the AC-130U as being $190 million (check the factsheet at the bottom). This is fairly basic maths - we divide the number of dollars by the number of ISK, (190,000,000/250,000 = 760) yielding a figure of US$760 per ISK. That translates to 387.91 Pounds.

I think we can rule out the ISK as pocket change then. Waiters, in my experience, don't get paid 3,900 pounds an hour.

Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.13 13:37:00 - [2]
 

This fails to take into account the availability of technology and production costs that are available in the era that EVE takes place in... however, those numbers seem appropriate so I may just be nitpicking.

This also makes the value of some "General Goods" products extremely controversial.

Apparently, basic Dairy products are more expensive than a small car.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.01.13 14:56:00 - [3]
 

My view is that ISK is "big money". It is a monetary unit setup by an international organization to enable trade between the major powers.

Lets take the Dairy Product as an example.

At 400 kg / 0.5 m3 this is equivalent to 500 L of Dairy Product. Thus a liter of milk is roughly 3.33 ISK / liter. So that is a huge number for dairy products. Then again the milk is all probably dehydrated in order to allow transport and to allow it to keep well. So the amount you get out of the 500 L of powder could be fair more. That creates an almost 1 for 1 verse some modern currencys.

But I think drawing directly on real world cost for the cost of the products in the Eve Cluster will mislead us. I think the cost of a Rifter in EVE is probably less than the cost of a military aircraft in the year 2008. A liter of milk is the same cost/more expensive than the most basic mineral used in the ships construction.

But at the same time think of how much it cost to get milk to the spacefarer or even the station bound. Almost as much energy and construction cost has to be spent in bringing those products to orbit and the first station that it does for the lone miner to go to the nearest Veldspar asteroid and suck on it.
---
In the end I think there are national currencies in the Amarr Empire and the Gallente Federation. I suspect that the Caldari Corporations have internal currency. For the planet bound employee this is fine since the Megacorp most likely owns vast quantities of the businesses located there and the various other corporations nearby probably accept the others currency with a slight markup due to having to exchange it.

For the Minmatar, whose state came into exist with the Yulai Convention I would almost expect them to be using ISK in day to day transactions. It is a strong currency linked to the other 3 powers ensuring it does not collapse. This is not a slight against the Minmatar, just speculation since they are a growing nation that not more than a few hundred years ago was firmly under the Amarrian system. Also buying products for 0.50 isk does not matter much if you are using digital money.

The above is trying to limit the number of currencies and there it the possibility that individual systems, planets, or even moons have their own currency for which they do their day to day business of buying things like lunch and furniture.

Brachis
Caldari
Eve Liberation Force
OWN Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.13 16:28:00 - [4]
 

The fact that you can make one hundredth of an ISK transactions would imply that those levels of currency would be valuable, if not to pod pilots, at least to someone.

I believe the comparison of the Euro, American Dollar, or British Pound to, say, a single Yen would be very similar to comparing an ISK to any of those three. Something that costs a dollar for an American to buy costs hundreds of yen in Japan.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.13 18:10:00 - [5]
 

I'll confess to choosing one of the easier parallels between EVE and the real world. I initially tried to calculate it using consumer electronics, but the problem there is that "consumer electronics" can mean anything between a cheap MP3 player worth twenty pounds and a full home cinema system with a big plasma TV, surround sound and a games console worth ten thousand.

While I agree that an AC-130U would probably be really quite cheap to produce in EVE, we should probably bear in mind that the Rifter is in turn fitted with neural control circuitry, shielding, nanobot repair systems and a functioning warp drive, all of which probably compensate for the difference in technology.

Basically, I wanted to open the field for discussion. I've seen roleplayers discussing the ISK as wage-slave levels of pay (the 10 ISK an hour example above) and more. Strikes me that we could do with establishing a concrete sense of just what the currency is worth, if that's happening.

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.01.13 20:15:00 - [6]
 

Edited by: Dex Nederland on 13/01/2008 20:14:53
I agree fully (been in that same discussion ;) ) and it would be interesting to establish a basic cost of goods and what it does take to just live day to day for the none pod pilot in the Eve Cluster.

I think though that we need to look at the trade goods for this because they are the easiest things for us to draw parallels to.

The most difficult part of this is that we do not yet take part in interplanetary commerce let alone interstellar. On Earth, each country can to a point provide itself with the basic necessities of civilization, it is finished products and the rarer minerals that they may lack. Even in an interplanetary civilization (say our solar system), the rarity of say uranium, beef, or water decreases as a number, but the communities with direct access to them decreases.

How much is trit worth to the average planet bound person? How much is beef worth to the crew of deep space mining operation? The trit may be worth nothing to the planet bound person and the beef may be worth a months wages to the deep space miner.

We, planet bound people living in the year 2008, have a much better idea what the value is of 1 L of milk, a test dummy, or robotics are worth than a interplanetary capable ship. The planetary vehicle may be an good thing to draw parallels to along with the Gallente planetary vehicle. A basic planetary vehicle (3,750 ISK) might be compared to a 4 door sedan, while the luxury vehicle (10,000 ISK) might be compared to a luxury or sports car. So an average price for those types of vehicles might give us a better idea.

Horatius Caul
Amarr
Kitzless
Posted - 2008.01.13 20:44:00 - [7]
 

I, too, subscribe to the idea that ISK is so-called "big money" - further emphasizing the capsuleer's position in society as both a king and an outcast. Since the ISK is (in my oppinion) almost exclusively used by capsuleers and other pilots, people who are not concerned with loose change, one Kredit is likely worth quite a lot. I see it as not only a way to produce a unified currency for interstellar trade, but also to save writing a lot of zeroes on shipping receipts.

People who work on space stations might be in regular contact with ISK, though, and are probably occasionally surprised to be tipped an insane amount of money by some capsuleer who just doesn't care. Aboard space ships, the crew would probably receive their vages in ISK, but either cash it in some more manageable currency or develop an elaborate system of fractioning ISK.

I have a distinct memory of a very similar thread going on a few months ago. There were many elaborate comparisons (I believe planetary vehicles and shipments of Quafe were the main points of discussion).

XeNedra Brown
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.14 07:48:00 - [8]
 

Something else that needs to be considered is the insurance system which totally throws off most estimates as the worth of ISK. To suggest that a megacorp is so wealthy and powerful that they are willing to "throw away" huge queantities of money on players whos ship was destroyed due to some form of personal incompetance. Not only that but they didn't bother to make a deposit on the ship thus insuring if from harm. In my opinion, a better explaination would be that in a future such as this the production of technology has been so perfected that it has become more efficient than the production of biological products. To use dairy products as an example doesn't really help the situation. This was already touched on but I'll add a little. In the future with energy being essentially free (You don't have to buy gas). Milk on the other hand is just as efficient as it ever was because any one cow can only produce a certain amount of milk, genetic engineering aside. Traveling into space would be the most viable means of making a living based on a few simple facts:
1. It requires no initial investment as the intergalactic insurance company gives away free nube ships.
2. It isn't actually life threatening as you have the use of clones.
3. You can potentially incredible amounts of money without doing near as much work.

The only way that ISK could be a unit of worth that represents huge amounts of money is if...
1. There was a cast of people who were allowed to enter space trade, thus entitling them to the free nube ship.
2. A massive religous movement prevented the use of clones to insure personal welbeing because the issues of wheather or not a soul could be transported between bodies when the original was blown up/lost/wtfpowned.
3. The whole traveling faster than the speed of light aging thing is in effect, and no one wants to lose all there loved ones while they are away.

I think a simple explanation would be that ISK is probably worth a little more than a dollar, but is still what would be considered a common currency (like the Euro in Europe). Technology has just become so cheap that it often costs less than average amenities, like food, milk. I would pretty much compare a nube ship to the Moped of space travel.

XeNedra Brown
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.14 07:50:00 - [9]
 

Excuse my grammer as I forgot to proof read. ugh

XeNedra Brown
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.14 07:51:00 - [10]
 

I'm on a role grammar*Shocked

Kremlin KOA
Posted - 2008.01.14 09:59:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Dex Nederland
My view is that ISK is "big money". It is a monetary unit setup by an international organization to enable trade between the major powers.

Lets take the Dairy Product as an example.

At 400 kg / 0.5 m3 this is equivalent to 500 L of Dairy Product. Thus a liter of milk is roughly 3.33 ISK / liter. So that is a huge number for dairy products. Then again the milk is all probably dehydrated in order to allow transport and to allow it to keep well. So the amount you get out of the 500 L of powder could be fair more. That creates an almost 1 for 1 verse some modern currencys.




a few corrections.
1: 400kg will be slightly less than 400L of milk, 388.35L to be precise.
Source for the density of liquid milk
2: if you use dehydrated milk as your example, and assule it was compacted, then 400kg would be about 500L when expanded of the powdered... and as 1L of powdered makes 3L of liquid, it becomes 1.11ISK per Litre
Source for powdered milk equivalencies
Now in the US milk is being feared as soon to rise to $5 per gallon this is $1.25 per litre. at $4 per gallon it would be $1.06 per litre

In short a single ISK is of a value comparable to a US dollar. enough so that it might be able to be linked on a money market.



Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.14 11:17:00 - [12]
 

Originally by: XeNedra Brown
The only way that ISK could be a unit of worth that represents huge amounts of money is if...
1. There was a cast of people who were allowed to enter space trade, thus entitling them to the free nube ship.


AKA capsuleers. Us.

Most other ships are corporate property, or military equipment, crewed and operated by hired and trained personnel. If you're going to all the expense of hiring a crew and running a corporate asset, then you're not going to settle for something like an Ibis when you can get a Badger instead.

Quote:
2. A massive religous movement prevented the use of clones to insure personal welbeing because the issues of wheather or not a soul could be transported between bodies when the original was blown up/lost/wtfpowned.


The Amarrians.

Also, there's the consideration that cloning is expensive (I currently spend about 3 million on clones) and suffers a number of limitations, not the least of which is the onset of capsule dementia.

Quote:
3. The whole traveling faster than the speed of light aging thing is in effect, and no one wants to lose all there loved ones while they are away.
.

Not impossible, but doubtful. The chronicles don't make any mention of the time dilation side-effects of superluminal travel, suggesting that they may have been countered. Certainly, if I was trying to invent a faster-than-light drive, one of the first problems I would address would be how to sidestep the problems that come with traveling at relativistic speeds.

Quote:
I think a simple explanation would be that ISK is probably worth a little more than a dollar, but is still what would be considered a common currency (like the Euro in Europe). Technology has just become so cheap that it often costs less than average amenities, like food, milk. I would pretty much compare a nube ship to the Moped of space travel.


To some degree, that's almost certainly true, but I doubt that the ease with which the technology is assembled would mitigate the expense and difficulty of acquiring the materials. To people who aren't capsuleers, asteroid mining mining might well be a difficult and dangerous affair. Maybe it is a difficult and dangerous affair anyway, and capsuleers just don't notice, in the same way as we don't notice the crew of the pirate battleship with the 1 million ISK bounty we just happily annihilated.

XeNedra Brown
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.15 03:23:00 - [13]
 

Certaintly clones aren't free, once you have learned more skills than can be covered by the original clone. What I'm really referring to is the initial investment required to become a space travelor. No matter how much you screw up, you'll still be able to get that nube ship, and you'll still be respawned with a basic clone.
Anyway, this seems to be beside the original point of the discussion which was the worth of the ISK. It seems that the majority of us agree that it doesn't represent any more than the average currency of the eve universe.

Endless Dream
Gallente
Griffin Industries Ltd
Posted - 2008.01.15 09:56:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: XeNedra Brown
3. The whole traveling faster than the speed of light aging thing is in effect, and no one wants to lose all there loved ones while they are away.



That's an obvious non-issue. There are players who spend the vast majority of their game time parked in stations, and I don't see their character aging any faster than yours (or skilling up faster for that matter) :P

Kai Zion
Posted - 2008.01.15 11:41:00 - [15]
 

I think it's been said somewhere that for the price of a shuttle a single planetside family could feed themselves for a year. Can't find the source, however.

Anwylyd Al'Vos
The Knights Templar
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2008.01.15 19:52:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Kai Zion
I think it's been said somewhere that for the price of a shuttle a single planetside family could feed themselves for a year. Can't find the source, however.


Aye, I read that too... and also cannot remember where... so yes, ISK is considered to be big money.

Kremlin KOA
Posted - 2008.01.15 20:56:00 - [17]
 

so only the mega rich can afford milk?

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.01.15 22:25:00 - [18]
 

Edited by: Dex Nederland on 16/01/2008 22:59:08
Being able to feed yourselves for ~8000 ISK in a year is does not necessarily make it big money. I would guess that a family of four (in the US) would be able to feed themselves on 8000 USD in a year (12000 USD should make them decently comfortable food wise). So you could argue that buying a 4-door sedan (~25,000 USD) would feed 3 families. So based on that example 1 ISK = 1 USD. Expand upon this and how much does it cost to feed a family in a culture with a lower caloric intake or establish for them a rich diet with a cultural high caloric intake?

Can the average dirt dweller afford milk? I suspect so since it is most likely cheaper to get it to them than it is to get the milk to the station dwellers, deep space ops post, and mining crews. Think if you lived on the International Space Station (500 km+ up) and consider the cost to get you 1 kg of any good: ~40,000 USD / kg at current prices. Part of this is how the market works and there just is not enough demand to put things into space atm, but that price will fall over the course of the coming decades. I suspect that in this distant future, dirt to vacuum is not the problem we have to deal with now and so the price is a marginal increase at best.

The more we discuss it the more it appears that the ISK is not big money because 1 ISK can buy a whole lot, but instead because an agency like the UN has established it for regular trade between the spacefarers. Most people probably never leave their home district, let alone planet or system, so the ISK is of little importance to them, except if they sell things to the spacefarers.

This is not a simple discussion and direct comparisons are difficult because technology is more advanced, raw materials are more abundant, etc.

As a point of reference, the Sol System (the Solar System) is estimated to support Quadrillions of people and that is conservative. If everyone is flying space ships or they are manufactured to the extent cars are today, they may just be what it cost for a family of 4 to eat more than comfortably for a year.

Draconyx
Posted - 2008.01.16 06:07:00 - [19]
 

I am afraid you can't calculate the way you are going about it.

Basically think of it this way.

How much did milk cost in say 1820
Now look how much it costs now 2008
THen progress to EVE which is year what ?

At any rate the point is the value of money decreases every year.
Or you can buy less with the pound or dollar every year.

So if you wanted to not go mad.
Pick say a dairy product or planetary vehicle or something you could correspond to today.

For example for fun
Planetary Vehicle costs 500 ISK lets say
And a Car around 20,000 Dollars.

So 20,000 / 500 = 40 or 40 Dollars = 1 ISK
So a Million ISK Destroyer would cost 40 Million Dollars.

Now the costs I guessed @ by the way but that is how to get a more realistic exchange rate.

Marine HK4861
Caldari
State Protectorate
Posted - 2008.01.16 18:41:00 - [20]
 

Edited by: Marine HK4861 on 16/01/2008 18:45:08
Originally by: Dex Nederland
Being able to feed yourselves for ~8000 ISK in a year is does not necessarily make it big money. I would guess that a family of four (in the US) can make due/survive on 8000 USD in a year (12000 USD should make them decently comfortable food wise).


I'm not familiar with the US cost of living, but does that 8000 USD including all forms of taxation, mortgage, medical fees, school fees, etc, with no form of subsidy/benefits from the government?
I think what they mean is that 8000 ISK would probably let a planetside family live comfortably for at a year.

Quote:
I suspect that in this distant future, dirt to vacuum is not the problem we have to deal with now and so the price is a marginal increase at best.


According to the Chronicle story Stairway to Heaven there is no standard way of getting things into orbit and there is limited interaction between planetside economies and space.
That points to most planetside goods being counted as luxury items spaceside, so they would be subject to the huge price increases you've mentioned.

Quote:

The more we discuss it the more it appears that the ISK is not big money because 1 ISK can buy a whole lot, but instead because an agency like the UN has established it for regular trade between the spacefarers. Most people probably never leave their home district, let alone planet or system, so the ISK is of little importance to them, except if they sell things to the spacefarers.



I disagree with that. Due to the limited amount of interaction between space and planets, we have our currency and they have theirs. Equally, we have different standards for quality of life and living costs.
For example, obtaining the minerals for a battleship is trivial for us due to the relative abundance of minerals in space, while it would be extremely expensive to do so on a planet (not to mention tritanium is unstable at atmospheric temperatures).

Since the nature of the EVE universe values military values/capability over civilian ones, the items we make are more valuable. If the EVE universe was a peaceful utopia, then we would probably be poor compared to planetside economies, as there wouldn't be any demand for our services or military might.

Quote:

If everyone is flying space ships or they are manufactured to the extent cars are today, they may just be what it cost for a family of 4 to eat more than comfortably for a year.

That's assuming the rich/poor divide doesn't get larger and any population increase is evenly divided amongst all nations. In all likelihood, any population increase will be primarily in less well-off countries, leaving spaceships well beyond the reach of except the very rich.


In the EVE universe, we are unique as pod pilots. Very few people have the money, connections and mental/physical/genetic capabilities to be one of us. Our services are going to be in high demand simply because we're better at doing things in space than anybody else - as an example, a NPC ship is likely to be under the command of a standard bridge crew. How many of these do you face simultaneously in a single mission and how many do you destroy?

Summer Breeze gives an idea of how NPCs view us in combat. The pilot destroys at least 2 ships and pummels the crap out of at least another 4, all in a frigate. Even if they do manage to kill the pilot, he'll just wake up in his medical clone, jump into another ship and try again.

Edit: Typo

Dex Nederland
Caldari
Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Posted - 2008.01.16 22:58:00 - [21]
 

Edited by: Dex Nederland on 16/01/2008 23:14:08
Edited by: Dex Nederland on 16/01/2008 23:03:01
My reference was to the feed a family for a year. I have edited the previous post to reflect that.

I should probably give Stairway to Heaven a through read. Beyond whether or not ISK is big money is the question of interaction between the dirt dwellers, stationbound, and shipwander societies. There most likely exist culture differences between the various empires on just how much interaction their is between the planetary economies and the interstellar one.

Edit #2:

Having just read Stairway to Heaven, it was disappointing to not see Space Elevators/tethers being the primary means of transport of bulk goods from a planet to orbit, granted it takes weeks. This requires some high tech equipment, but it is something that is near-future tech (next 100 years) in the present.

Also it would appear to support that ISK is big money.
Originally by: http://www.eve-online.com/background/potw/28-02-05.asp
[S]ome semi-independent colonies within the Gallentean Federation have decided to tie their currency directly to the Concord-regulated ISK.

Colonies and planets seem to have their own currencies.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.16 23:28:00 - [22]
 

This is why I chose to compare the value of an AC-130U with a Rifter, as opposed to comparing the milk prices - the fact is that, strange though it sounds, the former is the closer parallel.

Milk, ground vehicles and suchlike in EVE are not the same as they are for us. As has been noted, they are planet-based resources - a herd of cattle is not an easy, cheap or efficient thing to try and raise in space, implying that dairy farming must still be performed planetside in order to be practical - making beef, milk and other agricultural products expensive luxury items aboard space stations. Here on contemporary Earth, on the other hand, such products are easily and cheaply accessible to anybody living in a developed nation. Similarly, ground vehicles are presumably of limited value aboard space stations, where they are most likely not manufactured - meaning that they become expensive luxury items that must be shipped in from elsewhere.

On the other hand, the AC-130U is a flying vessel of similar size and firepower to the Rifter, minus the latter's shielding, airtight hull, self-repair systems and warp drive (all of which probably compensate for the fact that the Spooky's technology would be incredibly cheap and easy to manufacture in EVE space). Being a military resource, it's more relevant to the EVE universe. It is, as far as I can tell, one of the closest parallels.

I'll agree that it's not a good idea to base my opinion on the value of the ISK on the back of just the one calculation, but at the end of the day it's by far and away the least ambiguous one I could find - all the others vary too wildly in their results.

To whoever it was suggested that ships are manufactured to the same degree as cars are today - I strongly doubt that. Otherwise, there'd be a lot more of them about. It seems more likely that they are pretty much exclusively corporate assets, and only become private property when the owner is fabulously wealthy - like a privateer.

Kai Zion
Posted - 2008.01.17 07:27:00 - [23]
 

Sorry, it could have been "feed" or "support" or anything. It was something like "For the price of a shuttle a planetside family could support/feed/something else themselves for a year."

This chronicle talks about the duality of economies arising from logistical hurdles involved in importing/exporting between planetside locations and space. Not sure if this was raised earlier as I've not read this thread in detail, but perhaps it helps you guys.

If I find out the source of that "family" piece, I'll let ya know, but someone else has already said they've read it to, so I guess I wasn't imagining it at least! Razz

Laquol
Caldari
J.S Fleet
Posted - 2008.01.18 08:22:00 - [24]
 

This is a poor way to find out the value of 1 ISK.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.18 11:42:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Laquol
This is a poor way to find out the value of 1 ISK.


The urge to be sarcastic here is overwhelming, but I'll refrain, and just be blunt instead....

That response was worthless. If you're going to make a statement like that, then at least back it up with why you think it is worthless, how you arrived at your conclusion, and what approach you would take instead.

At the moment, your post has contributed absolutely nothing to this thread except to irritate me, and probably some of the other people who posted here as well. I hope you're happy.

Now please, go away and formulate a reason for your statement, and then maybe we'll actually treat it with some respect. Until that point, you're just trolling, and will be ignored.

Shintoko Akahoshi
Risen Angels
Posted - 2008.01.19 07:46:00 - [26]
 

The problem with comparing a Rifter with a modern aircraft in order to figure out the worth of an isk is that you're assuming manufacturing technology is similar for the two.

The AC-130U, worth $190 million, is valued so highly mainly because of the amount of labor it takes to build one. The materials that go into one are certainly worth far less. When you look at the construction of one, it is intensely laborious, with many people working many hours.

This isn't necessarily the case for the Rifter. It really depends on how the thing is built. I suppose factories in Eve could be similar to modern factories, with scores of people painstakingly building the ship. On the other hand, they could be completely automated. Personally, I believe the latter to be the case. Look at armor repairers: they use nanotechnology to replace starship armor. Likewise, we have nano "goo" available for quick in-space repairs of damaged components. It stands to reason, then, that the in-station repair services are also nanotechnologically based, as are the factories.

The in-game "convenience" mechanic of building a Rifter quickly, with just the click of a button, in that case, might be actually how the thing is made. You load up your blueprint into the general purpose factory, press "go", and sophisticated nanoassemblers build the thing up from base minerals in a matter of minutes or hours.

If this is the case, then you should actually compare the price of the minerals that go into the Rifter with the minerals that go into the AC-130. The thing is about 33 metric tons, empty. If you assume that most of it is steel (I don't know if this is the case, I'm just pulling stuff out of my butt), then you're looking at 33 metric tons of steel. Steel is pretty cheap, between $550 and $800 per metric ton. For grins, though, I'll assume $1000 per metric ton. This puts your AC-130 at $33,000, in raw material cost. Last I checked, a Rifter sold for somewhere around 330,000 isk, which would put things more around 10 isk per dollar.

Personally, considering the price of bulk food trade goods, I think it's more like 1 isk per dollar, the cost of labor being the main issue, there.

It's kind of like modern food prices: modern farming techniques allow for much more food to be grown per dollar spent than a hundred years ago, so the food ends up being cheaper in the market. At the same time, highly labor-intensive things, like heirloom furniture, have similar adjusted costs to those made a hundred years ago. It's not so much that the dollar has changed in those hundred years, it's that the ratio in value between food and furniture has changed. Likewise, between modern Earth and Eve, the ratio in value between Roe and Rifters has changed.

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.19 13:15:00 - [27]
 

I suspect that EVE shipbuilding is actually a combination of techniques, with the superstructure, armour plating and power cabling all being assembled with nanotech factories in roughly the same time as it takes to completely repair the ship's hull and structure with capital-grade repair systems - so, about thirty seconds, for a Rifter.

Then comes the fiddly stuff - mounting the shield emitters, fitting the drive core and computer systems, setting up life support and installing all the other fiddly little components that are a bit too subtle for the nano-assemblers to handle. That would be done by hand, or Rapid Assembly Modules, maybe...

I'm not going to try to claim that the Rifter and AC-130U are exact matches- merely that they represent the closest conceptual parallels.

Kremlin KOA
Posted - 2008.01.20 17:36:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Draconyx
I am afraid you can't calculate the way you are going about it.

Basically think of it this way.

How much did milk cost in say 1820
Now look how much it costs now 2008
THen progress to EVE which is year what ?


as a function of percentage of weekly wage?

Quote:

At any rate the point is the value of money decreases every year.
Or you can buy less with the pound or dollar every year.

So if you wanted to not go mad.
Pick say a dairy product or planetary vehicle or something you could correspond to today.

For example for fun
Planetary Vehicle costs 500 ISK lets say
And a Car around 20,000 Dollars.

So 20,000 / 500 = 40 or 40 Dollars = 1 ISK
So a Million ISK Destroyer would cost 40 Million Dollars.

Now the costs I guessed @ by the way but that is how to get a more realistic exchange rate.


I would agree with that as a basic concept but you will, find comestables to be a better measure than technological goods. Technological items become cheaper (as a function of percentage of income) over time.

That is why I used milk and got 1ISK is from 1-5USD

you should also check roses and suchlike
the trick is to remember that inflation is not relevant to the discussion if you use price as a function of income

Stitcher
Caldari
Posted - 2008.01.20 20:02:00 - [29]
 

My problem there is that the value of what constitutes a "comestible" in a space-based infrastructure is probably very different to that of our terrestrial infrastructure. Milk, meat, plant products - all of these are difficult and expensive to produce aboard a sealed environment like a space station, meaning that their value as a trade commodity doesn't match up.

We're pretty much forced to look at the high-tech items because nothing else matches up closely enough.

Kathryn Dougans
Amarr
Posted - 2008.01.21 14:30:00 - [30]
 

What about some of the industrial goods, like carbon, silicon, glass? Are they more easily compared with things?

Or what about Quafe? 500kg of Quafe is 50 isk. Now, soft drinks are most economically transported as dry powder and rehydrated at bottling plants, I think that might be the case for Quafe, because otherwise it's 5 times as dense as water.
So 500kg for the Quafe, reconstitutes into much more. Compared to e.g. Sprite lemonade, which has 10g of sugar per 100ml, then that's 10 litres per kilo of ingredients, so the 500kg of Quafe could be 5000 litres of soft drink.
Making it cost 0.01 isk per litre.
Quafe could be a diet drink though, not made with sugar, so compared with e.g. Sprite Zero lemonade, which has 0g of sugar, so the ingredient powder would stretch even further. If there's only 1g of dry ingredient per litre, then that makes Quafe cost 0.001 isk per litre of drink.

Of course, that's wholesale prices, so maybe double it for the customer's price. Quafe costing 0.002 to 0.02 per litre

Cheapest to buy soft drinks at Tesco at 2 litre bottles for 1.30 for a bottle of Sprite, so 1.30 equals between 0.004 and 0.04 isk. So 1 isk looks like it could be between 32.50 and 325, so between $60-$600?

Quafe is a hugely popular soft drink, so would be affordable by the majority of people, which makes it possibly more easily comparable than other products.

I'd think the Isk is more likely to be a macro-scale currency.


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