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Posted - 2008.02.20 16:46:00 - [31]

Celestial Events

Comets and Solar Flares are two celestial events that would be of interest for a miner. Both require special equipment, are rather dangerous to mine but are very rich in yield. Celestial Events could be a sub class on a Multispectral scan to separate them from hidden belts and may use a new kind of Probe, the Spectrographic Probe to find. Spectrographic Probes analyze the incoming light and then pinpoint the locations of current solar flares and the comets.

Comet Mining

The main problem with comets is that they are moving. Very fast. They have speeds ranging from 350 m/s when they're the farthest from the sun (and practically invisible) to 415,000 m/s when they are catapulting around the sun it the lowest distance, averaging at 45,000 m/s . No ship is flying fast enough to keep up with a comet, let alone a mining barge. In order to stay close enough to a comet for mining endeavors new technology is needed: The Tug Link and the Anchor Probe.

Once the location of a comet is pinpointed with Spectrographic Probes the prospector can attempt to send Anchor Probes out to the comet. The chance of successfully fixing the Anchor Probe to the comet depends on the quality of the probe, the skills of the operator and the distance to the comet. Once the anchor is fixed a ship fitted with a Tug Link can warp to the comet's location. Once in close proximity the Tug Link connects with the Anchor Probe, pulling the ship out of warp and connect it with the comet via a strong tractor beam. The ship is then dragged behind the comet close enough to start mining.

In game terms this means: First normal probing of the comet like any other location. The greater the accuracy the better as the distance from the location is calculated into the chance of fixing the Anchor Probe. Then you warp to the pinpointed location and launch a Anchor Probe. It will take a few minutes for the probe to reach the comet and fix itself onto it. When successful one then has a bookmark for the comet where one can warp to. Attempting to warp to the comet without a active Tug Link will abort the warp and give a message like 'You cannot warp to this location without a active Tug Link.'. The warp will bring you into close proximity of the comet, like 5km varied by the normal warp deviation. The comet location is a deadspace area, so the warp-in point will be fixed.

The comet has three parts that can be mined: The ice shell, the rock core and the dust tail.

Comet Ice is very rich in all kinds of isotopes and heavy water due to the strong exposure to the solar winds but is lacking in liquid ozone and strontium clathrates as those materials are too unstable to endure the radiation. It can be mined with a standard Ice Harvesters

Comet Cores have to be mined with a Deep Core mining laser. There are four possible kinds of cores, frozen core, crystalline core, rocky core and metallic core.
Frozen cores have higher amounts of strontium clathrates along other ice products.
Crystalline cores yield a variety of minerals, Rocky Cores yield non-metallic raw moon materials. Metallic cores can be refined into metallic raw moon materials.
The kinds of cores could be broken down further into varieties that yield some material more and some less and some not at all to bring in more diversity an element of luck and to make it more easy to balance the availability of the extracted materials, minerals and ice products.

Comet Tails are mined with Gas Cloud Harvesters. While the yield on the comet dust is rather low it can, in opposite to the other parts of the comet, be mined as long as the comet is available. Among atmospheric gases, traces of contents of both the ice shell and the solid core can be extracted from comet dust. The more rare minerals and materials should not be available in comet dust though as this would make farming a comet for them too easy and would disturb the market for those items.

Posted - 2008.02.20 16:47:00 - [32]

The environment behind a comet is a hazardous one. Energized particles and larger junks falling off of the comet are a constant threat to anyone tugging along. This should be reflected by regular damage to any ship or other objects, like jetcans, in the comet area, mostly consisting of kinetic, some thermal and a little explosive damage. In addition every time a mining cycle is finished more parts of the comet drop off, causing similar damage as the environmental hazards. The more a comet is mined and the longer it has been around the more unstable it will become. Over time the environmental damage will increase until after a certain time the comet breaks apart and ceases to exist as a celestial event. At that time the Anchor Probe will fail and the ship/s in the area will drop into normal space. Effectively the deadspace location gets deleted like a mission site when the mission is cashed in.

There are some issues with having a comet move through the system while it is around. One would be that whenever the comet is moved to another location all bookmarks for it become obsolete. Either a automatic updating has to be coded in or the comet's location has to be probed out again and a new Anchor Probe has to be attached. If the comet is moved only once a day, the latter option would be viable but if the comet moves every hour or even in real time only the first choice would be the only viable one. Also with moving out of downtime the players currently inside the comet area have to be effectively moved which might require new code to be created.

Personally I would go for moving the comet only during downtime and require it to be probed down again at the new location. If it was possible to update the bookmarks during downtime one could give a Anchor Probe a certain chance to survive and allow a luck comet miner to return to the comet without delay. The comet would fly a predetermined parable course towards the sun and disappear after a certain time, like a week or when it is mined out.

The proximity of a comet is deadspace due to the disturbances in warp that a comet causes. The high energy particles of the tail hide ships inside from probing almost completely. This is to prevent people from warping to the area without the proper equipment. If you want to shoot a comet miner you will have to attach your own Anchor Probe to the comet and fix your combat ship to it.

There is no maneuvering in the comet area. To be able to stay close to the comet the ship is basically anchored in relation to the comet to stay at a zero relative velocity. The warp deviation will prevent people sitting on top of each other but they will be in close proximity. So if a pirate probes out a comet, attaches a Anchor Probe and warps to the comet, he will be right on top of the unlucky miner.

I think comet mining in this or a similar way would offer a new exciting sub-profession if the effort/rewards, requirements/rewards and risk/rewards relations are properly balanced.

Posted - 2008.02.20 16:48:00 - [33]

Solar Mining

Solar flares are happening almost constantly on any star at any given time. Finidng them is rather easy as there is only a very small area where they can be found. So probing for current solar flares is a simple endeavor. One merely needs to drop the most accurate Spectrographic Probe at the star and scan for them. Depending on the activity of the star there could be several suitable solar flares around at any given time, though the area will only be useful for a few hours.

The interesting part of the solar flare isn't the flare itself but the coronal mass ejection associated with it. This stardust is very rich in isotopes, the kinds to be found depending on the age and type of star. It can be collected from the solar flare location from a Coronal Mass glowing cloud item with Gas Cloud Harvesters. Once the Coronal Mass is depleted or the location runs out it gets simply removed.

The only reason solar mining isn't rivaling ice mining for isotope production is the extreme danger involved with solar mining. So close to the sun, a ship is pummeled by concentrated radiation, causing continuous EM and Thermal damage. The amount of damage done to all objects at the solar flare location depends on the star and wide randomness. One has to be alert all the time, ready to warp of, should the tank fail. Getting melted while not looking could prove fatal for one's pod. Apart from this potential lethality solar flare locations have no other special attributes.

Solar Flares come in several magnitudes. The higher the magnitude, the more stardust is around but the damage will be higher. Distribution of magnitudes should depend on how active and what type the star is. The type of star also determines what kind of Coronal Mass is found and thus what kind of stardust can be mined and what isotopes can be refined from it. Of course security level should be a deciding factor.

The amounts of isotopes that can be gained from solar mining needs to be balanced with the risks involved and should be comparatively with what one could gain from ice mining. The lack of heavy water, liquid ozone and strontium clathrates in stardust should be taken into account when balancing is done.

Thera Romana
Posted - 2008.02.20 17:28:00 - [34]

For solar mining why can't we just use solar arrays like found in deadspace complexes.

Solar arrays would power a pos with no need for fuel. Fuel would be used for when solar arrays are not available(destroyed or damaged).

Solar arrays would be outside of pos shields. So destroyable.

small pos would take 1 to power but could mount up to 3(backups)

Medium would take 3 to power but could mount up to 6

Large pos would take 9 but mount up to 18

Guns would cause power spikes so using the small as an example, if you have 1 solar array mounted it powers the labs, mining array or what ever you have tied to the tower. If the pos shoots and only one array is mounted fuel gets comsumed for powering up the turret that fired. The more turrets fire the more fuel gets burned powering them. If you have 3 arrays tied to the pos, the 2 extra arrays absorb that increased power need. As the solar arrays get destroyed, the need for fuel will become greater.

No solar arrays puts consumption of fuel back to the rate it is currently at.

Posted - 2008.02.20 19:58:00 - [35]

Comet mining sounds interesting, but I'd prefer to see them simply moving slowly instead of requiring a whole separate set of skills to pinpoint and 'anchor'. The anchoring process simply sounds overly specific. A comet moving at 100m/s around an asteroid belt would be minable, but still require some movement.

Also, bump to my AoE strip miner idea and single target for mining laser idea in regards to comets breaking apart. Strip miners would gather all the ore from a, say, 500m area around the target, while mining lasers gather only from the target. As a comet breaks up, strip miners start bringing in more and more junk ore (albeit a lot more) while mining lasers can bring in only what they want to.

This also adds the possibility of a module that can break up asteroids and comets, like, a rock buster.

Solar harvesters would be a neat POS structure, adding another category to be harvested. Maybe they produce packaged energy (I'm thinking like Energon cubes from Transformers here!) that can be used as fuel for a POS, or something to that effect. or produces a random mess of isotopes.

Posted - 2008.02.23 12:50:00 - [36]

Well, as I'm out of more ideas at the moment I'll just address some of the feedback from other people here. Very Happy

Lisa Waen
While your ideas about adding a mini game to reward active miners and deter macros from working at full efficiency, I must confess, that I am not a fan for mini games at all.

For one it will add more interfaces to a already cluttered UI.
They also kind of derail the current gameplay and force the player to focus on something else. Even if it's just a 5 second distraction it's enough to break The Flow, the almost meditative state of mind that every game designer tries to induce to the players.
And last but not least mini games can be exasperating. If you are mining and you'll have to play this mini game 100-1000 times a day you will get fed up of it sooner than later.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea, just not for this game. Wink

DasNara Aethelwulf
Hazardous environment like moving asteroids are something that I'd be looking forward to. Problem is that calculating and updating the movement of many asteroids could add a unnecessary strain to the database and bandwidth, so I'd drop it. Also a hulk is maneuvering little better than the roids it mines. Dodging asteroids isn't something a hulk is really capable of. Other than that, some mining areas might be a recent collision of bigger asteroids that broke apart and all the debris in the field is causing regular coded damage, depending on the speed, agility and size of the affected ship.

I'd love to see the ore distribution to be handled dynamically, depending on how much mining there is in an area. The more is mined the scarcer the ores get and the less is mined the more rare ores appear, up to a certain level. Also I'd love to have random rare ores sparsely dropped into common belts. So that even in highsec a miner may find a small rock of Hemorphite or even Arkanor. But only in very small amounts, those rare finds should only be there to spice mining up a little.

PrismX is dealing with the can infestations and my ideas about comet mining can be found above.

Thera Romana
Adding Solar Harvesters to lessen the fuel use for a POS has one simple problem: It's lessening the impact of POS fuel as a ISK and time sink. I think that is the sole reason why this simple and straight forward idea won't be implemented.

However using such arrays to gather stardust, which can then be later refined into isotopes or other kinds of new materials would add something to the game instead of replacing something. Yield could depend on the distance from the star and the type of star itself. It might give moons that aren't worth mining some more use.

The thing about comets is that they are moving at insane speeds at times. No comet ever moves 100 m/s, it'd be an asteroid then and no comet. I agree that the anchoring process is a bit complicated but it wouldn't need any additional skills really, just equipment. I designed it that way because the thought of catching a ride with a comet sounded like fun. I tried to make comet mining feel differently, not like "Look it's just another asteroid but this time it's moving."

My hope is that CCP will give mining more width and depth, more live and variety of how you can experience mining. At the moment mining is more or less "Warp to belt, target asteroids, mine, haul, repeat." I'd really love to see more choices of activities added to that.

Ok, I'm running out of characters, so I'll keep it at that for now. Feedback and more ideas are welcome. Very Happy

CCP Chronotis

Posted - 2008.02.23 13:46:00 - [37]

Nice thread, it is along similar lines to the comments I made in my last blog and discussion. I would generally like to see all of what you have stated in eve in some form including complex asteroids which has always been a dream of mine along with finally seeing comets Very Happy

Posted - 2008.02.23 14:21:00 - [38]

Thank you. Very Happy
I was delighted when I read the blog and it motivated to add some more ideas to this thread. I am really looking forward seeing some of the things here implemented into Eve.

Venkul Mul
Posted - 2008.02.23 14:28:00 - [39]

To remember it Mining mark II a very good idea by Nyphur. Read it

Posted - 2008.02.25 00:54:00 - [40]

I like the idea except for the part where an asteroid give off more than one type of ore, it would make the T2 Strip Miners, adn The T1/T2 Mining Crystal useless

Posted - 2008.02.25 14:45:00 - [41]

Edited by: Macmuelli on 25/02/2008 14:45:05
It would be nice to see something which is posted here within the next generation of mining.

To make it more difficulter u should add perhaps;

Generally effect of mining lasers for roids:

Every laser should have , if its work, an effect on the roid, include the roids around, as an side effect.
This side effect should shoud increase a damage he gives out, like "orbiting splitters and rocks from the roid", which hits the ship(shield-> amor-> hull)
Upon the activity within this "temporary" roid belt, the damage output increase or lowers step by step.
It should go to an point, where mining within this belts isnt possible to tank solo anymore, that a logistic background is needed.
This logistic background should reach one point, where it is no more possible to remote repair, like energy emission fields from the belt disrupt the systems of all ships.
The " Belt" needs then a break to regenerate, before it is possible again to mine in it.
( this keeps macros away from float belts)

"Improved KI of the Npc rats within the belts"

To keep "permanent Tanks away", they should switch the target after a bit of time, if they see that they cannot kill the ships they had attacked.
If the next Target of them is also able to Tank there damage, they should call support.
This kind of support are "Squads" which have no Bounties and are like Trainnees.
The ships, they fly, should have an higher damage output which makes it needed to kill them.
" no wrecks ( loot/ salvage) left on this ships.
It should increase step by step more and more to an level where it is no more possble to tank there force, and killing is needed.

I personal realy like the idea combining serveral Ore types to one roid , include the system u had suggest to scan them out.

"A Long term idea for upcoming tech levels combined to mining"

I had suggest it before, under the dev blog post.

Roid <-> Minerals<->Elements/Molecular Parts

Roids should have serveral ore types then, include serveral minerals.

Minerals should be splitted up in elements/ molecul

Minerals generally have an simple Element/ molecular Formula.

Element/ molecul s should be able to mine in clouds/ comets/ anomalys with new kind of ships, similar to the exhumers of ore.
Same effects on there laser to increase damageoutput of the clouds, to make it impossible to farm then 23/7.

Clouds like this should be visible within systems. But the possibilty to mine them should be randomize. As more peoples mine them, as higher is the damage output of mining.

First step should be: The throw out of the simple mineral formula`s.
Copying / inventing on them, should open the way to improve the formulars, whichs keeps out Improved minerals like "Improved Zydrine".

Improved Minerals like this should lower the buildings requierments of ships, and could be the introduce of modified equip and ships.

just an idea.



Tranquility Industries
Posted - 2008.02.25 17:39:00 - [42]

There should also be much more variation in what can be found in a solar system.
Currently a system with like...30 belts will all carry the same ore, which is just tedious at best.

Where is the sense that all asteroid belts scattered around a star must have the same ore and in the same quantities?

Why not make it dependant on their location and any stellar objects nearby?

Asteroid belts very close to planets would not allow for large Veldspar asteroids as they would be torn apart, so they would have more valueable, smaller asteroids.

The belts further away would not be under such an effect of gravity and thus could house larger asteroids such as Veldspar.

The belts themselves should also differ, I'm not particurly happy with finding Veldspar, Scordite, Pyro and Kernite wherever I go.
I would much rather see an asteroid belt containing like...95% Pyro and then some trace amounts of other ores, with the next belt containing 50/50 Scordite and Kernite.

New ore types would also be a great idea, its weird that Tritanium and Pyerite can be found in every single hunk of rock across an entire galaxy, I would much rather see an asteroid giving just Isogen and some Nocxium, or Mexallon and Pyerite, or other ores yielding only one mineral type.

Just some thoughts...

Falkrich Swifthand
eNinjas Incorporated
Posted - 2008.02.25 18:15:00 - [43]

Originally by: Riame
If combat doesn't require a minigame to hit a player, I don't think mining should either. I wouldn't mind if mining required more input from the player however, just not in the form of 'center mining laser properly'.

Maybe asteroids break into smaller pieces as you mine them, and strip miners pull ore in an AoE instead of a single target? This quasi-nerfs mining lasers, as they specifically target asteroids, while strips just pull everything in.

Actually, this could be pretty neato, as strip miners pull in everything in an area, a buttload of veld and scord in addition to the smaller omber and such, making their total yield higher, but giving them a lot of junk, while mining lasers can go in and pull out only the higher value ores. This not only gives mining lasers, and therefor non-barge flying miners a use, but adds a dimention of teamwork to mining. Strips will still have purpose in pulling in larger quantities, but now mining lasers can be used to really grab the needed ore (in say a time crunch).

This sounds great.

Frigate / Cruiser miners for specifically targeting the valuable stuff, barges for pulling in masses and masses of everything.
If you made strips AoE you'd have to reduce the yield to compensate, but that's not too bad. You make it low enough that a barge was slower at mining the rare specific ores in a belt than the frig/cruisers, but also pulled in 4x as much in veld on top. This way a barge would still be more profitable over all than the cruisers, and the supply of trit etc would be higher.

We might end up back in a situation where it mattered what you mined, instead of it balancing so that the value / m3 of every ore was about the same.

Thanat Ithos
Posted - 2008.02.26 14:28:00 - [44]

Additional to methods of HOW mining could work, there should also be a thinking of WHAT can be mined. I think it would help if there would be a broad bandwith of new materials which should be implemented. Why? Very simple

One main advantage of a broad diversification of mined materials is, that the miners splitting the work over more different products (f.e. the time you mine ice, you cannot mine ore). This way the following goals can be reached:

 Giving new attractive forms of mining, and possibilities of development for miners.
 Prevent of flooding the market with the same type of materials so prices can be stabilized or maybe rising.

F.e. new kind of materials could be metals, polymers, gasses, new kind of minerals, gems, crystals, and a lot more.

Posted - 2008.02.25 17:39:00 - [42] - Quote

There should also be much more variation in what can be found in a solar system.
Currently a system with like...30 belts will all carry the same ore, which is just tedious at best.

Where is the sense that all asteroid belts scattered around a star must have the same ore and in the same quantities?

I agree. In my opinion it would make more sense if any kind of material could be found anywhere. What could refer to the sec level to distinguish high sec mining form low sec, or 0.0 could be the quality of ore you mine like a few threads before, which amount of minerals you can get from the ore you mine.

Posted - 2008.02.26 18:54:00 - [45]

@Abrazzar: I understand comet mining is supposed to be something new a different, but frankly, I don't see mining from a quickly moving and dangerous item to be very feasible. Perhaps anchoring stops the comet, allowing it to be mined as normal?

I am in love with your idea of multiple ores being found in each asteroid though.

The AoE effect idea of a strip miner I posted was to imply that Strip Miners did just that, they strip mine. They pull in tons of material, with no specificity. In this case, fitting crystals could up the amount of a particular ore pulled, say 50% more omber from the mix you would have garnered. So your volume stays the same in this case, but the value of what you pull increases. OR, a separate set of crystals could simply up the volume. This adds more flexibility to mining.

This would add roles to mining, as those of us who have trained our mining skills to max but not our barges/exhumers can contribute in the form of being able to really specifically pull ore. Say I need 20k units of nocx. Rather then go out in a barge and pull rock, I can go out in my Brutix and specifically pull a more nocxium rich roid.

Regardless of whether or not this change is even considered, I highly support Abrazzar's ideas, and hope that just as combat has incredible depth, CCP considers miners for increased content. Adding the Rorqual did little to increase the complexity of mining.

Good Rock Materials
Posted - 2008.02.27 01:15:00 - [46]

Edited by: Clansworth on 27/02/2008 01:17:28
I like the idea of multi-ore asteroids, and have always thought it made good sense. I even proposed a very similar idea a while ago, though it was burried in another long mining overhaul thread. ( if you care to look back.

I did the yield calcs a bit different though. While an asteroid would have different compositions, they would not yield fractional ores. This results in the more valuable ores (having larger sizes) getting lost in the rounding (truncating, actually). Crystals help this a lot though, by boosting the yield for that ore higher, getting it past the rounding problem. Some sample calcs I did are below:

Object      Size      Veld          Scor         Plag         Pyro       
Asteroid 1 7806m 7432m(95.2%) 345m (4.4%) 24m (0.3%) 5m(0.06%)
Asteroid 2 1373m 534m(38.9%) 293m(21.3%) 546m(39.8%) 0m (0.0%)
Asteroid 3 2777m 25m (0.9%) 2752m(99.1%) 0m (0.0%) 0m (0.0%)

and limited to [ROID_ORE_CONTENT]

the Tech 1 crystal's specialty multiplier 1.65, and non specialty yield is 0.20.

So, From Asteroid 1, using a Miner I (40m/cycle)

Veldspar = ROUND_DOWN( [ 7432m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 40m/cycle] / [ 0.1m/u] ) = 380u/cycle
Scordite = ROUND_DOWN( [ 345m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 40m/cycle] / [0.15m/u] ) = 11u/cycle
Plagio = ROUND_DOWN( [ 24m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 40m/cycle] / [0.35m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Pyroxeres = ROUND_DOWN( [ 5m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 40m/cycle] / [ 0.3m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Total Yield = 39.6m/60 seconds = 39.6m/min

As you can see, even though there are traces of Plagioclaise and Pyroxeres in the rock, they are to miniscule for the crude Miner I to grab a hold of. Modulated lasers on the other hand will have a better change at getting the small stuff.

So from asteroid 1, with a MDCM II and Plagioclaise I crystal fitted:
(120 * 0.2 = 24m/cycle unspecialized, 120 * 1.65 = 198m/cycle specialized)

Veldspar = ROUND_DOWN( [ 7432m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [ 0.1m/u] ) = 228u/cycle
Scordite = ROUND_DOWN( [ 345m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [0.15m/u] ) = 7u/cycle
Plagio = ROUND_DOWN( [ 24m ] / [ 7806m ] * [198m/cycle] / [0.35m/u] ) = 1u/cycle
Pyroxeres = ROUND_DOWN( [ 5m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [ 0.3m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Total Yield = 24.2m/180 seconds = 8.1m/min

As you can see using the Plagioclaise crystal on a rock that has only trace amounts of plagioclaise will yield some plagio, but overall be pretty ineffective. Using that crystal on the Second roid though, which is more rich in its target ore, results in the following:

Veldspar = ROUND_DOWN( [ 534m ] / [ 1373m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [ 0.1m/u] ) = 93u/cycle
Scordite = ROUND_DOWN( [ 293m ] / [ 1373m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [0.15m/u] ) = 34u/cycle
Plagio = ROUND_DOWN( [ 546m ] / [ 1373m ] * [198m/cycle] / [0.35m/u] ) = 224u/cycle
Pyroxeres = ROUND_DOWN( [ 0m ] / [ 1373m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [ 0.3m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Total Yield = 92.8m/180 seconds = 30.93m/min

Using the tuned crystal on a rock that is mostly its target will be very effective:
Rock 1 with a Veldspar crystal:
Veldspar = ROUND_DOWN( [ 7432m ] / [ 7806m ] * [198m/cycle] / [ 0.1m/u] ) = 1885u/cycle
Scordite = ROUND_DOWN( [ 345m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [0.15m/u] ) = 7u/cycle
Plagio = ROUND_DOWN( [ 24m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [0.35m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Pyroxeres = ROUND_DOWN( [ 5m ] / [ 7806m ] * [ 24m/cycle] / [ 0.3m/u] ) = 0u/cycle
Total Yield = 189.55m/180 seconds = 63.18m/min

Posted - 2008.02.27 14:42:00 - [47]

Edited by: Nyphur on 27/02/2008 14:45:36
Originally by: Venkul Mul
To remember it Mining mark II a very good idea by Nyphur. Read it

Thanks. Oveur seemed to like it and there hasn't been any real major objection to anything I wrote (no objection that wasn't easily counterable anyway). But even if they do use any of my ideas, CCP's development cycle is something like a year long for big changes. Don't expect mining to be a decent profession again any time soon.

Originally by: Clansworth
I like the idea of multi-ore asteroids, and have always thought it made good sense. I even proposed a very similar idea a while ago, though it was burried in another long mining overhaul thread. ( if you care to look back.

I remember you posting that, it was a great idea and would make survey scanners actually useful. I'm sure CCP could refine the idea into something useful but their track record with refining and implementing complete solutions leaves something to be desired.

Ewina Acoma
Posted - 2008.02.27 17:01:00 - [48]

Edited by: Ewina Acoma on 27/02/2008 17:03:06
What about adding a new mining upgrade : Derivated Power Mining Upgrade
When active, every mining laser and strip miner have their cap use and yield increasing at each batch.
When desctivated, every mining laser and strip miner have their cap use and yield decreasing slowly at each batch to return to their standard level.

By activate and desactivate this module, the mining specialist can choose precisely how much capacitor and yield he need. If he lack of capacitor, This upgrade is put offline, require lot of capacitor to online again, and some time to keep it activate to have a correct yield upgrade.

Team play will be impacted too, as if you are nearly short capa, you can ask your team energy supply to avoid the long restarting upgrade.

Posted - 2008.02.27 17:49:00 - [49]

I'd like to see modulated mining lasers more able to specifically pull small yeilds out of these asteroids. So say you find a rock with 80% veld, 10% scord, 5% pyrox and 5% plag. With modulated mining lasers (not strips!) you ought to be able to go in and specifically pull out the pyrox and plag. Your yield won't be as good as it would have been with a strip miner, but you can get better ores.

They'd have to release a new set of crystals, ones that instead of increasing yield increased amount garnered. Could just be multipliers for what gets pulled, like -10% veld, but +5% scord and plag.

This lets mod mining lasers have a more useful role, and makes prospecting more important/entertaining.

"Whats this, 160 units of mercoxit in this rock! Damn, jackpot!" pop in crystals, pull it.

Dim Corby
Valheru Empire Science and Production Agency
Posted - 2008.03.20 14:37:00 - [50]

/signed for any idea that makes mining more variable and less mm-sensitive

Raven Timoshenko
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2008.03.20 14:43:00 - [51]

*AHEM* Check my earlier post, in my signature below YARRRR!!

Deacon Ix
Volition Cult
-Mostly Harmless-
Posted - 2008.03.20 14:57:00 - [52]

I like alot of these ideas - esp random belt locations and AoE Strip miners...

Possibly have an AoE Crystal - it mines more overall but you get more junk

as a slight bit of off topic ness - I would love to be able to over heat Mining lasers and then have them do damage to ships - litterally mining the minerals from them (kinda like Reclaiming in the TA/SC games)

Posted - 2008.04.14 10:06:00 - [53]

I am adding my Gas Cloud Harvesting Expansion to this thread as it fits into the mining topic and I like to free the link in my sig for something else. (and give this a bumpWink)

Gas Cloud Harvesting

As mining mission sometimes require the gas harvesting skill and gas harvesters more, people will feel inclined to acquire those and feel rather disenchanted at the lack of accessibility of the gas clouds in Eve.

My idea is to give gas harvesting more use for everyone everywhere without infringing on the booster production. In fact booster production and their special clouds should be completely unaffected as it is rightly so a very special and specific mini-career in eve.

Gas clouds, being the primordial dust of the stars can contain almost anything that does not need complex environments for its creation. So basically all ice products, basic moon materials and minerals could be found in gas clouds.

Gas cloud formations will be LADAR sites discoverable by normal means of exploration. Mined Gas cloud items can be refined with a new skill like other ores.

Mainly this would allow CCP to add a controlled influx of moon materials without having to temper with existing moons, allow non-regional fuel isotopes to be found and give exploration more significance.

How often gas cloud formations spawn, what and how much gas they contain can be controlled dynamically to prevent a over saturation of gas materials. The database can monitor how much of what kind of gas cloud got harvested and stop spawning certain clouds if a certain amount got harvested. The depleted kind of cloud will start spawning after a while, like one week. Clouds will get spawned in greater size if a region isn't harvested for it.

This system will prevent the over saturation of the market with certain materials and will encourage traveling into low populated areas like low-sec for the greater gas clouds that can be found there.

The Gas Refining skill and standard gas harvesters and the gas harvesting skill can be sold by the mining corporations of the empires. The agents that give out gas harvesters at the moment can then distribute faction gas harvesters that give a harvesting bonus to their local booster cloud in addition to their normal function.

Commander 598
Posted - 2008.04.29 16:39:00 - [54]

Things that should/could be made mineable:

Gases from Gas Giants (POS)
Planetary Rings (Ship)
Solar Gases (POS)

Nova Fox
Novafox Shipyards
Posted - 2008.04.30 10:50:00 - [55]

Edited by: Nova Fox on 30/04/2008 11:01:12
Mixed riod idea /signed
Good idea and it would encourage the use of skills and screw with macros a little bit.

Alloy mining /semi-signed, alloys from mining riods shouldnt be the same as drone guts but, there was a thread not to long ago about making manufacturing more intericate such as building basic metals/cstryals into parts for ships isntead of mins to ships.

Comet Mining /signed
However you do need to have breakable anchors, and hostile mining npc raids on the same resource if its in low or 0.0 sec. Me imagines a serpentis hyperion grappeling and slamming into the comets surface and all the rear guns open fire on the miners.

Breaking anchor should drop them out of warp between the first loctation of the comet that day and the location it would end randomly up at down time.

Solar Harvesting/ Semisigned

There are some issues with constant rate damage this greatly disfavor low skilled players from getting into the market. How about an anchorable deployable heat shield that lasts a certain amount of time?

my two cents.
Any room for radioactive asteriod that are unminable with normal equipment and may give reason to have long range lasers? I think ccp greyscale already poked the idea when i mentioned it in the last good mineing imrpovement thread, and tarminic will be using some of it for roid mode in his little game.

Radioactive riods are a grade 4th grade (or 5th) of existing riods that would emite harmful electronic warfare emissions such as the sort that distrupt purpolsuions targeting, warp enginges, electonic signature, and sensor range and lock speed and even clog up turrets to lower thier tracking rate. Some of the rarer ores could emit damage fields. Either way players would have outrange the emissions or pay particular attention to the enviroment they are in as the belt can quickly mean curtains for them, radius of the emissions should be large enough to encourage long range mining lasers though the mining implant set or ore laser.

Doc Iridium
Posted - 2008.05.01 05:59:00 - [56]

Edited by: Doc Iridium on 01/05/2008 06:00:47
They could add a lot to mining by simply allowing the chance of finding a strange wreck in asteroids as they pop. The bigger the roid, the bigger the wreck, the more valuable the ore, the more valuable the wreck salvage and loot might be. Modify by sec status as well. So a small veld roid in .9 sec might generate a wreck with a low end t1 armor repairer and a couple low end salvage pieces. A large mercoxit roid in -1.0 security might yield several t2 modules and a t2 salvage piece or two, or perhaps even a small chance of a single COSMOS / complex module.

Since larger roids are more likely to produce larger wrecks, people would be less likely to mine belts down to nothing, giving the younger players a chance to mine where now the older players just strip everything.

This might also encourage exploration for ore (large, untouched roids in decent numbers), and would support a high rate of interest in asteroid scanning as mentioned above. It would also encourage mining out missions, again letting the youngest players have more freedom to mine the highsec belts with fewer older players hoovering everything.

Wren Alterana
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2008.05.01 06:12:00 - [57]

I'm just going to drop an idea into the pot here.

why are the asteroids in the odd circular clumps it makes no sense, its not a belt.

instead i think there should be one large asteroid, that requires more skills to mine, with small asteroids broke off and drifting around it in a sort of cloud. the small, standard asteroids are available as long as the large roid remains, but once the large one is mined out, the small ones stop respawning.
also these large roids could be placed in a belt region, an area with a high concentration of them, this would be more realistic, since in real life, the asteroid belt is a very diffuse spread out group of roids. (sorry, the Star wars depiction of an asteroid field is rather wrong) another thing is that these large roids could orbit and drift around, occasionally colliding, breaking them apart and releasing rarer ores into the small roids that are left.

Ring mining: the rings of gas giants should be mineable some how, not sure how to do this though.

Doc Iridium
Posted - 2008.05.01 06:14:00 - [58]

I like the idea of multi-ore mining but It would seem to make t2 laser crystals require some thinking.

Perhaps strip miners would simply return "Ore" to the ship. One material name, but with different classes. Class 1 ore would be highsec ore. Class 10 ore would be -1.0 sec status system ore.

Your refining skills would then come into play - the better your refining skills, and the better the ore class, the better overall refining yield would be. Let there be some random variation, every now and then a high skill refiner might find a morphite or two in a very large batch of class 1 or 2 ore.

If you did mount a specific ore crystal into a strip miner, it would pull it's normal m3 without a crystal in "ore class <x>" but in addition it would pull it's bonus amount of the laser crystal ore type.

So, if you actually need a lot of trit for a build, you would put a veldspar crystal in. Trying to put a Arkanor crystal in a strip miner in 1.0 security should be disappointing, however Laughing Limit the crystals by the ore classes.

I can see a lot of potential in making mining more interesting.

Doc Iridium
Posted - 2008.05.01 06:18:00 - [59]

Edited by: Doc Iridium on 01/05/2008 06:19:55
Originally by: Wren Alterana
I'm just going to drop an idea into the pot here.

why are the asteroids in the odd circular clumps it makes no sense, its not a belt.

instead i think there should be one large asteroid, that requires more skills to mine, with small asteroids broke off and drifting around it in a sort of cloud. the small, standard asteroids are available as long as the large roid remains, but once the large one is mined out, the small ones stop respawning.
also these large roids could be placed in a belt region, an area with a high concentration of them, this would be more realistic, since in real life, the asteroid belt is a very diffuse spread out group of roids. (sorry, the Star wars depiction of an asteroid field is rather wrong) another thing is that these large roids could orbit and drift around, occasionally colliding, breaking them apart and releasing rarer ores into the small roids that are left.

Ring mining: the rings of gas giants should be mineable some how, not sure how to do this though.

There was talk at one time about system-wide belts, back before ice was introduced.

A lot of 0.0 belts are very spread out. The tiny, semicircle belts you see in highsec are not the rule in 0.0 - I've seen belts that stretched 700+ km from end to end.

Planetary rings are just gas and rock and ice - they could be mined like any other gas and rock and ice, if they were to be placed around planets and perhaps some moons.

Posted - 2008.05.01 11:04:00 - [60]

Originally by: Commander 598
Gases from Gas Giants (POS)

This would be something reserved for the whole planetary interaction thing. You'd put a colony on the planet and let them mine the atmosphere or whatever is found on the planet. Gas giants will yield mostly hydrogen though. Might unbalance the hydrogen isotope market a bit.
Planetary Rings (Ship)

Planetary rings could be made reachable with the ideas of system wide belt spawns in certain defined regions I describes in second post. The area of the belt would be defined as a possible belt spawn area and you can find one by using your on-board scanner at the planet. The belt location could then include some background animation to give a greater feel of being in a planetary ring. Quite similar to the toxic environment of the recon 3/3.
Solar Gases (POS)

Mining a star with a POS in low orbit sounds ok, though I have some issues with it concerning the kind of material that gets mined out, the limited number of stars per system that can be mined (lol) and the circumstance of having a POS close to a sun permanently without melting. To be honest I'd prefer the ship only mining of solar flares I described farther up. Wink

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