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blankseplocked Cross Training: Minmatar to Gallente
 
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VB Sarge
New Justice
Posted - 2008.01.01 00:13:00 - [1]
 

Don't get me wrong, Minmatar ships are working great for me. I'm just curious about the viability of swapping over to a Gallente BC for mainly gate/station macro popping.

I can last for a while with a Cane at a gate in low sec while solo with a dual MAR II set up, but I'm looking for something that can stand up to the guns a bit better. I have decent armor tanking skills, and was originally drawn to the Myrmidon as an option for this, putting 425mm AC II's on it instead of blasters, it should tank a little better and give me more range with my damage. I'll do less damage than I would in the Cane, though.

A few questions that I have are:
1 Has anyone done this with a favorable attitude?
2 Can you operate with only 1 MAR II? or do you need both to stay afloat?
3 How would you fit the mids? I'm thinking cap booster, ab, scram, sensor booster x2
4 How would you fit the lows? I'm thinking similar to the standard Cane gate set up, but curious on how others work it.


On the topic of battleships, I'm looking at comparing the Tempest and the Megathron, for the same situation. After running some quick math (not eft, real math) a single LAR II should keep me afloat against sentry guns, and I should be able to take things out quicker and last longer in a BS.
Which is generally preferred in this scenario? I plan to just sit in my neighborhood popping anything that undocks, which is usually pilots in bestowers with the name asdflkj or something similar.
Again, would AC's on a Mega work like how I have planned for the Myrm? Or would blasters be the better choice here? Does the Tempest have any advantage over the Mega in this catergory?

Please, even though I know this will be ignored, I am looking for experience, and NOT EFT warriors. Even if you only have experience in one of the fields, I'd love to hear it.

p.s. I am not looking at the use of rigs at this time


TimMc
Brutal Deliverance
Gypsy Band
Posted - 2008.01.01 00:19:00 - [2]
 

To answer your Myrmidon question, I think you should have had your fun before the nerf. Most people consider the brutix to be better after the gimping to the Myrmidons dronebay.

Standard mid slot fit is cap booster, mwd, scram, sensor booster and web.

Standard low slot fit is 2x LAR, 3x Hardeners amd DC.

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2008.01.01 00:21:00 - [3]
 

I've considered this for exactly the same reasons you did. I haven't done it yet though... and it may be quite a long time before I do!

-Liang

Lux Exterior
Corp 42
Dirt Nap Squad.
Posted - 2008.01.01 00:43:00 - [4]
 

I think that your skills will work well with drone boats, but only if your drone skills run to T2 heavies then a supertanked A/C domi can be fun.

VB Sarge
New Justice
Posted - 2008.01.01 01:20:00 - [5]
 

Liang, I plan to be sitting in a Myrm (or Brutix) in just a few days. Working on BC 4 right now and then it's a quick hop skip and a jump to Gallente Cruiser 4. I'll let you know how it goes when I try this out.

I'm a bit confused, are the tanks on the Brutix and Myrm roughly the same, as far as the bonus is concerned? They are worded differently, but seem to be about the same thing.

Drones are kind of a moot point with this, as they will be instantly popped by sentry guns, and as far as I'm concerned, not really worth it. Unless I want to micro manage with a stop watch and recall them every 20 seconds... I'd fit a full rack of medium drones anyways, as I doubt larges would get into position in time before I nuke the target with the guns first. T2 AC's on my Cane would go through any untanked hauler in about 2 salvo's, sometime's 3.

Bellum Eternus
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2008.01.01 10:45:00 - [6]
 

If you're looking for long duration gate camping and killing what I'm assuming are relatively defensless targets like haulers and smaller ships, why not just use a Drake?

IMO the Hurricane is far superior to a Myrm for gate camping. Faster base lock time, gun DPS that doesn't use cap and good agility if you have to leave in a hurry.

Dromidas Shadowmoon
Minmatar
54th Knights Templar
THORN Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.01 10:54:00 - [7]
 

Gallente are the best race for minmatar to crosstrain with, if you're gonna crosstrain at all. The drone skills you'll train to work with gallente will benefit minmatar a lot too.
But the only reason I'd train gallente would be for their HAC or commandships :P
But I won't stray from the ducttape path, minmatar all the way.

And yea, as mentioned, drake is really really good for gate/station ganking solo.

Reto
The Last Resort
Posted - 2008.01.01 13:34:00 - [8]
 

gallente ships are in general more resilient than minmatar and deal more dps. they however lack the comon matari speed and agility. gallente fighting style doesnt have the option of leaving the fight if it gets tight. they stay and either kill the enemy or go down with waying flags.

imo minmatar and galente mix pretty well i use the advantages of both races in different situations.

Segmentor
The Scope
Posted - 2008.01.01 13:40:00 - [9]
 

Minnie/Amarr mix well too. So many great AC boats on the amarr side... Laughing

Edriahn
Gallente
Sniggerdly
Posted - 2008.01.01 15:06:00 - [10]
 

Myrm is second in tanking only to the Drake. As with the drake, however, the DPS is rediculous. And the drones have a lot of problems - they are slow, need time to start dealing damage, die fast...
In terms of damage dealt Brutix is superior. It can tank, but not so good. This ships is really not about the tank. There are people, who make some good tanked setups, but I don't thnk thats the right way. Brutix is simple - comes and melts your face before your guns can shoot a single salvo.
And AC on Mega? Don't do it, unles you want to make many people angry... :) Megathron still has better DPS than tempest and also a better tank, I think. But I confess I'm very familiar with minnie ships.
Cross training minnie and gallente has it's advantages. Especially if you have a lot of money and wanna fight with style - Mach, Vigilant, Vindi... :)

Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2008.01.01 16:04:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Bellum Eternus
If you're looking for long duration gate camping and killing what I'm assuming are relatively defensless targets like haulers and smaller ships, why not just use a Drake?

IMO the Hurricane is far superior to a Myrm for gate camping. Faster base lock time, gun DPS that doesn't use cap and good agility if you have to leave in a hurry.


Well, drakes are riskier to use due to (typically) lack of MWD on the things.

At any rate, a dual-rep Hurricane has trouble with sentries unless you are using armour rigs, so I get where the OP is coming from. Plus, with a midslot for a senor booster (with lock time script) it locks things faster, making it a better boat for popping haulers/etc.

VB Sarge
New Justice
Posted - 2008.01.02 01:54:00 - [12]
 

The Drake doesn't make a viable gate camper imo. Sure, you can sit there not using any cap and tank forever, but you can't really do any damage or get in bump range before your target warps off.

Drones, I'll say again, are NOT an option for what this ship will be doing, so saying something about the drone bonus on the Myrm is not what I'm looking for. I'm looking for the best combination of gank and tank in a Battlecruiser, and so far from what I'm seeing, the Myrm and Cane are the two best at this. The Cane has more gank, but the Myrm more tank. If you put AC's on the Myrm, all of a sudden it has a bigger engagement radius, and should work well.
The more I think about it the better the idea seems. Sit at 0km on the gate, so all ships should be within 15k or so of you upon entering the system. Lock, with the sensor booster going scripted for lock time, scram, and open fire. Even cruiser sized ships will likely go down in a hurry, and maybe even BC's depending on set up. I'm hoping the more tank of the Myrm will give me that cushion that I'd like upon being forced to engage something that can shoot back. Any BC or bigger targets are going to eat my face, but that's why I'm going without rigs, to compensate for isk losses.

I was hoping to get a Myrm pilot or two to hop in here with some words of wisdom and info of how well it takes the sentry fire... oh well.

Putting AC's on the Mega was mainly an idea using the same philosophy as the Cane to Myrm crossing, using the weapons that I have the best skills for on a ship that can tank better. However at the battleship level missing out on the weapon damage bonus might be a bit much, and T1 blasters should work just as well, and only require minimal skill training.

Dec V
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2008.01.02 03:56:00 - [13]
 

I was doing the same thing, camping the gate in a hurricane with dual mar II. I could tank both gate guns as long as I had boosters, although in a gang I usually dont take simultaneous gate gun fire. I dunno about switching over to gallente bc, the tank will probably be better but the hurricane is just fkin awesome. I would advise going to a megathron from a tempest though, it seems it completely outclasses it in every situation.

Linium
Super Batungwaa Ninja Warriors
0ccupational Hazzard
Posted - 2008.01.02 05:22:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Linium on 02/01/2008 05:23:30
I started out as a pure Minmatar character but my Gallente skills have now caught up, having both to the same level really helps get the best of them. They have the best hacs, recons, af's, intys, BC and command ships and are fairly cross trainable. Both need good drone skills, navigation, engineering and gunnery.

My skills are here if you want to look.
Skills

To answer your question, i don't think the myrmidon will be much better for gate camping, sure the tank is a little better but as i am sure you know you won't often be able to use your drones and u will still need 2 MAR to tank for any length of time. If your in a small gang and sentrys cycle then both are fine as i am sure u will know. Losing drones to sentry fire ever 5 minutes is a pain tbh.

Mega and Pest are just as good as each other at popping haulers to be honest, both are very good but Mega has the edge in the world of trimarks and 1600 plates it is a 1v1 gank king.

Without using rigs that extra mid slot of the pest is great for a sensor booster which the mega can't fit without dropping a needed mod.

Its great to be able to use both imo.


Liet Traep
Minmatar
Dark-Rising
IT Alliance
Posted - 2008.01.02 07:17:00 - [15]
 

Originally by: Segmentor
Minnie/Amarr mix well too. So many great AC boats on the amarr side... Laughing
This is actually true. The Prophecy works well with ac's as does the apoc. I'm sure an abbadon with it's resistances would do well with ac's but then you're wasting a damage bonus. I have used briefly a prophecy to tank gate guns and pop frigs and haulers with. I don't remember the setup though but I would suggest 2x mar, 1600 rt plate and and a damage control. And it'll work just fine with ac's letting you use all your cap for tanking. Good Luck.

Sue Mee
Posted - 2008.01.02 12:12:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Edriahn

Cross training minnie and gallente has it's advantages. Especially if you have a lot of money and wanna fight with style - Mach, Vigilant, Vindi... :)


oh my... you beat me!!! i would cross train for the mach only. yeah, vindi is very nice too, but if you are minmatar, then training gallente BS for the mach is a must, IMO.

ps: dramiel is also a cute litle beast


 

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