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Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:33:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Gimpb on 20/12/2007 15:34:25
Edited by: Gimpb on 20/12/2007 15:33:16
I'm still fairly new, but something is baffling me big time.

Even as gallantene it seems like projectile weapons are just much better than hybrids, despite the racial ship bonuses for hybrid weapons.

My original thought was that the hybrids would do a little more damage for the energy they were burning, but it seems like a very minor amount if any, even with racial ship bonuses. But projectiles have the feather in their cap of being able to pick the right damage type for the job at hand, which seems to put them higher than hybrids for effective damage assuming you adjust your ammo choice to the situation.

The real kicker to me is the projectile weapons are energy-free and that's a whole lot of extra cap.

The projectile weapons also seem to have slightly lower range but also considerably lower fitting requirements.

Other than those areas, the two weapon classes seem more or less the same.


Am I missing something here?

Ymandra Raystara
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:44:00 - [2]
 

Edited by: Ymandra Raystara on 20/12/2007 15:44:10
If you're of the Gallente race and want to use projectile weapons... I recommend training the racial ships that use projectiles as a bonus. No Gallente ship will offer +x% damage, range, tracking, falloff, etc. to projectile weapons. There's no reason you can't use projectiles on Gallente ships, but there's also no real reason to use them either. Best to stick with the guns that benefit the ship imo. Unless it's a ship that doesn't offer any weapon bonuses (say focuses on drones or something).

Matalino
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:54:00 - [3]
 

Originally by: Gimpb
Am I missing something here?
When comparing the damage between hybrids and projectiles, are you just comparing the damage values from the ammo, or are you also factoring in the damage bonus and rate of fire from the turret?

If you are only comparing the base damage for the ammo, then I can see why you would think that they do similar damage.

Include the turret's effect on damage, and from my quick survey, hybrids have a significant advantage in DPS over projectiles. Compound that with ship bonuses, and there is little reason to use projectiles on Gallente ships.

HippoKing
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:13:00 - [4]
 

No projectiles will get close to the damage output of blasters (with no ship bonuses). Add a hybrid ship bonus to the equation and there's no competition.

Remember that DPS is damage divided by rate of fire - just because the projectiles do more per shot, doesn't make them better.

Railguns outdamage artillery, as well.

The only way you're going to see more damage from projectiles is Autocannons vs Railguns.

Gimpb
The Scope
Posted - 2007.12.21 00:34:00 - [5]
 

Well, this is an example I was looking at earlier:
150mm railrun I
vs
280mm howitzer artillery I

Both of those are the biggest size frigs/destroyers can hold so it seems a fair comparison.

For ammos, I'll use EMP-S and antimater shells. Both are -50% range high damage ammo so that also seems comparable. The EMP-S has 5 em, 4 explosive, and 2 kinetic for a total damage of 11. The antimater has 7 kinetic and 5 thermal for a total of 12.

So, the formula for damage as I understand it would be:
damage multiplier * ammo damage / weapon speed

For the 280mm howitzer with EMP-S that is:
6.783 * 11 / 9.13 = 8.1723

For the 150mm rail with antimater that is:
2.75 * 12 / 4.25 = 7.7647

So that's actually showing the projectile doing more damage?

The rail gun has slightly better tracking and range, but also has considerably higher fitting requirments. So it seems like you could use higher calibre projectile guns for the same cpu/grid.

It seems like a tossup before you even add in the damage type picking and lack of power consumption.

The only thing left is ship bonusses, but looking through the galantene ships is seems like most are 5% per rank to hybrid turrets so that's 25% at most. That just doesn't seem like a scale tipper when it's tilting the other way to start with.

Helen Hunts
Gallente
Red Dragon Mining inc
Red Dragon Industries
Posted - 2007.12.21 02:26:00 - [6]
 

Railguns have the longest reach of any turret in the game. Period.
Blasters are the most devastating turret in the game, but have the shortest range.

Blasters or Railguns on most Gallente ships get a damage multiplier which is on top of any skill-based damage multipliers the pilot may have.

Certain ships, like the Thorax, are better suited for blasters. The Thorax has the ability to get up-close-and-personal with a target and unload a ton of Antimatter in his face. (Very effective when done right)
Other ships make for excellent snipers, making the most of the extended reach of the Railgun, killing things at a far distance before they can get close enough to do damage.

Generally, a ship with Hybrid bonuses will be most effective with the proper size of Hybrid weapon. There are just a few setups where projectile weapons do better. (Passive Shield Tank setups usually use projectiles)

Something else that you're not noticing just yet is the fitting requirements of projectile vs. hybrid. Projectile weapons usually require just a bit more to fit than the hybrids. Some ship setups are very tight on fitting ability, and the lower requirements of the hybrids can allow everything to fit.

guywithtoomuchmoney
Posted - 2007.12.21 04:23:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Gimpb

For the 280mm howitzer with EMP-S that is:
6.0375 * 11 / 10.5 = 6.325

For the 150mm rail with antimater that is:
2.75 * 12 / 4.25 = 7.7647


I fixed your howitzer numbers for you. You probably were looking at the stats of a howie fitted to your ship, and were taking your skills into account.

Neither is really better than the other. Arties (Alpha Strike) and Rails (DPS) both fill good niches that will become more apparent as you move to med and large guns.

ZerKar
Caldari
Zen'Tar
Posted - 2007.12.21 10:36:00 - [8]
 

The Damage type concern is a problem for Hybrids. They have a pair of damage types that are universaly effective though, but if your enemy tanks up on Therm & Kenetic then you will have to rely on Drones that do other types of Damage to really get pain through.

Rails shoot further and faster than Artileries while having less Power Grid requirements but Do significantly less Damage Per Shot and fixed Damage types.

Blasters deal more Damage per Shot than Autocannons but Autos track pretty well, do not have fixed Damage types, and when fixed on Minmatar Ships that give Rate of Fire bonuses can send out an seemingly Endless bullet storm. (High RoF)

However, for Gallente the Ship Bonuses really DO matter. If you want to make Arts and Autos killer deadly they are much better off on Minmatar Ships with their RoF Bonuses and Damage Kicks. For Hybrids they NEED those Damage Bonuses, Especailly Rails, and the Gallente Provide them in Spades.

Now if you were asking about Hybrids vs. Arts on Caldari the only thing I would say to deter you would be that the Power Grid cost of them would make it impossible with how crappy Caldari Core is. Other than that, fit anything you want to those ships their Range Bonuses for Hybrids are worthless unless your Opponent's Engine is offline.


 

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