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Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Crimson Steel Empire
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:23:00 - [1]
 

I know it's been suggested before, but I've been wracking my brains and I can't for the life of me figure out why it actually isn't a good idea.....

Beef up the Sentry Guns in Low Sec to the point where they are very difficult to tank indeed.

That way, normal travel through Low Sec and to stations there, the places that the empires would actually protect, becomes feasible.

However, everything that you'd actually want to do in Lower Security space, mine, run POS, mission, rat - would all occur outside of the empire's control.

Yes - gate camping and station camping would be nigh on impossible - but so many more people would go there.

Make it a half-way house.

(I put this here, rather and Features & Ideas, as I'd really like to see if there is some support for this.....)

Regards

Brich'Es
Amarr
Viziam
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:44:00 - [2]
 

I dont endorse this product.

Trax L
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:49:00 - [3]
 

The "Kill low-sec AFKers and macro haulers association" does not aprove this product due to violations of several safety rules that are being breached.

techzer0
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:53:00 - [4]
 

Hmmm very interesting indeed. But can I answer you with one word?

NO!

Yaggher Xanuben
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:54:00 - [5]
 

Add 150km scram sentries at low sec gates to lock on aggressors :)

Stakhanov
Metafarmers
MeatSausage EXPRESS
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:57:00 - [6]
 

No. The half-way house should be 0.5-0.7 systems , "midsec" instead of highsec. They already have 4 sentries at gates / stations , they just need nerfed concord and faction police. Some game mechanics allowing outlaws to raid targets there , but not stick around for any length of time.

Khalm
Red Federation
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:59:00 - [7]
 

This surely would bring a lot more people to lowsec.

Dunno what other things it would do since I rarely do anything at lowsec. Every now and then I pass through. But thats it.

Okkie2
Posted - 2007.12.20 11:00:00 - [8]
 

I like the idea, but i also think this would only be good for .4 space, while in 0.1 you should have less defence then you have now. Atm there's too little difference between 0.1 and 0.4 (this is also the same for 0.5 - 1.0). Right now there's 0.0, lowsec and high-sec and i would be nice to have a sec-status which actually means something.

Cruthensis
Gallente
Xeno Tech Corp
Self Destruct.
Posted - 2007.12.20 11:03:00 - [9]
 

How about escalating damage:

You can the tank sentries, sure, but over time the damage sentries deliver increases. This could be simply linked to the agro-timer (with respect to which sentries you've agroed) and the sec of the system.

Sentry damage in 0.4 would logically increase quicker than in 0.1. You could still tank them for a while, but it would reach a point where you have to warp out to wait out the agro. It would also increase risk a bit, as if tackled at the wrong time, you'd could be held down and toasted by the sentries.

It would not spell the end of gate/station camping, but would mean that you couldn't do it solo all day without interruption. It would also encourage a bit more co-op and teamplay on gate camp teams.

As it is, lo-sec sentries may as well not be there for all the difference they make.

Yaggher Xanuben
Minmatar
Republic Military School
Posted - 2007.12.20 11:05:00 - [10]
 

Well, actually the system sec status does mean something.
You can't enter 0.5 if your own sec status is -... etc.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.12.20 11:11:00 - [11]
 

Edited by: Alski on 20/12/2007 11:20:42

Nope, there is nothing wrong with lowsec gate camps.

What the problem with lowsec is, is that the rewards are not worth it for anyone but explorers.

Mining = rubbish.

Ratting = worse than rubbish, even a week old newbie can make more on L2 missions than they can ratting lowsec.

My thoughts on how to fix lowsec before have basically been:

-make a real distinction between 0.4 to 0.3 to 0.2 etc, there should be a greater difference of potential isk making per step.

-introduce +15%, +20%, +25% variants of the common ores found there already, these should also be found in 0.0 as well

-introduce some of the lower 0.0 ores like spod, dark ochre etc into 0.1 and mabey 0.2 systems.

-increase bounties on some of the rats, make some lower sec systems such as 0.1-0.2 able to spawn multiple decent cruiser spawns with high bounties, say ~400k, and include the odd (rare) BS spawn.

-more faction loot droping rats, officers, or something to encourage people to go for the big prizes.

-better and more lowsec exploration sites, heavy combat sites that actually drop decent amounts of good loot (not necessarily faction, maybe just plenty of best named and salvage), more sites that require medium sized gangs to run.

And overall just give people more reason to go there, secure the space, pirate, fight pirates, etc, if lowsec was actuley worth going to for most people, they would.

Igetshotalot
THE LEGION OF STEEL WARRIORS....
R0ADKILL
Posted - 2007.12.20 12:54:00 - [12]
 

with teh introduction and heavy interdictors witha highslot infinite scrambler im not so sure if tehre shouldnt be a lil harder hitting sentries tbh..

broadsword/onyx with a 800-1k dps tank + infintie scram will tank 2-4 sentries for ages while keeping everything in place at the same time.

lowsec senteies need a boost!


Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:01:00 - [13]
 

Yes, this is a good idea.

Gate camps are stupid, those who like them are useless in real PVP fights. If you want to gank people in lowsec, there are plenty of opportunities to do so in belts / missions. More so if people can actually enter lowsec.



Cpt Branko
Retired Pirate Club
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:26:00 - [14]
 

Edited by: Cpt Branko on 20/12/2007 13:28:41
Originally by: Lazuran
Yes, this is a good idea.

Gate camps are stupid, those who like them are useless in real PVP fights. If you want to gank people in lowsec, there are plenty of opportunities to do so in belts / missions. More so if people can actually enter lowsec.



Low-sec areas between two high-sec areas often see industrials travelling through which don't stop in low-sec. Killing them is sometimes quite profitable, which is why pirates gatecamp on occasion amongst other reasons.

Those who gatecamp are not useless in real PvP fights - that's just stupid to say. Considering probably everyone in their EvE carrier who has done PvP has gatecamped at some point (or ganked people at gates), that means virtually all of EvE's PvP population is useless in real PvP fights, making me wonder what are real PvP fights.

People can enter and roam low-sec just fine in a frig/inty or even AF/destroyer, and a cruiser is reasonably safe as long as it's sensibly fitted.

Before I became a low-sec pirate, I did a ton of low-sec ratting for about two months: only time I died was when I was picking a fight. Never had a single problem entering or leaving or surviving in low-sec.


At any rate, low-sec sentries are just fine. They require a BC to really gatecamp, meaning small and fast things get through, and you really do need a gang to murder proper combat ships at gates, as the 320ish DPS from sentry guns is no laughing matter.

Matrixcvd
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:27:00 - [15]
 

stop racking your brain, its not going to help. Learn to get past gate camps, which are extremely easy in low sec, bring friends, or don't go. Tired of this "whine whine whine. Gate guns, nerf nerf nerf, suicide gank sucks, WHERD DA POLEECE AT?, i died and lost all my isk."

I don't want your stuff but i will give you a piece of advice. This game is hard, you are going to die, you are going to get uspet, either take pillz, deal o-natural, or quit, then give your stuff to the next person who asks for it. The greatest mistake in eve is to let people in from WoW, i am flat out conviced, there have never been this many threads about "nerf this" "boo hoo this is too hard" "he has more sp than me" "i accidently jumped into a gate camp but COULDN'T LOOK AT MY MAP TO SEE THE RED BLOB, I SUXOR TO THE MAXOR"

to the only interesting thought in this thread, whatever differentiation between low-sec and 0.0 is made, any value placed there, a larger better equiped alliance near the 0.0 region would claim it. So for the average player it probably would make it more dangerous as you now would have a concerted effort from a corp/alliance, against a single player. There already is alot of action in low-sec as you can see by our OP and the constant whine from the orc's and firemages learning how to move in 3 dimensions. But if they could come up with some way to make it more profitable it would be great, but in the end all you would have is 7000 more threads as more morons try to right checks their mighty bantam of doom can't cash

Rhaegor Stormborn
BURN EDEN
Northern Coalition.
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:36:00 - [16]
 

I would prefer battles in space over battles at gates, but I don't know how this would work out honestly. The mining is just not worth it in low-sec, so no one does it. They do run missions though, and people are probed out all the time. Meh. Make low-sec more valuable so more people go there over high-sec. That is the only option.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:41:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Matrixcvd
stop racking your brain, its not going to help. Learn to get past gate camps, which are extremely easy in low sec, bring friends, or don't go. Tired of this "whine whine whine. Gate guns, nerf nerf nerf, suicide gank sucks, WHERD DA POLEECE AT?, i died and lost all my isk."

I don't want your stuff but i will give you a piece of advice. This game is hard, you are going to die, you are going to get uspet, either take pillz, deal o-natural, or quit, then give your stuff to the next person who asks for it. The greatest mistake in eve is to let people in from WoW, i am flat out conviced, there have never been this many threads about "nerf this" "boo hoo this is too hard" "he has more sp than me" "i accidently jumped into a gate camp but COULDN'T LOOK AT MY MAP TO SEE THE RED BLOB, I SUXOR TO THE MAXOR"

to the only interesting thought in this thread, whatever differentiation between low-sec and 0.0 is made, any value placed there, a larger better equiped alliance near the 0.0 region would claim it. So for the average player it probably would make it more dangerous as you now would have a concerted effort from a corp/alliance, against a single player. There already is alot of action in low-sec as you can see by our OP and the constant whine from the orc's and firemages learning how to move in 3 dimensions. But if they could come up with some way to make it more profitable it would be great, but in the end all you would have is 7000 more threads as more morons try to right checks their mighty bantam of doom can't cash


Quoteing this for Truth, but also for...
Originally by: Matrixcvd
orc's and firemages learning how to move in 3 dimensions.
Laughing

Although on this:
Originally by: Matrixcvd
whatever differentiation between low-sec and 0.0 is made, any value placed there, a larger better equiped alliance near the 0.0 region would claim it.


While i think your probaley right, if that were the case then it would just be anouther sign that 0.0 also needs to be made a little more profitable to keep the risk/reward ballance between high/low/nullsec in check, as imho it currentley is not.

dan drorgar
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:56:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Matrixcvd
stop racking your brain, its not going to help. Learn to get past gate camps, which are extremely easy in low sec, bring friends, or don't go. Tired of this "whine whine whine. Gate guns, nerf nerf nerf, suicide gank sucks, WHERD DA POLEECE AT?, i died and lost all my isk."

I don't want your stuff but i will give you a piece of advice. This game is hard, you are going to die, you are going to get uspet, either take pillz, deal o-natural, or quit, then give your stuff to the next person who asks for it. The greatest mistake in eve is to let people in from WoW, i am flat out conviced, there have never been this many threads about "nerf this" "boo hoo this is too hard" "he has more sp than me" "i accidently jumped into a gate camp but COULDN'T LOOK AT MY MAP TO SEE THE RED BLOB, I SUXOR TO THE MAXOR"

to the only interesting thought in this thread, whatever differentiation between low-sec and 0.0 is made, any value placed there, a larger better equiped alliance near the 0.0 region would claim it. So for the average player it probably would make it more dangerous as you now would have a concerted effort from a corp/alliance, against a single player. There already is alot of action in low-sec as you can see by our OP and the constant whine from the orc's and firemages learning how to move in 3 dimensions. But if they could come up with some way to make it more profitable it would be great, but in the end all you would have is 7000 more threads as more morons try to right checks their mighty bantam of doom can't cash


Why is it always the people with almost no PVP results who tell everyone how the game should be hard and people who don't like this or that should go back to WoW?

I am not impressed.


Wu Jiun
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:05:00 - [19]
 

Edited by: Wu Jiun on 20/12/2007 14:10:57
But why is there so many camping? Because fights happen on gates mostly. This is the same in 0.0 if you didn't notice.

There are only noobs in the belts ratting and mining. And if for some odd reason they are not they'll just not get caught.

Missions? You need quite a bit of time to probe people (if you lucky its like 1 scan but normally its rather like 15-30minutes if you don't have 1gazillion bms for exploration probes). So they have plenty time to leave the deadspace when they notice you or your probes. And even if you make it into the deadspace they are already 60km away from the gate once you enter. And no mwd is allowed meaning they have plenty time to warp out. And thats not even counting how rare lowsec mission peeps actually are.

So whats left? The gates. Everyone who travels through lowsec has to use gates. (apart from capitals and every dedicated group of individuals should be able to get a carrier within half a year) Many people only want to get *through* lowsec (i.e. to get to 0.0 or make a short trade run). If you cannot catch them at gates you will catch them nowhere because they won't make a short mining break in the belt next to you while carrying expensive cargo. That basically would mean they're invincible if your idea gets implemented. Thats not risk vs. reward.

I know both sides. I have a pirate alt but also a lowsec exploration alt. He lived in lowsec for months now and only got busted once in a 6/10 complex. Because i was lazy and didn't watch my scanner not because lowsec is so omgwtf dangerous. He has made a whole lot of money in that time and also had some fun being on his toes.

Lowsec is fine.

Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:14:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Alski

Although on this:
Originally by: Matrixcvd
whatever differentiation between low-sec and 0.0 is made, any value placed there, a larger better equiped alliance near the 0.0 region would claim it.


While i think your probaley right, if that were the case then it would just be anouther sign that 0.0 also needs to be made a little more profitable to keep the risk/reward ballance between high/low/nullsec in check, as imho it currentley is not.



Something that you whiners about the low reward of 0.0 constantly forget is that you are asking to bolster the PvE rewards of 70% of the EVE systems.

If really 0.0 was bolstered to the level you want the end results would be hyperinflation.

You could increase the 0.0 rewards at least on the alliance/corporation level allowing more people to get there, so that the markets would work and the belts would be miner even of the middle range minerals. As long as 0.0 entities keep the border closed against any other presence the local economy will be too small to really work

Atreides Horza
Caldari
Malum.
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:17:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Alski
Edited by: Alski on 20/12/2007 11:20:42

Nope, there is nothing wrong with lowsec gate camps.

What the problem with lowsec is, is that the rewards are not worth it for anyone but explorers.

Mining = rubbish.

Ratting = worse than rubbish, even a week old newbie can make more on L2 missions than they can ratting lowsec.

My thoughts on how to fix lowsec before have basically been:

-make a real distinction between 0.4 to 0.3 to 0.2 etc, there should be a greater difference of potential isk making per step.

-introduce +15%, +20%, +25% variants of the common ores found there already, these should also be found in 0.0 as well

-introduce some of the lower 0.0 ores like spod, dark ochre etc into 0.1 and mabey 0.2 systems.

-increase bounties on some of the rats, make some lower sec systems such as 0.1-0.2 able to spawn multiple decent cruiser spawns with high bounties, say ~400k, and include the odd (rare) BS spawn.

-more faction loot droping rats, officers, or something to encourage people to go for the big prizes.

-better and more lowsec exploration sites, heavy combat sites that actually drop decent amounts of good loot (not necessarily faction, maybe just plenty of best named and salvage), more sites that require medium sized gangs to run.

And overall just give people more reason to go there, secure the space, pirate, fight pirates, etc, if lowsec was actuley worth going to for most people, they would.


This.

Alski
Ministers Of Destruction.
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:43:00 - [22]
 

Edited by: Alski on 20/12/2007 14:47:05
Originally by: Venkul Mul

Something that you whiners


"whiner"? really? would you like to try reading my post again and noticeing the lack of whine? i think the consensus is pritty clear as to the value and risk/reward ballance of lowsec, and if you'd like to have a rational argument, try toneing down the ad hominem.

Originally by: Venkul Mul

about the low reward of 0.0 constantly forget is that you are asking to bolster the PvE rewards of 70% of the EVE systems.



~70% of the Eve universe where only a small fraction of Eve's actual population lives, Yes. Also don't forget that most 0.0 space is barren and empty, regardless of weather an alliance has claimed the space, the *relativeley* few people there are tend to cluster around outpost systems, much of 0.0 is unused.

Originally by: Venkul Mul
If really 0.0 was bolstered to the level you want the end results would be hyperinflation.


I never said anything about what "level" i wanted 0.0 boosted to, i mearley said that if lowsec was boosted and became profitable for 0.0 alliances to claim, then it would be a sign that 0.0 is not profitable enouth, i have my own opinions on weather that is the case, but that did not factor into my ideas for improveing lowsec beyond some better low-end ores for 0.0 miners who lothe mining low-ends when they could be mining ark or crok.

To awnser the hyperinflation question though, i don't beleave that a small well ballanced increse in potential 0.0 income would lead to any inflation at all, over the last 2 years empire has become MUCH more profitable than it ever was before, and in contrast most stuff is actuley getting cheeper.

Originally by: Venkul Mul

You could increase the 0.0 rewards at least on the alliance/corporation level allowing more people to get there, so that the markets would work and the belts would be miner even of the middle range minerals.


Agreed, but its always been a very difficult question of how to achieve this, how do you implement something new that makes isk on an alliance or corp level that doesent allow an individual the same opportunity? example: high end moon minerals.

Telschak
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:16:00 - [23]
 

I don't support this

Lowsec is not that dangrous to be honest + most of the low sec systems Ive been in have had just about the same number in local as high sec systems.

Just apply the same skills as in high sec (dangerous indeed) and 0.0 (Did someone called 0.0 dangerous???).

1. Watch local, get to know local

2. Use scout if possible, this could me corpmate or a friend from said local chat.

3. When you jump into a system without scout, use the default cloaking to assess the surroundings. Where would it take the least time to align etc. What else is around the gate. Heck I have even made bm:s a few thousand km from some gates so I have a bm directly infront of where I appear. That way insta align (well almost)

4. Make bms a few 1000 km from exit gate. Warp to that bm first then scan the gate using directional scanner. This takes very little extra time and might save you.

5. Fit cloak on everything that isn't a pvp ship. No exceptions imo.

That said I understand you somewhat regarding gankers @ gates.
I dont care for **** if I get ganked by someone that ransoms me first, that I am at war with or simply do it for whatever RP perspective.

However plp that just blow up ships for fun (especially defenseless pilots) make me feel sick to the bone. Even thou this is a game I feel as disturbed by those plp as those that kill plp for no reason IRL. (not that any reason is valid imo, but that belongs in offtopic forums)


Venkul Mul
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:17:00 - [24]
 

Edited by: Venkul Mul on 20/12/2007 15:19:19
Originally by: Alski
Originally by: Venkul Mul

Something that you whiners


"whiner"? really? would you like to try reading my post again and noticeing the lack of whine? i think the consensus is pritty clear as to the value and risk/reward ballance of lowsec, and if you'd like to have a rational argument, try toneing down the ad hominem.



It is not ab hominem, as it is not direct specifically against you, it about a group, try a little forum search, there are plenty of player asking for a reduction in rewards in high sec and a increase in 0.0, with a serious percentage asking for faction loot in every spawn and frequent officer loot (much more rare someone asking for better ores).

You can feel that you are not whining but I am a bit feed up that every time someone say that the rewards in high sec aren't so stellar as PvPers think (not asking for a increase, only not to decrease them again) there are 20 people jumping in saying he is a whiner.

Originally by: Alski

Originally by: Venkul Mul

about the low reward of 0.0 constantly forget is that you are asking to bolster the PvE rewards of 70% of the EVE systems.
----
You could increase the 0.0 rewards at least on the alliance/corporation level allowing more people to get there, so that the markets would work and the belts would be miner even of the middle range minerals.



~70% of the Eve universe where only a small fraction of Eve's actual population lives, Yes. Also don't forget that most 0.0 space is barren and empty, regardless of weather an alliance has claimed the space, the *relativeley* few people there are tend to cluster around outpost systems, much of 0.0 is unused.



Exactly the point I was raising. 0.0 has low rewards because the most profitable activity of high sec, trade, is practically dead. allowing more unaligned people in the claimed systems will allow more local trade, more taxes for the owning corporations, and in general more isk at the corporation/alliance level, even without an increase in rewards for the player level.

0.0 is profitable, but the profits are funneled immediately in high sec systems, instead of developing the local economy. A noticeable percentage of high sec profit is done on 0.0 isk moving to the market, with people often selling low and buying high a they want to do a fast buck and getting the moadules fast before returning in 0.0.

Originally by: Alski

Originally by: Venkul Mul
If really 0.0 was bolstered to the level you want the end results would be hyperinflation.



I never said anything about what "level" i wanted 0.0 boosted



OK

Originally by: Alski

To awnser the hyperinflation question though, i don't beleave that a small well ballanced increse in potential 0.0 income would lead to any inflation at all, over the last 2 years empire has become MUCH more profitable than it ever was before, and in contrast most stuff is actuley getting cheeper.



You are forgetting a little thing here. In those 2 years the rewards in high sec have been lowered, not increased. While the rewards in 0.0 have been increased.

What has changed is the relative price of ores (essentially player controlled, when not influenced by exploit like reprocessing NPC sold modules), but for the rest 0.0 has gotten better bounties while high sec has see them lowered.

The much relative poverty of 0.0 is determined by:

a) massive wars lasting more than a year with practically no interruption (and if 0.0 has so little reward the question is how they are financing those wars);

b) people transferring isk and items made in 0.0 immediately in high sec. Essentially the isk made in 0,0 run there only 1 time and get no multiplication, then they get in high sec where they do multiple circuit before leaving the system. So the same isk make rich a trader, the producer selling to the trader, the miner selling to the producer, and again the trader that sell to the miner.

0.0 cut trade from the cycle, killing it immediately.

Feilamya
Pain Elemental
Posted - 2007.12.20 15:22:00 - [25]
 

You know what I fear most in lowsec?

Devs and ppl with stupid ideas.

Kuzya Morozov
Gallente
Capital Construction Research
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:07:00 - [26]
 

LoL? nt carebear, trying to cleverly hide it under the ruse of "more people coming to lowsec". Deal with the camps buddy, and stop whining.

jongalt
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:15:00 - [27]
 

marcus,

low-sec is fine. all the things you "want" to do in low-sec is already being done. and with a modicum of "safety".

you have to leave room for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, though.

-jg.


RuleoftheBone
Minmatar
Black Viper Nomads
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:15:00 - [28]
 

Based on jaunting around Cloud Ring a couple days ago CCP may as well turn that into losec as well. Aside from the Frege folks huddled up in 9-4RP2 and XZH-4X its tumbleweed city out there Cool.

Hint for the OP--Use a scout Wink.


Pwett
QUANT Corp.
QUANT Hegemony
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:19:00 - [29]
 

Heck I WANT more people in low-sec so I can shoot at them. People in valuable PVE or mining ships that I can shoot at. All you get are noobies in t1 frigs and whatever 'anti-pirates' are around trying to push their fascist propagandas.

Zaskarr
Amarr
DOOMSDAY.
Axiom Empire
Posted - 2007.12.20 16:44:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Alski
Edited by: Alski on 20/12/2007 11:20:42

Nope, there is nothing wrong with lowsec gate camps.

What the problem with lowsec is, is that the rewards are not worth it for anyone but explorers.

Mining = rubbish.

Ratting = worse than rubbish, even a week old newbie can make more on L2 missions than they can ratting lowsec.

My thoughts on how to fix lowsec before have basically been:

-make a real distinction between 0.4 to 0.3 to 0.2 etc, there should be a greater difference of potential isk making per step.

-introduce +15%, +20%, +25% variants of the common ores found there already, these should also be found in 0.0 as well

-introduce some of the lower 0.0 ores like spod, dark ochre etc into 0.1 and mabey 0.2 systems.

-increase bounties on some of the rats, make some lower sec systems such as 0.1-0.2 able to spawn multiple decent cruiser spawns with high bounties, say ~400k, and include the odd (rare) BS spawn.

-more faction loot droping rats, officers, or something to encourage people to go for the big prizes.

-better and more lowsec exploration sites, heavy combat sites that actually drop decent amounts of good loot (not necessarily faction, maybe just plenty of best named and salvage), more sites that require medium sized gangs to run.

And overall just give people more reason to go there, secure the space, pirate, fight pirates, etc, if lowsec was actuley worth going to for most people, they would.


I endorse these suggestions.


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