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Iasius
Gallente
Short Bus Pole Dancers
Posted - 2007.12.19 16:10:00 - [151]
 

If you work in an office with its inane politics you need something like EVE to blow off steam 'in character'. So im up for smacktalk if its funny. But what is funny or not is subjective.

dakka dakka dakka lazors die ebil enemy YARRRR!!

Althair Erin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.19 16:13:00 - [152]
 

Wow! Look at all these great posts I woke up to! Thanks guys for your thoughtful contributions. I'll do my best to address some of the points raised.


Jhyme:

I do agree with you that there's a place for competition and even competitive language. I think it will be one of the biggest hurdles we face in erecting a more civil society here. It isn't easy to take 'smacktalking' to your face and not feel hurt by it. It would require a concerted effort of the playerbase- and that's exactly what I'm proposing- to take us outside of the realm of the old political hatreds and into a more fun-loving atmosphere. If we could give people the mental concept of the 'artistic' smack that goes on between wrestlers, that might be the most effective way to dilute the vitriol while keeping open the ways of expressing our competitive nature.

Ritualized combat is also a really important factor here. Wrestling of course is full of rituals- Sumo I think is the best example of this. Any fan can tell you that the actual wrestling moment is only part of the show. The elaborate rituals of purification and preparation are just as important. We practice rituals here maybe without even knowing it. What else is saying 'gf' or 'gg' or 'hf' but a way of communicating in a ritualistic fashion? I think we could expand these universal rituals and symbols, flesh them out, because nothing ameliorates ones hard feelings and transforms pain to joy like a ritual that you can really engage with.

Dionisius:

I really like the points you've made. I think that the rest of the EVE community would enjoy some RolePlaying if they gave it a try. Maybe we could combine the idea of 'guided tours' with 'guided roleplay' where some more experienced roleplayers mentor a group of volunteers from other alliances in a short roleplaying session. I bet a lot of the anger or lack of respect for the roleplaying community comes from the fact that people don't actually understand it, or what it can offer in terms of fun.

I'm so glad you also feel that the older generation has a responsibility toward the younger, as the newer players of EVE our attempts to change the tides of history would be strengthened by the support of our elders.

I know Arvo made you mad, but let's try to speak as politely as possible to each other in this thread. You both have said important things, and I don't want either of you to get in trouble for flaming. I think it's your responsibility to preserve your presence here so we can continue this discussion!

Dionisius
Gallente
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:15:00 - [153]
 

Originally by: Althair Erin

(...)

Dionisius:

I really like the points you've made. I think that the rest of the EVE community would enjoy some RolePlaying if they gave it a try. Maybe we could combine the idea of 'guided tours' with 'guided roleplay' where some more experienced roleplayers mentor a group of volunteers from other alliances in a short roleplaying session. I bet a lot of the anger or lack of respect for the roleplaying community comes from the fact that people don't actually understand it, or what it can offer in terms of fun.

I'm so glad you also feel that the older generation has a responsibility toward the younger, as the newer players of EVE our attempts to change the tides of history would be strengthened by the support of our elders.

I know Arvo made you mad, but let's try to speak as politely as possible to each other in this thread. You both have said important things, and I don't want either of you to get in trouble for flaming. I think it's your responsibility to preserve your presence here so we can continue this discussion!


Well its like this Erin, i'm kinda old school when it comes to playing games, i do it, and i believe in programing for fun.

One of the great reasons i joined EvE, and i regret not joining it sooner, was the comunity, the depth of the game and every other feature.

The thing that i don't get is this, why , if we are one comunity, are the RP'ers away from the other folk?I meen i play this game with a couple of chars and i roleplay in one a law abiding citizen, the other is this character, a darker character with doubious reasons ( or not ) and a third one wich i am still thinkin on what way to follow.

Never ever in any game, have i seen such hostility towards others, i meen, i understand that everyone wants to win, and stand out in the crowd, but at what expense?

I really don't care if Verone is famous, or Star Fraction is the flavour corp of the moment, and certainly i enjoy the great war that is unfolding.

What i don't enjoy, or at least would like someone to enlighten me is the atitude some players take towards others, i meen i know i was arsh in my answer but Arvo could have answered diferently because i was not flaming i was just pointing what some people feel, many don't care about the game or if the foruns are in a bad state atm.

There was a time were i enjoyed reading a post by Seleene were the Mercenary Coalition fought the Pirate Coalition, it was a nice read, or many other anouncements that took place, i even enjoyed reading Crime and Punishment, but now look at it please and tell me, the amount of open threads do they make sense? The atitude of older players scorning younger ones or the elistist atitude, someone might think that their 15 euros are less valuable than the other guys, they are not.

Remember Ginger when he got banned because he lost his temper, provoked by others deliberately?I meen its no excuse but neither they had to provoke that, and an old player got banned and people cheared a sad event, i even got a Evemail saying that one of the involved parties was a celebrity and so it made things ok.

This is a game , sure i want to go and shoot people, Goons want to win to BoB and BoB to goons but at least take into consideration that this is not RL, we play this to abstract ourselves from RL and enjoy a bit of fun with others from around the world in a virtual galaxy.

I think its not to much to ask if people started to be a bit more civilized around here, there is already too much greed and anger in our lives, at work etc, so why bring it in here?

My thoughts on the matter and my apologies to Arvo.

Avon
Caldari
Versatech Co.
Raiden.
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:18:00 - [154]
 

ITT a goon trys to adopt the community which his alliance mocked and shunned.

Serious business.

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:20:00 - [155]
 

Discussion of forum moderation and trolling is not permitted. ~Saint

SpaceHonorNinjabot9000
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:25:00 - [156]
 

Originally by: Avon
ITT a goon trys to adopt the community which his alliance mocked and shunned.

Serious business.


Even in the Christmas season you cannot find it in your heart to give peace a chance? I will pray for you tonight at church my fellow pod pilot.

Jesus is the reason for the season,
SHNB

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:27:00 - [157]
 

Back on topic.

It looks like OHGOD have now directed their forum warriors to move in a new direction.

So be it, but until it is seen that actions follow words in game, it will remain nothing but that, words.

I don't bear a grudge against OHGOD, they just show up red all the time in my overview Wink I can also imagine that many people in the community feel the same way.

You are trying to come to the community with a olive branch after trying to close the server down, how did think that everyone would react ? Welcome you with open arms and say "Hey, all is forgiven." ?

Time will tell if this is only a December stunt.

Drakma
Gallente
Buttered On The Wrong Side
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:33:00 - [158]
 

i read all of this thinking it was a pepsi ad.

Allister Feind
Amarr
V I R I I
Posted - 2007.12.19 18:55:00 - [159]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Back on topic.

It looks like OHGOD have now directed their forum warriors to move in a new direction.

So be it, but until it is seen that actions follow words in game, it will remain nothing but that, words.

I don't bear a grudge against OHGOD, they just show up red all the time in my overview Wink I can also imagine that many people in the community feel the same way.

You are trying to come to the community with a olive branch after trying to close the server down, how did think that everyone would react ? Welcome you with open arms and say "Hey, all is forgiven." ?

Time will tell if this is only a December stunt.



LMAO! do you really believe this is anything but a goonie joke post? if the OP was serious he would have been kicked by now! they are all laughing at you for taking the bait

Jaabaa Prime
Minmatar
Brutor Tribe
Posted - 2007.12.19 19:03:00 - [160]
 

Originally by: Allister Feind
LMAO! do you really believe this is anything but a goonie joke post? if the OP was serious he would have been kicked by now! they are all laughing at you for taking the bait

I guess you didn't read the whole thread, or my posts from yesterday evening starting on page 2.

Of course I don't take goons posts seriously, I'm just waiting for their next response, be it religious, or feel sorry for us because we feel misunderstood, or that its the Christmas and asking people to join and help blob others.

Montasque
Amarr
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.19 19:07:00 - [161]
 

Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Back on topic.

It looks like OHGOD have now directed their forum warriors to move in a new direction.

So be it, but until it is seen that actions follow words in game, it will remain nothing but that, words.

I don't bear a grudge against OHGOD, they just show up red all the time in my overview Wink I can also imagine that many people in the community feel the same way.

You are trying to come to the community with a olive branch after trying to close the server down, how did think that everyone would react ? Welcome you with open arms and say "Hey, all is forgiven." ?

Time will tell if this is only a December stunt.


We as an alliance have made many mistakes.

One principle I want to explain really quick which is textbook evolutionary psychology is the idea of the least costly mistake. Because organisms have to make all their decisions based on imperfect information, they're always going to make mistakes. You always try to make the best percentage choice that you can, but you're always going to screw up at some point. At some point you're gonna be wrong, no matter how good your decision is.

Our alliance has been wrong to treat the average player of EvE wrong, it was a mistake. We deserve the right to try and show that we can be better, and pay it forward.

Althair Erin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.19 19:08:00 - [162]
 

Originally by: Allister Feind
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Back on topic.

It looks like OHGOD have now directed their forum warriors to move in a new direction.

So be it, but until it is seen that actions follow words in game, it will remain nothing but that, words.

I don't bear a grudge against OHGOD, they just show up red all the time in my overview Wink I can also imagine that many people in the community feel the same way.

You are trying to come to the community with a olive branch after trying to close the server down, how did think that everyone would react ? Welcome you with open arms and say "Hey, all is forgiven." ?

Time will tell if this is only a December stunt.



LMAO! do you really believe this is anything but a goonie joke post? if the OP was serious he would have been kicked by now! they are all laughing at you for taking the bait


I'm not laughing. Your accusations are not only hurtful, they add nothing to this really good conversation.

I'm glad to hear you don't bear a grudge, because that's a really huge hurdle that a lot of players are facing- the fact that they do carry some serious grudges toward each other and other alliances.

What troubles me here is the idea that I am included in the same sentence as the accusation 'try to close the server down' when I don't even know what you mean. I read our internal forums, talk regularly to my fellow pilots, but whatever you are talking about must be before my time if it ever happened. Which is exactly the point I've been making- I'm standing out here and saying "Yes, my ticker says GoonFleet but it's wrong to identify me and so many other new players with the grudges of the past"

So can you tell me honestly, do you -want- to have someone to hate, or would you prefer it if we could all communicate more openly and with a greater sense of community?

SpaceHonorNinjabot9000
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.19 19:51:00 - [163]
 

Edited by: SpaceHonorNinjabot9000 on 19/12/2007 19:51:12
Dont taze me bro - (Brosefs 3:16)
Leave Britney alone! - (Brosefs II 4:20)

Orebuster
Gallente
GoonWaffe
SOLODRAKBANSOLODRAKBANSO
Posted - 2007.12.19 20:16:00 - [164]
 

Originally by: Allister Feind

LMAO! do you really believe this is anything but a goonie joke post? if the OP was serious he would have been kicked by now! they are all laughing at you for taking the bait


Apparently, we aren't going to be allowed to turn over a new leaf. The deeds of those pilots who've preceeded us are to brand us forever. If I was in your position, I would welcome a change of heart by GS, but I understand your suspicion. How about giving us the benefit of the doubt. There is an old Hebrew expression, "If you're going to make a mistake, make it in your favor". What I mean is, it can't hurt you to allow a kinder, gentler GF to flourish, why do you want to tear it down before it can even grow?

"Walk down that lonesome road
All by yourself
Don't turn your head
Back over your shoulder
And only stop to rest yourself
When the silver moon
Is shining high
Above the trees....

If I had stopped to listen once or twice
If I had closed my mouth and opened my eyes
If I had cooled my head and warmed my heart
I'd not be on
This road tonight

Carry on, Carry on
Never mind feeling sorry for yourself
It doesn't save you from your troubled mind

Illyria Ambri
Caldari
RennTech
SMASH Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.19 21:36:00 - [165]
 

Originally by: Althair Erin
In the short time that I have been a player in EVE and a member of Goonswarm, I've observed the incredible amount of hatred and rage that many players feel toward each other, and other corporations.

When I fly through space not owned by my Alliance or allies I feel a kind of cold distance between myself and other pilots. No one seems to want to take time to talk before opening up with all guns.



Geee I wonder why...
Originally by: Althair Erin

Where does all this hate come from?

Forum spamming Goonies

Dionisius
Gallente
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.12.19 21:44:00 - [166]
 

Originally by: Avon
ITT a goon trys to adopt the community which his alliance mocked and shunned.

Serious business.


What makes yours so different?

Althair Erin
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.19 22:21:00 - [167]
 

Originally by: Illyria Ambri
Originally by: Althair Erin
In the short time that I have been a player in EVE and a member of Goonswarm, I've observed the incredible amount of hatred and rage that many players feel toward each other, and other corporations.

When I fly through space not owned by my Alliance or allies I feel a kind of cold distance between myself and other pilots. No one seems to want to take time to talk before opening up with all guns.



Geee I wonder why...
Originally by: Althair Erin

Where does all this hate come from?

Forum spamming Goonies


Thanks for your input! Could you please go into some more depth about your objections when posting to this thread? As I've said quite often, I'm really aiming to encourage deeper discussion between members of this forum.

You've said here that the response to perceiving something as spam is hatred. Isn't that pretty extreme? Hatred to me means something almost like pain, where your face gets flushed and your heart pounds and your hands clench and you just want to lash out at someone. Is that the typical response when you see something as spam?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't this clinging to the past hurtful for everyone involved? I've tried to be very clear that what is going on in this thread is a sincere effort to communicate. I would also have to say that overall the quality of posting recently has been excellent, very informative and thoughtful.

I would be happy to talk more about your issues with spam, but I hope you'll be open-minded enough to allow for the possibility of friendly conversation.

Ungdall
Minmatar
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.19 22:31:00 - [168]
 

Originally by: Montasque
Originally by: Jaabaa Prime
Back on topic.

It looks like OHGOD have now directed their forum warriors to move in a new direction.

So be it, but until it is seen that actions follow words in game, it will remain nothing but that, words.

I don't bear a grudge against OHGOD, they just show up red all the time in my overview Wink I can also imagine that many people in the community feel the same way.

You are trying to come to the community with a olive branch after trying to close the server down, how did think that everyone would react ? Welcome you with open arms and say "Hey, all is forgiven." ?

Time will tell if this is only a December stunt.


We as an alliance have made many mistakes.

One principle I want to explain really quick which is textbook evolutionary psychology is the idea of the least costly mistake. Because organisms have to make all their decisions based on imperfect information, they're always going to make mistakes. You always try to make the best percentage choice that you can, but you're always going to screw up at some point. At some point you're gonna be wrong, no matter how good your decision is.

Our alliance has been wrong to treat the average player of EvE wrong, it was a mistake. We deserve the right to try and show that we can be better, and pay it forward.



My dear, dear friend, you have put into words what I could not even dare to think, so my daring would have created a jumble of words and a mess of false cognitions. You have so perfectly stated that we, as Goons, have made mistakes and taken man missteps. Yet, should we not have the chance to repair our damage done? We are as podpeople as you are, and if you cut us, will not we not let off a shower of sparks and oddly colored fluid just as you?

"Give the wounded time to heal, and lend them a hand in aid, and they will make you strong." -Brosefs 20:15

Markus Chen
Caldari
Super Friends Club
Posted - 2007.12.20 03:22:00 - [169]
 

This is the most helpful thread I've read in CAOD so far.

I wish everyone else would spend more time coming up with good ideas instead of mocking each other. That doesn't get us anywhere. When I joined EVE I wanted to make a lot of new friends, and the goons have been really nice. I like the idea of crossing party lines so that we can pass bi-partisan measures that will make everything better for all of us.

Since the OP wants people to make suggestions, I think that we should create a new service division in GoonFleet that reaches out to the newbies of other corporations (and those who don't have one yet), helping to guide them in the big scary world that EVE can be. They could hang out in Empire and help answer questions, give advice on level one missions and career training. It'd be a great way to make new friends.


Magicbob
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.20 04:52:00 - [170]
 

Edited by: Magicbob on 20/12/2007 04:55:01
You know, I kind of agree with Markus. I have a few friends IRL (lol goonies don't have friends in real life) that are playing eve right now, and it was kind of :unsmith: mentoring them.

Also, it's always fun getting convoed by the guy who just blew me up and having a talk about ship fittings and whatnot. Or when, every once and a while, a random bob guy joins our teamspeak server and has a polite conversation with us.

UneFraiseDansUneChaise
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:25:00 - [171]
 

Originally by: Iasius
If you work in an office with its inane politics you need something like EVE to blow off steam 'in character'. So im up for smacktalk if its funny. But what is funny or not is subjective.

dakka dakka dakka lazors die ebil enemy YARRRR!!

Come into our teamspeak, brosef. We can talk about this great book by this guy named Knee-chay or something a hobo left on my doorstep.

Pesadel0
Minmatar
the muppets
RED.OverLord
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:49:00 - [172]
 

I will bite your lawl thread.

1-We don´t like you ,because you don´t like us.

2-If this is true ,mittani change the forums wairriors ,because this is as low as it gets,at least bob is evil to the end ,maybe you can maintain your stupiditty on forums like you always did.

3-Did you saw who respondead to the thread?Mainlly goons you know why?Because people (the average eveplayer) ,read the op and saw that he is a goon and say "another junk poast".

4-I say go down in flames with your stupidity/foffofo/serius bussines attitude to the end,don´t come here especting people to forget to forgive .As i said go until you disband like a alliance off pubbies and aparenttly stupid/offensive people to the end.
At least with BoB we always knew they were always riding like pretensius b****** like they are know and the still are doing it.

5-Laughing

UneFraiseDansUneChaise
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.20 10:56:00 - [173]
 

The weakling has much reason to be suspicious of his betters.

Dav Barsco
Gallente
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.20 11:04:00 - [174]
 

Why is there so much hate and doubt for me and my fellow Goons? Do people truly believe that good people don't exist in the Swarm?

Surely our postings in this very forum over the past few day prove otherwise?

Greetings of the season to one and all.

128th ABC123
Caldari
Lucky Clover Investments
Posted - 2007.12.20 12:46:00 - [175]
 

bull·**** - Vulgar Slang
n.
1. Foolish, deceitful, or boastful language.
2. Something worthless, deceptive, or insincere.
3. Insolent talk or behavior.
v. bull·**** also bull·shat (-sht) or bull·****·ted (-shtd), bull·****·ting, bull·****s
v.intr.
1. To speak foolishly or insolently.
2. To engage in idle conversation.
v.tr.
To attempt to mislead or deceive by talking nonsense.
adj.
Very angry; incensed.
interj.
Used to express extreme displeasure or exasperation.

ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words AntonymsNoun 1. bull**** - obscene words for unacceptable behavior; "I put up with a lot of bull**** from that jerk"; "what he said was mostly bull"
dog****, horse****, Irish bull, ****, crap, bull
bunkum, guff, hogwash, buncombe, rot, bunk - unacceptable behaviorShocked (especially ludicrously false statements)Shocked
dirty word, vulgarism, obscenity, smut, filth - an offensive or indecent word or phrase
Verb 1. bull**** - speak insincerely or without regard for facts or truths; "The politician was not well prepared for the debate and faked it"
talk through one's hat, bull, fake
dissemble, feign, pretend, sham, affect - make believe with the intent to deceive; "He feigned that he was ill"; "He shammed a headache"



Arvo Henderson
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:12:00 - [176]
 

Edited by: Arvo Henderson on 20/12/2007 13:13:23
Originally by: Dionisius

I'll just say this straight forward, if you think that i was trolling or atempting to sabotage you or your post then you are a very very stupid person.



I am not a native speaker either.
I am not old, just middle-aged.
I wasn't intending to sound patronizing.
The RP I practise doesn't consist in eluding interaction with non-RP entities.
I am not a celebrity.

No longer necessary See post below.

Now I will be nice and I tell you: Have a nice day!

Arvo Henderson
Gallente
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
Posted - 2007.12.20 13:12:00 - [177]
 

Edited by: Arvo Henderson on 20/12/2007 13:13:39
Originally by: Dionisius
Originally by: Althair Erin

My thoughts on the matter and my apologies to Arvo.




Apologies accepted.

Plutoinum
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:07:00 - [178]
 

Originally by: Markus Chen
This is the most helpful thread I've read in CAOD so far.

I wish everyone else would spend more time coming up with good ideas instead of mocking each other. That doesn't get us anywhere. When I joined EVE I wanted to make a lot of new friends, and the goons have been really nice. I like the idea of crossing party lines so that we can pass bi-partisan measures that will make everything better for all of us.

Since the OP wants people to make suggestions, I think that we should create a new service division in GoonFleet that reaches out to the newbies of other corporations (and those who don't have one yet), helping to guide them in the big scary world that EVE can be. They could hang out in Empire and help answer questions, give advice on level one missions and career training. It'd be a great way to make new friends.



Made me giggle. Even if you were serious. I wouldn't have giggled, if a non-goon had said that. I just don't expect something like that from a Goon, I mean that he also is serious about it.
Goonfleet has trained many of us to read their poasts in a certain way. Yes sorry, a serious goon posting about being nice makes me giggle hard.
It seems to me as reasonable as flying pigs at the moment.
Give me a bit time, then maybe I can believe in one or the other Goons trying to spread some love again. Very Happy

marakor
Gallente
Anti Lag Forum Smackers
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:17:00 - [179]
 

Originally by: Dav Barsco
Why is there so much hate and doubt for me and my fellow Goons? Do people truly believe that good people don't exist in the Swarm?

Surely our postings in this very forum over the past few day prove otherwise?

Greetings of the season to one and all.


yes its true 24 hours of ******ed "we are fluffy bunny popsting" has made all of eve stop thinking of goons as game breaking, ccp blackmailing, forum spamming, back stabbing, exploiting pieces of crap that are screwing up a great game.

If you wanna impress stfu on the forums with your ******ed drivel.

Kyrie Elaison
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.12.20 14:21:00 - [180]
 

Originally by: marakor
Originally by: Dav Barsco
Why is there so much hate and doubt for me and my fellow Goons? Do people truly believe that good people don't exist in the Swarm?

Surely our postings in this very forum over the past few day prove otherwise?

Greetings of the season to one and all.


yes its true 24 hours of ******ed "we are fluffy bunny popsting" has made all of eve stop thinking of goons as game breaking, ccp blackmailing, forum spamming, back stabbing, exploiting pieces of crap that are screwing up a great game.

If you wanna impress stfu on the forums with your ******ed drivel.


If you were a character from Greek mythology, you'd be a "special" Sisyphus. You keep pushing this boulder of hate and will never understand the pure comedy of it.

Oh, by the way, you and all the other morons need to look up the word blackmail. Your sheer ignorance is amusing, but, given the season, I'm trying to give something back and help you out of your abyss of mediocrity. Might want to look those words up, too.


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