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Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:20:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Kirjava on 13/12/2007 12:54:54
It was stated by CCP a while back that Invention of T2 Freighter BPC would be high, hinted at 100% due to the month long copy times. I haven't done it myself, but I have heard on these forums of people getting only 1 out of 5 jobs successful.
Before I or anyone else starts a job - is this intended, or a bug?

NOTE- Chronotis response is quoted here allready and linked to 3 times, if you just read the opening and quote its been done a few times allready - thankyou anyway though Cool

Tarminic
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:27:00 - [2]
 

Until you have made at least a few dozen attempts, it's hard to pin down exactly what the invention % is. Besides, do you think the people who have been very successful inventing them are on the forums complaining about it? Wink

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.12 21:34:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Kirjava on 12/12/2007 21:35:41
Not my question - Tar they are supposed to not fail to begin with, due to the ridiculous amount of time it gets to get a single run copy, plus the amount of datacores needed they were supposed to get a 100% success ratio.
My question is if CCP have introduced the possibility of failure or not on these, not what the % chances are.
Incidentaly, a few dozen attemps would be 36(350)M isk, not something I would be willing to splash out on just to check.

Siege
Minmatar
Siegecraft Bounty Hunting
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:04:00 - [4]
 

Considering that trinity has been out a week, I don't see how folks can be getting any results at all yet on a month long copy time. I believe that the "1 out of 5" numbers you refer to were from early on with the test server, before CCP altered the chances of success.

If the rates weren't corrected as they should have been, we won't know for a bit more than 3 weeks still.

Vim
Spiritus Draconis
Posted - 2007.12.12 22:09:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Vim on 12/12/2007 22:14:01
*cough* So you find it so unbelivable that some would upon hearing about t2 freighters being invented from t1 bpcs, like all new t2 gear ,copied a couple of bpcs up from their bpo's AHEAD of trinity and are now running invention jobs on thoose to get t2 freighter bpcs?
*facepalm*

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:07:00 - [6]
 

What Vim said, there have been several business popping up over a month ago dedicated to producing freighter BPC.
Given I have a few shares and a vested interest, I want to know if they are supposed to have a fail or not.
If they can fail, then BPC will drop in value, because if it's 100% guarenteed, then prices can be higher.

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:10:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Kirjava on 13/12/2007 10:15:47
Found this in another forum;

Originally by: CCP Chronotis
Jump freighters do not have a 100% chance of success, we only ever said it would have a high chance of success. If you were lead to interpret that as 100% then I apologize of course.


Ah god damnit Neutral
Thankyou though Chronotis for the swift response o7

Estephania
Independent Political Analysts
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:12:00 - [8]
 

Ppl are already running invention jobs for T2 freighters. I have no info if there were any successes but I heard about some failures, so, yes, those invention attempts can fail.

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 10:53:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Estephania
Ppl are already running invention jobs for T2 freighters. I have no info if there were any successes but I heard about some failures, so, yes, those invention attempts can fail.

Yes - this sucks Confused

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2007.12.13 11:27:00 - [10]
 

One out of five doesn't sound very promising at all, are these the new Logistics ships? How long were they in the doghouse before being made useful again?

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:03:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
One out of five doesn't sound very promising at all, are these the new Logistics ships? How long were they in the doghouse before being made useful again?

By logistics I assume you mean mean moving things around.
Yes - they are. I beleive the copy time for a single run BPC is over 4 weeks.

Zwotte
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:03:00 - [12]
 

Well i can't believe they make it a 100% success ratio. I saw a def mentioning they tweaked the outcome of frig and cruiser invention so will be easier to invent then larger ships.

And if they did make it 100% successratio i would be rather ****ed just for the t2 freighter invention i maxed my invention skills and bought the decryptor for the best success.

otherwise i would not have trained to the max and used the decryptor to get the best me/pe.

Also heard people negative results so i don't believe they made it 100%. Its a big expensive ship and a must have for every 0.0 alliance/corp so i hope its realy hard to invent.

Ciao,

Zwotte

Leishent
Caldari
Captured Souls Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:16:00 - [13]
 

Edited by: Leishent on 13/12/2007 12:17:00
Originally by: Kirjava
It was stated by CCP a while back that Invention of T2 Freighter BPC would be high, hinted at 100% due to the month long copy times. I haven't done it myself, but I have heard on these forums of people getting only 1 out of 5 jobs successful.
Before I or anyone else starts a job - is this intended, or a bug?


No. Proof can be found here

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:20:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Leishent

No. Proof can be found here

Alternatively, it can be seen here Wink

RaTTuS
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:23:00 - [15]
 

Copy time for a freighter is 27days @ a POS with copy implants
as the ME | PE level does not affect the output - people could have

bought freighter bpos and put them into copy mode as soon as they heard about them and would have a couple by now.

people who have had the bpos a while may have been making 1 run copies for ages - [ I know some people bought up copies as soon as they heard about JF]


but as they say you have to speculate to accumulate - so thowing a bunch of isk at the problem there may be some in production now...


Braaage
Ministry of Craft
Posted - 2007.12.13 12:53:00 - [16]
 

Edited by: Braaage on 13/12/2007 12:54:14
It was never stated it to be 100% but a "high probability" due to copy times.

DJ P
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:09:00 - [17]
 

Originally by: Kirjava
What Vim said, there have been several business popping up over a month ago dedicated to producing freighter BPC.
Given I have a few shares and a vested interest, I want to know if they are supposed to have a fail or not.
If they can fail, then BPC will drop in value, because if it's 100% guarenteed, then prices can be higher.


If you invest in companies like that expect money loss. If their only trading will be T2 freighters BPC, they will not be able to match the prices of a small company who produce/invent this, among another 100 different items at the same time.

None serious real life investor will do what you did expecting HUGE profits.


Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 13:19:00 - [18]
 

Good thing this is just a game then.
Point is, essentialy producers hand the cost onto the buyer, so with a 30% invention chance then (1/0.3)=3.3 BPC must be invented to produce one run. Costing 150M for the Freighter BPC, then 200M in datacores thats 350 each attempt, then 1.05B for the print. Factor in the materials at 4.5B plus the Freighter at 1 plus the other bits at 200, thats 6.75B before proffits, making these ships cost around 7.4B on the market taking proffits into account.
Tad off the topic, but the cost all compounds together and invention having the same odds as frigates to invent would increase prices by 700M.
Havent done invention myself so I don't know if those states 30% for frigates is pre or after decryptor.

Marcus Tedric
Gallente
Tedric Enterprises
Crimson Steel Empire
Posted - 2007.12.13 15:58:00 - [19]
 

Lots of mis-information here....

The Devs, as shown, did not say "100%" - they said "high chance". That could be also assumed to be using the 1.8x Decryptor.

You try to invent T2 BPCs from T1 BPCs - there is no 'Copy Mode' for BPOs. I had made those BPCs before the patch.

I was very lucky - I got 2 for 2.

I believe they are valuable, but not everyone agrees. With the investment in a Freighter BPO, just sub-28 days in an Adv Lab with 5% Implant, 64 of each Datacore, the cost of the POS, the possibility of failure....

And now CCP thinking of changing the Max runs - silly....

It costs a lot!

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:04:00 - [20]
 

Well, we know that they are high now, and that failures are expensive.
Anyone have a rough idea of what the ratio is or is supposed to be? Guessing around 60-80% by the responses so far on the forums Confused

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:09:00 - [21]
 

Originally by: Kirjava
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
One out of five doesn't sound very promising at all, are these the new Logistics ships? How long were they in the doghouse before being made useful again?

By logistics I assume you mean mean moving things around.
Yes - they are. I beleive the copy time for a single run BPC is over 4 weeks.


You assumed wrong, notice the capitalization of the L on Logistics, referring to the support cruisers and their longtime uselessness before they got fixed.

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:21:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Originally by: Kirjava
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
One out of five doesn't sound very promising at all, are these the new Logistics ships? How long were they in the doghouse before being made useful again?

By logistics I assume you mean mean moving things around.
Yes - they are. I beleive the copy time for a single run BPC is over 4 weeks.


You assumed wrong, notice the capitalization of the L on Logistics, referring to the support cruisers and their longtime uselessness before they got fixed.

Rereading I see I got the wrong meaning, thought you meant "used for logisitics" damn sorry Confused

Danton Marcellus
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Posted - 2007.12.13 16:26:00 - [23]
 

You're telling me about sorry, we have a division called Logistics and a subforum, so when I talk about Logistics people want to know, the ship, the pilots in there, the modules/minerals, on that forum? Not the most well thought out project on my part. ugh

Ferminant
Blue Republic
RvB - BLUE Republic
Posted - 2007.12.13 17:00:00 - [24]
 

If they had a 1 of 5 success rate.. I have to ask. What decryptor did they use? the +9?

I know of people who have had 3 of 5 successes with midrange decryptors.


And FYI, max runs on a freighter are 1. So a success with a +9 decryptor gets you... guess what.. 1 run.

Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.13 17:03:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Ferminant
If they had a 1 of 5 success rate.. I have to ask. What decryptor did they use? the +9?

I know of people who have had 3 of 5 successes with midrange decryptors.


And FYI, max runs on a freighter are 1. So a success with a +9 decryptor gets you... guess what.. 1 run.

Yes, but Chro said they are reviewing this in the thread in Starbase and Industry, theres a few links to it in this thread.

Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
Posted - 2007.12.13 23:20:00 - [26]
 

Edited by: Admiral Nova on 13/12/2007 23:21:14
The base chance is 30%. Since at the moment max runs is 1, you should be using the 1x 1.1x or 1.8x decryptors for better ME - better PE - better chance etc. (even with the 1.8x that makes it little better than 50/50)

Thomas Blackstar
Posted - 2007.12.14 05:20:00 - [27]
 

Does anyone know what the cost will be for buying a jump freighter on the market? yet?

Admiral Nova
Strike Team Nova
Posted - 2007.12.14 12:56:00 - [28]
 

Their build cost is approaching 8 billion isk :( this is more than DOUBLE what CCP had as their target. Expect no one to bother making them for less than 9-10bn. First ones will go for more, and myself after I offload the first one I'm not sure I will bother building them.

IMO they cost more just to build than most people will pay, so the margin won't be there and I think people will just not buy them until something is done to bring their cost under control. Confused


 

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