open All Channels
seplocked Market Discussions
blankseplocked Official EBANK Announcement: PHASE III
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: [1] 2

Author Topic

Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.12.10 17:55:00 - [1]
 

http://www.eve-bank.net/

G'day folks, on behalf of the EBANK Board of Directors I would like to announce two things.

The first; everyone who has an EBANK account now has a checking and savings account. All 290 of you crazy kids. Wink

The second; the Board of Directors has approved by majority vote a new cap for EBANK. That new cap is 75 billion isk.

Also, as a reminder, EBANK still has advertising space available. See our news items on the EBANK site for details.

Fitz VonHeise
Eye Bee Em
Stellar Defense Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.10 18:37:00 - [2]
 

Sounds like a winner!
I will be talking to you about advertizing soon.



Services I Provide:

Caldari Factional Standing Increase Alliance Creation The Thieves Of EvE My Links

Fader Bane
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.12.10 18:44:00 - [3]
 

EBANK ftw. great work by all those involved.

Hydraxian
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
Posted - 2007.12.10 20:04:00 - [4]
 

Seeing as ive just opened an account.. woot :P

Just wondering are there any limits on transfers between savings/checkings/ingame wallet accounts? I cant see anything in the FAQ but am wondering as i dont see any point in the checking account if you can use the savings for all.

Mr Horizontal
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.10 20:35:00 - [5]
 

Originally by: Hydraxian
Just wondering are there any limits on transfers between savings/checkings/ingame wallet accounts? I cant see anything in the FAQ but am wondering as i dont see any point in the checking account if you can use the savings for all.


Yes, there's a 500m maximum deposit in an interest bearing account... the interest you earn can push through this ceiling though. So you can put 500m in a Checking and a further 500m in a Savings account if you want to deposit 1b. Anything deposited over that can be held, but won't earn interest in the Sweep account.

Apple Blossom
Posted - 2007.12.10 22:50:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Hexxx
The second; the Board of Directors has approved by majority vote a new cap for EBANK. That new cap is 75 billion isk.


I may have missed an earlier announcement, but what plans are there for putting some security on this 75 billion? If I recall correctly you and Ricdic are the only ones with access to it, but you both have full access as it were (i.e. none of it is in BPOs locked down by other people, or held on other accounts). Is that still true? Does anyone else have access to any part of the assests?

Is it true to say that you or Ricdic could soon walk away with 75B if you chose? Don't take this as accusatory, but I think it's important for the future growth of Ebank that a) everyone is upfront about this; and b) some additional security is implemented either now or certainly when/if the cap goes higher.

Apple Blossom

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:01:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Apple Blossom
Is it true to say that you or Ricdic could soon walk away with 75B if you chose? Don't take this as accusatory, but I think it's important for the future growth of Ebank that a) everyone is upfront about this; and b) some additional security is implemented either now or certainly when/if the cap goes higher.

Well, to be blunt, I say that it is more secure than any other ipo's out there. Other than that, feel free to deposit or invest elsewhere. IMHO we don't need your money to keep doing well and if we haven't proven our trust and competency enough to this point... we don't need you either.

That is the end of the standard Shar response. Coming up next, the non-standard response.

I am holding 6 Billion of funds as part security part teller of Ebank. I've only actioned one Ebank withdrawal pending a code revision that I'm anxiously awaiting. My adding an alt to the EBANK corporation (EBANK Shar) has been delayed simply because I don't have an open alt slot. (I'm not a big multi account player!)

Does this mean that some shenanigans can not happen? Heck no, again, if you feel that we have not displayed the level of competency and trust needed... don't deposit.

Again, after months & months and books & books worth of text I just really can't be troubled to satisfy your concerns. I just don't have the patience for it.

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:16:00 - [8]
 

Regarding the future plans of EBANK, I'd like to ask the following question, considering there is nothing about this in the FAQ yet:

Is the 3% monthly maximum interest a fixed figure that has been set in stone at creation of the venture, or does the board of directors reserve the right to adjust this figure up or down in the future?

Note that this is not a "raise my interest!" whine (after all, I could just invest in something else then), this is merely me being interested in what we can expect in future phase expansions. I'm not too well versed in economics, but I figure that there has to be some point in time where EBANK has to stop expanding at this rather rapid rate and get some consolidation going, possibly accompanied by restructuring of the services offered to account holders. Or they may not. Who knows?

( I hope Hexxx does Wink )

Ezoran DuBlaidd
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:26:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Apple Blossom
Is it true to say that you or Ricdic could soon walk away with 75B if you chose? Don't take this as accusatory, but I think it's important for the future growth of Ebank that a) everyone is upfront about this; and b) some additional security is implemented either now or certainly when/if the cap goes higher.

Well, to be blunt, I say that it is more secure than any other ipo's out there. Other than that, feel free to deposit or invest elsewhere. IMHO we don't need your money to keep doing well and if we haven't proven our trust and competency enough to this point... we don't need you either.

That is the end of the standard Shar response. Coming up next, the non-standard response.

I am holding 6 Billion of funds as part security part teller of Ebank. I've only actioned one Ebank withdrawal pending a code revision that I'm anxiously awaiting. My adding an alt to the EBANK corporation (EBANK Shar) has been delayed simply because I don't have an open alt slot. (I'm not a big multi account player!)

Does this mean that some shenanigans can not happen? Heck no, again, if you feel that we have not displayed the level of competency and trust needed... don't deposit.

Again, after months & months and books & books worth of text I just really can't be troubled to satisfy your concerns. I just don't have the patience for it.





wow.





Kirjava
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:34:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Apple Blossom
reasonable concern

I just don't have the patience for it.


wow.



Wow, my thought aswell.
Shar, you can buy GTC for isk, at your stage in the market such a quantity of isk (1.2B/year or 200/month) should be pocket change to get an alt.
In response to Apple, yes they can scam and bar the hit to their reputation nothing stops them from doing so. I don't know about locking things down in BPO form works anymore, BPO saturation seems to be here and not a realistic alternative.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:47:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: Apple Blossom
reasonable concern
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I just don't have the patience for it.
Originally by: Ezoran DuBlaidd
wow.
At least I'm consistent. Meh.
Originally by: Kirjava
Shar, you can buy GTC for isk, at your stage in the market such a quantity of isk (1.2B/year or 200/month) should be pocket change to get an alt.
Two accounts is my limit. I've just been slow in untangling one for EBANK specific use. Meh, it's more personal choice than any actual limitation.

Gin Moon
Posted - 2007.12.10 23:49:00 - [12]
 

In my experience there are very few names that produce complete trust in this game. Ricdic is definately one of the most prominent and trustworthy names in all of Eve.
I trust Ricdic as much as I trust my closest corp members, and that's a lot!

May Shiko
Posted - 2007.12.11 00:40:00 - [13]
 

I had a huge post all written up.

What it comes down to, is it's the same question by the same people time and time again.

Ask yourself 'Would these people scam for an amount they could make in a few months?' If the answer is yes, then you've got a liable scammer who you really shouldn't be investing in according to your own standards. If the answer is no, then the people you're looking at dealing with, are more in lines with your personal judgements.

I do not, nor will I advocate allowing people to run around willy nilly with large sums of money, but stop the inane, repeated questioning.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:11:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Apple Blossom
I may have missed an earlier announcement, but what plans are there for putting some security on this 75 billion?


It is definetly a valid question. The idea of the board was that they wouldn't sign off on expansions unless they felt that these securities were well covered. However I can confirm the following.

* The tellers collectively hold around 10b isk.

* In the hit by a bus situation, the tellers have access to most customer securities in the EBANK corp wallet

* We have 2 new outlets for securities of which the remaining board members will secure (basically the first secured by 3 members, and the second secured by 4). Of those 2 outlets neither myself or Hexxx will have any form of access to these ventures, they are completely board managed. I can't explain what they are here but the board members can all verify that they exist.

In terms of security, there are 2 main aims:

1) To never let my wallet get to a point where people think I may become a liability (obviously I can scream black and blue that I am legit but that's also what every scammer has done too)

2) To strongly limit the exposure my disapearance (hit by a bus) would have on EBANK. We do have some protocols in place to limit damage in these events.

Thanks for your comments. Shar took it more as an attack whereas I personally would have asked the exact same questions had I been on the outside looking in.

Anyway, to finalise. If I walked away from EBANK today I might be able to net 20-25b. If Hexxx walked away he might be able to net 15-20b. Some other directors have both singular and shared security holdings but Hexxx and myself have the larges (due to director access within corp)

Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:11:00 - [15]
 

Edited by: Hexxx on 11/12/2007 01:24:10
Edited by: Hexxx on 11/12/2007 01:11:48
Originally by: Apple Blossom
Originally by: Hexxx
The second; the Board of Directors has approved by majority vote a new cap for EBANK. That new cap is 75 billion isk.




As Ricdic said...if you can't trust me or him...you're probably going to want to explore another investment.

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:16:00 - [16]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
I'm not too well versed in economics, but I figure that there has to be some point in time where EBANK has to stop expanding at this rather rapid rate and get some consolidation going, possibly accompanied by restructuring of the services offered to account holders. Or they may not. Who knows?

Your post brings up many issues so I'll try to answer this as succinctly as possible.

Firstly you express the "rapid rate" of expansion. I'm curious, where do you see this? One of the things we commonly here complaints about is that we didn't start off "large" enough to satisfy interest. We started small and have been slowly expanding our maximum capacity every couple of months or so.

Next-ly, as I know it interest rates are pretty much locked and if, and I stress if, there was any change to those there would be clear announcements to this effect and plenty of time for everyone to go ahead and spend 5 minutes moving their funds around and/or withdraw them. This leads into my final thought on this:

Lastly, alot of people seem to mistake this as some sort of shareholder relationship. Does your bank actually treat you like a shareholder may I ask? Nope, didn't think so.

I'm not saying that we don't listen, don't seek community input, and/or ignore what the community has to say. However, in equal measure, we don't hold ourselves accountable to you as if you were a shareholder. You are a depositor, you put money in, you take money out, you get some interest for the time in between.

Everything else we do is a courtesy that we are not required to give. I'm not saying that we are going to take that courtesy away mind you.

Just trying to clear the air and inject some reality here regarding the idea of restructuring and consolidating. That particular matter, imnsho, is really not a public interest matter of any kind. It's not like consolidating is going to make your "share" any bigger. It won't and so what would be the point?

Now "restructuring"... that is an interesting matter. Safe to say that internally EBANK is always under some form of review. The environment of Eve changes alot and each and every one of us working with EBANK know this fact very well.

We are all constantly bringing up things for review and/or revisitation. We are all, strangely enough, driven by a need for exactitude, efficiency, and efficacy. We are not all of us pefectionists, though we have one or two that are. We are not all of us too lazy, though I think I'm the laziest bastidge of us all. (I hate having to redo a task over and over and over ad infinitum ad nauseum. I'm sure it shows!)

One of the reasons I think we strive for revision is that there is no perfect solution to anything... especially when you are doing many things for the first time. So, we get things to as good as can be done and constantly back check to make sure it is "good enough" and hasn't become "could be better".

We have yet to reach any level of institutional complacency. Be it process or internal security or anything at this point. The one time I personally got complacent, Riethe stung Ricdic. And I almost never make the same mistake twice. (My wife however plays me like a flute so I can't say I don't ever repeat mistakes Twisted Evil)

So, hard and fast answers regarding Ebank? The FAQ is "good enough" imho and if it becomes "could be better" we'll adjust it and announce it wherever we can post about it. Ain't like we are shy about pimping EBANK, it's services, or anything EBANK related eh?

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:21:00 - [17]
 

hehe I am gonna get my butt kicked for saying too much by the directors. I can just smell it coming Laughing

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:27:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
hehe I am gonna get my butt kicked for saying too much by the directors. I can just smell it coming Laughing

Edited out the extraneous part.

Hexxx
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.12.11 01:50:00 - [19]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ricdic
hehe I am gonna get my butt kicked for saying too much by the directors. I can just smell it coming Laughing

Edited out the extraneous part.




Commence the butt kicking!

Astorothe
Aperture Science Industries
Posted - 2007.12.11 02:28:00 - [20]
 

This is great news - well done guys.

Mr Horizontal
Gallente
Posted - 2007.12.11 02:37:00 - [21]
 

As you all know by now, I develop EBANK with Hexxx, and although I don't have a vote on the board, I am privy to their discussions...

Originally by: Apple Blossom
Is it true to say that you or Ricdic could soon walk away with 75B if you chose? Don't take this as accusatory, but I think it's important for the future growth of Ebank that a) everyone is upfront about this; and b) some additional security is implemented either now or certainly when/if the cap goes higher.


One thing that's interesting about EBANK is that it chose from the outset to be transparent about it's business - when it has no reason to do so. This actually has had the knock-on effect that depositors think they are shareholders. EBANK's shareholders are it's board of directors and it only has to answer to them. But it chooses to be transparent - both to reach out and appear as trustworthy to you and because Hexxx wouldn't have it any other way anyway.

Now one of the reasons why Phase III took a fair amount of time to be approved by the board is they insisted EBANK tighten its belt even more. I'm not at liberty to divulge exactly what procedures have now been put in place, but Shar's comment of saying that EBANK is more secure than any existing IPO is not without merit.

One thing I can say about the belt tightening is I had to do divert energy from building new features to actually ensure EBANK had even more auditing in it, and ensure even more security and audit information is managed by the site. Without that code being released, Phase III wasn't going to go ahead.

You can also be sure as heck that the very questions you've asked re scammability have been argued ad nauseam every time a phase has been approved. So give credit that the arguments you've raised here have actually been discussed by the board over the course of the last 3 months.

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Is the 3% monthly maximum interest a fixed figure that has been set in stone at creation of the venture, or does the board of directors reserve the right to adjust this figure up or down in the future?


Like anything in EBANK, this can change pending Board approval. But you will have other investment options.

Originally by: Ishina Fel
I figure that there has to be some point in time where EBANK has to stop expanding at this rather rapid rate and get some consolidation going, possibly accompanied by restructuring of the services offered to account holders. Or they may not. Who knows?


1. EBANK is actually expanding at a very conservative pace - the reason for the phases after all are because of the board guaranteeing that EBANK can pay the interest. Remember that word: Guarantee.

2. Consolidation is already in place - EBANK is very, very well financed now. It has spread risk across a sufficient number of pies (exactly how many and what is secret) and those pies generate enough income to cover all of EBANK's costs and then some. Should any of those pies go splat, EBANK can also quite easily shrug off the loss. In fact you'd be quite amazed how resilient EBANK is.

3. Restructuring the current offering is not even on the agenda. Partly because there's no problem with it and partly because EBANK is probably about 30% 'complete' in terms of what it has planned to offer, so it's priority is to get these done first.

Angelic Black
Perkone
Posted - 2007.12.11 03:43:00 - [22]
 

I sent money to EBANK Ricdic earlier tonight and after waiting till the turn of the hour my account was created. I have another EBANK account with my alt, I have a split personality sorry, but this last one only offers a sweep account.

Are you converting all new accounts to full accounts with Phase III? I have changed my password, and I dumped over a quarter million isk in the account. Just wondering when I will be able to transfer to a savings account. Thanks.

BTW, I am using EBANK to hold isk for large purchases from the forums, here is a quick bump for Kara Rhane, my RL mate is doing business with her through EBANK.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.11 04:42:00 - [23]
 

Edited by: Ricdic on 11/12/2007 04:43:17
Hi Angelic the new services don't have full access by default. Normally Hexxx activates them at the end of the day (ie batch turn on). I believe this function has been added in a simple button to me so I will see if it works now Laughing



edit: Just done and it looks like it worked. Please confirm Cool

Apple Blossom
Posted - 2007.12.11 05:45:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: Ricdic
Originally by: Apple Blossom
I may have missed an earlier announcement, but what plans are there for putting some security on this 75 billion?

Answer.



Thanks, this answered my question.

As a quick aside to those who accused me of 'inane' questioning. This expansion represents a 150% increase in Ebank assests over Phase II and a 500% increase over Phase I (it was 15B if I recall correctly). I don't think it is inane to publicly challenge how that expansion is being managed.

I am not stupid. I realise that at some point you must just trust someone, but there are game mechanics available to reduce risk, and it was not clear to me to what extent they were being used as Ebank expanded. Thanks to Ricidic, now it is.

Anyway, no offence was intended and none taken (by me anyway!). So back to your regular programming.

Apple

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.11 06:01:00 - [25]
 

Originally by: Apple Blossom
I am not stupid. I realise that at some point you must just trust someone, but there are game mechanics available to reduce risk, and it was not clear to me to what extent they were being used as Ebank expanded.

Game mechanics regarding security is a constant debate internally and if you really look at things you'll find that every game mechanic has a loophole in it. This is why it becomes important to have people double checking each other, spreading liability around, and only working with people that have clear history of honest character. It's the plain truth.
Originally by: Apple Blossom
Anyway, no offence was intended and none taken (by me anyway!). So back to your regular programming.

I did not mean to offend myself. I was going for self parody in the first paragraph, honest answers from what I factually knew in the second, and finally the general public answer for those who like to imply malfeasance or pending malfeasance on our part.

>shrugs<

Apple Blossom
Posted - 2007.12.11 06:55:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Shar Tegral
Game mechanics regarding security is a constant debate internally and if you really look at things you'll find that every game mechanic has a loophole in it. This is why it becomes important to have people double checking each other, spreading liability around, and only working with people that have clear history of honest character. It's the plain truth.


As I see it, spreading liability is the only way to enforce security. I know from your previous posts that you don't think that 'everyone has their price', and I'll buy that, but you must also concede that some people do have their price.

From Ricdic's post, it seems that you and the Directors agree with this and steps have been taken to reduce the access any one individual has to the main 'pot of gold'. This is good.

My initial question was really an attempt to wheedle out what those steps have actually been. The EBank terms and conditions, while generally excellent, are a little thin on the subject.

Apple

LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
Posted - 2007.12.11 07:22:00 - [27]
 

This thread is made of alot of win.

Ricdic
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.11 07:42:00 - [28]
 

Yeh security is a big issue and frankly I don't want people to blindly accept what we are doing. I have spent over a year in these forums myself trying to advocate security and disclosure so it would be hypocritical of me to deny others the chance to question my/EBANK ventures. I always welcome questioning especially when done in an educated fashion (someone who asks questions after reading FAQ's, T&C's etc).

We can suggest that EBANK have no reason to give any form of public disclosure but that also occured with EIB. No-one ever knew how much cash Cally had access too, where it was being utilised etc. The Board of Director's instills confidence in the board themselves and those who trust them in-game but to someone on the outside they still have a right to ask questions pertaining to security.

Our responses are being limited a little due to internal issues but we try to give as much info as we can. Hell, I wouldn't be against a trusted external (non-affilated) auditor coming in to audit the setup as a whole. Hexxx is a great auditor and basically a full time one but some may feel he is biased due to his coding affiliations within EBANK Cool

Ishina Fel
Caldari
Terra Incognita
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.12.11 08:39:00 - [29]
 

Erm, Shar, whatever did I do to you? ugh

Shar Tegral
Posted - 2007.12.11 08:57:00 - [30]
 

Originally by: Ishina Fel
Erm, Shar, whatever did I do to you? ugh
Nothing at all.

Don't take a long winded response, or even a negative sounding one, as something specific to you. Much like any public relations / press meeting situation forums where discussion of Ebank comes up ... some responses are weighted not to answer a specific individual with specific questions but to answer the wider questions raised as thoroughly as might be needed to the wider audience(s) as well.

It is an attempt to avoid all the repetitive q&a that can happen not to mention the occasional trolling that implies we would have answered more thoroughly and/or answered more expansively in the first place if we had nothing to hide.

Thus. while one may hate spin control and spin doctors one must abide by the rules of said tactics or individuals or always remain hostage to them.


Pages: [1] 2

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only