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Suki Kamir
Posted - 2007.12.08 18:32:00 - [1]
 

Edited by: Suki Kamir on 08/12/2007 18:36:16
Thought it would be useful to compile a list of the problems I have come across so far with the new Trinity Client:

1. Random Crashes - These are very annoying and seem totally random. The client will just close for no apparent reason in the middle of doing something. Seems to happen more often when switching to a new area (station, gate etc.) but has also happened at other times. This problem needs a priority fix because when this happens in a fight it is infuriating.

2. Bad graphics - There was already a problem with graphics corrupting in the fitting screen and this has now extended to corrupt graphics in space. This seems to be time related, as in the longer the game has been running the worse it gets. It can be very problematic when you are in a fight but you can't see the things you are fighting because the graphics have corrupted leaving you surrounded on all sides with mess (like being on the inside of a 3D cube where all the walls of the cube have been assaulted by Jackson Pollock).

3. Targeted Objects Positioning - These are now all left justified at the top left corner of the screen and are impossible to move. This is a huge problem because you can't see the range info of the object due to the Solar System Info overlay. Again, I feel this needs a priority fix.

4. Item Windows - Items windows, cargoholds, containers etc. (anything which can hold something else) are behaving oddly. Items are not appearing until you either scroll down or sort the window and even then sometimes the items are appearing in a single long column just 1 item wide. Currently can only be fixed by closing the window and re-opening.

5. Window Positions - It is great that we can now split our overview into a tabbed window but why can't the windows tab positions be remembered? Every time I undock my overview window has moved to the right most tab despite me keep moving it to the left most tab. Another pet hate of mine is not having the option to close certain windows such as Local Chat (please I am in a corp, I have limited screen real estate, I don't want Local Chat open) also the targeted object info from the overview windows cannot be closed either, so I always have a completely empty window in my Overview cluster.

6. Memory Leak - It definitely seems like there is a memory leak, the memory footprint of the game is increasing significantly the longer the game is running.

7. Mouse Movement - When the mouse is moved the FPS drops. This has been reported by several people and I have also experienced it, although it could be this is down to Cedega. I don't know anything about the I/O asynch which Wine implemented recently but from the name, I would assume (hopefully logically) that it improves I/O handling. Since the mouse is an I/O piece of hardware it could be this new I/O fix in wine (which is yet to make it into Cedega afaik) could help the mouse issue messing with FPS. For me it takes about 20fps from me when I move the mouse, others have reported much worse.

I don't think I have come across any other issues but if I remember or find any I will update the post. At the moment, the Trinity client is almost unplayable with the random crashes and other issues outlined above it simply becomes too frustrating. The previous Linux client for Revelations never crashed once for me and out of all the issues listed for the Trinity client, the only one that existed (at least in my own experience) in the Revelations client was the graphics corruption. Hopefully these problems can be fixed very quickly because otherwise I am paying for a game which I can't play (I am paying to be a live beta tester???) and there is only so much of that I can take before I cancel my account. I can't afford to just give money away to CCP for letting me Beta Test their software (which is certainly how Trinity feels at the moment).

Suki

Adel Sorra
Posted - 2007.12.08 19:31:00 - [2]
 

1. didnt have exactly that, on time my client just went black in windowed mode, had to kill him. this may be a complete crash if not windowed
2. graphics are fine for me, exept that caldary gate wich is still white
3. targeting is fine for me
4. didn't occure to me
5.a. didnt new they can be tabbed now, have to test
5.b. local chat cant be closed, but minimised. this is no change. the 'X' doesnt appear anymore for windows that cant be closed, but it doesn't make any difference in behavior
6. didn't notice, didn't look
7. didn't notice, didn't look. the I/O stuff is about client server communication afaik

and yes, you are paying for a beta, but before you where on you're own (eg. wait untily mighty elfe got it fixed). just give them some time

theres another bug, ship and module icons are corrupt. either they are blank with a big exclanation mark (you know, the LOUD sign) or the ships are shown but background is messed up, some kind of not black black, if that makes sense

Lira Reib
Posted - 2007.12.08 20:32:00 - [3]
 

I have some of those problems but not others. My biggest problem right now is random crashes and the fact that when it does crash, the wineserver doesn't die - which makes it hard to log back in quickly. Hope it never goes out when something important is happening. :p

It's nice that they decided to make a Linux client, and we can't expect it to work perfectly first thing -- especially since with Linux everybody's experience is different, based on their hardware, distribution, etc. Trinity was a big release rather than just a client refresh, so hopefully the client will be fairly stable over the next few years and issues will be resolved.

That said, this is not release quality software. It, ah, does not appear to have been tested thoroughly.

farfrael
FP Enterprise
Posted - 2007.12.08 22:02:00 - [4]
 

6. seems to be almost entirely related to eve voice
eve voice is enabled by default. go to the settings menu ingame (esc) and deselect it. should help tremendously

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2007.12.08 23:42:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Sevarus James on 08/12/2007 23:42:48
Biggest issue here is the random crashing. No rhyme nor reason to it.
Icons messed up.
window positions not remember where they're supposed to be. (seems the windows client has this to an extent as well.)
jukebox always turns itself back on every time the client starts. (client doesn't remember that it was turned off.)

some of the GFX corruption can be fixed by changed eve's gfx to 24bit with 8 rather than the straight 24bit, but there are still some strange artifacts happening.

Memory leaking is there with or without eve voice.

Oh yeah, RANDOM CRASHING. This one is the killer. Not so bad if you have no wardecs and live in high sec I suppose, but try dealing with it living in 0.0 or lowsec. Not good.

Lastly, copy/paste out of game STILL ain't working. Evil or Very Mad

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2007.12.11 10:50:00 - [6]
 

Response (will get TG to respond as well).

1) We have some fixes that should fix most of these, due in the next patch.
2) Again some fixes ready. Should be deployed next patch.
3) Will look into this. You should be able to move the 'anchor' point for your locked target position.
4) Have not seen this myself, can please file a bug report with your system configuration so that we can investigate it.
5) They should be remembered. Again please bug report this with configuration info so we can look into it.
6) I have not seen this on my Fedora install nor on Windows.
7) Will poke TG and get them to look into this.

Jukebox Issue) Please defect so we can get it resolved.
Icons) Hopefully the graphics fix should deal with this.
Copy Paste) Will prod TG about this.

UberL0rd
Minmatar
Comply Or Die
G00DFELLAS
Posted - 2007.12.11 11:13:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Suki Kamir

2. Bad graphics - There was already a problem with graphics corrupting in the fitting screen and this has now extended to corrupt graphics in space. This seems to be time related, as in the longer the game has been running the worse it gets. It can be very problematic when you are in a fight but you can't see the things you are fighting because the graphics have corrupted leaving you surrounded on all sides with mess (like being on the inside of a 3D cube where all the walls of the cube have been assaulted by Jackson Pollock).


I see this myself, and I find it very very interesting as it now corrupts in the same way that WINE did/does (cedega builds didn't used to do this). So I find myself asking are TG in a LGPL violation here or did they really fix an issue that demonstrates a bug in EVE (maybe invalid generation of PNG images?) the same way WINE does without using WINE source code?

Sevarus James
Minmatar
Meridian Dynamics
Posted - 2007.12.11 11:43:00 - [8]
 

#1. Random crashes. Is currently keeping me from ANY heavy activities in EVE. Broke out the old XP hard disk I have in a desk drawer and added it to my system so I wouldn't leave my corp mates during combat operations. -feel dirty, but hey.

2. bad graphics. until I changed to 24bit with 8 bit alpha I would have artifacts and even text drawing on reflective or semi-transparent surfaces. Pretty wild to fly the Prowler and see corp chat where the 'wings' are. 8bit seemed to clear most of this up, but occasionally even with that setting warp effects will be corrupted, block, or even occasionally there will be a warp tunnel full of text. Shocked

#3 Targeted objects.
I haven't seen this one. I'm wondering if its because I'm running the cedega overlay with fps memory usage and it defaults to that spot? My targeting has been normal with no changes.


#4 Item windows....oh gods yes. This one is frackin' annoying. Even in corp/alliance/local chat you will sometimes get a scroll bar with nothing seen until you scroll up or down a bit, and then the faces will show up. (As well as containers, corp hangars, etc.)

#5 window positions. Ditto on the problem.
This also applies session to session. If I log out, the windows never remember where they were (in addition to undock/dock. This actually might be tied to my little jukebox issue, as it stays off until I relog...and then its back playing, and most of my windows have magically repositioned themselves a bit...or a lot. Local always (no matter where its pinned) returns to my tabbed chats.

#6. Slow leak seen here. A session will generally start at about 360meg +/- a bit, and creep up. More than two/hours hours and my ram usage has slid over a gig. Of course this isn't currently as evil an issue as since 2nd day post patch, I've yet to see the linux client run for more than 30 minutes between crashes.


#7. Mouse movement. This is an oddball. We have seen complaints regarding mouse fps reduction in the tech forum and now here for more than a year (wine AND cedega), but its been damn hard to pin anything down, as one user may have what sounds/describes like a duplicate system/mouse to the user with issues and NOT have the problem.
I will say that prior to the Trinity patch there was a noticeble drop (but not heavy or dehibilitating) and at least on my system with an MX evolution, I no longer see that one.

Regardless, this is just forum feedback. I will bug report the few things in here that haven't been sent to 'defect-land'.


Postlatta Mouseanon
Caldari
State War Academy
Posted - 2007.12.11 19:01:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: Suki Kamir
Edited by: Suki Kamir on 08/12/2007 18:36:16
Thought it would be useful to compile a list of the problems I have come across so far with the new Trinity Client:

1. Random Crashes - These are very annoying and seem totally random. The client will just close for no apparent reason in the middle of doing something. Seems to happen more often when switching to a new area (station, gate etc.) but has also happened at other times. This problem needs a priority fix because when this happens in a fight it is infuriating.

2. Bad graphics - There was already a problem with graphics corrupting in the fitting screen and this has now extended to corrupt graphics in space. This seems to be time related, as in the longer the game has been running the worse it gets. It can be very problematic when you are in a fight but you can't see the things you are fighting because the graphics have corrupted leaving you surrounded on all sides with mess (like being on the inside of a 3D cube where all the walls of the cube have been assaulted by Jackson Pollock).

4. Item Windows - Items windows, cargoholds, containers etc. (anything which can hold something else) are behaving oddly. Items are not appearing until you either scroll down or sort the window and even then sometimes the items are appearing in a single long column just 1 item wide. Currently can only be fixed by closing the window and re-opening.

5. Window Positions - It is great that we can now split our overview into a tabbed window but why can't the windows tab positions be remembered? Every time I undock my overview window has moved to the right most tab despite me keep moving it to the left most tab. Another pet hate of mine is not having the option to close certain windows such as Local Chat (please I am in a corp, I have limited screen real estate, I don't want Local Chat open) also the targeted object info from the overview windows cannot be closed either, so I always have a completely empty window in my Overview cluster.

Suki


The above are what I have experienced.

Regarding the memory leak, I'm not sure that is legit because the game enlarges it's cache as time goes on, as well as Linux itself caching disk reads for fast access. In some cases (depending on config) Linux will also cache disk writes.


Muscaat
EVE Markets
Posted - 2007.12.12 08:23:00 - [10]
 

Originally by: Sevarus James
#4 Item windows....oh gods yes. This one is frackin' annoying. Even in corp/alliance/local chat you will sometimes get a scroll bar with nothing seen until you scroll up or down a bit, and then the faces will show up. (As well as containers, corp hangars, etc.)

This isn't just a Linux bug, the Windows client does the same. Sad

Suki Kamir
Posted - 2007.12.12 17:53:00 - [11]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Response (will get TG to respond as well).

1) We have some fixes that should fix most of these, due in the next patch.
2) Again some fixes ready. Should be deployed next patch.
3) Will look into this. You should be able to move the 'anchor' point for your locked target position.
4) Have not seen this myself, can please file a bug report with your system configuration so that we can investigate it.
5) They should be remembered. Again please bug report this with configuration info so we can look into it.
6) I have not seen this on my Fedora install nor on Windows.
7) Will poke TG and get them to look into this.

Jukebox Issue) Please defect so we can get it resolved.
Icons) Hopefully the graphics fix should deal with this.
Copy Paste) Will prod TG about this.



Thanks for the reply, I will file the appropriate bug reports at the first opportunity. One more question though, is there an ETA on the next patch? I can't seem to find any future deployment dates in the Patch section of this site.

Suki

NightKhaos
Gallente
Relative Quantum Limited
Posted - 2007.12.16 15:43:00 - [12]
 

Edited by: NightKhaos on 16/12/2007 19:27:23
I have also noticed a problem with icon pictures. They seem to be all scrambled for certain items, mostly ships.Also as for the random crashes I seem to have noticed a reduction in this since I updated to kernel 2.6.23. Then again I haven't played for a very long time on the new kernel, so maybe I have just been lucky.

Update: It appears my good luck just ran out, EVE just crashed.

Gilbert T
Gallente
Gladiators of Rage
Posted - 2007.12.18 14:50:00 - [13]
 

Random Crashes: check

Bad Graphics: I get this on my twinview setup, but not on my notebook that I have seen yet. It was the same with revalations 2 client but not as bad, exactly as you said.

Targeted Objects Position: mine come up in upper right hand corner right justified, just left of the overview/etc, so I haven't had this problem.

Item Windows: I've seen this, but not very often. Only slightly annoying to me.

Window Positions: Never had that problem, but I didn't even realize we could make the overview tabbed now.

Memory leak: I never monitored the memory usage to notice this, but I don't doubt it. A lot of games seem to be very leaky. It's obvious that the game keeps certain things in memory that will cause the footprint to grow constantly, though. A few I've noticed: character pics, chat buffer, item models and attributes. I would guess that mainly only textures are all completely loaded on startup, but it's possible that these are loaded on session change and kept in a growing cache as well. I just figured that's something to keep in mind when watching memory usage.

Mouse movement: I never really noticed this, unless you're talking about rotating the view with the mouse or something. I get some lag sometimes when I do that. My FPS is generally pretty good all the time, except that it lags a ton when I open pretty much any kind of new window.


Somewhat off-topic response:

The client is slightly functional at best. If there was an actual linux native client instead of a patched cedega wrapper running a patched Eve Windows client, things would surely be better. The games I run that come in Linux native versions are all far superior to their Windows versions both in terms of stability and performance (according to my friends who dual boot and run the same games under both operating systems). I wonder if CCP and/or Transgaming will ever go that route in the future or if the patched to death WinEve+Cedega/Cider is what we will always have.

BTW, most beta software is a little more developed than this, Suki. However, our client is running through Cedega which was based on an early version of Wine, and AFAIK neither Cedega nor Wine have ever claimed to have reached the beta stage in their development.

That said, I myself do not mind paying for the game and testing the client for free ATM, providing that I can expect an immediate response to any bug reports I submit in the future.

I saw a lot of comments like this from the last upgrade and it seemed like they had it fixed within a couple of weeks, so I'm going to try to be optimistic and hopefully today's patch will fix everything important at least. :)

Becka Call
Posted - 2007.12.20 04:07:00 - [14]
 

It really is too bad that they didn't take the new graphics content engine as an oportunity to use a 3D graphics standard, i.e. opengl instead of the direct X9c. If they had they quite easily could have had native ports to mac and linux. Now I do understand that using opengl has its own tradeoffs. But would have been Nice(tm)Smile


 

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