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blankseplocked Compensation for Boot.ini errors!!!
 
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Kurmugeon
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:27:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Takahashi Clutch
Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:31
Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:09
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

What a stupid effin post. The EULA says *nothing* about crippling the OS by deleting Microsoft - another company's - system files.


actually it does, see bold

D. Software Updates
CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.

reading comprehension ftw




Wow, reading this thread is just plain painful. Their is absolutly no place in the EULA that states you give CCP permission to alter windows system files that do not pertain to EVE. It's just that simple. Rolling Eyes

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:28:00 - [62]
 

Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Jaig Maldara
To those who think this is easy for an end user to fix, STFU.
This.
Well...technically it is easy. All you have to do is copy or create a three line text file. The problem is that a lot of users don't have a boot disc. I found myself in the same position much to my surprise. I had several boot CDs but none got me to a recovery prompt. None of my machines have floppy drives so no way to create a bootable disc.

Eventually I burnt a copy of Ubuntu and used that to copy the boot.ini from another machine.

So..yeah it's an easy fix. But only if you have the right tools.

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:29:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: Dr Paithos
Originally by: Hooch Flux
Originally by: Dr Paithos
Originally by: Hooch Flux

Still understood my meaning though, yes?


Not really.

Is it that it's their fault for doing any work whatsoever on a computer that has any games whatsoever on it?

That doesn't fit with what 99% of people do at home, and it wouldn't stand up in court.


Frankly, yes it is, they do not have to have games on the same PC! Games are not required, work on the other hand is!


So do you have any work, or any personal business documents on your home PC? You don't use it for even internet banking, writing letters to companies, and so on? And you are an adult, right?


Yes, and I back everything up, I also wait at least 24-48 hours after a patch comes out to see if there are any errors reported so I know what to expect.

Kira Direll
Niflhel
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:29:00 - [64]
 

so you call nvidia (or asus) if their new board/graka driver messup in your system32 dir and fsck windows up? for compensation that is?
or microsofts new service pack destroys your windows you call them for compensation?

really, you seriously need to calm down, get a grip and a cup of tea and step away from the computer a bit. its getting ridiculous.

Rolling Eyes

BurningJr
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:31:00 - [65]
 

Yah "One Free Complete to 5 train for all!!!!"Laughing

Araxmas
The Blue Dagger Mercenery Agency
Black Core Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:31:00 - [66]
 

Loads of times CCP re-imburse play times during **** ups.
Think it was RMR or Cold War patch which took longer than expected and we got a day back for it, or was some minor patch cant remember.
Also one time the server crashed for about 5 hours...we got a days extra play.
So I think such a large problem as this will get at least some day time added for you guys.
Oh and yeah the fanboy "Your an idiot if you don't know how to fix the boot.ini" rubbish or the "phone tech support" that is being posted is just un-belivable, I think you should admit this was quite a severe problem, stop being elitist ****s.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:31:00 - [67]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 06/12/2007 21:32:41
Originally by: Modrak Vseth
Do NONE of you people have any backups or restore points saved? If it's taking 4 or 5 hours for you to fix this then you were setting yourself up for a massive failure eventually anyway.
How does either of those help if you can't boot your computer?

I have three computers in my house. I've been developing software for over 15 years. I'm an ex-data recovery engineer (and most of my software development was data recovery tools). Fixing a deleted boot.ini is childs play...except that it turns out I don't have a Windows boot disc. If I had then Ffs I could've edited the NTFS bitmap file and undeleted boot.ini in half a minute. Quicker and easier than copying it.

But I couldn't boot that machine to Windows. I eventually burnt a copy of Ubuntu and used that but for a lot of people that's way beyond their ability and/or far too scary.

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:31:00 - [68]
 

Edited by: Elenath on 06/12/2007 21:31:49
Originally by: Takahashi Clutch
Originally by: Elenath

Now, stop wasting your employer's bandwidth, fanboi. How about getting some work done instead of getting paid for browsing the web?


plenty of bandwidth on our OC12

anyway, i am working

now, stop being so angry

Rolling Eyes




Who's angry? I'm not. I'm just shocked that someone would be so incredibly stupid as to actually try to defend the huge mistake CCP has made by quoting the EULA as defense or explanation for such an easily avoidable (and horribly critical) mistake.

The fact that you even went to the trouble of trying to explain this or defend CCP doesn't at all make me angry - it's just totally incomprhensible.

Nice to see you backpeddling though. Go see my restaurant analogy.

Jolnas Arbiter
Esoteric Cosmos
Burning Spear.
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:33:00 - [69]
 

Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:41:29
Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:37:19
Originally by: vextorious
Edited by: vextorious on 06/12/2007 20:13:08
In the form of free game time or maybe refunds or possibly isk payouts.


ISK will only cause inflation

The HUGE negative publicity they will get from this will be punishment enough.

I think 60 days game time on average would at least be equal but they'd still bite the publicity bullet.

When my local magazine does the odd article on "the game that only a few people play but is a real gem" they are very likely to do one on this. Which will scare a lot of people off. Methinks this will also respark the developer misconduct discussion as well.

BTW the law outside US is... the contract doesn't matter much its the general gist of things. Also you can't hide anything nasty in the fine print.

There also things like you can't accept absolutely no responsbility if you are charging people money. So while you can't use the "eve was taking up space on my hdd which caused the US stock market to crash excuse" I have a feeling "it corrupted my windows install requiring a full repair.

ALSO PEOPLE WHO BUY PREBUILT COMPUTERS DON'T GET AN OS BOOT DISK. That means they WILL have to get someone to come out regardless of how computer literate they are.

There are a lot of computer noobs here who were probably like "oh well I better upgrade for trinity so lets buy the new alienware computer" well they just got really burned.

Siresa Talesi
Center for Advanced Studies
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:35:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Takahashi Clutch
Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:31
Edited by: Takahashi Clutch on 06/12/2007 21:02:09
Originally by: SheriffFruitfly

What a stupid effin post. The EULA says *nothing* about crippling the OS by deleting Microsoft - another company's - system files.


actually it does, see bold

D. Software Updates
CCP may from time to time update or otherwise modify the Software electronically. You hereby grant CCP permission to: (i) extract hardware system profile data from your computer; (ii) extract information from your computer's file directories pertaining to the Game and your ability to access the System; (iii) download to your computer content and Game files and any data related to the operation of the Game. The foregoing applies to any computer from which you log into the System using your Account.

reading comprehension ftw




Em, no it doesn't. It says you agree to allow them to download files to your computer, it says nothing about removing files from that computer, especially files that they did not put there in the first place. It only gives permission for the downloading of files "related to the operation of the Game." Please explain in detail how you came to the mistaken conclusion that this means users give CCP permission to alter or remove critical operating system files which have nothing whatsoever to do with their game software?

Why is it that those who are severely lacking in reading comprehension are always making the "reading comprehension ftw" statement?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:36:00 - [71]
 

Originally by: Araxmas
Loads of times CCP re-imburse play times during **** ups.
Think it was RMR or Cold War patch which took longer than expected and we got a day back for it, or was some minor patch cant remember.
Also one time the server crashed for about 5 hours...we got a days extra play.
So I think such a large problem as this will get at least some day time added for you guys.


This is reasonable!

Dr Paithos
Minmatar
Republic Deep Space Institute
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:37:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Andrue
Originally by: Modrak Vseth
Do NONE of you people have any backups or restore points saved? If it's taking 4 or 5 hours for you to fix this then you were setting yourself up for a massive failure eventually anyway.
How does either of those help if you can't boot your computer?

I have three computers in my house. I've been developing software for over 15 years. I'm an ex-data recovery engineer (and most of my software development was data recovery tools). Fixing a deleted boot.ini is childs play...except that it turns out I don't have a Windows boot disc. I thought that the Mesh CD was going to do it but it was one of those half-arsed Windows setup discs that doesn't give access to the command line.

I eventually burnt a copy of Ubuntu and used that but for a lot of people that's way beyond their ability and/or far too scary.


That's why both our comps have floppy drives and boot disks - but I'm not going to flame people for not having them. Not sure if I could find the boot disk for this computer either. That's just how life is.

If someone's obsessive enough to cover every angle, well done, have a cookie, but don't spend all your saved free time attacking people who aren't. That might make people think you're unbalanced in some way ahaha

The fact is that I agree with Dark Shikari (Shocked) that this is non-trivial to fix.

vextorious
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:38:00 - [73]
 

As all you regular forum reader already know, there is a small contingent of users who do nothing but bash anyone that disagrees with CCP actions or policies.

This phenomenon is not limited to the eve forums, but rears is ugly head in just about every forum on the internet.

BUT! If you can sort through the mess, this thread has numerious high quality posts making good arguments for both sides. I suggest your read it through.

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:39:00 - [74]
 

I doubt very much CCP will give 1 month to all of usLaughing
that's 8.5% of their total revenueShocked

Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:40:00 - [75]
 

The thing is, CCP isn't required to do **** all, it's all in the EULA, the thing you randomly clicked 'i accept' on during install.

Quote:

# NO WARRANTIES
The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.



this one alone states that they are not liable for any issues you have.. and if that fails:

Quote:

# DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES
In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.



and even if you want to ignore that and still go ahead with your claims:

Quote:

# INDEMNITY
You shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless CCP and its affiliates, licensors and suppliers, and their respective employees, contractors, officers and directors, from any and all claims, loss, damages and demands, including reasonable attorneys' fees, arising out of: (i) your use or misuse of the Software; (ii) your access to the System; (iii) any activities conducted through your Account (whether by you or another person); and (iv) your playing of the Game.



now some may say 'but i live in england!' or 'i am an american!'

Quote:

# GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM
The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.

The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavík, Iceland, (Hérađsdómur Reykjavíkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavík, Iceland.



that part sais that by agreeing to it, you also agree that any legal issue that may arrive will be dealt with in ICELAND.

next time you play a game, READ the EULA.


Red Gabba
Minmatar
R E D E M P T I O N
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:41:00 - [76]
 

best place to show off new sig?

Elenath
Gallente
Bluebird Capital Management
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:42:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: Xaroth Brook
garbage


Perhaps you should read the entire thread before making a fool of yourself?

Just an idea.

Fswd
Gallente
Psychotic Sea Monkeys
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:42:00 - [78]
 

Originally by: Treher
Edited by: Treher on 06/12/2007 20:46:43
How about all of you nerdy fanboys tell me how much you paid to have your car fixed or your furnace repaired. I'm sure that you will find that no technician will charge based on actual time to fix something, it's always rounded up to the nearest hour.

This only proves that you know nothing about the service industry and compensation.


The same nerdy fanbois are able to fix those problems just fine.

Abbadon
Caldari
Pukin' Dogs
D0GMA
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:43:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: An Anarchyyt
If you go to geek squad or ANYWHERE to have this "fixed", I will personally come to your house, and laugh at you.


Quotin' dis Very Happy

Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:43:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Elenath
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
garbage


Perhaps you should read the entire thread before making a fool of yourself?

Just an idea.


I have, and I've even asked our company's legal advisor..

now the question.. have you?

Hooch Flux
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:43:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Red Gabba
best place to show off new sig?


Laughing

Jolnas Arbiter
Esoteric Cosmos
Burning Spear.
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:43:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:43:52
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
The thing is, CCP isn't required to do **** all, it's all in the EULA, the thing you randomly clicked 'i accept' on during install.[/Quote]

Guess what smartass just because you say something in a contract does not mean that it is the word of law in a lot of countries. As I said above... you can't hide stuff in the fine print (not that I'm suggesting that did happen) and you also can't claim no responsibility for something that you charge for.

Takahashi Clutch
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:44:00 - [83]
 

i fail at projecting sarcasm across the internet, perhaps i should just stop.

i'm just sad to have come back to the game after a year and a half retirement to see that the forums are still filled with 100s of whiny people.




Buyerr
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:44:00 - [84]
 

Originally by: vextorious
Edited by: vextorious on 06/12/2007 21:39:40
Edited by: vextorious on 06/12/2007 20:13:08

Make this right CCP. Act fast to save your reputation...




hehe, not exactly their strong side now is it :P :D hehe

no **** this actually made me laugh real hard hehehehehe
thanks dude, have been a ****ty day without a smile until now ^^

fasfhadtrv
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:44:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: Takahashi Clutch
i fail at projecting sarcasm across the internet, perhaps i should just stop.

i'm just sad to have come back to the game after a year and a half retirement to see that the forums are still filled with 100s of whiny people.


And a lot of money lost

vextorious
The Concordiat
Concordiat Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:45:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: vextorious on 06/12/2007 21:45:52
Originally by: Xaroth Brook


next time you play a game, http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308



This was never it question by me. Its just a matter of good business. Some business's choose to own up to their mistakes and make restitution.

Some business's listen to their lawers and choose to "Say nothing and DONT admit liability". This is generally a good idea when you make a huge mistake costing people lots of money.

I just decided to ask point blank which direction CCP was going.

Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:45:00 - [87]
 

Originally by: Jolnas Arbiter
Edited by: Jolnas Arbiter on 06/12/2007 21:43:52
Originally by: Xaroth Brook
The thing is, CCP isn't required to do **** all, it's all in the EULA, the thing you randomly clicked 'i accept' on during install.[/Quote]

Guess what smartass just because you say something in a contract does not mean that it is the word of law in a lot of countries. As I said above... you can't hide stuff in the fine print (not that I'm suggesting that did happen) and you also can't claim no responsibility for something that you charge for.


read the last bit...

Kurmugeon
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:46:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: Xaroth Brook
The thing is, CCP isn't required to do **** all, it's all in the EULA, the thing you randomly clicked 'i accept' on during install.

Quote:

# NO WARRANTIES
The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.



this one alone states that they are not liable for any issues you have.. and if that fails:

Quote:

# DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES
In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.



and even if you want to ignore that and still go ahead with your claims:

Quote:

# INDEMNITY
You shall defend, indemnify and hold harmless CCP and its affiliates, licensors and suppliers, and their respective employees, contractors, officers and directors, from any and all claims, loss, damages and demands, including reasonable attorneys' fees, arising out of: (i) your use or misuse of the Software; (ii) your access to the System; (iii) any activities conducted through your Account (whether by you or another person); and (iv) your playing of the Game.



now some may say 'but i live in england!' or 'i am an american!'

Quote:

# GOVERNING LAW AND EXCLUSIVE FORUM
The EULA, and the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be governed and construed by and in accordance with the laws of the Republic of Iceland. The EULA shall not be governed by the United Nations Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods.

The sole and exclusive forum for resolving any controversy, dispute or claim arising out of or relating to the EULA, or otherwise relating to any rights in, access to or use of the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content and/or the rights and obligations of the parties hereto, shall be the District Court of Reykjavík, Iceland, (Hérađsdómur Reykjavíkur). You hereby expressly waive and agree not to raise any and all objections based on personal jurisdiction, venue and/or inconvenience of such forum and agree to the jurisdiction of the District Court of Reykjavík, Iceland.



Wow, another uninformed poster. Please show me where iin the EULA it states anything about you giving CCP access to non-game related files??? Guess what, you won't find it

Nhi'Khuna
The Environmental Management Team
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:46:00 - [89]
 

Hey guys, did anyone read the EULA? Sorry but that's pretty decisive. I -completely- sympathize with those who got stung on this one, here is the ruling however, for those who are interested:

# NO WARRANTIES
The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.

CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.

While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.

# DISCLAIMER OF DAMAGES
In no event shall CCP, its affiliates, licensors or suppliers be liable to you or to any third party for any special, indirect, incidental, consequential, punitive or exemplary damages (including without limitation, lost profits or lost data), arising out of or in connection with your Account, the System, Software, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, or any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, whether based on warranty, contract, tort or any other legal theory, and whether or not CCP is advised of the possibility of such damages, and even if any stated remedy fails of its essential purpose.

# LIMITATION OF LIABILITY
Except as set forth below, CCP's maximum liability for any and all claims arising out of or in connection with your Account, the Software, System, Game, Game Content, User Content, EULA, and any other services or materials provided in connection therewith, shall not exceed an amount equal to the value of one (1) month's subscription fees.

In the event of a material breach of CCP's obligations to provide access to and use of your Account, the System, Game, Game Content or User Content, your sole and exclusive remedy shall be a refund of any pre-paid subscription fees attributable to the period during which you were denied such access and use, or an amount equal to the value of three (3) months' subscription fees, whichever is less. In the event of a malfunction of or your inability to use the CD-ROM containing the Software, your sole and exclusive remedy shall be a replacement disk from the vendor that provided the CD-ROM in accordance with its replacement policy; CCP shall have no liability for the CD-ROM.

If any of the foregoing disclaimers or limitations of liability are declared to be void or unenforceable, then CCP's liability shall be limited to the maximum extent permissible under applicable law. The remedies set forth herein are exclusive and in lieu of all other remedies, oral or written, express or implied.

Xaroth Brook
Minmatar
BIG
Gentlemen's Agreement
Posted - 2007.12.06 21:47:00 - [90]
 

Originally by: vextorious
Originally by: Xaroth Brook


next time you play a game, http://www.friendsoffoamy.com/index.php?id=308


This was never it question by me. Its just a matter of good business. Some business's choose to own up to their mistakes and make restitution.

Some business's listen to their lawers and choose to "Say nothing and DONT admit liability". This is generally a good idea when you make a huge mistake costing people lots of money.

I just decided to ask point blank which direction CCP was going.


it might be good business if ccp were to give people for instance 1 day free play.. but at the same time they would be ignoring their own EULA where it sais they are not liable.. which can lead to the next time something similar happens (at least people will know how to repair their boot.ini file then :lol: ) they are obliged to give us another free day.. because they did so in the past.


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