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Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.12.06 14:44:00 - [31]
 

Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/12/2007 14:44:23
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/12/2007 14:44:14
Originally by: Peanut Swsh

Another EFT warrior. Actually fly a sabre vs a beam-sader, then come back and talk. Even before this patch a decent beam sader pilot or arty claw pilot could in most cases beat a sabre. And every other interceptor? they could simply run away. Interdictors aren't faster then interceptors, they weren't before the patch, and now, well its not even worth comparing.




Uhm, a sabre has no trouble hitting a beam-sader or an arty claw. Most sabres are going just as fast or faster then inties and they can fit webs. Explain how a the ordinary beam sader without a web kills the ordinary sabre you meet out in space? I think youre smoking too much. I can kill crows and saders in a coercer ffs.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 14:47:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 14:49:49
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/12/2007 14:44:23
Edited by: Lyria Skydancer on 06/12/2007 14:44:14
Originally by: Peanut Swsh

Another EFT warrior. Actually fly a sabre vs a beam-sader, then come back and talk. Even before this patch a decent beam sader pilot or arty claw pilot could in most cases beat a sabre. And every other interceptor? they could simply run away. Interdictors aren't faster then interceptors, they weren't before the patch, and now, well its not even worth comparing.




Uhm, a sabre has no trouble hitting a beam-sader or an arty claw. Most sabres are going just as fast or faster then inties and they can fit webs. Explain how a the ordinary beam sader without a web kills the ordinary sabre you meet out in space? I think youre smoking too much. I can kill crows and saders in a coercer ffs.


I think you meet to many faction fit sabres then. Interceptors are faster then Sabres Period, always have been. A good interceptor pilot will never be in your web range, so you will never catch it or kill it. And now, well, interceptors which previously possibly had to compomise speed to run a 24k scram, can do that no problems.

Also yes, interdictors were nerfed because bubbles were overpowered. That makes sense, because... oh guess what, bubbles are still overpowered, because they HAVEN'T CHANGED. Cavemen eh?

If you have a problem with bubbles being overpowered, then nerf bubbles, don't nerf dictors.

If you have a problem with dictors being faster then ceptors, well they never were, so wtf?


Xequecal
Posted - 2007.12.06 14:47:00 - [33]
 

Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 14:42:43
Originally by: Xequecal

No, no they couldn't. Sabres are well known to squash interceptors.


No, Sabres are well known to squash interceptors that they can catch, which in a non-faction fit, non-snake set world, would be none. The reputation is probably because most interceptors are flown by 3 month old noobs. Sabres used to squish stupid interceptor pilots. Any nano-fit interceptor will outrun the sabre. So how does the interceptor get squished? So unless you somehow start <10km away (and off a gate) which in almost every situation you won't, then the interceptor will get away. And yes if it was an 10k/s gistii polycarb sabre of course it would outrun and squish ceptors.

But if a decent interceptor pilot engages an interdictor, the outcome should be with t2 fittings either dead interdictor, or interceptor runs away. Obviously snakesets/hardwirings/rigs/faction fit will alter results.

Vagabonds are faster then my sabre, but as a smart pilot, dispite flying often times a slightly slower ship, I have yet to lose a sabre to a vagabond (or any other nano-hac). However, I could never kill a vaga in my sabre.

Whereas, an interceptor, even prior to the patch, had a reasonable chance to hit above its class in a 1v1 and win vs a sabre and any other interdictor. Not only that, it can run away whenever it wants.




A pre-patch beamsader can't even shoot + MWD + warp scramble for long enough to break a sabre's 80% EM resist, even if the Sabre does NOTHING. It will cap out before the sabre dies.

Yes, any interceptor can run away from the Sabre. If they try to fight, however, the Sabre is going to slaughter them if he has any clue at all.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 14:56:00 - [34]
 

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 15:00:24
Originally by: Xequecal


A pre-patch beamsader can't even shoot + MWD + warp scramble for long enough to break a sabre's 80% EM resist, even if the Sabre does NOTHING. It will cap out before the sabre dies.

Yes, any interceptor can run away from the Sabre. If they try to fight, however, the Sabre is going to slaughter them if he has any clue at all.


Thats where the good pilots differentiate themselves from the bad. You don't need to run your disruptor constantly, only when you see the dictor aligning to warp, so cap isn't a huge problem. The ceptor can just slowly chip away at the dictor, because the dictors are almost 100% of the time, just running a hp buffer tank, and not a big one at that. Yes you won't win 100% of the time, cause if you lag or get unlucky, or the dictor pilot tricks you, well then you might go outta range for just long enough for him to get away. But, you should never die to one.

but now? well, definately no problems running the disruptor, and well, with my skills a sabre goes 3.5k/s and a claw does 6.5k/s. There just no comparison really. And the poor flycatcher? Its stumbling along at 2.6k/s. I think thats almost slower then a t2 nano-fit battlecruiser (no rigs). and slower then most cruisers as well.

If you are gonna do this, at least give interdictors t2 resists.





Awox
Minmatar
North Eastern Swat
Posted - 2007.12.06 15:07:00 - [35]
 

Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 15:00:24
Originally by: Xequecal


A pre-patch beamsader can't even shoot + MWD + warp scramble for long enough to break a sabre's 80% EM resist, even if the Sabre does NOTHING. It will cap out before the sabre dies.

Yes, any interceptor can run away from the Sabre. If they try to fight, however, the Sabre is going to slaughter them if he has any clue at all.


Thats where the good pilots differentiate themselves from the bad. You don't need to run your disruptor constantly, only when you see the dictor aligning to warp, so cap isn't a huge problem. The ceptor can just slowly chip away at the dictor, because the dictors are almost 100% of the time, just running a hp buffer tank, and not a big one at that. Yes you won't win 100% of the time, cause if you lag or get unlucky, or the dictor pilot tricks you, well then you might go outta range for just long enough for him to get away. But, you should never die to one.

but now? well, definately no problems running the disruptor, and well, with my skills a sabre goes 3.5k/s and a claw does 6.5k/s. There just no comparison really. And the poor flycatcher? Its stumbling along at 2.6k/s. I think thats almost slower then a t2 nano-fit battlecruiser (no rigs). and slower then most cruisers as well.

If you are gonna do this, at least give interdictors t2 resists.


Spot on dude. Anyone who believes ceptors were ever slower than dictors is a ****ing moron. I don't think proving it with actual examples is going to convince these mouth breathers though..

Also, WTB 80% resist Sabre that the guy you responded to is talking about. Also, wtf should a beam sader beat a Sabre? Sabres are anti-support as well as bubble-droppers.. Zulupark is an idiot and he is turning EVE into an idiot's game.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 15:26:00 - [36]
 

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 15:31:48
Originally by: Awox

Spot on dude. Anyone who believes ceptors were ever slower than dictors is a ****ing moron. I don't think proving it with actual examples is going to convince these mouth breathers though..

Also, WTB 80% resist Sabre that the guy you responded to is talking about. Also, wtf should a beam sader beat a Sabre? Sabres are anti-support as well as bubble-droppers.. Zulupark is an idiot and he is turning EVE into an idiot's game.


Oh ****, Awox agree'ing with me, there goes my credibility LaughingRolling Eyes

Seriously thou, dictors are anti-support, they should kill frigs, but really, what can an interdictor kill post patch? T1 frigs LMAO, Assault Frigates (a class of ship that pretty much everyone acknowledges as being pointless, thou well fit, some can beat interdictors due to having really nice t2 resists and quite a decent damage output), and apart from that... nothing, oh haulers and other interdictors.

And the problem with interdictors? the bubble according to some? Well its still there, unchanged.


Karina Bellac
Posted - 2007.12.06 16:22:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: Awox
Spot on dude. Anyone who believes ceptors were ever slower than dictors is a ****ing moron. I don't think proving it with actual examples is going to convince these mouth breathers though..

Also, WTB 80% resist Sabre that the guy you responded to is talking about. Also, wtf should a beam sader beat a Sabre? Sabres are anti-support as well as bubble-droppers.. Zulupark is an idiot and he is turning EVE into an idiot's game.


This.

Apsa1ar
ElitistOps
Posted - 2007.12.06 16:54:00 - [38]
 

Peanut Swsh is my hero.


LEAVE MY SABRE ALONE!

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:04:00 - [39]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Chee
It was a much needed change. Bubbles scramble everything within 20km for 2 minutes. It ws simply too good at too many things: bubbling entire fleets stuck, speeds at invul level, dmg output higher then other ships that reach similar speeds. Simply put, there was no reason to fly another shipclass because it had too many roles.


This is exactly the problem and the reason why they nerfed dictor speed. Anyone that doesnt grasp this is a caveman.


No... it really didn't, but it doesn't matter because my interceptors are uber pwnage of doom now.

Liang

Grimpak
Gallente
Midnight Elites
Echelon Rising
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:06:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Awox
Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 15:00:24
Originally by: Xequecal


A pre-patch beamsader can't even shoot + MWD + warp scramble for long enough to break a sabre's 80% EM resist, even if the Sabre does NOTHING. It will cap out before the sabre dies.

Yes, any interceptor can run away from the Sabre. If they try to fight, however, the Sabre is going to slaughter them if he has any clue at all.


Thats where the good pilots differentiate themselves from the bad. You don't need to run your disruptor constantly, only when you see the dictor aligning to warp, so cap isn't a huge problem. The ceptor can just slowly chip away at the dictor, because the dictors are almost 100% of the time, just running a hp buffer tank, and not a big one at that. Yes you won't win 100% of the time, cause if you lag or get unlucky, or the dictor pilot tricks you, well then you might go outta range for just long enough for him to get away. But, you should never die to one.

but now? well, definately no problems running the disruptor, and well, with my skills a sabre goes 3.5k/s and a claw does 6.5k/s. There just no comparison really. And the poor flycatcher? Its stumbling along at 2.6k/s. I think thats almost slower then a t2 nano-fit battlecruiser (no rigs). and slower then most cruisers as well.

If you are gonna do this, at least give interdictors t2 resists.


Spot on dude. Anyone who believes ceptors were ever slower than dictors is a ****ing moron. I don't think proving it with actual examples is going to convince these mouth breathers though..

Also, WTB 80% resist Sabre that the guy you responded to is talking about. Also, wtf should a beam sader beat a Sabre? Sabres are anti-support as well as bubble-droppers.. Zulupark is an idiot and he is turning EVE into an idiot's game.


this.


today I tried out a cool, non-faction fitted 'sader that is cap stable and such.

T2 dlb's, T2 mwd, T2 1pointer, T2 CPR, a T2 OD and 2 T2 nanos.



imagine my surprise when I could easily push the crusader to over 6km/sec that ship and it was totally cap stable.


now let's look at the sabre. sure it can hit thos speeds or even more, but you're talking about an over 2bil investment in snakes and 100mil or more in polycarbs, plus a few more speed implants.

crusader can do that speed with just 5mil worth of mods or so.

Xequecal
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:12:00 - [41]
 

Peanut Swish: The pre-nerf Sabre is only about 15% slower than a beamsader with equivalent $$$ of fittings. If a beamsader tries to kill it, all the Sabre has to do is burn away from the Crusader. The Crusader can then choose between running away, letting the Sabre get away, or dying. If it tries to chase after the Sabre, that drops transversal and the Sabre will paste it. It will not be able to catch up before the Sabre can annihilate it, the velocity difference is too small.

Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:27:00 - [42]
 

All lies and twisted facts.

No an inty wont kill a sabre, you can dream on sabre-hugger. I think you have never faced a turreted destroyer in an inty before. Even a coercer rips inties apart.

Yes the sabre is way too friggin fast and NO you dont need snakes and NO you dont need faction fitting to get 6+km/s speeds in a sabre. A simple T2 fitted sabre with reasonable (not even all lvl5) nav skills is 6+km/s. Compare the damage output of it and speed with a taranis and tell me youre not talking bull**** about how sabres make inties obsolete?

Johan Quinn
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:44:00 - [43]
 

Edited by: Johan Quinn on 06/12/2007 17:46:12
Edited by: Johan Quinn on 06/12/2007 17:44:15
IF you die to a coercer then u really are rubbish, My ranis rips them apart.
And learn your numbers too a t2 sabre without rigs or implants will NOT reach 6kms (prepatch) without all skills at lvl 5. If your having to dump in that much time 6kms is justified. Now they dont even reach 4kms.

Flying both Dictors and ceptor pretty much exclusivly i would dhave to say that ceptors are now way overpowered.

A crow will kick the **** out of sabre everytime, it can orbit a 20km, MWD and point for ever and never get caught. Ranis can do the same with rails, Claw with arty. Its not hard anymore. Seeing as the description for the sabre actually says good against frigate sized craft, it should be able to catch them with good skills and mods. It isnt.

Cruisers and Hacs can now go faster than dictors this is wrong. Ceptors should be quickest, then dictors, then HACs and cruisers.
Its not the ships that were ****ed up, it is the snake implants and polycarbon rigs.

I fly these ships all the time, but in the end Ceptors are way over powered now, and dictors are flying coffins. Speed reduce for dictors should have been round 10-15% if they wanted to do that and Ceptors ahousl get a 50% cap reduction, then at least skills are still important in remaining cap stable.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:52:00 - [44]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
All lies and twisted facts.

No an inty wont kill a sabre, you can dream on sabre-hugger. I think you have never faced a turreted destroyer in an inty before. Even a coercer rips inties apart.

Yes the sabre is way too friggin fast and NO you dont need snakes and NO you dont need faction fitting to get 6+km/s speeds in a sabre. A simple T2 fitted sabre with reasonable (not even all lvl5) nav skills is 6+km/s. Compare the damage output of it and speed with a taranis and tell me youre not talking bull**** about how sabres make inties obsolete?


johan covered most of your points. But i wanna add, that a sabre won't do 6k/s just on skills alone. I have nav 5 and accel control 4 and my sabre does 4.7k/s t2 fit. accel control 5 i think gets you almost to 5k/s. now unless theres any other skills that i'm missing? (wouldn't suprise me actually) you aren't gonna EVER see a sabre do 6k/s on skills alone.


Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.12.06 17:59:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: Johan Quinn
Edited by: Johan Quinn on 06/12/2007 17:46:12
Edited by: Johan Quinn on 06/12/2007 17:44:15
IF you die to a coercer then u really are rubbish, My ranis rips them apart.
And learn your numbers too a t2 sabre without rigs or implants will NOT reach 6kms (prepatch) without all skills at lvl 5. If your having to dump in that much time 6kms is justified. Now they dont even reach 4kms.

Flying both Dictors and ceptor pretty much exclusivly i would dhave to say that ceptors are now way overpowered.

A crow will kick the **** out of sabre everytime, it can orbit a 20km, MWD and point for ever and never get caught. Ranis can do the same with rails, Claw with arty. Its not hard anymore. Seeing as the description for the sabre actually says good against frigate sized craft, it should be able to catch them with good skills and mods. It isnt.

Cruisers and Hacs can now go faster than dictors this is wrong. Ceptors should be quickest, then dictors, then HACs and cruisers.
Its not the ships that were ****ed up, it is the snake implants and polycarbon rigs.

I fly these ships all the time, but in the end Ceptors are way over powered now, and dictors are flying coffins. Speed reduce for dictors should have been round 10-15% if they wanted to do that and Ceptors ahousl get a 50% cap reduction, then at least skills are still important in remaining cap stable.



Who doesnt fit 2xpoly carbs on their sabre? I said you can do it without snakes and faction mods. Polys dont cost THAT much. Yep it reaches 6+km/s without all lvl 5.

Yep destroyer class ships are anti frig. This means they should be able to hit them when they are in range and they can. The solution is not to make dictors go almost as fast as ceptors. A solution would be to give destroyer class vessels even more tracking and range on their turrets. I wouldnt object to that.

The issue with crow kick the ass of sabre has more to do with an overpower issue of the crow.

Cruisers and Hacs speed has mainly to do with the overpower of polycarb rigs. But again the problem here isnt that the dictor is too slow now, its more that cruisers and hacs are too fast.

You can call dictors flying coffins or whatever dude. You know even if theyd nerf them to 100m/s base speed people would still use them. Nothing can replace a bubble in a fleet.

You and many others are just trying disguise you whine about how your invincible solo pwn machine doesnt get to be so invincible anymore.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:02:00 - [46]
 

Originally by: Xequecal
Peanut Swish: The pre-nerf Sabre is only about 15% slower than a beamsader with equivalent $$$ of fittings. If a beamsader tries to kill it, all the Sabre has to do is burn away from the Crusader. The Crusader can then choose between running away, letting the Sabre get away, or dying. If it tries to chase after the Sabre, that drops transversal and the Sabre will paste it. It will not be able to catch up before the Sabre can annihilate it, the velocity difference is too small.


once the sader pilot establishes an orbit there is nothing a sabre can do but hope he makes a mistake. the speed difference is enough to allow the crusader to dictate range. And also a beam sader easily does more damage at range then the sabre, the beamsader can do good damage at ranges the sabre can't even hit at.

For similar cost fit, well a sader has a chance to kill the sabre, but its also got a chance of dying but its less then half the price, and thats the way it should be. It makes for a good fight. But now a sader will absolutely dominate a sabre. to be fair, shouldn't this mean that my sabre should be able to kill vagabonds?

vagabonds eat sabres, and you never heard dictor pilots whining about that, so wtf does every interceptor pilot whine that they can't easily 1v1 vs a sabre and win. if not they can just dictate range and run away, riskless pvp right?

And actually, I never heard any whines about dictors wtf pwnting interceptors either, so whats up with the changes? The only whines i heard was supercap pilots unhappy about being tackled, and as I have stated, thats a problem with interdiction spheres, and not the speed of interdictors. Because even as they were, there was a lot of ways to kill them.

and now, its just ridiculous.


Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:07:00 - [47]
 

Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Originally by: Xequecal
Peanut Swish: The pre-nerf Sabre is only about 15% slower than a beamsader with equivalent $$$ of fittings. If a beamsader tries to kill it, all the Sabre has to do is burn away from the Crusader. The Crusader can then choose between running away, letting the Sabre get away, or dying. If it tries to chase after the Sabre, that drops transversal and the Sabre will paste it. It will not be able to catch up before the Sabre can annihilate it, the velocity difference is too small.


once the sader pilot establishes an orbit there is nothing a sabre can do but hope he makes a mistake. the speed difference is enough to allow the crusader to dictate range. And also a beam sader easily does more damage at range then the sabre, the beamsader can do good damage at ranges the sabre can't even hit at.

For similar cost fit, well a sader has a chance to kill the sabre, but its also got a chance of dying but its less then half the price, and thats the way it should be. It makes for a good fight. But now a sader will absolutely dominate a sabre. to be fair, shouldn't this mean that my sabre should be able to kill vagabonds?

vagabonds eat sabres, and you never heard dictor pilots whining about that, so wtf does every interceptor pilot whine that they can't easily 1v1 vs a sabre and win. if not they can just dictate range and run away, riskless pvp right?

And actually, I never heard any whines about dictors wtf pwnting interceptors either, so whats up with the changes? The only whines i heard was supercap pilots unhappy about being tackled, and as I have stated, thats a problem with interdiction spheres, and not the speed of interdictors. Because even as they were, there was a lot of ways to kill them.

and now, its just ridiculous.




Sabres not owning ceptors?

Give me a sabre and ill bubble camp all alone at some random gate and you try warp in on my bubble and see what happens. Before you turn around and initiate warp again youre webbed scrambled and dead. Same with pretty much everything thats frig size.
Also T1 cruisers with weaker tank that warp in are tackled and orbited by the sabre, now acting as a wtfpwn inty.
I think it needed a nerf, yep.

Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:08:00 - [48]
 

Changes that have long been needed. Thank you CCP! Very Happy

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:11:00 - [49]
 

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 18:13:50
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

Who doesnt fit 2xpoly carbs on their sabre? I said you can do it without snakes and faction mods. Polys dont cost THAT much. Yep it reaches 6+km/s without all lvl 5.

Yep destroyer class ships are anti frig. This means they should be able to hit them when they are in range and they can. The solution is not to make dictors go almost as fast as ceptors. A solution would be to give destroyer class vessels even more tracking and range on their turrets. I wouldnt object to that.

The issue with crow kick the ass of sabre has more to do with an overpower issue of the crow.

Cruisers and Hacs speed has mainly to do with the overpower of polycarb rigs. But again the problem here isnt that the dictor is too slow now, its more that cruisers and hacs are too fast.

You can call dictors flying coffins or whatever dude. You know even if theyd nerf them to 100m/s base speed people would still use them. Nothing can replace a bubble in a fleet.

You and many others are just trying disguise you whine about how your invincible solo pwn machine doesnt get to be so invincible anymore.



I dunno how rich your buddies are, but the average player doesn't have the isk to fit 2x polycarbs on their dictors. A single vagabond in the opposing fleet will make your 150mil ship go pop in 10 seconds flat. And YET AGAIN, you have shown, that the problem isn't with interdictors, or sabres, the problem is with polycarbs, and bubbles.

Invincible solo pwn mobile. Even before the nerf, the only ships that dictors could solo, were, frigates, destroyers, other interdictors, really ****ty fit t1 cruisers, and industrial ships. Some AF's could give you a run for your money if you got yourself webbed, but really thats bad piloting and not a problem with dictors. And well flown interceptors could give you a really bad day. Now, well, not only do you no longer stand any chance vs interceptors, you are also an easy kill for t1 cruisers, ships that cost <6mil, and with a fairly cheap t2 fit have the speed to keep up with you and pop you no problems.

If you fit yourself with polycarbs etc, your still easily tackled by interceptors, and 1-2 of them will make you pop no problems. And even with polycarbs, I think a nicely fit(t2) stabber would keep up.



Lyria Skydancer
Amarr
Gunship Diplomacy
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:16:00 - [50]
 

Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 18:13:50
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

Who doesnt fit 2xpoly carbs on their sabre? I said you can do it without snakes and faction mods. Polys dont cost THAT much. Yep it reaches 6+km/s without all lvl 5.

Yep destroyer class ships are anti frig. This means they should be able to hit them when they are in range and they can. The solution is not to make dictors go almost as fast as ceptors. A solution would be to give destroyer class vessels even more tracking and range on their turrets. I wouldnt object to that.

The issue with crow kick the ass of sabre has more to do with an overpower issue of the crow.

Cruisers and Hacs speed has mainly to do with the overpower of polycarb rigs. But again the problem here isnt that the dictor is too slow now, its more that cruisers and hacs are too fast.

You can call dictors flying coffins or whatever dude. You know even if theyd nerf them to 100m/s base speed people would still use them. Nothing can replace a bubble in a fleet.

You and many others are just trying disguise you whine about how your invincible solo pwn machine doesnt get to be so invincible anymore.



I dunno how rich your buddies are, but the average player doesn't have the isk to fit 2x polycarbs on their dictors. A single vagabond in the opposing fleet will make your 150mil ship go pop in 10 seconds flat. And YET AGAIN, you have shown, that the problem isn't with interdictors, or sabres, the problem is with polycarbs, and bubbles.

Invincible solo pwn mobile. Even before the nerf, the only ships that dictors could solo, were, frigates, destroyers, other interdictors, really ****ty fit t1 cruisers, and industrial ships. Some AF's could give you a run for your money if you got yourself webbed, but really thats bad piloting and not a problem with dictors. And well flown interceptors could give you a really bad day. Now, well, not only do you no longer stand any chance vs interceptors, you are also an easy kill for t1 cruisers, ships that cost <6mil, and with a fairly cheap t2 fit have the speed to keep up with you and pop you no problems.

If you fit yourself with polycarbs etc, your still easily tackled by interceptors, and 1-2 of them will make you pop no problems. And even with polycarbs, I think a nicely fit(t2) stabber would keep up.





Have you ever tried to keep and orbit and high enough transversal in a ceptor towards a target/enemy thats only around 1km/s slower then you? I think no and many in this thread neither or they are conveniently forgetting this.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:24:00 - [51]
 

Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 18:26:20
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer


Sabres not owning ceptors?

Give me a sabre and ill bubble camp all alone at some random gate and you try warp in on my bubble and see what happens. Before you turn around and initiate warp again youre webbed scrambled and dead. Same with pretty much everything thats frig size.
Also T1 cruisers with weaker tank that warp in are tackled and orbited by the sabre, now acting as a wtfpwn inty.
I think it needed a nerf, yep.


what happens, is if you are smart and move yourself to where i will land, I hit mwd when i land, mwd to gate and jump through. Its the same scenario now as if an interceptor jumps into the camp from the otherside, just mwd back to gate and jump out. If you are on the gate at zero, and I have say 15k between you and me, well i'm more agile them you so i just establish and orbit and shoot you till you are dead.

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer

Have you ever tried to keep and orbit and high enough transversal in a ceptor towards a target/enemy thats only around 1km/s slower then you? I think no and many in this thread neither or they are conveniently forgetting this.


You don't need the transversal because you are out of range of the sabres guns. With barrage loaded and good skills, in a sabre you get about 1.3k optimal, 11k falloff (with my skills 1,296m optimal, and 9,660m falloff). So if the ceptor orbits 19-23km away, well then thats almost optimal + 2x falloff. You aren't gonna land any reasonable hits at that range, even vs a stationary target. whereas a beam sader/arty claw can no problems hit that kinda optimal range. A faster ship will always be able to dictate range, and here, the problem is range, not transversal.



Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:33:00 - [52]
 

First off, normal players don't fly sabers, period. If you're short on isk, you fly an inty, or an eris. And if you've got enough SP that you've trained for dictor, you should be able to make enough isk to fit a saber properly. The problem with sabers was, as already posted, they were too good at too many things. CCP has left their damage alone, their bubbles still render fleets sitting ducks, and the sabre still easily goes 5k with crappy skills, more like 6k with good ones I think.

This is a good nerf. I haven't seen a sabre under 8k in a long time, now to see that my T2 ares is now almost as fast as a 250m sabre, is a good thing. Sabres needed this nerf, and................ OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHA if you think that any inty could ever kill a sabre lmao. If you've ever done so, I demand fraps so I can put it in a roflmao video haha. Oh man that cracks me up. Well, now that a crappy sabre does 4k, intys might have a chance, but the sabre can get back to the gate at any time, if an inty is stupid enough to get in web range, bye bye inty.

I usually hate contributing to the crap threads that are in this forum, but can't help myself. This nerf to the sabre is soo nice. Now on the other had, dictors doing 2.5k max? hmmmmm it was the sabre that needed the nerf, not all dictors =/

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 18:54:00 - [53]
 

Originally by: Jordan Musgrat
First off, normal players don't fly sabers, period. If you're short on isk, you fly an inty, or an eris. And if you've got enough SP that you've trained for dictor, you should be able to make enough isk to fit a saber properly. The problem with sabers was, as already posted, they were too good at too many things. CCP has left their damage alone, their bubbles still render fleets sitting ducks, and the sabre still easily goes 5k with crappy skills, more like 6k with good ones I think.

This is a good nerf. I haven't seen a sabre under 8k in a long time, now to see that my T2 ares is now almost as fast as a 250m sabre, is a good thing. Sabres needed this nerf, and................ OMG HAHAHAHAHAHAHA if you think that any inty could ever kill a sabre lmao. If you've ever done so, I demand fraps so I can put it in a roflmao video haha. Oh man that cracks me up. Well, now that a crappy sabre does 4k, intys might have a chance, but the sabre can get back to the gate at any time, if an inty is stupid enough to get in web range, bye bye inty.

I usually hate contributing to the crap threads that are in this forum, but can't help myself. This nerf to the sabre is soo nice. Now on the other had, dictors doing 2.5k max? hmmmmm it was the sabre that needed the nerf, not all dictors =/


you haven't seen a sabre under 8k/s? Before trinity to hit 8k/s in a sabre means polycarbs x2 + gisti a-type mwd, basically, about a 300mil ship, thats absolutely paper thin, sure it shreds interceptors, but thats about the only thing it can kill, and it should.

I think your view of interdictors is seriously distorted if you think a normal sabre does 8k/s. That means that in a nice gang they are well over 10k/s probably 11-12.

Oh and I'm sure theres some fraps out there of inties killing sabres, but you are unlikely to find anyone willing to post it, because well, then thats proof that interdictors weren't overpowered, and their new found pwnage of interdictors might come to an end.

And whats wrong with 'normal' players flying sabres, they are more skill intensive then interceptors sure, but its no problems to fully t2 fit, and have relavent skilsl fairly high for 5mil SP. Your telling me a player with 5 mil sp should have the means to afford to fit out and fly 300mil ship?




Jordan Musgrat
Convergent
Posted - 2007.12.06 19:13:00 - [54]
 

Granted, yes my view of sabres is distorted, I am used to ones with gistis, and actually the normal sabre in my space does 10k, or 15k with the random claymore in gang (LG snakes). What I am telling you though, is that there are next to 0 players that start an account, and then immediately spec for a dictor. Most people flying ****tors have high SP, or else that account is an alt account made solely for flying dictors.

Also, I had a corp m8 try to take a sabre once, he fitted a ranis for it. The ranis was doing 225 dps (more than the sabre), and had a DCU II. Now that's best case scenario, that's the best tank you can put on an inty (gallente hull amount with 60% resists is sick), and the best dps of any inty by far. He got the sabre to 90% armor, that's the best he could do. In no case will an inty kill a competent sabre, at least pre-trinity. Now other dictors are different, I love catching the odd eris alone in my ranis. But sabre is just sooooo good in so many ways.

Apsa1ar
ElitistOps
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:02:00 - [55]
 

So, how fast, exactly, does a T2-fitted, unrigged crusader go with max skills and no implants? Say, 2 ODs and a nano.

A max-skilled, pre-nerf sabre with 2 ODs would go just under 5k (I want to say 4930).

Ione Hunt
Storm Solutions
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:07:00 - [56]
 

Ignore Lyria...she just wants CCP to nerf everything non-Amarr Wink

Gort
Minmatar
Federation of Freedom Fighters
En Garde
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:39:00 - [57]
 

Originally by: Golem Pyle
Yup, this nerf was noticed and forums flamed the second it was noticed on SISI, but CCP simply doesn't seem to give two squirts about balance or they'd have affected snakes and balanced multi-ODJ, dual poly setups which are the problem.

Ain't eve grand? Sell off those GTC's so you can get snakes like the "real" players of eve. Because it costs a lot is always a good reason to to leave it unbalanced.


Right on, bro.

Xequecal
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:45:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Apsa1ar
So, how fast, exactly, does a T2-fitted, unrigged crusader go with max skills and no implants? Say, 2 ODs and a nano.

A max-skilled, pre-nerf sabre with 2 ODs would go just under 5k (I want to say 4930).


With 2x OD II, no rigs, no implants, a crusader goes ~6000m/sec.

Viper Sam
Minmatar
Beyond Divinity Inc
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:49:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Originally by: Peanut Swsh
Edited by: Peanut Swsh on 06/12/2007 18:13:50
Originally by: Lyria Skydancer
Have you ever tried to keep and orbit and high enough transversal in a ceptor towards a target/enemy thats only around 1km/s slower then you? I think no and many in this thread neither or they are conveniently forgetting this.


Thank f***k, finally someone said it.

You are flying in a circle... a massive circle. The distance your target must cover to get to you is MUCH shorter than the distance you must cover to maintain range and transversal. Even the most skilled pilots will find themselves in web range when orbiting ships that move more than 3k/s... even if their ship does 6k/s.

Moral of the story:
Most dictors will still sh*t on inties solo. They will still be able to drop bubbles and get out. Their pilots' *****es just won't be as large as they once were. I can live with that.

Peanut Swsh
Posted - 2007.12.06 20:57:00 - [60]
 

Originally by: Xequecal
Originally by: Apsa1ar
So, how fast, exactly, does a T2-fitted, unrigged crusader go with max skills and no implants? Say, 2 ODs and a nano.

A max-skilled, pre-nerf sabre with 2 ODs would go just under 5k (I want to say 4930).


With 2x OD II, no rigs, no implants, a crusader goes ~6000m/sec.


why not just blatently lie. My stiletto(slower base speed, and more mass then crusader) with accell control 4, a slower base speed, and more mass, already does 6182m/s (2OD 1Nano). with just 2 OD, it is a lot slower only 5505m/s. So if you put a nanofiber on that crusader it would be going 6700m/s.

A claw which has a higher base speed then the crusader but more mass goes 6659m/s with accel control 4, so probably 6800k/s with level 5 skills.

The crusader speed, would be closer to the claw speed, so I think at least 6700m/s with level 5 skills. Don't have one in my hanger to test atm unfortunately.




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