open All Channels
seplocked EVE General Discussion
blankseplocked SM.3 Q for you graphic Gurus (no not a 'can my card run Trinity Q' )
 
This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 
Pages: 1 [2]

Author Topic

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.12.01 21:22:00 - [31]
 

Vertex and Pixel shaders are done in hardware. The game, and thus DirectX and OpenGL specifically ask the cards to do stuff in a certain way, and it's almost impossible to emulate it. Even if you can, you would have to emulate the main component of modern graphics cards, namely the shaders units... And that would be slow, very slow. If you get 0.00033 FPS you'd have a very fast PC.

Daelorn
Posted - 2007.12.01 21:37:00 - [32]
 

Originally by: Theo Samaritan
Originally by: Forsch
Originally by: Mattikus
Like Theo said....no SM3 card = no awesome graphics. Its as simple as that...

Well that is exactely what this thread is about. Maybe there is a way. Are you a professional with graphic cards or did you just pull this information from the patch notes?

There have been tricks like this in the past. It's at least worth trying for those of us who cannot easily 'upgrade'.


The problem im worried with is not laptops running the new engine under SM2.b (possible) but the fact that any laptops without an SM3 card will struggle with the poly levels.


My Go 6150 actually handles the new graphics a whole lot better than I thought it would (With exceptions, zoomed in really close, a whole lot of people in the same area), although I think I'll stick with the classic client for the most part just to squeeze every FPS I can out of the laptop.

Doesnt matter, this winter I'll be building a nice desktop Cool

Fanjita
Posted - 2007.12.01 21:43:00 - [33]
 

Edited by: Fanjita on 01/12/2007 21:43:47
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
the engine is built on SM3. no Sm3 no dice on the new graphics.

getting an sm3 card isnt that hard. a 6600GT is what, 70 now most?


Actually it should be entirely possible as they ealeased a hack/fix for oblivion and bioshock which allowed none sm3 cards to run it i have no idea how though not being a programmer.

Cardice Makar
Dark Knights of Deneb
Posted - 2007.12.01 22:20:00 - [34]
 

Originally by: Fanjita
Edited by: Fanjita on 01/12/2007 21:43:47
Originally by: Theo Samaritan
the engine is built on SM3. no Sm3 no dice on the new graphics.

getting an sm3 card isnt that hard. a 6600GT is what, 70 now most?


Actually it should be entirely possible as they ealeased a hack/fix for oblivion and bioshock which allowed none sm3 cards to run it i have no idea how though not being a programmer.


Unfortunately, as I understand it, Bioshock is an exception to the rule. With Bioshock, the engine was built using alot of SM2 tech, with a few SM3 characteristics added on to "clean the game up" at the end. The shader modifications they did, simply neglected to run, a great deal of the SM3-only effects.

Then again, I only briefly followed the project as I was upgrading from my X800 anyway.

The laptop issue is quite unfortunate. I feel for you. On the bright side, the classic client will remain if there is not a client-side modification available for the premium content. A minor bonus, but it still allows us to all play the game together.

posty post
Posted - 2007.12.01 22:25:00 - [35]
 

Well there's no way I'll be upgrading simply because I have absolutely no idea what king of card or whatever will work on my computer and I don't want to buy a new one to find it won't work for some reason. I know I'm a ****** in that area and probably don't deserve to own a computer or something.

Plutoinum
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.12.01 22:36:00 - [36]
 

Originally by: posty post
Well there's no way I'll be upgrading simply because I have absolutely no idea what king of card or whatever will work on my computer and I don't want to buy a new one to find it won't work for some reason. I know I'm a ****** in that area and probably don't deserve to own a computer or something.


You could still ask someone else, who has a clue or grab your PC, go to a shop and get some help there. Ok, if they know that you have no idea, they might sell you some crap they want to get rid of or sell you the most expensive advanced stuff and convince you that you need it. Laughing

Theo Samaritan
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.12.01 23:42:00 - [37]
 

Originally by: 7shining7one7
Hi guys

Yeah there's definately ways to fool the directx api. That's how halo 2 got ported to windows xp by some ingenious people, they put dummy method calls into the api and so when they were called they just did nothing, and the game ran on windows xp, (it was a vista oriented, sold on the buy dx10 thing). and actually the funny thing was that it ran with 30% more fps than it did on vista <3



That argument fails on that Halo 2 is written in DX9, its only Vista-only because of some parse checks and lockdowns. nothing to do with DX10 at all.

sg3s
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.12.02 00:09:00 - [38]
 

Running a proper game on a laptop is a failure of the user by default, don't play games on laptops, they're just not build for it, and if they are, they're too expensive to actually be worth it. If you did buy a gaming laptop it means you have too much money and you wouldn't be posting crap here and just simply upgrade.

Get a SM3.0 card.

/thread

Xordan
Caldari
Posted - 2007.12.02 00:39:00 - [39]
 

The shaders are applied to materials, which are virtual objects containing a texture. So to answer the first post, they are in effect 'layered' on top of the texture. It's entirely possible for the models and textures to be displayed without the shader applied to them, but apparently this kind of backwards support wasn't chosen. I think I can give a few reasons for this:

1) By forgetting backwards support for the new renderer CPP greatly reduce the complexity (and thus the number of potential bugs) of it. It's a fresh start, and lowers their development time.
2) They basically copy/pasted (okay, a bit more than that) the old renderer which they know works into the new engine and integrated it. They already know that it works, which greatly reduces the testing and development time needed.
3) The artists didn't have to worry about making the models look good without the shader applied. Again, reduces their development time.
4) Still related, SM3 has more 'instructions' which can be given to the graphics card which allows them to do the same things that SM2 can, but faster. They decided that if they were going to have a fresh start, they might as well go the whole way and make sure they have no 'old' code mixing with the new renderer.

You can probably see a trend here. Time costs money, and more time means we get the shinies later than we would have. By having a fresh start it's easier to maintain and enhance the new renderer into the future. It might be possible for the new renderer to not apply those shaders (depending on how much they decided to hard-code), but the chances are that if that was done the game would look bad.

All of that might be totally wrong of course, but my exp in the field leads me to believe that it's probably a pretty accurate explanation. I hope this helps :)

Forsch
Auctoritan Syndicate
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
Posted - 2007.12.02 03:48:00 - [40]
 

Originally by: Xordan
...I hope this helps :)

It does. At least alot more than those telling you to buy a new card without having a clue of the mechanics.
Thanks.


Pages: 1 [2]

This thread is older than 90 days and has been locked due to inactivity.


 


The new forums are live

Please adjust your bookmarks to https://forums.eveonline.com

These forums are archived and read-only