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blankseplocked So are we all cool with the carrier nerf?
 
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Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.29 07:53:00 - [31]
 

Originally by: wapacz
Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14
Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52
Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits.

I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into.
Awwwwwwwwwww.

Can you contract me your carrier? I'm about to start training for them. With a bit of luck if you ever figure out how Eve is supposed to work I might be willing to let you have it back.

RU Pondering
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:28:00 - [32]
 

Edited by: RU Pondering on 29/11/2007 09:32:02
Originally by: Andrue
With a bit of luck if you ever figure out how Eve is supposed to work I might be willing to let you have it back.


What the **** kind of comment is that? Since you're such a bloody damn genius, explain it to EVERYONE else whom have trained a year or more to get into a carrier, and to the corps that supported the pilot by doing whatever was needed to get the minerals needed to build the damn thing, why they should be happy that one major use of the ship has just gotten flushed down the ****ter.

Not all of us are in large corps, not all of us have endless supplies of ISK at our disposal. We can't just whip out Rorquals or Jump Freighters on demand. As I see it, this change makes it harder for smaller groups (corps or alliances) to move out to 0.0. With the pre-nerf carrier, ships could be used to move other ships, mods, POS stuff, etc. Now, you can't do that. Your options are what, a hauler / freighter convoy, a Rorqual, or a Jump Freighter? The first option increases the risk significantly without increasing the reward since the reward is the same pre- or post- nerf. The second and third options mean more cost, more mining, and more work to do something that can be done right now.

Put another way, while this nerf is obviously meant to be a nice time and ISK sink, the larger groups of players are able to absorb this relatively easy and continue on, whereas the smaller groups of players are liable to be completed screwed over.

And anyone who says anything along the lines of "Don't like it, then join one of the larger groups" need to realize that they're falling into the trap of dictating how to play, which directly contradicts a major selling point of Eve. Besides, some people have loyalty to corps / alliances / friendships they've been a part of for a long time and have no desire to change that.

Kakita J
Placid Reborn
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:21:00 - [33]
 

First of all, it hardly takes a year to get into a carrier. Maybe from zero, but then again, going straight for carriers is about as useful as 4 week old BS pilots.

Second, training for ANY ship carries the implicit risk of it being nerfed. Ask the Titan pilots how they think about the 10 minute jump delay after Doomsday etc. Or the Amarr recon pilots about the nos nerf. Or Gallente pilots about the drone nerf. Or Caldari about PVP.

Third, carriers are not nearly being nerfed to the point of being "useless". They're just less overpowered and allround useful.

Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
Intrepid Crossing
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:26:00 - [34]
 

With the Rorqual boost and the Jump Freighters I am not surprised by the move. They want us to use them and not the carriers for logistics I think.

It'll take getting used to but I think we'll adapt.


Kurogauna
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:46:00 - [35]
 

Lol i don't care now about all this things...

This patch brings too much crap ...

If ccp want to reduce the drones lag, he can group 5 drones in ONE object, like a unit... But no, always better to nerf month and month of skills.

I'll leave ^ ^

Darwinia
Minmatar
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:12:00 - [36]
 

I can understand why they 'nerfed' the unintended use of carriers as supply ships, but not the Rorqual boost...

Who the heck is going to use the cargo space gimped jump freighters over them.. they will cost 5x as much and use more fuel/cargo carried...

It's ok to pre nerf things, but introducing ships thate are useless from the get go is just stupid.

umop 3pisdn
Minmatar
Fnck the blob.
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:35:00 - [37]
 

I'm not a carrier pilot and i dont think i'll reactivate my alt who was 90% of the way there until I see what happens to the carrier DPS nerf...

This change seems ok, will make carriers more useful for "logistics" and less useful for "hauling pos fuel"

The other nerf though... ick... it should die to death...

CCP is looking at carriers all wrong. 1 Carriers DPS is fine, its not hard to cope with, its f'ing spider tanks that are the problem.

Until they start spider tanking carriers are easy as pie to deal with, you have to outnumber them if you're in sub capitals but they provide a good challenge.

If spider tanking was changed (ccp seems obsessed with the idea of carriers repping everything and hugging stations till the day the servers end) then maybe the problems would go away.

They are never solo wtfpwnmobiles, when there are 5 or more they create a wtfforced*********blob which is not a lot of fun...

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:39:00 - [38]
 

Really simple, adapt or die. If you honestly can't figure out how to still make use of you carrier you may aswell quit while you're ahead. The half of the eve community that has this figured out will simple silently keep moving forward while you waste your time screaming like a two year old for thier bottle. Think it out and you may just figure out what everyone else has.

Illyrinia
Caldari
The Graduates
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:41:00 - [39]
 

uh... im happy, im a chimera pilot (part time lmao)

Dahin
Maza Nostra
HELL4S
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:49:00 - [40]
 

Carriers did indeed to it all.
Kill, support, haul.

I mean there was nothing they couldn't do (well, apart from run most missions in em).


So, from a guy that already has quite a few carrier-related skills to 5:
The hauling nerf was fine, I'd like to see the fighter nerf as well.

Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:21:00 - [41]
 

Edited by: Judge Ment on 29/11/2007 12:22:02
FFS some people are smoke'n


1.) Takes more then yr to get into Capital ships. Then it takes even longer to train capital skills. After all Capital ships ARE Not for NEW 4Weeks old players WITH BS Skill..

/Buddy you are on crack!

2.) CCP has really not thought this through at all. Carrier happens to be a big part *As a Logistical ship* I would say its more MOVING station on Wheels.

a.) It offers support with it fighter to <smaller fighters> making them stronger.
b.) It offers quick change in deep space. I cant stress the importance of this part. This might be the biggest part of the Carrier Polit.
c.) It the smartest hauler in space! Piracy would love to see this <NERF>
d.) Do I think it awesome fighting ship? No I think the Carrier is a Logistical ship. Do you see them in fleet wars on the battlefields? ans NO!


3.) Over the months that I been part of CCP. The game is really change with all the stupid nerfs. The worst being against CALDARI ships. <the most used ships in the game> But this is the biggest crock of **** yet!

OMG I cant believe more carrier polit are not here to whine about the change. GOOD GOD YOU DONE IT!

Lazuran
Gallente
Aliastra
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:34:00 - [42]
 

Originally by: Li via
It will no longer be possible to use the cargohold of a ship stored in a ship maintenance array for additional storage. Only charges will be storable.?



It's a stupid unrealistic and probably code-bloating restriction, but we wanted the Carriers to stay capable of fighting on the front lines and they can still do that.

If the carebearing role of Carriers is nerfed, that's fine with me. Although a larger corp hangar would be appropriate now IMO.



eve warrior
Minmatar
Filthy Scum
Scum Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:40:00 - [43]
 

I for one Love it. Now i can fit bs into the ship bay Very Happy

eve warrior

Kerfira
Kerfira Corp
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:44:00 - [44]
 

Carriers are not getting nerf'ed, they're getting a boost!

Able to haul more ships!
Able to haul BATTLESHIPS!
Remove unintended ability to pretend they're haulers!

So, 2 outright gold-class wins, and one removal of an ability they're not supposed to have anyway. That's a boost, not a nerf!

A carrier is a fighting ship, not a friggin' hauler!

Oh, and to the dissatisfied goon..... CIHYS?

thoth foc
Arcane Technologies
The Five
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:48:00 - [45]
 

Originally by: wapacz
Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:52:14
Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 04:45:52
Really thinking about quiting now. I just spent 2.5 bill isk on a ship that took me 8 months to train and have had less than 2 months. The carrier now pretty much has 5k of capacity becuase the carrier needs fuel to go any where so you have to pack extra to be safe. Then they are increasing the size of cap modules so carrier can't carry a refit. Though the real pain of this all is that I now have to keep track of other peoples refits.

I really just don't have the will to put in the time for isk grind. The time for the skills. To just to have a ship nerfed to make another one look worth while. Especially on something that cost so much isk that it practically would have paid for 3/4 of my play time in eve and has took a 1/3 of my time in eve to get into.


mhm.. my question is.. did you actually need the carrier in the first place? I have a carrier that i have never actually used.. My first suggestion b4 deciding to quit the game is to look at the way you want to play

wapacz
Ars ex Discordia
Test Alliance Please Ignore
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:51:00 - [46]
 

Edited by: wapacz on 29/11/2007 14:46:50
Originally by: Judge Ment


b.) It offers quick change in deep space. I cant stress the importance of this part. This might be the biggest part of the Carrier Polit.



This is what really gets me. I can also fly a freighter could be in a jump freighter in a matter of hours. Can be in a rorqual with in 2 hours. Its really not the hauling that bugs me.
What it is is that just like back when freighters couldn't take courier missions. I had to open notepad get what ever one was giving me, doing it one at a time. Then fly the freighter down to where ever and sort through all the stuff and escrow or trade it back to every one.
Now I am doing the same dang thing except I am in a combat zone. where probably 90% of the people can't use my corp hangar. So I have to sit there with this list get in a convo see what they want. Drag it all to my cargo hold and then jet it so they can refit.

Now imagine I am back at a station bring new ships to the front line. I have to get in a convo with who ever want a ship. Get a list of there refit modules. Set up what to do is say they loose that ship before refitting. Then finally get them to contract me the ship and the item. All this I have to do for each person. Then once that is all done get the cynos in place to actually get it down and hope the battle isn't all over by the time I get there. Oh and did I mention the whole fact that the cha can lag like crazy and take 5 minutes to open at time.

Compare this to the past where I would just say put the refit in the cargo hold and contract it. Then throw the ship in my sma get the cynos I need.

Really there are better ways nerf it so its not a great hualer, but still makes them not a pain in the butt for the pilot. Like say limit the size of how much cargo can go in a ship. Say like 1000 m3 or some such as that is the biggest none industrial type ship now. They already check for cans before you can put anything in the sma. So it can't be much of a stretch to check the m3 in it.



Rake Mizar
Rage and Terror
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.11.29 15:21:00 - [47]
 

Edited by: Rake Mizar on 29/11/2007 15:22:14
I'm just glad I decided not to throw rigs on my two Iteron III's I was using.

Time to remove the u-haul sticker off the side of it. I'll live.

edit because 'scr ape' contains a naughty word.

Andrue
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.29 15:44:00 - [48]
 

Edited by: Andrue on 29/11/2007 15:44:06
Originally by: Rake Mizar
Edited by: Rake Mizar on 29/11/2007 15:22:14
edit because 'scr ape' contains a naughty word.
Curiously enough it also contains the name of a very common plant crop.

aevistyne
Caldari
Solarflare Heavy Industries
Doctrine.
Posted - 2007.11.29 15:54:00 - [49]
 

If that's all they're doing, I have no real issues with it, I would like it if they doubled the size of the corp hangar so that i could store some more fuel, and spare fittings/ammo for the ships i can now hold in my bay, but as far as the ideas that they were tossing around, have to say i support this nerf the most out of them.


Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 16:17:00 - [50]
 

I hope everyone realizes that the cargo nerf is IN ADDITION to the aborted plans to nerf carriers. That nerf is still comming, although the recent outrage against the ill-conceived ZuluPark post has delayed it for now.

From what I can glean of CCP's intentions from the Features and Ideas section, they are leaning towards making things like the Ship Maint Array and the Fighters bonus to be some kind of 'super-rig' that you add to your carrier. The supposed promise is that you can set your ship up to perhaps surpass the current abilities, but by sacrificing other abilities. None of this is official, of course - I'm just speculating based on what input I have.

So this cargo nerf is all about CCP not liking the cargo carrying role of a carrier. The funny thing is that by the logic they have employed, look for a nerf to the Rorqual and Dread hauling capabilities in the future. After all, 'your not using them as intended' Rolling Eyes

To the OP: NO! I'm not 'ok' with it! I live 55 jumps from Jita: I jumped cargo in my Carrier cuz there was no better alternative and the job needed to be done. CCP delayed a year in giving us the Jump Freighter. Now they are taking away the mover of choice before the Jump Freighters can become common. And as stated, people will just use another ship type to jump stuff to 0.0. If CCP would simply give us the Jump Freighter, they would find that there is no need to nerf carriers.

Strak Yogorn
Amarr
Mind Warpers
Posted - 2007.11.29 16:36:00 - [51]
 

You know.. noone is forcing you to sell/buy stuff in jita ...

Princess Jodi
Cutting Edge Incorporated
RAZOR Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 17:15:00 - [52]
 

Edited by: Princess Jodi on 29/11/2007 17:18:14
Strak, that is one wickedly stupid comment as a supposed comeback in support of Carrier nerfing.

It bothers me to have to explain this to you, mostly cuz I don't know if I can do it using only single-syllable words:

I said 'Jita' cuz most peeeps know where it is.


Edited to change the word 'people' to 'peeps'. That way it stayed mono-sylable for you. Besides, 'peeps' is exactly the kind of dumb-downed vernacular that suits your comment.

Horace Slughorn
Posted - 2007.11.29 18:43:00 - [53]
 

Edited by: Horace Slughorn on 29/11/2007 18:47:39
A Ship Maintenance Bay and a Ship Maintenance Array Are 2 seperate things the array is for POS's only. The Carrier does not have a Ship Maintenance Array it is a Ship Maintenance Bay.

If you look at the attributes of one of the carriers it says Ship Maintenance Bay.

Judge Ment
BOOM BOOM POW
Posted - 2007.11.29 19:19:00 - [54]
 

Foo Bar

Tecknoblaze
Priory of Empire
Wayfarer Stellar Initiative
Posted - 2007.11.29 19:24:00 - [55]
 

For those complaining about the stored ships' storage...maybe I'm missing something but couldn't you just use respectively named secure containers to store ship mods?

Cadiz
Caldari
EXTERMINATUS.
Nulli Secunda
Posted - 2007.11.29 19:37:00 - [56]
 

Originally by: Tecknoblaze
For those complaining about the stored ships' storage...maybe I'm missing something but couldn't you just use respectively named secure containers to store ship mods?

This is awkward because you can't take stuff out of secure containers within the carrier corp hangar array. You have to move them to your cargo first, THEN take stuff out of them.

Zeminy
Minmatar
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
Posted - 2007.11.29 20:10:00 - [57]
 

Quote:
The Nidhoggur now has a new low slot at the expense of a medium slot.


Does that mean they can actually tank now? If so then I am happy. lolz

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.11.29 20:48:00 - [58]
 

Originally by: Hypothetical
CCP was smart about this tbh. They suggested the ******ed drone nerf, then slipped the hauling nerf in. It sucks, but it's better than the proposed fighter nerf, and it WILL be nice to be able to carry fleet BSs.

I think "happy" is overstating it, we're at the acceptance phase.


Dont kid yourself. There is still some kind of big nerf coming to carrier fighters / drones. They just havent figured out how to feed it to us.

If this upcoming patch were the ONLY nerf, I'll be fine. But I am almost possitive that more are incoming.

Turin
Caldari
Body Count Inc.
Cascade Imminent
Posted - 2007.11.29 20:51:00 - [59]
 

Originally by: UGWidowmaker
well rather the hauling ability than the fighting ability... if they really would nerf fighters.. hmmm then i would be very damn upset.. VERY.


dont kid yourself. Its coming. Just hasnt happened yet.

Strak Yogorn
Amarr
Mind Warpers
Posted - 2007.11.29 22:50:00 - [60]
 

fair enough princess jodi :)


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