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Gner Dechast
Flashman Services
Posted - 2007.11.28 22:14:00 - [1]
 

...but only after viewing the FanFest video's in Eve-TV site, and apparently the upcoming ambulation was a major contribution for her deciding to give Eve a go.

She was quick to point out that the spamiel at eve-online site trying to promote Eve was a major turn-off for her. I am unable to see how, but she tried to explain something about it reeking of teenage boy testosterone hooks and such (can't recall exactly her words - oh and thank you Eve-TV for doing what Eve adverticements, videos and trailers utterly fail to do).

BUT, she's a Mac user, very stubborn one too, doesn't seem to want to switch to mainstream PC's no matter what. This essentially means that the Mac support is key issue for getting her, and perhaps lots like her, to try the game. Yet again, thumbs up for the Mac support (altho I will rather eat molten lead than use Mac myself).

So, what am I writing about here? Well, it's the current condition of the Mac client... I did my best trying to read this forum for the very peculiar problems she was having, like character creation running into a dead end refusing to validate any suggested name, entering game getting stuck (well, considered to be stuck after few minutes of waiting) and whopping 6 Eve client freeze's in just one hour. (something about some "bar" not visible when Eve is on that would allow forced shutdown of the program resulting in the need to reboot the whole machine - does it not run in windowed mode in Mac?)

That's obviously not playable, and I understand that the current version of the client, at the time of writing is the very first release and the very first patch for it. Hence I explained to her, that this may be little too early to try yet, especially the new expansion coming as well (don't really want to traumatize a new player with a new patch right at the time they try to discover the game).

So, how is the Mac client project progressing? What is the generic feel, when the client might be up to semi-decent spec for new players to start using the trial period to see if they like to play? Would I be a fool to imagine this might take until January or something?

Thank You for humoring your average Winbozo/linux heretic with your comments Wink

Gner Dechast
Flashman Services
Posted - 2007.11.28 22:18:00 - [2]
 

Oh yeah, and scandic characters...

[22:16:53] ***** ****** > pŠŠsin tŠnne sisŠlle mut

Should be "pääsin tänne sisälle mut"

Is this a known problem already? Question

Fermi Drake
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.11.29 00:16:00 - [3]
 

Edited by: Fermi Drake on 29/11/2007 01:21:02
Quote:
very peculiar problems she was having, like character creation running into a dead end refusing to validate any suggested name, entering game getting stuck (well, considered to be stuck after few minutes of waiting) and whopping 6 Eve client freeze's in just one hour. (something about some "bar" not visible when Eve is on that would allow forced shutdown of the program resulting in the need to reboot the whole machine - does it not run in windowed mode in Mac?)


I had the character creation issue once as well, but it went away after restarting the client. By default, the Mac client does not run in Windowed mode, although pressing Command + Return will switch between window and full screen. However, this change will not be saved the next time the game turns on.
There is a way to save the preference for Windowed mode, which involves going into the Eve preferences file (Usr/Library/Preferences/Eve Online Preferences) and changing the "Fullscreen" parameter from 1 to 0. It's not something most Mac users are used to doing, and it's certainly not ideal, but it's not as hard as it sounds if you've never done it before!

The 6 freezes in 1 hour is surprising to me, as I have only had a handful of freezes in two weeks of play. Granted, I'm not doing anything too fancy, but still. What computer is she running on? It seems to me that the Mac client is working very well on newish Macbook Pros and iMacs, and less well on older models (Edit: The evidence I have for this is purely, completely anecdotal). It may help to drop the resolution to as low as possible (that's what I do; let's me run Eve in the background while I do other things).

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:45:00 - [4]
 

Did you apply the patch we issued on Tuesday? It has to be manually applied to the Mac Client.

The mac client fixes has been confirmed. The install is simple:

1. Download the file to your desktop
2. Open the file to extract it
3. Open the extracted file
4. Locate and select EVE Online.app under Applications and click update

Here is the link for it: http://ccp.vo.llnwd.net/o2/mac/eveclassicpatch41736-41736-mac.zip


Gner Dechast
Flashman Services
Posted - 2007.11.29 17:47:00 - [5]
 

Edited by: Gner Dechast on 29/11/2007 18:15:33
Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Did you apply the patch we issued on Tuesday? It has to be manually applied to the Mac Client.



Eh, this is where the fault is mine, and she actually discovered this on her own Embarassed I was so bent on these things getting updated on the client, that it was me who actually told her that it would be there automatically...

The client was patched today by her, and it is significantly more stable. It does have a wide array of other troubles thou, including ones that require several restarts plus scandinavic characters don't produce any output now, where they did wrong characters before patch. But I understood the improvement was significant nevertheless.

I have requested her to come here and explain her experiences and problems in more detail.

Thank You all, hopefully I don't mess up things here anymore Wink

EDIT: Correction, scandic letters produce whitespace (empty) instead of proper chevrons.

beata reyam
Posted - 2007.11.29 22:23:00 - [6]
 

I have heard a lot of good things of Eve from two different directions and for a year I have had it on the back of my mind: could be a game that i might like. Now that i heard there is an official mac support i decided to give it a try.

Have to tell this doesn't seem like a ready made program (which it obviously is not, and that's ok in early state of work i guess). But to tell some things that troubles me: It feels like Eve is not working _with_ my comp, it is more like trying to force rule it. Right when I open the program, it fills my whole screen, and enables the normal Dock-panel and all the other applications to work. Voices (music, skype etc.) can be heard still but those programs are not in my controll anymore cause Eve blocks them. Controls seem bit weird, scrolling doesn't work at all (i can't zoom at all and I can't use normal two fingers scroll with sliding panels. I love that mac feature (in laptops touch pads)), copy and paste doesn't work, scandics (äöå) doesn't work (only empty space instead of letter) what else.. there are more but i can't remember all..


I tried Eve with out the patch first and it crashed 2 times when i tried to create a character. ( I was extremely ****ed when I made the face third time ;) Today I made a bit effort (i am quite lazy when it comes to getting my entertainment work, would love to just open and use;) and find out the patch from the forum. It helped a bit.
And, both mac client installing and patch installing systems were mac user friendly and worked fine. (i really liked that! but it would be more important that using Eve would feel right than installing it. After all: you don't install all the time)


The Eve doesn't crash that much anymore (with current patch)but the picture breaks in to small pieces, breaks down in weird ways and gots some icons on background graphics, that it should not have. Only reboot of whole prog. helps. The program runs for a while but every time it seems to crush at the latest after an hour.

I find it very difficult that i can not "force quit" Eve as other mac programs if it needs that but i have to reboot my whole comp! It is not my computer that need to be rebootet but the Eve. For Windows users this may seem as a lie, but I have never before been forced to reboot my mac if some software crashes. Because of Eve have done it several times allready.. =(

I haven't yet tried out that weird sounding way to put my Eve's full screen function off described above. Command key + enter do smaller the window BUT the whole program doesn't work at all after that! Eve does not crash, but it won't work either before i return to full screen mode.


I'm in hard situation here..
I loved the introcution video of the game, funtions ingame seem complex and "intelligent" enough to be entertaining, i would have friends there etc. so I might really love to play that game if it would work properly.
Then again.. I don't feel it would be reasonable to pay for a game that is in this state and breaks my nerves. I am quite sure it will not be completed during my "free try days" so should I even waste my time to build that char up and learn the game controls etc. when client is not ok yet and i don't know if i can save my char till the games mac version is finished.

Lots of whining, sorry guys..
I dont usually whine on the forums (use my time doing things that work already ;) but i was under hard pressure to tell my mac experiences.

my baby:
MacBook with intel (1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo)
OS X 10.4.11
1G memory

well, perhaps that is just not good enoght ? =/

Nezak
Posted - 2007.11.29 23:20:00 - [7]
 

I'd love to help out and am an extremely technical user with extensive PC and mac experience, feel free to contact me via aim: linkywins or msn [email protected] - I'd have a few questions regarding your current system and setup. I can tell you however that I am playing on a 20" C2D 2.16ghz and I have found the mac client to be completely useable, even for fleet type events - and I can assure you that my standards are quite high (I had been playing eve on my gaming PC, a quad core with 2x 8800 ultra's and 4 gigs of ram and refuse anything less then perfection from my games)

anyway, let me know if I can help, I'm a switcher and a mac lover, anything I can do to help the cause =)

CCP Lingorm


C C P
Posted - 2007.11.30 10:25:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: beata reyam
Lots of info and feedback.


It is always good to get feedback.

We will have automatic patching of the TransGaming Engine for the Mac from Trinity onwards, so no more manual patches.

TransGaming are working on the keyboard issues to add support for more keyboards and characters but this is taking some time.

As for the Picture image I have a few questions :

What is the video card in your MacBook? Is it an integrated Intel video chipset or a discrete ATi or NVidia chipset. We only officially support the discrete video chipsets due to driver and compatibility.

We are looking into the instability after exit issue and hope to have it resolved soon.

I will also be pointing the TransGaming dev's at your post and getting them to make sure that everything is being looked into.

beata reyam
Posted - 2007.11.30 11:40:00 - [9]
 

Originally by: CCP Lingorm
Originally by: beata reyam
Lots of info and feedback.

We are looking into the instability after exit issue and hope to have it resolved soon.

I will also be pointing the TransGaming dev's at your post and getting them to make sure that everything is being looked into.





This sounds great
I'm extremely happy you take mac developing so seriously


Thanks
waiting for fully working Eve version with enthusiasm.
-beeta

Fermi Drake
Caldari
School of Applied Knowledge
Posted - 2007.12.01 08:06:00 - [10]
 

Beata:

If you'd still like to try to play the game now, switching to windowed mode will help you with a lot of these problems. Though I wouldn't necessarily advise running programs in the background if you're having crashes, running in windowed mode will let you Force Quit as you're used to (and if that doesn't work, brute force it using Activity Monitor's FQ; works every time). I feel like this is becoming my only helpful hint, but windowed mode can be enabled at startup by editing the Eve preferences file in Usr/Library/Preferences/Eve Preferences and changing the "Fullscreen" parameter to 0. You can always switch back to fullscreen if you want with Cmd + Return. Also, if you have other programs active, remember that Cmd + Tab will switch to those programs (and thus to your desktop) even if Eve is in Fullscreen (unfortunately this will not help with some crashes; for this reason and a few others I always run in windowed mode).

It's disappointing to see so many people having trouble with the Mac client and I'm a little confused as to why it affects some more than others. For me personally the biggest problems have been keyboard related, and really haven't been that debilitating at that...the only language I read that has a couple special characters is German anyway.

Loghen
Posted - 2007.12.01 13:11:00 - [11]
 

I'm having all the same issues Beata is having.

The patch improved stability: went from crashing every 2 minutes to crashing every 20. I suspect the reason is both Beata and me (and probably many others that are having problems) is we are on a MacBook. The MacBook and the Mini are not officially supported. So sorry Beata, you (and me) should first get a MacBookPro.

I myself will most probably just keep playing other games.

However here some more notes someone could find usefull:

-) trackpad scrolling / cut&paste with OsX / KB mapping / Unicode characters
They just do not work. Not even on supported macs. Developers should really look into these. Also ingame cut&paste uses ctrl-c/ctrl-v instead of the standard cmd-c/cmd-v.

-) windowed mode
I suspect it does not work because the minimum required Eve resolution is too big to fit a window on the screen if we account for the window frame and the menu bar real estate. It should work on the supported Macs as they have more pixels on the screen.

-) switching out / killing Eve
Optiont-Tab does switch out (to another app). However if you switch out and try to quit Eve, that does not work. You need to switch back in and esc/quit.
Option-cmd-esc switches out AND brings up the panel for killing running applications. Killing Eve from that forces-quit Eve. This does work.
However both of the above do work only while Eve is running correctly, not when it locks up (actually: sometimes it does work on a frozen Eve, but not always).
I noticed that most of the times (not all the times) Eve lockups are not instantaneous. There are tale telling signs that it is about to freeze some seconds before it actually does. Pay vare to the music: if it starts looping it's about to lock up. If you see badly corrupted graphics or if a panel does not open when it should, it's probably about to lock up.
If you manage to recognize these signs and immediatelly Option-tab or Option-cmd-esc, your chances of actually switching out and being able to kill Eve without rebooting will increase a lot (like reboot becomes necessary only once every 4 or 5 lockups).
As for the developers ... they should fix the fact that command-q (or the menu bar quit command) does not quit Eve.

-) performance
Performance is low in the OsX client. On a supported machine, using bootcamp and running Eve under XP will give you better performance. This is due to the cedega translation layer. This needs not be like that. Cedega is known for not being the best API translation layer available. But it's the one they decided to use for the official client.

-) MacBook and MacMini are not supported
More exactly the Intel graphic chips is not supported: officially only discrete ATI and NVidia chips are.
Note that this is not a performance problem. The chip is capable of doing what is required. Some people would say that it only have 64Mb of memory and 128 is needed, but this is wrong: the chip uses shared memory. It reserves 64Mb at boot (allocating much less than that, in fact). But it can dynamically allocate much more than the required 128Mb.
In this thread Lingorm says they do not support this chip because of "driver and compatibility" (and that in a sense confirms that the problem is in the software and not in the hardware). This is the first time I hear of a driver problem with the Intel chip, there have been known problems with Mac graphics drivers (both Ati and NVidia) in the past. And there are known graphics hardware problems on some ATI based Apple machines. But we have to trust the developers on this and hope they find a way to actually support our uber-popular MacBooks/Minis.

Andrea



 

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