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petergriffen
Amarr
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.28 21:40:00 - [61]
 

Originally by: Tareen Kashaar
Originally by: CCP Explorer
There is a really good reason for requiring SM 3 for the new Premium Graphics Content in EVE Online: Trinity. We use very complicated shaders in the new art content with much more instructions than SM 2 supports.


Tongue-in-cheek , but... There's this thing called optimization, ever heard of it? Twisted Evil


Yes, optimization to SM2 is called SM3. They upgraded, you should too!

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.29 08:35:00 - [62]
 

Sorry guys(the SM2 fanboys) but even though I am trying to be sympathetic I still don't get it ?Shocked

CCP has stated they will maintain 2 versions for us, SM2 and SM3(and by next year we will have 3 versions if you include DX10) , this way no one will be inconvenienced, you can use SM2 so what's the problem ?Shocked

Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.11.29 08:52:00 - [63]
 

Lets put it this way... SM2 is included in the classic engine! (no it isn't but you'll be able to run it anyway.) Now stop whining...

M1AU
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:21:00 - [64]
 

Originally by: petergriffen
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08
A64 x2 3800
3gb ram
x800xl

this is not low end dude

ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware


That's pretty low end for a gaming machine, to be honest

to the others wishing for SM2 -

Upgrade your computer. If you don't want to, then use the classic graphics. If you don't want to...

...can I have your stuff?


My computer is up to date and my graphics card supports SM 3.0.
Unfortunately the "supported" wrapper client does not, well guess they already working on that...
Even though SM 2.0 would reach much more customers ... in my opinion.

Vergil 577
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:27:00 - [65]
 

For all those people complaining I'd just like to clarify the old graphics engine is still available the old graphics engine does not affect your game play (Other than fps differences). For those complaining about the Trinity graphics not being SM2.0 compatible it's because your graphics card is simply unable to process the data required it's a hardware limitation not the fault of CCP. And for an SM 3.0 graphics card you could try a 6600GT if you have DX 9.0 it has software support for SM 3.0 which just so happens to be what I'm using currently. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone but this is a physical limitation of your hardware.

ChimeraRouge
Caldari
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:28:00 - [66]
 

/signed

SM2.0 only please

Dristra
Amarr
Idle Haven
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:38:00 - [67]
 

Originally by: Juha85
Originally by: DMF KingBob
may should delete the trininty Trailer from my desktop to stop thinking about

and keep watching by the Revelation 2 Trailer

or does CCP make an Trinity Classic Trailer for me and the other non-SM3 Dx9 Grafikcard users ?


So because your graphic card is from the stone age every other Eve-player should suffer from this and not get upgraded graphics?

Well said.

Matrix Aran
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:40:00 - [68]
 

At this stage it's far to late to ask for SM2 support. The engine has been coded and in development for the past year, let alone the fact the moddels were designed to use SM3 (Normal Maping, Bloom, HDR, etc..). Anyone still using an AGP motherboard can visit thier local PC graveyard and easily salvage a 6800 series GeForce card which will allow you to experience SM3 at the lovely 10 frames a second you insist on enjoying. Should you feel this isn't fast enough for 350 you can build a new PC with a PCI-E slot and access to far better cards for the next three years. For anyone whom does not want to spend money on a new computer, trinity classic is still avalible and will probably be the client of choice for PVPers for years to come.

Vergil 577
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.29 09:43:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Matrix Aran
Anyone still using an AGP motherboard can visit thier local PC graveyard and easily salvage a 6800 series GeForce card which will allow you to experience SM3 at the lovely 10 frames a second you insist on enjoying

Actually my 6600GT 128MB GDDR3 AGP 8x doesn't seem to run that slow as long as I don't do something stupid like turn bloom rendering on, mind you this graphics card is an ancient build of graphics card with the 7 and 8 series already out.

Nye Jaran
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:07:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: ChimeraRouge
/signed

SM2.0 only please


Blow that! There's no reason I should get nice shiny graphics because your graphics card can't support it. Just run low settings / don't snag the new textures and you'll be all good. I'll run max settings with every option turned on with the new textures and I'll be all good.

Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:57:00 - [71]
 

CCP have every right (nay an obligation) to develop their graphics engine using industry standard technologies, and this means that the SM3 requirement for the new models is perfectly justifiable.

For the record, I run on an old Radeon 9800.

It would have been nice to see a hardware survey done to see how many of their customers really would benefit from this. Trinity has long been touted as the best thing to happen to eve in a long while, and I find the lack of an early announcement that those who have not yet switched onto a PCI-E based system with the relevant generation of graphics card would see no benefit of it. Hell, even using classic content I've lost a good 10-15 FPS on average and experience frequent loss of textures and slow texture loading times. I can only dread how this will affect combat...

In short, I feel the release of this engine has been done in a disingenuous manner, but I will not sign for SM2 only. I'd love to see some graphical upgrades for us low end users (new textures please?) but CCP should use whatever technologies at their disposal they can to get the best performance and aesthetics out of their content.

I digress though. I know I for one lost interest in eve a while back, and was holding off to see what Trinity would be like; too see if a graphical upgrade could pique my interest in the game again. From what I've seen, my subscription will not be renewed. For those of you who will doutbless ask, my stuff stays with me: I will be back when I can justify the outlay to replace my entire rig to play a single game.

To summarise, the users should have been surveyed on their hardware to see just how much of the community would be left "hanging" with this change, and it would be nice to see some graphical update for lower end machines - even if it's just improved texturing, which certainly would not require SM3...

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.11.29 10:58:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: St'oto
go buy a Nvidia Geforce 7900 GT it runs the new graphics engine + the models like a dream. Plus its not that expensive. I love this card even tho this christmas im upgrading to a 8800 GT


My advice is to get an x1900GT/x1950GT since they are faster/cheaper than the 7900GT Wink

Arana Tellen
Gallente
Clan Death Corps
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:01:00 - [73]
 

Edited by: Arana Tellen on 29/11/2007 11:15:35
Originally by: Cedric Diggory
CCP have every right (nay an obligation) to develop their graphics engine using industry standard technologies, and this means that the SM3 requirement for the new models is perfectly justifiable.

For the record, I run on an old Radeon 9800.

It would have been nice to see a hardware survey done to see how many of their customers really would benefit from this. Trinity has long been touted as the best thing to happen to eve in a long while, and I find the lack of an early announcement that those who have not yet switched onto a PCI-E based system with the relevant generation of graphics card would see no benefit of it. Hell, even using classic content I've lost a good 10-15 FPS on average and experience frequent loss of textures and slow texture loading times. I can only dread how this will affect combat...

In short, I feel the release of this engine has been done in a disingenuous manner, but I will not sign for SM2 only. I'd love to see some graphical upgrades for us low end users (new textures please?) but CCP should use whatever technologies at their disposal they can to get the best performance and aesthetics out of their content.

I digress though. I know I for one lost interest in eve a while back, and was holding off to see what Trinity would be like; too see if a graphical upgrade could pique my interest in the game again. From what I've seen, my subscription will not be renewed. For those of you who will doutbless ask, my stuff stays with me: I will be back when I can justify the outlay to replace my entire rig to play a single game.

To summarise, the users should have been surveyed on their hardware to see just how much of the community would be left "hanging" with this change, and it would be nice to see some graphical update for lower end machines - even if it's just improved texturing, which certainly would not require SM3...


The shaders are too long for SM2 so unless you want them to waste a couple of years of coding time on an obsolete set of graphics cards that in a year or two will hardly be around, well........

P.S. Half decent SM3 AGP cards exist Wink

Maliber
TALON'S GRIP
Green Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:13:00 - [74]
 

Edited by: Maliber on 29/11/2007 11:15:03
pfff go buy a new card or go cry somewhere else. CCP has done a nice job with the new graphics and im sorry they didnt specificly tailer everything just for you. I mean if you can afford to play the game you can afford a older sm 3.0 compatible card.

p.s.
you can alway grind the isk for 2 gametimecards and save you subscibtion money and buy a card from that.

Beowulf Scheafer
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:14:00 - [75]
 

Originally by: DMF KingBob
no not every
for bio shock exist a shader fix for SM2
Supreme Commander shows me a good Grafik
Call of Duty 4 too
Unreal Tournament 3 too
TES4 Oblivion too
Prey too
Crysis too!!!(yes i know the framerate is not the best)



yes, but eve doesn't :-P

sux to be you, eh? Embarassed


Jimbob McKracken
Caldari
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:27:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: Jimbob McKracken on 29/11/2007 11:30:39
EBAY is your friend, seriously guys. Maybe if you had gone for cards with decent SM support, all those years ago, instead of the highest numbers in 3D Mark you might be able to run the new Trinity client.

One of my friends recently picked up a 7600GT for around 40, sure its not cutting edge but you'd be able to run Trinity at 1024 x 768. If you want something more "high end" there are 7900GT from around 50 - 80.

It's not a huge amount of money, especially with christmas near, and more to the point EvE is nearly 10 years old and its hardware requirements have hardly changed. CCP wanted something that would look good in 5 years time, supporting SM2 would be such a monumentally stupid move, how can an engine be futureproofed if its designed to run on cards from 5 years ago, cards like the ATI X8 series. At least if your running an Nvidia 6 series you can smile right now.

I whole heartedly appove of the SM3 engine and would quit EvE if they spend development time on their "new" engine to incorporate support for computers too old to run the fancy graphics in the first place.

PC's have never been cheaper - Upgrade or play classic.

EDIT - At least CCP are maintaining the old client there are companies that would have just abandoned the old client.

Reiisha
Veto Corp
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:29:00 - [77]
 

Originally by: DMF KingBob
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08
A64 x2 3800
3gb ram
x800xl

this is not low end dude

ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware


They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level.

First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be *new*, not old. Trinity are the *high* settings in the game, which require sm3.0.

Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words.

You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new.

If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution.

Cedric Diggory
Perfunctory Oleaginous Laocoon Mugwumps
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:44:00 - [78]
 

Quote:
pfff go buy a new card or go cry somewhere else. CCP has done a nice job with the new graphics and im sorry they didnt specificly tailer everything just for you. I mean if you can afford to play the game you can afford a older sm 3.0 compatible card.



I work as an IT admin, and as such can create a "hardware failure" at the office that will enable me to get an SM3 compatible AGP card for my home rig. However, to be able to do anything more than look at the new engine struggling away at 10-15fps, I will require to replace my entire rig - it's certainly getting a little long in the tooth now, but from a personal perspective I can't justify the outlay of a new PSU/Motherboard/CPU/Memory/Graphics for a single game. The simple fact is that with the introduction of the Premium content and no change to the Classic content, there now exists a bigger gulf between graphical quality in Eve than in any other game I know.

It's for this reason alone that I post here. I simply wish that we users had been surveyed and/or been told in no uncertain terms that the time is now, start planning that new rig. It's not a whine, it's a lament!

Kina Putten
Amarr
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:49:00 - [79]
 

Just use the old gfx, it's faster and there are no bugs.

All we got from this new gfx is louse performance and nothing else, alltho we were promised better performance with this new stuff.

Fact is, they added new shiney stuff for kids to look at and yammer about, but none of this will change gameplay. And TBFH it's not all that great anyways.

Esmenet
Gallente
Posted - 2007.11.29 11:58:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Cedric Diggory

I work as an IT admin, and as such can create a "hardware failure" at the office that will enable me to get an SM3 compatible AGP card for my home rig. However, to be able to do anything more than look at the new engine struggling away at 10-15fps, I will require to replace my entire rig - it's certainly getting a little long in the tooth now, but from a personal perspective I can't justify the outlay of a new PSU/Motherboard/CPU/Memory/Graphics for a single game. The simple fact is that with the introduction of the Premium content and no change to the Classic content, there now exists a bigger gulf between graphical quality in Eve than in any other game I know.

It's for this reason alone that I post here. I simply wish that we users had been surveyed and/or been told in no uncertain terms that the time is now, start planning that new rig. It's not a whine, it's a lament!


It does not in any way make sense for ccp to make a new engine if they base it on outdated technology. The old engine will still be supported so what is the problem?


Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:00:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Kina Putten
Just use the old gfx, it's faster and there are no bugs.

All we got from this new gfx is louse performance and nothing else, alltho we were promised better performance with this new stuff.

Fact is, they added new shiney stuff for kids to look at and yammer about, but none of this will change gameplay. And TBFH it's not all that great anyways.
Try turning everything off (shadows to none, AA off, HDR off) And tell me again how the performance has decreased...

Off course, running everything with the fancy stuff on high settings requires a hell of a machine (one that currently doesn't exist, even the latest 8xxx series from nVida get single digits FPS on extreme settings Rolling Eyes)

Coeleth
Team JAVELIN
Tread Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:06:00 - [82]
 

The dx8 graphics work fine on SiSi right now :)

Meanwhile, you can buy an agp SM3.0 nvidia or ati card for nothing. In fact, the absolute best agp nvidia card you can get, which is, I believe, the 7950GT, only costs about 135 and I'm sure it'll run trinity just fine.

My 6600LE just ran trinity just fine in a fleet fight on Sisi with HDR turned on, so what's the panic people?

DMF KingBob
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:18:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08
A64 x2 3800
3gb ram
x800xl

this is not low end dude

ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware


They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level.

First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be *new*, not old. Trinity are the *high* settings in the game, which require sm3.0.

Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words.

You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new.

If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution.


1. i know what the Shadermodels from my gpu means

2. Crysis shows me Bumpmaping/Shadows/better Textures/Higher Polygonmodels or thinking about X3 Reunion that shows me the same good Grafik an thats all on my very very very old stone age low end Powerfull Dx9b Grafikcard

3.never say someone that he has to kill himself just while he has an other meaning like yours this is absolutly respectless

then you can see in other parts of the world say the rich amarican-guy(maybe you) to the poor islam guy the same and the islam guy do this with fullness of his proud
and then you can see bodyparts and blood in TV but maybe you like this it just TV and not for your house or in your town allright?

but maybe are u not Intelligent enough or your brain is simply too small but Apes has small brains too and are Intelligent Animals....

and please dont post your omg-i-am-so-rich-other-meanings-dont-interest-me-you-can-kill-your-self-spam here k?

MOS DEF
0utbreak
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:19:00 - [84]
 

This is an outrage! I want support for my 3dfx voodoo !!

DMF KingBob
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:23:00 - [85]
 

Originally by: MOS DEF
This is an outrage! I want support for my 3dfx voodoo !!



lol
then make your own thread call it "texture resolution over 64x64 sucks"

Sleepkevert
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:23:00 - [86]
 

Edited by: Sleepkevert on 29/11/2007 12:24:37
First of all, generalization is bad mkay? And so is insulting other races... Forum ban might be appropriate here...
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Originally by: Reiisha
Originally by: DMF KingBob
Edited by: DMF KingBob on 28/11/2007 17:19:08
A64 x2 3800
3gb ram
x800xl

this is not low end dude

ccp should have a user stat of the users hardware


They have, and decided that people don't need new hardware to keep playing the game. You can still play the game, albeit at a dx8 level.

First, your card is 3 years old now. Trinity has been made to be *new*, not old. Trinity are the *high* settings in the game, which require sm3.0.

Your card is not compliant with dx9.0c, it is only compatible. Note the difference between those words.

You cannot enable all effects in Crysis, you can't go beyond low settings in that game. It's the same in EVE, you can't go beyond low settings, ie the old engine. The new engine are the high settings, for newer cards. Your card isn't new.

If you still aren't getting this, please kill yourself, as you are a danger to our evolution.



2. Crysis shows me Bumpmaping/Shadows/better Textures/Higher Polygonmodels or thinking about X3 Reunion that shows me the same good Grafik an thats all on my very very very old stone age low end Powerfull Dx9b Grafikcard

Then go back to playing crysis, no-one is forcing you to play EVE? Damn you still don't get this do you? Do you expect to be able to run EVE on HIGH settings or not? You won't be able to run it on HIGH with that card, just like you CAN'T run Crysis on HIGH with that card...

Originally by: DMF KingBob
and please dont post your omg-i-am-so-rich-other-meanings-dont-interest-me-you-can-kill-your-self-spam here k?
He never said he had a graphics card that can run it? For all you know, he has the same graphics card you have, BUT atleast he understands that the new EVE engine is made for SM3, not 2....


Also, while you'r at it, learn how to spell "graphics card"....

DMF KingBob
Posted - 2007.11.29 12:45:00 - [87]
 

back 2 topic please

this means dont post if u have no problem with only SM3.0 too

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:10:00 - [88]
 

Originally by: DMF KingBob
this means dont post if u have no problem with only SM3.0 too

1. A petition only thread, without allowing debate is against forum rules
2. A petition where you ask those who are in disagreement with you to NOT post or contribute is also a no noRolling Eyes and removes any credibility that your thread had.
3. SM2 will be in Trinity but you don't seem to want to understand that factugh

SM2 ONLY in Trinity /NOT signed
SM3 ONLY in Trinity /NOT signed
SM2 and SM3 in Trinity , no need to petition as that is how it will beYARRRR!!

Bimjo
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:12:00 - [89]
 

Edited by: Bimjo on 29/11/2007 13:12:46
And SM2 with new shiny graphics will NOT happen as they needed the extra instructions and features SM 3.0 gave CCP programmers

check it out for yourself here

Tintifish
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.29 13:32:00 - [90]
 

Im running Trinity Premium on a 6800GS (PCI-E) and getting higher performance than with the current engine (50 fps from 25-30), and even after putting shadows at medium/high and bloom at medium/high, im still getting 30 fps, this is alsmot the bottom of the cards that will run it (bar the 6600) and it was bought 2 years ago for 120.
This means everyone complaining is running on systems that must have been bought at least 3 years ago, and tbh i dont see you have a reason to complain you cant run what is basically a new game.


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