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CCP kieron

Posted - 2007.11.17 08:56:00 - [1]
 

The release of EVE: Trinity is just around the corner and we are still cramming as much content into it as possible. The new graphics are truly stunning, and that is only a part of the release.

Chronotis has been working on the Invention system for a while and written a new Dev Blog with information on some changes coming in Trinity. There are also a couple "Top Ten" lists from the Invention sector.

To read more, check out More Changes with Invention in Trinity. If you are into invention, you'll be glad you did.

Tubiger
Shade.
Posted - 2007.11.17 08:59:00 - [2]
 

First? Neat :-) Wish I was an inventor.

Serrano Balthar
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.11.17 09:19:00 - [3]
 

thanks !

Morkus Rex
Solar Spice and Liquors Company
Posted - 2007.11.17 09:31:00 - [4]
 

Great news that Invention is getting a little love... about time too Smile

Brigitte Helm
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.11.17 09:44:00 - [5]
 

I just wish the initial skill costs were lower. They prevent smaller corps from investing the time and effort into invention

Juha85
Free Lapland
The Kadeshi
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:09:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Brigitte Helm
I just wish the initial skill costs were lower. They prevent smaller corps from investing the time and effort into invention


If you cant squeeze out the 100-200mil for the encryption skillbook you shouldn't be inventing in the first place

Brigitte Helm
Minmatar
Native Freshfood
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:19:00 - [7]
 

Originally by: Juha85
Originally by: Brigitte Helm
I just wish the initial skill costs were lower. They prevent smaller corps from investing the time and effort into invention


If you cant squeeze out the 100-200mil for the encryption skillbook you shouldn't be inventing in the first place


I appologies Juha85, last time I checked the encryption skillbooks were 500mil each. Seems to have dropped in price, dont know why... ignore me I am mad

Evecrap
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:27:00 - [8]
 


Once again it is up to the Eve community to investigate the NEW probability modifier of the decryptors... (not totally a bad thing mind you)

Most likely the best chance decryptors will still improve invention success the most...

LOL... the chaos and grief this is going to cause to inventors it the above is FALSE...


Stahanov Iv
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:27:00 - [9]
 

I still dont see any Value info about changing Decriptors sourse .....

Scimon Tinker
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:40:00 - [10]
 

Edited by: Scimon Tinker on 17/11/2007 10:43:00
hey hey

IF you know who's results from SISI are correct there still seems to be an inbalance between the decryptors.

e.g. Assembly Instructions got a HUGE boost and is alot overpowered in comparrison.

with the invention of the frigates being probability increased i still wouldnt choose to invent one. The ME values **cough** Draftsmans** on the resulting BPC will still come out at -1/-1 for the best ME decryptor. The cost to invent plus the cost to build even if your successfull on the first try isnt a viable option as the TII frigate market is at a price level that these costs are already exceeding the market value.

The NEW EAS will be ok as it will be 100% price driven by invention

A small(ish) question(s). Will the BPC output runs for ships be increased or is it still going to stay at its current base level(1) ?

**cough** Draftsmans **cough**

With the Decryptors being removed from the static COSMOS complexs is there any plans for which decryptors being specifically spawned in specific sec ? I ask this mainly because Decryptors have very specific uses and Im often confused to why Assembly instructions/Circuitry Schematics are Tvink and the others in Traun.

Assembly Instructions is clearly the bigest and most powerfully Decryptor
Circuitry Schematics has the worst success rate and becomes a huge factor in considering failure costs (fully aware of the max run thing) So IMVHO isnt a great decryptor. However if the success modifier is increased **Cough** Draftsmans**Cough** then i might reconsider it
Advanced Theories Is almost the perfect Decryptor to uyse with very high availability but it dropped from the easier Complex. This is almost always my Decryptor of choice as the balance of Success/Runs/ME is in the sweet spot (for me)
Calibration Data has the nice ME/PE increase so looks to be good for lowering the bigger build projects costs.

Etc . .

As Decryptors have specific purposes do you guy (CCP) have a tiered system to the decryptors (generally listed by success order) and to where they will be "balanced" in the Risk V Reward debate. **cough**Draftsmans**cough**

e.g. Will Assembly Instructions be spawning only in 0.0 (Highest Success) and Cirsuitry Schematics be seeded in .5+ (lowest success)

Also will it be racially spawned ?

With this move to exploration (which is a good thing tbh) it makes invention more of a full time profession but could hurt supply to the market. Could i also confirm that Decryptors should drop from Radar sites as they are "Codebreaker Site" ?

Sorry for the long post.
Mikal Drey
PS. I got a bit of a cold this morning so please excuse all the snot and splutter :/



Helison
Gallente
Times of Ancar
Posted - 2007.11.17 10:44:00 - [11]
 

Thanks for the Devblog, but I would have expected a bit more about it.

Decryptors: How about you give us any numbers on them? Invention is a business and not Las Vegas. We have to calculate which decryptors we shall use.

Ship invention: Can you tell us how much the chances have been boosted? Will the chances for Exhumers invention remain the same?
Why do you think BS invention should have a lesser chance, but use much more datacores etc.?

What about chances for mechanical engineering datacores?

What about jump freighter invention?

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:19:00 - [12]
 

The costs involved in the process in an increasingly competitive market, especially one where it is only inventors competing for a slice of the cake will lead to a more dynamic scenario

Shall we read into this that Tech II BPO's are on the way out with the release of Trinity? I might stop chasing those elusive Conflagration M BPO's!!!

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:29:00 - [13]
 

Seconded. For the original decryptors, everyone knew the exact effects of each from the values associated with them in the data dump. If this information is to be made publicly available, it might as well be listed on the decryptors themselves; as it stands, it's just yet another poorly documented feature.

Are we going to get the equivalent data again in a future data dump?

If not, we're going to need to do rather a lot of extremely arduous testing before we can get an idea of how much the rebalanced decryptors are worth:
  • 1 test for each of the rebalanced classes of decryptors (with modules, whose base chance remains unchanged)
  • Test cruisers
  • Test frigates
  • Test destroyers
  • Test to see what happens with modules + meta level 4 items + new improved chance decryptors - will we hit the 100% success ceiling?
  • Test freighters - these represent an insane gamble at the moment to anyone trying to produce them (except for personal/corp use). We've heard rumours of a really high base success chance, but as it takes almost a month to produce a BPC, I doubt anyone has yet done a freighter invention job on the test server. Shorter copy time on the test server, please?



Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:40:00 - [14]
 

Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro

Are we going to get the equivalent data again in a future data dump?

If not, we're going to need to do rather a lot of extremely arduous testing before we can get an idea of how much the rebalanced decryptors are worth:

[... lots of tests ...]



And don't forget that these test results will only be useful until the next inevitable round of balancing (that might or might not be announced).

Arithron
Gallente
Gallente Trade Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:48:00 - [15]
 

Decryptors needing testing before their effects are known....sounds like invention to me!

Any idea what is going to happen to Tech II BPO's then....long run BPC?

Shadowsword
The Rough Riders
Ares Protectiva
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:52:00 - [16]
 

Quote:

Ship Invention boosted in Trinity

The chance of inventing Tech II frigate, destroyer and cruiser class ships has been increased. The reason for this is we feel inventing the smaller class ships should be easier than the larger ships which are inherently more complex in design. This also impacts other decisions such as which decryptor to use, which leads onto the second change.



Are the base succes chances improved for command ship invention, too?


About giving hard numbers, I know you guys at CCP like us to find out, but that's not how it works. How it works is that the first ones to invent generally lose billions, until they have the right answers, then the lazy ones just read out how to do optimal invention when the results are shared on the forums, and profit without taking much risks.

So, how about you just give us the numbers, pretty please? Wink

Goberth Ludwig
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.17 11:53:00 - [17]
 

Why not just npc seed all t2 items on market btw? make it 1,5 mil for module, 5 mil for t2 frigs and 50 mil for t2 cruisers.

CCP, its alredy easy to profit from invention with an initial investment of below 1 bil and 1 month of training as shown by the current price of every t2 items. I dont understand the need for a further buff unless constantly giving in to the whiners is a good reason. And yes I'm an inventor thats how I am making all my isk atm.

- Gob

Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
Posted - 2007.11.17 12:05:00 - [18]
 

Originally by: Shadowsword
How it works is that the first ones to invent generally lose billions, until they have the right answers, then the lazy ones just read out how to do optimal invention when the results are shared on the forums, and profit without taking much risks.

So, how about you just give us the numbers, pretty please? Wink


This is why we have the test server Razz

Tara'Quoya Rax
Black-Sun
Posted - 2007.11.17 12:15:00 - [19]
 

I wonder if this increased saturation of T2 is a precursor to T3... Smile

Ogul
Caldari
ZiTek Deepspace Explorations
United Front Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.17 12:45:00 - [20]
 

Originally by: Goberth Ludwig
Why not just npc seed all t2 items on market btw? make it 1,5 mil for module, 5 mil for t2 frigs and 50 mil for t2 cruisers.



A lot of T2 modules are a lot cheaper than that (and being produced by filthy BPO owners, inventing them isn't profitable).

Ricdic's Hoe
Posted - 2007.11.17 13:08:00 - [21]
 

Can you guys please check out the production time on t2 ammo bpos. I can't speak for non missiles, but as an example with T2 torpedo bpo's I can build a max of 5,000 per day. This constitutes around 3m in sales (or 50-100k in profit) not to mention that a single mission runner can utilise all of them.

When compared to another form of weaponry like drones, where I can build 50 heavy drones in one day in comparison, it shows a massive difference between the two (50 drones will last longer than 5000 torps)

Tek'a Rain
Gallente
Collegium Mechanicae
Posted - 2007.11.17 14:07:00 - [22]
 

Originally by: Ricdic's Hoe
When compared to another form of weaponry like drones, where I can build 50 heavy drones in one day in comparison, it shows a massive difference between the two (50 drones will last longer than 5000 torps)


dont worry, with a few more rounds of drone nerfs, drone users will be going through those 50 drones plenty fast.

AZON21AUG
Posted - 2007.11.17 15:00:00 - [23]
 

Yet another useless blog without the numbers to back up the info. Carrot anyone?

Give us the information we need to know to make intelligent decisions about our businesses, and stop keeping it only available to the Devs.

Ol' Delsai
Caldari
Kernel of War
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.17 15:32:00 - [24]
 

Originally by: AZON21AUG

Give us the information we need to know to make intelligent decisions about our businesses, and stop keeping it only available to the Devs.


Ouch, businesses ??? Are we talking about the same thing, a GAME ?? you know the kind of thing you play to entertain yourself...

well, IMHO, it's part of the game to try and find the effects of somme odd components found in some hidden pirate facilities that has been named "decryptors"
It's also part of the game to have a game of invention to produce Tech 2 ships and modules... that would not be funny to have them all in the market as is at a fixed a price (and there will bee much much less player in EVE it that was the cased)

So please, all of you, think and take some distance before biting


Quutar
Ars ex Discordia
Posted - 2007.11.17 16:02:00 - [25]
 

will it be possible to see the percents in the job quote before starting the invention job?

"We predict a 37.2% chance of success"

just so we can make more informed choice?

Sin Anger
Posted - 2007.11.17 16:09:00 - [26]
 

Originally by: Quutar
will it be possible to see the percents in the job quote before starting the invention job?

"We predict a 37.2% chance of success"

just so we can make more informed choice?


/signed

Goberth Ludwig
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.17 16:10:00 - [27]
 

Originally by: Quutar
will it be possible to see the percents in the job quote before starting the invention job?

"We predict a 37.2% chance of success"

just so we can make more informed choice?


If by informed choice you mean chosing the decryptor then you dont need to know the final % to make the call.

- Gob

Gamer4liff
Caldari
Metalworks
Majesta Empire
Posted - 2007.11.17 16:13:00 - [28]
 

Originally by: Arithron
Decryptors needing testing before their effects are known....sounds like invention to me!

Any idea what is going to happen to Tech II BPO's then....long run BPC?


T2 BPOS will remain as they always have, when they say "competing for a slice of the pie" they mean the market for the new ships/modules that do not have T2 BPOS.

DHU InMe
Gallente
Corsairs Inc.
The Spire Collective
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:09:00 - [29]
 

Where are the complete formula for an invention ?

success rate and ME with:
-skills
-Decryptors
-t1, named module


Lightof God
Caldari
Reikoku
IT Alliance
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:17:00 - [30]
 

I think you guys are trying to make t2 prices at market as low as you have them on the ships and modules page of your site.
good, more pvp for me :)

On another note, I DEMAND GRAPHS OF YOUR PREDICTIONS.

you are massivly changing supply and I wanna know how that will effect Qd.


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