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Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2007.11.17 16:54:00 - [61]
 

Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:55:35
Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:54:53
Originally by: Gamesguy


Most people supply their own equipment in jita, with hauler alts that move them down to lowsec and carriers that jump them up into 0.0.

You provide no service that 0.0ers cant handle themselves in far greater volume. So why shouldn't they kill you?


I make my isk off of slothful, lazy, overworked and rich people, or various combinations thereof. They are far too lazy or busy to be bothered to fly to Jita, so they pay me.

I fully realize they haul to carrier jump points. Thats why I stock certain nearby systems with goods. Often the prices aren't that much worse than Jita, and are well worth it for people to buy there rather than making the long haul. I think the trip to Jita is much easier for your alliance however, as there are Forge carrier jump points right near Jita that you have access too. Most other Alliances don't have that luxury.

As far as the haulers being killed, I am not referring to the hauls to drop points, those are targets as everyone who has hauled to them knows. I am referring to organized piracy much deeper within empire that affects whole regions that is sponsored by major alliances, not just the lowsec ganks near drop points which are expected, and if you scout at all, can prevent. You should care, it affects your supply alts the most. Some of what I believe is happening is that they look at what you are hauling and where you are hauling it first until they ID your alt by scanning you a few times. Sometimes the scan ships are lined up 2 or 3 at a gate on major trade routes. Then they turn your name over to pirates to mark red as a "juicy target", so that even if you don't have any cargo, you are still scanned and checked wherever you go. You lose freedom of movement, and are forced to rely on Concord, more scouting, warping to zero more heavily (which sucks if you are using alts).

You do not own this animal, you do not control it, and it can just as easily be turned on you, as anyone else. In that regard, we have a common problem. In the end, all it does is make trade harder, which makes your life more difficult and more expensive. Alliances can make adjustments during a war, and get the supplies they need, ganking haulers makes it harder. The unfortunate part is that that area will take much longer to recover, and may never recover its economic base. Anyway, where do you think all that stuff in Jita comes from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air. People like me build it.

NATMav
Caldari
F.R.E.E. Explorer
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.11.17 17:01:00 - [62]
 

As long as pilots continue to autopilot through empire in slowboating haulers with no tank, there will be pilots who look to profit from their demise.

Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2007.11.17 17:18:00 - [63]
 

Originally by: NATMav
As long as pilots continue to autopilot through empire in slowboating haulers with no tank, there will be pilots who look to profit from their demise.


I tank, I take precautions, and I escape far more often than I get killed. I am not asking for zero risk. I am pointing out that higher risk makes hauling more expensive and difficult, and that by targetting haulers, alliances are not going to be successful in the long run at maintaining their own supply chain. The only result alliances will see is that prices go up and choices go down.

If a major alliance decides you need to die, you will die as a hauler. No hauler can escape a row of 8 Domis lined up at the gate, with good intel, planning and leadership. They will go down.

BuckStrider
Caldari
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2007.11.17 17:22:00 - [64]
 

Dear Re Mi,

Have you ever thought of using T2 haulers?Wink

Your truly,

BuckStrider

Re Mi
Caldari
Funshine Unlimited
Posted - 2007.11.17 17:52:00 - [65]
 

Originally by: BuckStrider
Dear Re Mi,

Have you ever thought of using T2 haulers?Wink

Your truly,

BuckStrider


It doesn't matter what you use to haul, if you bring enough firepower to bear, you are dead (and yes I use T2). Anyone who can knock off a Freighter, can take out a Transport. The problem is that instead of cargo expanders and cargo rigs in an Iteron V, I need to use Armor tank in an Occator to haul the same goods, or use a Viator and fly gate to gate. The volume of what I can haul gets cut in 1/2 (or less), and what I do haul is much more labor intensive. Prices go up as a result in order to pay for that, and the extra risks I take.

Malcanis
Caldari
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:28:00 - [66]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 03:54:11
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon
Originally by: Re Mi
Originally by: Divus
i agree with tha op - but what can we do i ask you?


Good question. What can you do? Be aware that our supplies, are your supply line link to Empire, and it CAN be cut through this kind of warfare. What happens if ships and modules stop flowing at the same time your home systems are being attacked and your services are being knocked off line? What happens if trit and POS fuel stops getting delivered to your doorstep? Empire is a lifeline to any alliance under stress. You kill empire, you kill 0.0. As far as what you can do, keep the major wars in 0.0. Don't make it my problem.


You do understand most large alliances, and even most small ones, are completely self sufficient right?

We only have a few hundred members and empire being 50 jumps away means we have nothing to rely on besides ourselves.


Surely you jest. 0.0 is anything but self sufficient. They have vast piles of isk that goes towards buying huge quantities of empire goods. Empire provides the surge capacity that makes alliances viable when they need to fight a war. If that is true that 0.0 is self sufficient, then who is buying all of my stuff? Its not mission runners. Its not small corps/alliances in empire.


Given that what you say is true, surely you can see that empire haulers are anything but neutral as far as an alliance in 0.0 is concerned.

Cippalippus Primus
Caldari
eXceed Inc.
HYDRA RELOADED
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:46:00 - [67]
 

I can't figure if the op is serious or a troll.
Oh and by the way, no target is small or neutral enough if you are out for some kills Wink

Zataaki
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.17 18:47:00 - [68]
 

Good lord you really are being serious aren't you. See begging people to stop ganking you is one thing but acting like you're of any importance to us is just laffo and was the reason this would have been a great troll.

Let me see if I can explain this clearly.

Nothing you do has any effect on anything meaningful that happens in 0.0. There will always be a place in empire to buy stuff to import. If you and everyone else stopped hauling things from Jita to whatever station out in the boonies it is you go to, and no other pubbie carebears took your place, it still wouldn't matter. This is coming from someone who imports things from Empire to 0.0.

Kaaii
Caldari
Kaaii-Net Research Labs
KAAII-NET
Posted - 2007.11.17 20:01:00 - [69]
 

Originally by: Hrin
I see you are unfamiliar with my corp


right, never under estimate the power of ebay..


Hrin
Minmatar
Merch Industrial
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.17 21:10:00 - [70]
 

Originally by: Kaaii
Originally by: Hrin
I see you are unfamiliar with my corp


right, never under estimate the power of ebay..



You're very dumb

Kortalis Hellion
Gallente
Solarian Order
Posted - 2007.11.17 21:14:00 - [71]
 

Holy **** you can get attacked in EVE?!

BuckStrider
Caldari
Nano-Tech Experiments
Posted - 2007.11.17 21:46:00 - [72]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Originally by: BuckStrider
Dear Re Mi,

Have you ever thought of using T2 haulers?Wink

Your truly,

BuckStrider


It doesn't matter what you use to haul, if you bring enough firepower to bear, you are dead (and yes I use T2). Anyone who can knock off a Freighter, can take out a Transport. The problem is that instead of cargo expanders and cargo rigs in an Iteron V, I need to use Armor tank in an Occator to haul the same goods, or use a Viator and fly gate to gate. The volume of what I can haul gets cut in 1/2 (or less), and what I do haul is much more labor intensive. Prices go up as a result in order to pay for that, and the extra risks I take.


Well, Re Mi...I see 3 options for you and the other 'Carebear Elite'

Option#1... Throw the towel in, quit the game, and gimmie your stuff
Option#2... Stop your crying, "Grow a pair" (or rent a pair), and adapt to the environment by finding ways to defeat or marginalize your situation.
Option#3... Contract a noob corp looking to make some cash to scout out your route.

Your not gaining any sympathy on these boards (as you can very well see)

Tradesman Mcgee
Caldari
Gnomes Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.17 22:59:00 - [73]
 

Why let you fly to "our" 0.0 trade hubs and let you sell your goods there, when we can just as easy pick up (most of) the items from your wreck on a gate for free?
Popping haulers is like christmas eve, you never know whats in them - unless you highsec gank, in which case you cargo scan them, nobody ever do that in lowsec/0.0, you just kill them all for the glory of Derek.

Moon Kitten
Gallente
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.17 23:12:00 - [74]
 

I am willing to set you neutral for a fee. Cool

Necro EvilZombie
Caldari
North Eastern Swat
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.17 23:18:00 - [75]
 

maybe you should change your corp name, that name would most certainly make me want to kill you.

frank frank
Caldari
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
Posted - 2007.11.17 23:31:00 - [76]
 

Edited by: frank frank on 17/11/2007 23:35:44
Ok Re Mi. Will do!

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81437
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81436
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81431
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81435
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81434
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81432
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81401
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81422
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81402
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81421
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81415
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81400
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81399
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81398
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81397
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81396
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81406
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81395
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81394
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81392
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81391
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81420
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81393
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81375
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81390
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81389
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81388
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81387
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81386
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81385
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81384
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/81382


Divus
Minmatar
Black Omega Security
Pandemic Legion
Posted - 2007.11.18 02:38:00 - [77]
 

Edited by: Divus on 18/11/2007 02:40:55
Originally by: Re Mi
Originally by: Divus
i agree with tha op - but what can we do i ask you?


Good question. What can you do? Be aware that our supplies, are your supply line link to Empire, and it CAN be cut through this kind of warfare. What happens if ships and modules stop flowing at the same time your home systems are being attacked and your services are being knocked off line? What happens if trit and POS fuel stops getting delivered to your doorstep? Empire is a lifeline to any alliance under stress. You kill empire, you kill 0.0. As far as what you can do, keep the major wars in 0.0. Don't make it my problem.



there is nothing we can do, because its a game, and it has no laws and no punishment for such actions, therefor deal with it. hats of for flying haulers in low sec anyway, i avoid that werever i can.

also: step away from the idea u 'serve' the alliances, and they kill themself by killing you, its an interesting approach but it's simply not entirely true.

Magicbob
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.18 03:18:00 - [78]
 

:( I lost my hauler to goons. I will cry now.

Magicbob
Caldari
GoonFleet
GoonSwarm
Posted - 2007.11.18 03:19:00 - [79]
 

Originally by: Magicbob
:( I lost my hauler to goons. I will cry now.


It's ok, buddy. We won't shoot neutrals anymore. :shobon:

Tauranon
Gallente
Weeesearch
Posted - 2007.11.18 06:04:00 - [80]
 

Originally by: Re Mi


I make my isk off of slothful, lazy, overworked and rich people, or various combinations thereof. They are far too lazy or busy to be bothered to fly to Jita, so they pay me.




By playing slothfully, with half an eye on the screen, in a weak ship with highly concentrated value, afk piloting or by multi-clienting and not generally paying attention.

Quote:


I fully realize they haul to carrier jump points. Thats why I stock certain nearby systems with goods. Often the prices aren't that much worse than Jita, and are well worth it for people to buy there rather than making the long haul. I think the trip to Jita is much easier for your alliance however, as there are Forge carrier jump points right near Jita that you have access too. Most other Alliances don't have that luxury.



Yes, your only true input to the economy is efficiency. By holding and moving goods for people that can do so less efficiently, you allow them to spend more time producing, which they do more efficiently than you. Which somehow makes them slothful in your estimation...
Quote:


As far as the haulers being killed, I am not referring to the hauls to drop points, those are targets as everyone who has hauled to them knows. I am referring to organized piracy much deeper within empire that affects whole regions that is sponsored by major alliances, not just the lowsec ganks near drop points which are expected, and if you scout at all, can prevent. You should care, it affects your supply alts the most. Some of what I believe is happening is that they look at what you are hauling and where you are hauling it first until they ID your alt by scanning you a few times. Sometimes the scan ships are lined up 2 or 3 at a gate on major trade routes. Then they turn your name over to pirates to mark red as a "juicy target", so that even if you don't have any cargo, you are still scanned and checked wherever you go. You lose freedom of movement, and are forced to rely on Concord, more scouting, warping to zero more heavily (which sucks if you are using alts).



Ganking haulers is a profitable excercise. Why would it need sponsorship? Why wouldn't highsec corps that wanted to kill stuff just do it - particularly when its going to be profitable. If I park my jinmei character in a belt and sit afk in a mining ship - I'm likely to be found/called a chinese macrofarmer and ganked. why should afk/autopilot haulers be given freedoms that aren't given to other pilots ?

Quote:


You do not own this animal, you do not control it, and it can just as easily be turned on you, as anyone else. In that regard, we have a common problem. In the end, all it does is make trade harder, which makes your life more difficult and more expensive. Alliances can make adjustments during a war, and get the supplies they need, ganking haulers makes it harder. The unfortunate part is that that area will take much longer to recover, and may never recover its economic base. Anyway, where do you think all that stuff in Jita comes from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air. People like me build it.


Much of the stuff in jita comes from primary producers who actually kill and mine stuff, and haul it there themselves. If there were less traders/trading, the average price paid for items may actually fall, as the traders margin has to be extracted from the goods in question.

Whether that would produce an overall more efficient economy is unlikely, but it would certainly function effectively without traders.

As far as an 0.0 alliance goes, esp one without a lowsec border, you moving things around in empire is not solving the fundamental logistics issue in getting things to the alliance territory. If they have to solve moving it around in highsec as well, they do.

Big Monkey
Gallente
The Scope
Posted - 2007.11.18 06:12:00 - [81]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Originally by: NATMav
As long as pilots continue to autopilot through empire in slowboating haulers with no tank, there will be pilots who look to profit from their demise.


I tank, I take precautions, and I escape far more often than I get killed. I am not asking for zero risk. I am pointing out that higher risk makes hauling more expensive and difficult, and that by targetting haulers, alliances are not going to be successful in the long run at maintaining their own supply chain. The only result alliances will see is that prices go up and choices go down.

If a major alliance decides you need to die, you will die as a hauler. No hauler can escape a row of 8 Domis lined up at the gate, with good intel, planning and leadership. They will go down.


I maintain that you have no idea of the industrial power behind Goonfleet. Between DS1, Ars Ex Discordia, MRCHI... it's pretty obvious you're ignorant. Also: assuming that blowing up haulers in empire will hurt us in 0.0 is pure lulz.

pandymen
Caldari
4S Corporation
Morsus Mihi
Posted - 2007.11.18 06:54:00 - [82]
 

Edited by: pandymen on 18/11/2007 06:54:10
I think the op misses a very key point. All that hauling...all that trading and supplying he does, is just a drop in the bucket. You claim that the ppl killing you are killing their own market...yet you ignore the fact that they get around half of your loot without paying much of anything. If you are using t1 haulers...they can suicide you in destroyers...lose a mil isk, and just recycle disposable alts once they lose too much standing.

So basically, you just need to learn to use the warp to 0 button and not go afk autopilot. You might have better luck. Edit: You should also consider getting over yourself.


Gamesguy
Amarr
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
Posted - 2007.11.18 08:26:00 - [83]
 

Originally by: Re Mi
Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:55:35
Edited by: Re Mi on 17/11/2007 16:54:53
Originally by: Gamesguy


Most people supply their own equipment in jita, with hauler alts that move them down to lowsec and carriers that jump them up into 0.0.

You provide no service that 0.0ers cant handle themselves in far greater volume. So why shouldn't they kill you?


I make my isk off of slothful, lazy, overworked and rich people, or various combinations thereof. They are far too lazy or busy to be bothered to fly to Jita, so they pay me.

I fully realize they haul to carrier jump points. Thats why I stock certain nearby systems with goods. Often the prices aren't that much worse than Jita, and are well worth it for people to buy there rather than making the long haul. I think the trip to Jita is much easier for your alliance however, as there are Forge carrier jump points right near Jita that you have access too. Most other Alliances don't have that luxury.

As far as the haulers being killed, I am not referring to the hauls to drop points, those are targets as everyone who has hauled to them knows. I am referring to organized piracy much deeper within empire that affects whole regions that is sponsored by major alliances, not just the lowsec ganks near drop points which are expected, and if you scout at all, can prevent. You should care, it affects your supply alts the most. Some of what I believe is happening is that they look at what you are hauling and where you are hauling it first until they ID your alt by scanning you a few times. Sometimes the scan ships are lined up 2 or 3 at a gate on major trade routes. Then they turn your name over to pirates to mark red as a "juicy target", so that even if you don't have any cargo, you are still scanned and checked wherever you go. You lose freedom of movement, and are forced to rely on Concord, more scouting, warping to zero more heavily (which sucks if you are using alts).

You do not own this animal, you do not control it, and it can just as easily be turned on you, as anyone else. In that regard, we have a common problem. In the end, all it does is make trade harder, which makes your life more difficult and more expensive. Alliances can make adjustments during a war, and get the supplies they need, ganking haulers makes it harder. The unfortunate part is that that area will take much longer to recover, and may never recover its economic base. Anyway, where do you think all that stuff in Jita comes from? It doesn't materialize out of thin air. People like me build it.


No it doesnt. If hauler ganking gets so prevelent that idiots like you quit, then the other 90% of the players, who dont get ganked, will simply take up the slack.

You make yourself sound like a vital part of the economy when you're nothing but small potatoes. If the hubs near carrier jump points are depleted due to suicide ganks, then we will simply organized haulers and freighters that buy in bulk from jita and move it down.

I don't think you understand that you have no effect whatsoever. You yourself said that only the lazy buy your goods because its closer(I'm probably one of those people), but we're all perfectly capable of(and do) going to jita and buying it there and then haul it down. And for each one of you that gets ganked, 10 others make it through because they're not afking hauling.Rolling Eyes

Helen
Amarr
ReviveX Fleet
White Noise.
Posted - 2007.11.18 09:34:00 - [84]
 

A+++ Thread would read again. :D

Dahin
Caldari
Maza Nostra
HELL4S
Posted - 2007.11.18 15:07:00 - [85]
 

Edited by: Dahin on 18/11/2007 15:11:37
These are indeed sad times.

Martinigr is crying bitter tears for all the t2 modules lost ganking non-worty targets in empire.

WHY? WHY? Think of those antimatter rounds that were lost in time, like tears in the rain, all for a sub-100mil worth of loot.

waaaait a minute? Is this about arzi and those lowsec sols near rens?
Apparently there are hundreds of bots/slaves jumping in a couple lowsec systems there.
Once I saw a church member sit in a sniping pest and killing one every 30-40 secs. Literally.
The kept coming and coming till my overview was full of hauler wrecks.

I commend the people cleaning that crap up since CCP doesn't have the balls to.

Plutoinum
Minmatar
Mercenaries of Andosia
Veritas Immortalis
Posted - 2007.11.18 19:40:00 - [86]
 

Originally by: Re Mi

Surely you jest. 0.0 is anything but self sufficient. They have vast piles of isk that goes towards buying huge quantities of empire goods. Empire provides the surge capacity that makes alliances viable when they need to fight a war. If that is true that 0.0 is self sufficient, then who is buying all of my stuff? Its not mission runners. Its not small corps/alliances in empire.

Hmm, you have to see it with the eyes of the individuals, who shoot your haulers. I mean, if they let you pass, they don't know, where your stuff goes and if it benefits them in the slightest. Probably it does not.
If they shoot you, some of your stuff goes directly into their pockets for free, so hmm, what do they choose ? Cool

goatplasma
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Posted - 2007.11.19 00:36:00 - [87]
 

Edited by: goatplasma on 19/11/2007 00:37:23
oh dear oh dear

Baaldor
Caldari
Black Sail Anarchists
Yarr Collective
Posted - 2007.11.19 08:20:00 - [88]
 

Oh the wonderful sweet tears....mmm..tasty! MOAR TEARS!! Twisted Evil


Clara Mismer
Minmatar
Gulfonodi Industries
Posted - 2007.11.19 08:29:00 - [89]
 

Originally by: pandymen
Edited by: pandymen on 18/11/2007 06:54:10
I think the op misses a very key point. All that hauling...all that trading and supplying he does, is just a drop in the bucket. You claim that the ppl killing you are killing their own market...yet you ignore the fact that they get around half of your loot without paying much of anything. If you are using t1 haulers...they can suicide you in destroyers...lose a mil isk, and just recycle disposable alts once they lose too much standing.



I believe that was classed as an exploit - you do the crime spend the time to raise sec status.

Redbad
Minmatar
Sebiestor Tribe
Posted - 2007.11.19 09:58:00 - [90]
 

You are just a victim of the Piñata-complex many pirates have.

Protect your Piñata's or have the buyer haul it instead.

RB


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