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blankseplocked ceptor vs electronical attack ship?
 
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Gordon Red
Posted - 2007.11.14 16:44:00 - [1]
 

The electronical attack ships are awesome and will change EVE a lot (I think in the right direction), but they are totally devasting for the ceptor class.

Basicly all what a ceptor does I can also do with an EAS.
Ok, ceptors have a greater sensor strenght, agility and a greater speed as the EAS, but the attributes of the EAS are good enough to do the ceptors job => to tackle.

The ceptor has also the job to kill other ceptors/frigs, but with their specific bonus the EAS are able to do this job also. They don't do it over much guns or a damage bonus. They do it with webbing, dampering, jamming or NOS+drones.

The result is the same and in nearly equally time.
(within a 1vs1 the ceptor can only loose or have to retreat)

- the Hyena and the Keres are especially good in the ceptors job to scout & tackle.
- the Sentinel is superb in killing frigs (no energy => no MWD and the small T2 drones are quickly in killing a frig). Also the Hyena can catch ceptors with his great speed and keep the prey far away+webbed (good against short range ceptors)
- the Kitsune is somewhat differently, because she mainly jamms and that's it.

I don't know how a ceptor should or could be changed so he can compete with the EAS within their traditional role. Even, if the speed and/or sensor strenght of the EAS would be lowered dramatically, I don't see that this would chance much.
More weapons or damage to ceptors is also not the option => AFs are bad enough already...

Greater speed and agility to ceptors could make a change, but other ships will indeed have a greater problem then. Ok, BS still have their heavy neuts anyway, to scare takling ceptors off, but cruiser don't have much of a chance (perhaps not that bad, each ship class should have a special weakness against a specific ship class).

Suggestions?

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.14 17:43:00 - [2]
 

Originally by: Gordon Red
Basicly all what a ceptor does I can also do with an EAS.
Ok, ceptors have a greater sensor strenght, agility and a greater speed as the EAS, but the attributes of the EAS are good enough to do the ceptors job => to tackle.


From my own experience, I can only compare the Stiletto with the Hyena, but:
- Hyena can web from outside web range: Great
- Stiletto can tackle at 28km, outside nos range, outside scram range, outside most ship's weapon ranges
- Stiletto can, with some fiddling, even outrun Warrior IIs. Hyena dies to Warrior Is.
- Stiletto out-tanks a Hyena easily. Yes, this is sometimes rather important. While a Stiletto is paper thin, a Hyena doesn't survive an evil gaze in its direction.
- Hyenas warp sloooooow. Yes, this is important.

As for Hyena in the anti-inty role, it's a great support ship for that, but the dps is so low and as mentioned, they tank really, really badly, so I wouldn't worry much about it. (I think any long-range inty - railranis, beamsader, crow - would kill a Hyena any day; short-range inties will get a problem, though, unless they are really fast.)

I wouldn't be too worried about it yet, and would see how it works out on TQ.

Duhmad IbnRa
Gallente
EvE Dynamo
Posted - 2007.11.14 18:32:00 - [3]
 

Another thing is the sentinel.. This ship is really nasty..
Forget the Kitsune and the Keres, the Sentinel as one ships can basically shut any ship completely down. 4 light ECM Drones and 3 Dampeners will ruin your day, i can promise you that.

I dont know, how it is with maxed skills, but there might be the possiblity that you can permarun the damps and a MWD and possibly one neut as well.
Team it up with a heretic and you got a really mean combo...

Gordon Red
Posted - 2007.11.14 19:02:00 - [4]
 

Originally by: Arkady Sadik

- Stiletto can tackle at 28km, outside nos range, outside scram range, outside most ship's weapon ranges


Not without a skirmish warfare link - interdiction maneuvers and if you use that, the Hyena can also do the same (which is awesome to catch Vagas :P (+ rapid deployment)).

If you have catched a ceptor load precisions. Twisted Evil

Liang Nuren
Posted - 2007.11.14 19:03:00 - [5]
 

IMO, they do not perform the same role at all. I've been making plans for how to field these ships effectively, and none of them are in the "tackler" role.

Liang

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.14 19:33:00 - [6]
 

Originally by: Gordon Red
Not without a skirmish warfare link - interdiction maneuvers and if you use that, the Hyena can also do the same (which is awesome to catch Vagas :P (+ rapid deployment)).


You forgot about the inty changes. On SiSi, the Stiletto (and other tackling inties) can tackle at 30km with interceptor 5, 28.5km at inty 4. Add a skirmish warfare, and you need a sensor booster on the Stiletto for the full range.

Gordon Red
Posted - 2007.11.14 19:42:00 - [7]
 

Edited by: Gordon Red on 14/11/2007 19:53:01
But it is not sure that this will make it on the live server or has CCP already stated that this change will come definitely? (there is not much to find about it)

Arkady Sadik
Minmatar
Electus Matari
Posted - 2007.11.14 20:45:00 - [8]
 

Originally by: Gordon Red
Edited by: Gordon Red on 14/11/2007 19:53:01
But it is not sure that this will make it on the live server or has CCP already stated that this change will come definitely? (there is not much to find about it)


It is pretty certain. But of course, nothing is on TQ until it is on TQ. The same applies to the EAFs. If we want to say anything about how EAFs affect inties, we have to compare how both are on SiSi. Comparing EAFs on SiSi with inties on TQ won't help anyone. Wink

Gordon Red
Posted - 2007.11.14 22:48:00 - [9]
 

I don't compare EAS with ceptors on TQ.

IMHO they can do the job better, if not then the Hyena and Keres are useless, because there are 'already' ships that can do the job better => there would be no point to bring them to the game (mostly the Hyena, if you compare it with the Stiletto).

The Keres works differently as the gallente ceptors and the Sentinel & Kitsune haveing as stated before a completly different role.


 

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